League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Since we're on the topic of Irelia, what skill order should we get on her and what do you focus on first over others?

WQWEWR or WEWQWR. I like the latter because it gets you out of level 2 ganks fairly easily. The former lets you start bullying people sooner though, so it's a trade-off. Then R>W>E>Q.

Garen is one of those few matchups where I would actually suggest Wriggles+Phage core. He's kind of a bully.

Agreed. Garen is one of those champs that make Wriggle's a good idea. If Garen isn't out-bullying Irelia, he's doing something pretty wrong.

Stop playign Sona, start playing Soraka/Ali/Janna/Taric/Nunu/GP (SUPPORT NUNU IS SO GOOODDDDDDD)

No love for Leona?

All of my money. Forget my plans to buy more junglers, I'm saving for Lulu.

She looks so much fun. Very much a proactive support. New mission: farm the 2300k IP I'll need to get her ASAP.

EDIT: Wow. That skin looks badass.

[Mirrinus]

New Graves skin is awesome.

Oh, and...anyone interested in watching Nhat Nguyen play Lulu?

[Eldariel]

WQWEWR or WEWQWR. I like the latter because it gets you out of level 2 ganks fairly easily. The former lets you start bullying people sooner though, so it's a trade-off. Then R>W>E>Q.

I personally like to run QE or EQ if I'm the beneficiary of a level 2 gank myself; gives me the most early chase and CC to go with it. Suffice to say, the order of the first 3 ranks depends entirely on the game scenario.

[Qaera]

New Graves skin is awesome.
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[Mirrinus]

Lulu is SUCH a Cloud Cuckoo Lander.

"You see more with your eyes closed."
"Yup, that tasted purple!"
"Never look a tulip in the eye."

And she even says "Vrooom! Vrooom!" when casting W on an ally.

Also, that harass from her passive!

[Boowells]

New Graves skin is awesome.

Oh, and...anyone interested in watching Nhat Nguyen play Lulu?

I want Lulu. OH MY GOD. I want Lulu.

[TechnOkami]

I'm going to leave you all with something more mindbogling than ever before.

Her ult increases model size.

Lulu Ult + Surge + Dominion Buff + Full Stacks Cho'Gath.

The size man... the size...

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I personally like to run QE or EQ if I'm the beneficiary of a level 2 gank myself; gives me the most early chase and CC to go with it. Suffice to say, the order of the first 3 ranks depends entirely on the game scenario.

A very good point, actually.

[Mirrinus]

New item: Maw of Malmortius

+55 AD, +36 MR, UNIQUE PASSIVE: 400 HP shield on magic damage when below 30% health (Hexdrinker passive), UNIQUE PASSIVE: You gain +1 AD for each 2.5% HP that you are missing.

Builds from Hexdrinker and Pickaxe. 3300 gold total cost.

[LordShotGun]

New item: Maw of Malmortius

+55 AD, +36 MR, UNIQUE PASSIVE: 400 HP shield on magic damage when below 30% health (Hexdrinker passive), UNIQUE PASSIVE: You gain +1 AD for each 2.5% HP that you are missing.

Builds from Hexdrinker and Pickaxe. 3300 gold total cost.

Stacks with tyrn's Q? That's crazy!!!!!! I can see alot of tyrns and rivens getting this item.

[fred dref]

New item: Maw of Malmortius

+55 AD, +36 MR, UNIQUE PASSIVE: 400 HP shield on magic damage when below 30% health (Hexdrinker passive), UNIQUE PASSIVE: You gain +1 AD for each 2.5% HP that you are missing.

Builds from Hexdrinker and Pickaxe. 3300 gold total cost.

They were talking about that one back when they made Hexdrinker originally. They couldn't figure out a way to make it balanced. Seems like this iteration would be strong on Riven and Lee Sin.

EDIT: You're paying for a lot of unnecessary MR unless you're going for a tanky DPS sort of Trynd. Just get a Bloodthirster instead.

[Eldariel]

With all this talk about the new AD caster item, I'm just wishing they'll finally roll Lifesteal into Physical Damage abilities and limit Spellvamp only into magical. It makes no sense that you have to build SPELLvamp on Pantheon/Riven/Garen/Whathaveyou anyways. That would improve AD caster itemization so much.

