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2012-01-13, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
SoD Spoilers:
SpoilerFor Redcloak's sake, I hope he doesn't try to destroy the phylactery. Otherwise, Xykon's little contingency measure will get him OM NOM NOMed by MITD.Last edited by averagejoe; 2012-01-13 at 11:58 PM.
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2012-01-13, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Maryland
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Redcloak is playing with fire here. He already has all his chips in with Xykon, so he can't really betray him, but can he steer him in the way he wants? It feels like he has the tiger by the tail, and dare not let go.
Avatar by Glasswhistle
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2012-01-13, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
That was actually the first thing I thought of, as well.
SpoilerAssuming that Redcloak even CAN, destroy the phylactery right now ... but even if he can't, beginning the task now gives him time to unravel the enchantments on it, so that he doesn't fail just like O'Chul did if he tries to smash it in a single moment of betrayal.
Really, though, that would seem like the best option for him, if he actually wants to betray Xykon but doesn't want there to be any reprisals against him or the goblin nation. Since Xykon's soul isn't inside it and he's never shown the ability to sense it in any way, destroying it now probably wouldn't alert him (he might have some alarm cast on it that'll alert him, but Redcloak can remove that along with the other spells on it), and this way the plan can go forward without a hitch ... but if, say, the Order manages to get another lucky shot in on Xykon, Redcloak can finally justify moving on to himself.
It's just the kind of sneaky backstabbery that Redcloak would be most willing to do, IMO. I expect to see a "phylactery" handed back to Xykon, maybe one that even looks, to all outward appearances, like the real one, but I won't believe it's the real one 'til it's confirmed somehow.
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2012-01-13, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2012-01-13, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
So why didn't the paladin use Detect Evil on the traitor? That seems short-sighted on his part.
I just get bothered by this common motif of a group of supposedly wise and righteous people getting infiltrated by some evil agent. And then everyone is surprised when the Big Reveal happens.
Have these people never heard of Zone of Truth, Discern Lies or Detect Evil?
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2012-01-13, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Gdynia, Poland
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Traitors never. Ever. Get paid.
Great storytelling.Avatar by Sneak
OotS Quiz Junkie
Spoiler
Oh great Machine God, we beseech thee to deliver us from danger.
Oh great Machine God, we beseech thee to invest this metal carcass with your spirit.
Oh great Machine God, we beseech thee to bring life unto the inanimate.
Oh great Machine God, we beseech thee to summon forth the holy en-Djinn
Incantation of the Mechanicus
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2012-01-13, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Technically he is not a traitor, he is a spy. Even if the paladin called him a traitor.
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2012-01-13, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Your final line makes it very hard to resist asking if you've never heard of Undetectable Alignment. Just so you know.
Anyway. Yeah. Second-level cleric spell, before we get into "are you saying you would expect none of the actual human prisoners to ping as evil?"Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-01-13, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
To me, this strip proved that Redcloak needs to die before the story ends. And no Redemption Equals Death. I want to see Hinjo, O-Chul, and Lien smite him. His death needs to prove, to him, that despite what he thinks, he's completely Evil.
Poor Thahn...
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2012-01-13, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
luc258 has it right. The spy was no traitor. Thanh called him that because he was unaware that the spy was a polymorphed goblinoid instead of a willing human collaborator.
Of all the characters who died in this comic, the spy is the one I feel the most sympathy for. He volunteered for a dangerous mission, was polymorphed into something he hated, did his job and remained loyal to his own side rather than defecting, and his reward was to be used and killed by his own chain of command.
I knew when Redcloak ordered him to assist in killing the humans that Redcloak was hoping the spy would be killed by them. No witnesses and no loose ends.
The sole bright spot for him is that death doesn't mean to them what it does to us . It may be that the dead spy will have officer's rank in the Dark One's army on the Iron Plain. He's certainly earned it.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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2012-01-13, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Virginia
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I have been seeing a lot of phylactery switcharoo theories pop-up, and I was wondering how this could even be possible. I mean, the actual holy symbol is warded so much that it is virtually undetectable. It wouldnt take Xykon more than 2 rounds to realize the thing he was handed is missing a few spells and we can't be sure that Redcloak even knows what all the wards are, right?
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2012-01-13, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Maryland
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder if Xykon might have his own spies among the hobbos to keep tabs on RC and Jirix. And man is it tough to be a mountain in OOTSverse.
"That's not right, that's not even wrong."
"This is not an idea to be tossed aside lightly, it should be thrown with great force."
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2012-01-13, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
That was an awesome performance by all characters involved .
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2012-01-13, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Nebraska
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
That was EPIC, or at least very high level.
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2012-01-13, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I don't know how polymorphing works, since it's never come up in any of my games. I recall in a Drizzt book that death ends the effect though...
I think the Paladins being so easily infiltrateable makes perfect sense. The few savvy members included Shojo and Miko who're dead, and Hinjo who'd largely come to genre awareness through the aforementioned two's actions and by hanging with Elan for a book.
Honor Before Reason is a stupid thing to adhere to, but it seems in character that even the Sapphire resistance clung to that idea. The elves should have considered it though.
RIP Thahn. Your death makes a subplot one thread barer.
