The gods are Liars

[doodthedud]

I think they're analogous to when you get a hole in your jumper:
You can sprinkle live animals into the jumper

Wat. I.......wat?

[AceOfFools]

Wat. I.......wat?

Step 1: Acquire Jumper with hole
Step 2: Buy live crickets from pet store (they're sold as food for other pets)
Step 3: Empty container the pet store put the crickets in onto the Jumper.

Unfortunately, there is no profit in these scheme.

[eilandesq]

There's a laundry list of unknowns here (spoilers include details from Start of Darkness):

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1. Are the OotS-verse gods capable of easily (or with moderate difficulty) recreating the gates, thereby removing the immediate threat that the Snarl will be released? (probable answer given the usual power level of D&D gods--yes);

2. If the answer to 1. is "yes," are they capable of doing so in a way that won't let someone like Redcloak control the Snarl if he gets control of a Gate rebuilt by the gods? (no likely clear answer here--the nature of the Snarl itself might result in any working Gate allowing control of the Snarl);

3. Are the gods actually aware of the danger posed by Xykon, Redcloak, and the exploding Gates? (They're sure not acting like it, are they?)

4. If the gods aren't yet aware of the danger, but become aware in the near future, would they be likely to react by whacking the Dark One (assuming that the evil gods stand aside due to the threat of the Snarl to all of them), or is such an action unthinkable due to the possible risk of creating *another* Snarl in the fighting? (hard to tell--the gods were apparently ready to kill the Dark One after his ascension before the evil gods intervened, which would seem insane if they truly feared setting loose another snarl).

5. Is reasoning all this out kind of difficult largely because the OotS-verse gods are kind of clueless dolts most of the time? (Well, yes--Tiamat might win the prize here for not taking advantage of her prophetic abilities and whispering into her Oracle's ear: "tell the angry momma black dragon just to kill the bleeping elf and don't mess around with epic revenge.")

[Roderick_BR]

Here


It is vauge though. They could influence the threads and create on top of the worlds...But they couldn't fix the rifts.

The gods are still jerks though. Just send an army of angels to each gate. Especialy when the heroes are up against Xykon.

And that always make me think, why can't the gods just send armies of angels/ avatars/whatever to fix everything, or at least major dangers? There must be a reason.

[Winter]

I unspoilered the things that have appeared in the online comic by now. Redcloak spilled his beans (to everyone) during the speech with Tsukiko.

1. Are the OotS-verse gods capable of easily (or with moderate difficulty) recreating the gates, thereby removing the immediate threat that the Snarl will be released? (probable answer given the usual power level of D&D gods--yes);

Obviously they cannot fiddle with the rifts OR the gates. Or they would already have done so.

2. If the answer to 1. is "yes," are they capable of doing so in a way that won't let someone like Redcloak control the Snarl if he gets control of a Gate rebuilt by the gods? (no likely clear answer here--the nature of the Snarl itself might result in any working Gate allowing control of the Snarl);

The answer is "no", but to address your question: The Redcloak does not want to control the Snarl and he knows that is impossible. Xykon thinks he could control the Snarl but we know that was a lie told by Redcloak to him.
So "controlling the Snarl" never entered the equation at all.

3. Are the gods actually aware of the danger posed by Xykon, Redcloak, and the exploding Gates? (They're sure not acting like it, are they?)

As they know about the Snarl and about the rifts, it is very likely they are aware of what is going on. In fact, the stuff around that has caused enough hassle by now so they have to notice.
Like... Miko Falling, Azure City being sacked (and under the massive glowing thing), three gates blowing up... if they did not hear all that they must be dead already. As Durkon still gets spells, it is save to assume the gods are still around and as such are aware what is going on.
Tiamat must have a clue (as the Oracle works through her).

4. If the gods aren't yet aware of the danger, but become aware in the near future, would they be likely to react by whacking the Dark One...

They did not whack the Dark One "back then", so why should they now? He has allies among the evil gods and also: If you set out to whack a god, it could very well be he whacks you instead. Why take that risk now?
Also, the Dark One is not actually the problem. The Rifts in the Universe to a locked-up godkiller are.
Apart from that, the gods very probably are aware of the danger or at least of the problem.

5. Is reasoning all this out kind of difficult largely because the OotS-verse gods are kind of clueless dolts most of the time? (Well, yes--Tiamat might win the prize here for not taking advantage of her prophetic abilities and whispering into her Oracle's ear: "tell the angry momma black dragon just to kill the bleeping elf and don't mess around with epic revenge.") [/spoiler]

They simply are unable to act due to the problem being beyond their power to directly deal with, due to the danger to deal with the Snarl and Rifts at all (as god, I'd not go near them!)
We have no real idea how the Oracle works, if there are Rules the gods are bound to or even what Tiamat's agenda in all this is. Maybe she hopes that Redcloak will succeed and that the Dark One uses the Snarl to nuke some of the good gods?

[androkguz]

Whether or not the gods are lying (about anything) and why they don't just defend the Gates with an army of angels.