And maybe making critical chance act as a direct damage multiplier to the bonus portion of the damage (only bonus tho; multiplying the whole damage would obviously be too strong, but making Crit Chance act like Deathcap for AD casters would work); still not as strong as autoattack crits of course but that would open up AD caster itemization a ton (and make Bloodthirster even better but even then, Talon would be no more special than Akali in that regard).


Seriously, the fact that three of the four systems in place for AD champs (ASpd, crit, lifesteal, AD) don't function for AD casters kinda makes their itemization stupid and fixing that would require redesigning of the whole itembase ground-up. Easier just to roll the existing systems that are logically easy to enable for AD casters into the AD caster itemization.

The change wouldn't even necessary overpower existing champs with the current values since outside Youmuu's and BTs these stats barely see building on AD casters, and even in those two cases Youmuu's is invariably a superlate build due to its relatively low cost-efficiency on melee casters. It might make Corki and Ezreal strongish but that's about it.

[Mirrinus]

Patch Preview video up.

Rammus nerf, Jax ult changed, Shaco scaling tweaked, Lifesteal items nerf. Oh, and better nerf Irelia while we're at it.

That Irelia nerf sounds like quite a bit...and I'm actually okay with it.

[fred dref]

Dislike life steal nerfs, fan of BT stacks change, fan of shaco and rammus changes (from what I can see) and I think I'm probably a fan of Jax change. Pretty much nobody I play got changed, so the only change of note for me is the Vamp Scepter nerf, because man I already went kinda low on Mundo sometimes. I guess I need ASpd blues, then.

EDIT: Oh, and Rammus QoL change so, so, so, so, so good.

[Lix Lorn]

Garen is one of those few matchups where I would actually suggest Wriggles+Phage core. He's kind of a bully.

Agreed. Garen is one of those champs that make Wriggle's a good idea. If Garen isn't out-bullying Irelia, he's doing something pretty wrong.

He was bad then. xD

That Irelia nerf sounds like quite a bit...and I'm actually okay with it.

'Alright, so we're nerfing the two abilities you actually play Irelia for.'
Sigh.

[Mirrinus]

Let me rephrase: I'm okay with Irelia's nerfs because I don't play Irelia, and often play against her.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

>.>

<.<

...better nerf Irelia.

Sorry, had to say it.

I'll... I'll have to see the numbers. It'll really depend on how bad it is vs. the general lifesteal nerf, I suppose.

[PEACH]

New item: Maw of Malmortius

+55 AD, +36 MR, UNIQUE PASSIVE: 400 HP shield on magic damage when below 30% health (Hexdrinker passive), UNIQUE PASSIVE: You gain +1 AD for each 2.5% HP that you are missing.

Builds from Hexdrinker and Pickaxe. 3300 gold total cost.

That item sounds... mediocre, actually. Looking at it, you're dropping 5 AD from the bases, so the 2.5% isn't necessarily huge (you need to be down 12.5% just to make it "even" with having a hexdrinker and a pickaxe). For 3300, you get, if you can sit at one HP, 95 AD, 36 MR, and a shield. It's not terrible, but the fact is very few people can sit at suck low HP, and since it's got no multiplicative effects, it only really works on tanky DPS types that want MR and pure damage. I guess it could work on Riven, Panth, and a few others, but it doesn't really do anything to draw in people who weren't already buying a hexdrinker, since it's essentially just a slightly stronger hexdrinker.

[Boowells]

>.>
I'll... I'll have to see the numbers. It'll really depend on how bad it is vs. the general lifesteal nerf, I suppose.

If they're really nerfing so much sustain, it probably won't be long before Nasus is hit. I mean, technically, he gets better than a Vampiric Scepter at level 1 now.

It'd have to depend on the numbers, I agree, but I hope they aren't too severe. It's kind of the reason why people pick Nasus and Irelia. Sustain in lane and powerful lategames.

Although, then again, you can just get a philostone for mana sustain and activate the W, autoattacking minions. I kinda always get philostone on her anyway.

Also, is anyone considering dualcasting Lulu's ult with Renekton/Nasus ultimates? Lulu's ult slows enemies around the recipient constantly, right? That's like, 900 health added onto already tanky-oriented characters and a slow that keeps them in the percentage-based ultimates.

