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2012-06-21, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Could he have stacked Desecrate with 3 castings of Create Undead to get 6 mummies? (Not my idea; got it from someone else either in this thread or the #856 thread.) I know it says Animate Undead for the double HD created, not Create Undead, but the underlying thought's the same, right?
If Girard does manage to come back though---hey, Soon did it! And he wasn't even part-Draconic.---I doubt he'll be thrilled at either his descendants being turned into mummies, or his cafeteria Desecrated.
Question for the DM's out there: if you Create undead from dead that had class levels in life, do the undead keep those class levels/abilities? Part of them? None at all? Otherwise, how are monsters such as Mummy Lords created?
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2012-06-21, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
My opinion is that since we know that house rules are in play, we are unlikely to actually be able to deduce information about Malack's level, even if we can agree on what is "most likely" for him to prepare. I suggest his level floor be left as-is.
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2012-06-21, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
I was just reading through Team Evil's stats, and I noticed this minor error; it states in Xykon's list of spells that he has an "unidentified spell that enables travel to the Astral Plane", when we actually know what spell it is (and Redcloak is the one who's casting it); it's Gate, as can be seen by him casting it on the second page, third panel here.
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2012-06-21, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Xykon went there without Redcloak's help at first, so he must know
Plane Shift/Gateor have had a scroll to get there and back.
Speaking of which, that and Nale's invisibility spell seem to set a precedence that off-panel spells aren't assumed to be cast from a scroll. EDIT: Since Xykon can't have Plane Shift or Gate, and had Redcloak transport them to the Astral Plane, perhaps it should be assumed he got there via scroll?
Also, that strip seems to suggest Redcloak has Teleport or something, since he's readying a spell and saying "to the Windy Canyon." Since we know he has other nonstandard spells (cast on the phylactery), would it be reasonable to assume he researched Teleport or a similar spell? Or am I missing something?Last edited by Gift Jeraff; 2012-06-21 at 04:11 PM.
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2012-06-21, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2012-06-21, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
The House Rules in question don't appear to change the level needed.
(From T) We know Create Undead can be cast as an action, but she couldn't create mummies. After that, Malack may or may not have the spell prepared just because it's a domain spell.
Or in other words, either he cast the spell or he has six scrolls lying around... but I don't see why it's simpler to assume he has a 15th level Cleric around somewhere making him scrolls as opposed to having him make them himself.
What we shouldn't assume because of house rules is that he has "Craft Scroll".
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2012-06-22, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
The House Rules in question don't appear to change the level needed.
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2012-06-22, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
If he cast it once, then he needs to be level 15+ to create Mummies.
If he cast it 6 times, then he needs to be level 15+ to create Mummies.
If he cast it from a scroll 6 times, then whoever created the scroll needs to be level 15+.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createUndead.htm
Given that all roads lead to him either being a level 15+ Cleric or having one work for him, I don't see why we shouldn't peg his level at 15+. It's not perfect evidence but it's strong, and if we get evidence that he's not this high a level we can change it.
Edit: Or did Rich say something about this whole situation which I missed?Last edited by Dark Matter; 2012-06-22 at 11:14 AM.
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2012-06-22, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Just that the presence of mummified bodies did...Something.
137ben is theorizing that it permitted Malack, as a house rule, to create mummies rather than zombies with the much-weaker Animate Dead spell rather than using Create Undead, which wouldn't strictly require Malack to be higher level than 5th (!), or 12th if these are standard 8-hit-dice mummies and the "can control 4 hit dice of undead per caster level" rule is in effect. If mummies are what Malack gets whenever he casts Create Undead on any corpse, there's no reason for him to talk about not wasting a scarce resource.Last edited by Kish; 2012-06-22 at 11:21 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-06-22, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Oh. Thank you, I needed to hear that spelled out.
...there's nothing in there I can disagree with, I withdrawal my argument. We're deep into "it's not clear what happened".
Edit: It doesn't clear up anything, but even if he can pull it off normally with a corpse and a 6th level spell, it's still a "scarce resource" if he can do 6 for one with a 3rd level spell (and the house rule might require him to be 15th level, and yeah, I know, we've zero proof for that).Last edited by Dark Matter; 2012-06-22 at 10:25 PM.
