OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread

[Peelee]

Mind you, I didn't say I didn't like Miko as character. She was well developed and all, she was a very important character. And in fact someone that's not so well shaped can't even be "hated". *snip*

Might I introduce you to the elf commander? Or heck, to almost fully half of the last strip discussion thread?

Not that I'm gonna try to stir up that hornet's nest again.... Just pointing out.

[Kish]

Silence! I need to have some advantage Xykon doesn't know about when the time comes for betrayal.

Crafting a doo-dad that protects against implosion should be possible, if I wasn't in such a hurry.

I know you're joking, but, just for the record: Implosion has a Fortitude save and cannot target objects, so Xykon is flat-out immune to it.

[Name Lips]

I know you're joking, but, just for the record: Implosion has a Fortitude save and cannot target objects, so Xykon is flat-out immune to it.

Undead do not count as objects in D&D. They are simply "creatures" with the "undead" type.

They have no constitution score, but still have a fortitude saving throw listed in their stat block and can make fortitude saving throws like any other creature.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Undead do not count as objects in D&D. They are simply "creatures" with the "undead" type.

They have no constitution score, but still have a fortitude saving throw listed in their stat block and can make fortitude saving throws like any other creature.

The undead type grants "Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." That covers about 90% of spells that allow a Fortitude save, including implosion.

[Ashtagon]

By the way, did anyone else notice that those big grey things are osmium elementals? Osmium has a standard atomic weight of 190.23...

[Skull the Troll]

Wow, just wow.

Redcloak is well on his way to becoming a character the could potentially take over the world on his own.

Well, that was the original 'Plan' before Xykon took over. Unfortunately Redcloak seems to be unaware that Xykon is prepping a cleric to replace him as well. Looks like 'irreconcilable differences' are in store for Team Evil.

[Nenec]

Might I introduce you to the elf commander? Or heck, to almost fully half of the last strip discussion thread?

Not that I'm gonna try to stir up that hornet's nest again.... Just pointing out.

Sigh ok so let me rephrase: I can't hate someone not so well shaped. Dislike, not more than that. Better like this? As I said it's all subjective.

Let's leave hornet's nests alone, can we?

By the way, did anyone else notice that those big grey things are osmium elementals? Osmium has a standard atomic weight of 190.23...

I must confess I checked out all Osmium proprieties when reading the symbol so to understand that one elemental better. Non standard elementals ftw.

[UtimaII]

This was a great strip. OotS is now getting darker and darker every moment. It's getting to the point that I'm wondering how the heroes will even win. I'm actually getting a little chill, like after I read the Red Wedding.

As for why Red Cloak wants the events to be secret, I believe it is because he doesn't want everyone to know that the necklace is Xykon's phylactery. Remember in 824, the hobgoblins who found the phylactery didn't even what the thing was or why it was important. Indeed, it would be the height of foolishness for either Xykon or Red Cloak to let in be known what and where Xykon's phylactery is. Just because we the audience, Tsukio, Soon's Ghost, Ochul, the IFCC, and perhaps the Order know about the phylactery, in no way means that it is not supposed to be a secret; their just the ones who happen to know. So that's why he voice his plan to kill his loyal minion; he knew about the phylactery and thus knew too much.

[luc258]

I don't think he wants to hide the fact that his holy symbol is Xykon's phylactery, since it is widely known ever since this link story arc.
With Ochuls escape it's probably save to assume every enemy of team evil knows of the phylactery.

[ganglefortrift]

I'm probably not the only one pointing this out, but Niu is quite clearly dead on panel 8 of the last comic.

[Kish]

No, you're not the only person pointing that out.

And I'm not the only person pointing out that no, that's a different Azurite. Who, as far as the "part of her face isn't covered" thing you see in that panel, cannot be identified any further than "it's a female Azurite," and thus I don't know why you'd feel confident saying it was Niu even if it wasn't, by the latest strip, obviously not Niu.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm probably not the only one pointing this out, but Niu is quite clearly dead on panel 8 of the last comic.

Shorter hair and different coloured body armour. EDIT: Is this the first time we see Niu's weapon of choice? Last time she only brought a blunt weapon because she thought they were dealing with skeletons.

[FatJose]

I'm probably not the only one pointing this out, but Niu is quite clearly dead on panel 8 of the last comic.

That's a generic female guard. Nyu has a unique hairstyle

The exceptions to the rule are Kazumi and Daigo who were stock generics who developed into characters through dialogue. Also, no longer having generic models after the siege.

[ganglefortrift]

Reason I thought that it was Niu: the last 2 strips didn't show anyone else with that haircut or helmet which was with the group at that time. So yeah, got it.

[Peelee]

Shorter hair and different coloured body armour. EDIT: Is this the first time we see Niu's weapon of choice? Last time she only brought a blunt weapon because she thought they were dealing with skeletons.

Aaaaaaaand there's something for the "things you never noticed" thread....

[dancrilis]

I'm probably not the only one pointing this out, but Niu is quite clearly dead on panel 8 of the last comic.

That woman was dead in panel 7 of 825, and is wearing lighter armour then Niu.

Is this the first time we see Niu's weapon of choice? Last time she only brought a blunt weapon because she thought they were dealing with skeletons.

This time she was dealing with Hobgoblins and brought a sword, many people don't have a weapon of choice merely going with what is most efficient.

[rewinn]

Just keep the phylactery hidden and safe, and see what Xykon does when he simply never finds it.

If RC doesn't find the phylactery soon, Xykon will kill him as an incentive for Jirix to do better.