[PEACH]

Plus they get even bigger! But yeah, giving some decent sticking power to Nasus and Renekton is pretty good, so ulting them is nice. In general, it seems like the kind of ult you want to put on your tanky DPS champ (or, I guess, a mage who tends to be in the center of fights) for the extra stickiness.

[fred dref]

Plus they get even bigger! But yeah, giving some decent sticking power to Nasus and Renekton is pretty good, so ulting them is nice. In general, it seems like the kind of ult you want to put on your tanky DPS champ (or, I guess, a mage who tends to be in the center of fights) for the extra stickiness.

I'd rather knock people off the carry and let them kite melee champs a little harder, honestly.

percentage-based ultimates.

Renekton's is stupid and bad and not percentage based. Totally not a Nasus player.

[ex cathedra]

I play Irelia for Q and W. Bladesurge = best ability design in the game. Hiten Style is arguably the worst but w/e.

Hiten Style nerf has been a long time coming, Ult's CD was widely accepted as outrageously short. If they're really doing what they're suggesting that they're doing, weakening her laning but leaving her teamfighting be, I'm totally okay with these nerfs. I own two Irelia skins.

New itemization is welcome. The thing is, while it doesn't offer anything to anyone who didn't buy Hexdrinker, people who bought Hexdrinker finally have something to build it into. It has potential on Lee Sin, at least, so I'll give it a try the next time I lane Lee Sin versus Vlad or something. The MR portion is a bit low, sadly.

Loving the BT nerf (AD carries who can actually farm get off of the ground way too fast, IMO), accepting the Wriggles nerf. It kind of deserved it.

I would put Lulu's ult on my carry to peel for them. Because that's what a good support does.

[tyckspoon]

If they're really nerfing so much sustain, it probably won't be long before Nasus is hit. I mean, technically, he gets better than a Vampiric Scepter at level 1 now.

They've left Morgana's passive alone, so maybe not. But then, lifesteal is *much* better than spellvamp, and I'm kind of surprised it took them this long to nerf the lifesteal items after they already decided Revolver/WotA/Gunblade was 'too much sustain' for casters, so... perhaps they will hit Nasus on that basis (Lifesteal being a better recovery tool than an equivalent amount of spellvamp.)

[Boowells]

Renekton's is stupid and bad and not percentage based.

It isn't? EDIT: Oh, hey, wow. It isn't. Although, Nasus and Lulu will be very close friends. Those ultimates, man.

As to Lulu's ultimate, I agree. It could be used in a variety of ways. Technically, it's going to result in more effective HP on tanks because they have resistances for survival, where carries have lifesteal for survival, but it does have a knockback. I don't think the slow is going to be TOO useful for carries because bruisers generally have gap closers. Fiora, especially, has a double gap closer, which is plenty enough for the duration of Lulu's ultimate.

[PEACH]

I'd rather knock people off the carry and let them kite melee champs a little harder, honestly.

Also a fine option, but I live in a magical theoryland where AD carries aren't getting swarmed by multiple people in melee. If the carry needs it, the carry needs it, but my gut feeling is that it's probably more effective in the abstract to use it to help keep the enemies from ever getting to the carry. After all, if NasusZilla is beating up the guy going after the carry, they're still slowed just as much by Lulu's ult as if you had Kogzilla instead.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Dislike life steal nerfs, fan of BT stacks change, fan of shaco and rammus changes (from what I can see) and I think I'm probably a fan of Jax change. Pretty much nobody I play got changed, so the only change of note for me is the Vamp Scepter nerf, because man I already went kinda low on Mundo sometimes. I guess I need ASpd blues, then.

EDIT: Oh, and Rammus QoL change so, so, so, so, so good.

Spellvamp quints mundo is best mundo.

[Boowells]

I'm watching the streams and waiting....waiting...

...waiting for the moment when they finally do Nalulu combo. I want to see how effective it is.

[ex cathedra]

Also a fine option, but I live in a magical theoryland where AD carries aren't getting swarmed by multiple people in melee. gapclosers don't exist

FTFY.

Spellvamp Mundo is pretty legit, though.

[fred dref]

I've always wondered, is it a noticeable improvement to lifesteal quints on Mundo?

[ex cathedra]

I've always wondered, is it a noticeable improvement to lifesteal quints on Mundo?

No clue. Who actually owns Lifesteal quints? Unless you're Nasus there isn't a great deal of incentive to purchase them. Spellvamp quints have like infinite utility.