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2012-06-24, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
The only houserulling I see is that Create Undead ony can be spelled by night, but I assume that Malack use scrolls, I hardly doubt he prepares 6 Create Undead in the moring by divine inspirat... wait, maybe he prepare it.
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2012-06-24, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
The "rare resource" of the dessicated corpses facilitated the creation of the mummies. Malack said it would be rude not to make use of it. He basically said that the presence of all the dessicated corpses was such a gimme that his own distaste/disgust for the undead was meaningless compared to the inexpensive power he would get having the mummies fight for him. He thought it would be an affront to his god if he didn't use the opportunity. Can't we call that an explicit houserule?
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2012-06-24, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2012-06-24, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
As many have said in this thread, it would be impossible for Malack to create 6 mummies during the day, and arguably in under an hour. All I was trying to say was that Rich, by having Malack make such a big deal about the dessicated corpses, was telling us in a rather direct fashion that he was houseruling ez-bake mummies from Girard's family. This after he went out of his way to highlight the difference between desert wind-dried corpses and the more usual kind.
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2012-06-25, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-06-25, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
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2012-06-25, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Y'think?
Honestly, at this point I think an argument can be made that the whole creation of undead is handled differently, in terms of how many and what kinds of undead can be created by one spell, how long casting that spell takes, and various other restrictions, in OOTS than it is in 3.5D&D. Most of the changes make the creation of undead - and not incidentally the depiction of the creation of undead - a quicker and easier to show process.
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2012-06-25, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
The problem is we're clearly dealing with an exceptional case here, and we don't know why it's exceptional or how that effects things.
Example, if the house rule is "A 15th level Cleric can turn mummified corpses into Mummies with the Animate Dead Spell", then that explains everything.
But there are lots of other house rules which would do the same thing.
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2012-06-25, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-25, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Much as I dislike "Spontaneous Metamagic" feats, I'm beginning to be suspicious of how many Quickened spells V just "happens" to have prepared.
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2012-06-26, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Why? Quicken Spell is one of the better metamagic feats. V's used Expeditious retreat at least three times in the past that I can remember: fleeing the ogres in the Dungeon of Dorukan, exiting the trial scene, and charging the elementals on the wall of Azure City. Quickened Expeditious Retreat is, since V has barred Conjuration, one of a very few fourth-level spells which would help her mobility...and it can be cast as a swift action. Haste would obviously be better, and we've seen V use Quickened Haste before, but using it only on herself would be a waste.
Oh, and V knows Passwall.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-06-26 at 01:22 AM.
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2012-06-26, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Is the latest strip trying to say Z-man has trapfinding skills? or is he just being a smartarse
I Am A:Neutral Good Human Bard/Sorcerer (2nd/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-14
Dexterity-11
Constitution-16
Intelligence-16
Wisdom-12
Charisma-16
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2012-06-26, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Impossible is a biased statement.
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
link to the thread translating Haley's babel speech
this is a must read for all: Common misconceptions (i am in no way joking, please read it)
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2012-06-26, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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2012-06-26, 04:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Added Passwall to V's list.
I think Z is either being a smartass, or just making a spot check that the rest of his team is failing.
And to throw another theory out there, are Malack's undead troops actually mummies? Because they don't look or act like mummies - they look and act like zombies (which are easily acquireable en masse from the Animate Dead spell). Note that mummies are intelligent, and cause paralysis on sight. Perhaps Nale meant that since the dungeon is a pyramidal shape in the desert, it clearly has mummies in it, and he hopes the Order will be cornered with some of those?Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-06-26, 04:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
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2012-06-26, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
Okay, scratch that theory.
So all we know that Malack has a spell that creates mummies. This could be a houseruled Animate Dead (which creates a lot of undead fast, but doesn't do mummies), or a houseruled Create Undead (which creates mummies, but only one at a time and only at night), or a spell from some splatbook that I'm unaware of, or it could be Malack's Amazing Mummy-Making Spell. Since we've seen this situation before, I bet that if somebody were to ask The Giant, he would answer something resembling the latter.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-06-26, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)
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2012-06-27, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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- Texas Tech University
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2012-06-27, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)