[rewinn]

I know you're joking, but, just for the record: Implosion has a Fortitude save and cannot target objects, so Xykon is flat-out immune to it.

Hmmm ... in that case, is there any other 9th-table Clerical spell RC might use to stab Xykon in the back (...keeping in mind that liches are immune to backstabbing)?

True Resurrection is instantaneous, takes away some of Xykon's advantages over RC (e.g. immunity to implosion), and includes some minor debuffs to the target.

Not that RC is planning to betray Xykon and would therefore wish to accrue some advantage. Oh no. No, never!

[Mutant Sheep]

True Resurrection is instantaneous, takes away some of Xykon's advantages over RC (e.g. immunity to implosion), and includes some minor debuffs to the target.

I'm pretty sure that if he WAS able to True Resurrect an (really old) epic level lich in the first place, Xykon would fall over dead from a caffeine overload.

[Peelee]

True Resurrection is instantaneous, takes away some of Xykon's advantages over RC (e.g. immunity to implosion), and includes some minor debuffs to the target.

All other problems with that aside, Rezzes require the person to be willing to come back to life. Doubtful Xykon would willingly concede his massive power so easily. Maybe if there was a really, REALLY terrible pot of coffee right near him...


EDIT: GAHHHHHH My joke was ninja'd! Curse you, Sheep!

[Ridureyu]

Nooooo! One of the evil humans escaped! Don't leave now, Redcloak! You have to kill her! ALL THE HUMANS MUST DIE!

[Bad Hair Day]

Whats up with people marking pure speculation as spoiler?

Pure optimism. They (okay- we) hope to be exactly right and thus we are "spoiling."

[Metal Archon]

If the Resistance just got completely crushed for good, as insinuated by Than, then I doubt Redcloak is going to hide the phylactery any longer to delay their departure. The Elven insurgents are, for all appearances, dead and any organized threat from the resistance is pacified. There isn't much else to wrap up.

I figured there were more resistance hide-outs, but its rather evident I'm wrong.

[skaddix]

If the Resistance just got completely crushed for good, as insinuated by Than, then I doubt Redcloak is going to hide the phylactery any longer to delay their departure. The Elven insurgents are, for all appearances, dead and any organized threat from the resistance is pacified. There isn't much else to wrap up.

I figured there were more resistance hide-outs, but its rather evident I'm wrong.

even if there are hold outs should be nothing the goblins sans team evil cannot handle. all the elves and paladins are dead and the pcs are gone leaving token resistance at best.

[rewinn]

All other problems with that aside, Rezzes require the person to be willing to come back to life. Doubtful Xykon would willingly concede his massive power so easily. Maybe if there was a really, REALLY terrible pot of coffee right near him...

Hm. Well, we *know* RC is planning to betray Xykon, and is a very very careful planner. RC *needs* some advantage.

It may be simply that RC doesn't want anyone outside Team Evil to know he has 9th table spells. That's a tactical advantage right there, against whoever is guarding the next Gates.

However, it may also be that TRUE Resurrection, when used offensively, is not subject to the will of the target (plus or minus a save.) It depends on how the mechanism of the target's will works. Resurrection has a couple of effects, mostly importantly (A) building a new mortal body and (B) bringing the soul back from the afterlife. It would seem most plausible that the automatic will save affects (B) rather than (A), but in the case of a lich, the soul is already present in the Phylactery and therefore resistance to being brought back from the afterlife wouldn't count.

This is just speculation, of course. In view of Xykon's lichborne +8 to Sense Motive, it may be safest for RC to simply play along and hope for Divine Intervention against Xykon.

[Skull the Troll]

If the Resistance just got completely crushed for good, as insinuated by Than, then I doubt Redcloak is going to hide the phylactery any longer to delay their departure. The Elven insurgents are, for all appearances, dead and any organized threat from the resistance is pacified. There isn't much else to wrap up.

I figured there were more resistance hide-outs, but its rather evident I'm wrong.

Redcloaks original plan for controlling Xykon was to control the Phylactery. Xykon stomped on that pretty hard, and RC's new charactoer growth may have undone Xykon's control of him. (the guilt over killing his brother)

[Lvl45DM!]

Eyepatch chick! noooooo! you should've died with a smile like you went into every battle!
Thanh! NOOOOOOO! didn't even get a hit on RC
RC! You bastard You are so frikkin evil!
Niu It is hardest for you to live on now

[Cirin]

It just occurred to me that if Xykon succeeds and gains the power of the remaining Gates, that he can probably re-write reality however he wishes, thus replacing Redcloak's god (and all gods in general). It makes me wonder why Redcloak has ever followed Xykon at all.

Because it's been established that the ritual does will not give Xykon or Redcloak control of the Gates or Snarl.

It gives control directly to The Dark One, the god of the Goblins. Redcloak knows this, he is lying to Xykon and telling him the ritual gives them control.

Thus Xykon thinks he's getting a superweapon with which he can conquer the world, which is why he's part of the plan. Redcloak doesn't care what he has to do, just as long as they can get to a gate and cast the ritual so The Dark One has control over the Gates and with them, the Snarl.

As people have pointed out, if Tsukiko is trying to learn or reverse-engineer the ritual herself, it makes it very "interesting" if she deciphers that part of the spell.

[Dr.Epic]

Man, I hate these light, fluffy comics. When are they gonna get dark again?

[SatyreIkon]

And there goes the Resistance. Awesome comic, though I really am sad right now