Cool, in that case, my guess is:

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The Snarl is not really a god killing abomination, nor does it unmake those who fall into it. The Snarl is a rift to another dimension and Earth 1.0 is still there with all the Greek Eastern Gods ruling it. The Order of the Scribble got their facts wrong because they didn't learned it from the gods. They learned the Snarl existed and that once released Earth 1.0 dissapeared and they assumed that the Snarl was unmaking it.
But the Dark One was tricked by Tiamat and Rat. Somehow, the Dark One's plot works in their favor.

[OMGBearIsDrivin]

Obviously they cannot fiddle with the rifts OR the gates. Or they would already have done so.

Even if they were capable of fiddling with the rifts, it doesn't necessarily follow that they would. They might well have an agenda unknown to us. Just a thought.

[Niveus Candidus]

We already know that something isn't correct, possibly due to deception. The planet inside the rift, the inconsistencies in the history as presented from each side and the nonsensical nature of the OotS' breakup and legacy all point to unreliable narrators and fragmentary story. We don't have the whole truth, enjoy the ride.

[Winter]

Even if they were capable of fiddling with the rifts, it doesn't necessarily follow that they would. They might well have an agenda unknown to us. Just a thought.

Like... "Oh yeah, we want to get ripped apart like the Eastern Pantheon"? Single gods might have an agenda, *all* of them leaving their(!) creation-destroyer and god-killer free to destroy creation seems very unlikely.

[Euodiachloris]

Ineffable are the games of the gods. And, trying to work out what's on their minds is probably worse.

We don't know the lies from the truths or the agendas from the mistakes.

Myself, I'm content to Read And Find Out.

But, I'm guessing we're talking about as big a snarl in various motivations as we are talking of a Snarl in continuity/ continuities.

Mind you, I like the idea of a Rift calmly hiding its little self at the bottom of an ocean trench somewhere. Suddenly, being a giant squid doesn't look all that safe, even without whales in the equation.

[SavageWombat]

Ineffable are the games of the gods.

It's not ineffable. The gods play Chutes and Ladders.

Really, really vicious Chutes and Ladders.

[Euodiachloris]

It's not ineffable. The gods play Chutes and Ladders.

Really, really vicious Chutes and Ladders.

Meh: some gods, maybe. Others have more class...

"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players*, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time."

*I.e. us.

— from Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.

Although, don't ask me who wrote that bit. It feels Pratchettesque, but it's rather hard to tell for sure.

I only steal from the best.

[Kish]

And do you know which author said that gods play Chutes and Ladders--with greased ladders?

(Also Pratchett.)

[oppyu]

The gods actually play strip poker. They're a rambunctious lot.

[martianmister]

Don't forget Chess.

[veti]

3. Are the gods actually aware of the danger posed by Xykon, Redcloak, and the exploding Gates? (They're sure not acting like it, are they?)

You're forgetting the whole 'ineffability' thing that gods are so big on.

The reason nothing they do ever seems to make sense is because we have no clue what their motivations or constraints are.

In particular, I suggest considering: what would be the opportunity cost to the gods of intervening more directly in the fight over the gates? Off the top of my head:

• The OOTS would miss out on a lot of XP
• The world would be short one epic story
• Elan might not get his happy ending
• Humans would get the message that there's nothing for them to worry about, every li'l thing's gonna be all right, because if anything ever gets too hairy the gods will take care of it
• Conversely, other humans will get the message that the gods are really scared of these 'gate' thingies, and might start to think along D&D player lines ("if it has hit points, it can die").

We can only speculate what importance the gods might attach to these and other considerations. Perhaps they know that, unless humans (and demi-humans) are allowed to have their own epic stories of triumphing over adversity, they'll soon forget all about 'gods'. Or perhaps some of them really like Elan, and consider that a world in which he can't earn his happy ending is a world that's not worth saving.

[oppyu]

Don't forget Chess.

Strip chess! That's how we can make chess cool again!

[martianmister]

Strip chess! That's how we can make chess cool again!

http://www.sandraandwoo.com/images/c...er-426x540.png

He wouldn't think so.

[Crisis21]

You're forgetting the whole 'ineffability' thing that gods are so big on.

The reason nothing they do ever seems to make sense is because we have no clue what their motivations or constraints are.

In particular, I suggest considering: what would be the opportunity cost to the gods of intervening more directly in the fight over the gates? Off the top of my head:

• The OOTS would miss out on a lot of XP
• The world would be short one epic story
• Elan might not get his happy ending
• Humans would get the message that there's nothing for them to worry about, every li'l thing's gonna be all right, because if anything ever gets too hairy the gods will take care of it
• Conversely, other humans will get the message that the gods are really scared of these 'gate' thingies, and might start to think along D&D player lines ("if it has hit points, it can die").

We can only speculate what importance the gods might attach to these and other considerations. Perhaps they know that, unless humans (and demi-humans) are allowed to have their own epic stories of triumphing over adversity, they'll soon forget all about 'gods'. Or perhaps some of them really like Elan, and consider that a world in which he can't earn his happy ending is a world that's not worth saving.

And also, assuming everything we've been told is accurate, the Gods have the option of actually unmaking the world and remaking the Snarl's prison at a later time if the worst happens. They can survive the destruction of the world, they've already done so, and are inherently less motivated to do something than those who's very existence would end if the Snarl were unleashed.

Basically, the Gods have an extra option. Everyone else doesn't.