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2012-01-13, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- Sort of South East
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
R.I.P. Thahn.
The memory of you and your awesome 'stache shall live on forever in us.
- "Oh Thahny boy, you fin'lly found your ca-a-lling; Defend, defend! What used to be your land!
And though you find, your friends around you fa-a-lling; Whip out your sword, and prepare to make your stand."
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2012-01-13, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- LIC, NY
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2012-01-13, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Elyria, Ohio
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2012-01-13, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
AFAICT the horrible threats that face goblin villiages NOT harboring the Red Cloak or planning massive crusades against the humans include things like the circus coming to town and charging you money to see the show. And that's about it.
Hobgoblins can have kingdoms with 30,000+ evil soldiers on the border of a major human realm, and no one cares till they attack.
Orcs can plan rock concerts on the border of a human village, and not expect to be brutally attacked and be surprised when the locals run from them rather than taking their money and when advanturers come after them. And Roy and Durkon are both disgusted when adventurers DO go after them. And once they explain the situation everyone, even the jerk advanturers who want XP, is willing to let it go and let the orcs have their concert.
There's very little evidence of indescriminant attacks on inoccent humanoids. There's lots of evidence that you can just settle down and live. Notice that Hinjo's fleet had more than enough military force to wipe out the Orc tribe they encountered, was desperately looking for someplace to live, and rather than genociding them they had a pie eating contest. :)
Seriously. This is not a world that NEEDS the "great plan", maybe it did 1,000 years ago, or maybe the Dark One was as much of an evil jerk as his disciple.
Redcloak is the second biggest cause of goblinoid deaths in the strip (place one goes to the Dark One and those who assassinated him). Red Cloak's plan of attack on Azure city was deliberately DESIGNED to get lots of hobgoblins killed for example. He can greatly ease the plight of goblinkind by DYING.
If he REALLY wants to help he can take his creation Xykon which he has repeatedly saved in preference to his fellows and kill him too.
If he REALLY REALLY wants to help he can true resurect his brother who actually DID something to help goblins prior to Red Cloak getting involved.
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2012-01-13, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I am not sure that Redcloak is hiding the phylactery from Xykon, he knows that Xykon is bright enough that he could have warded it with epic magic (even beyond the cloister currently affecting it).
But can't be sure he knows what it does and doesn't have.
For example Xykon testing Redcloak by knowing where it was at all times and simply pretending not to know is in character.
Similarly developing a spell to locate it, is not beyond the bounds of possibility, particularly as Redcloaks entire argument regarding staying in Azure city was that moving to the gate without knowing it's defences was dangerous.
Xykon could decide to wait around for a while to ensure that he retrieves it or develops a method of gaining a new one, as moving on to the next gate may be dangerous.
SpoilerXykon has after all tested Redcloak regarding this before.
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2012-01-13, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I believe not detect simply stops scrying. Besides it was said that both RC and Xykon put wards on it which means if RC gives a fake to Xykon he cannot put every single ward on it because they don't have access to all the same spells. Not to mention Xykon is a master at crafting he spends 8 hours a day crating. I am not even sure RC has the right level to craft one himself and I certainly don't think he can pull one over on Xykon.
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2012-01-13, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Welp, Redcloak killed eyepatch chick himself, so much for that ship
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2012-01-13, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
mmm
Question: Could be the Dark One HAVE plans with Xykon instead of Redcloak? ?
I mean, Redcloack can't win anything from hide the artifiact except have more holes on the face than under his wrist ... but a God could try to take control of his best option for the door (After all Redcloak is a high NPC mean Xykon it's epic)
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2012-01-13, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Poor Thanh... he died a noble, heroic death, though. Like some have said, I hope we get to see him raised sometime and maybe even reunite with Niu. Their parting scene was really touching, even more so than one might have expected for characters we haven't seen as much of. It was sweet, and it actually sort of reminded me of Leia and Han when he's about to be frozen in carbonite.
I'm also of the mind that Redcloak is planning some sort of betrayal here, but that it wll probably be subtle. Just like (SoD Spoilers)
SpoilerXykon enchanted the MiTD to devour Redcloak if he ever betrays him,
perhaps Redcloak is setting up some kind of failsafe condition to impede/neutralize Xykon for when they inevitably turn on each other.HUMANS....... ARE....... SUPERIORRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But she was naked! And all... articulate!!
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2012-01-13, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Redcloak doesn't dare destroy the phylactery now. He needs Xykon, and the phylactery has preserved him once already.
There is no point to destroying it until after the ritual has been cast. After that point, Xykon is only a threat to the goblins, and Redcloak would like to get rid of him. His plan might be to destroy the phylactery after the ritual is cast, while the Order of the Stick is attacking Xykon.
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2012-01-13, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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2012-01-13, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
I knew Thanh's death was coming, but it didn't soften the impact.
Farewell, old friend. You will be missed.Avatar made by lankybugger - Thanks a lot!
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2012-01-13, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
More to the point, she's not imploding. So, you're correct that that's not the ongoing Implosion spell.
Redcloak probably said the spell name (most likely Slay Living or Destruction)--in panel five or six, when we weren't looking at him. That's not at all unlike Rich.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-01-13, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- Saturn
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2012-01-13, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents