LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

[The Succubus]

*grumbles* are not *mumbles*
[/tsundere]

All of this. I'm glad to hear your mother is supportive, even if she doesn't get the whole problem.

Alas, that sort of issue is deeply personal AND not a disorder by itself (I don't think so, anyway). It's going to be difficult to find a therapist who doesn't believe in binary gender, and who won't try to force a gender identity on you. You may be better off discussing with other LGBTQ+ people, or reflecting alone on yourself there, rather than see a professional who was trained to fix abnormalities.

Yeah, this is the point I was clumsily trying to make. You said that your options are either a "cure" or a full on transition being offered by your therapists and from that description, neither seemed to want to help you explore your gender, which is why I suggested exploring yourself until you have a better idea of who you are. I've no doubt that a therapist with experience of NBG would be the ideal third option though.

[Heliomance]

Yeah, this is the point I was clumsily trying to make. You said that your options are either a "cure" or a full on transition being offered by your therapists and from that description, neither seemed to want to help you explore your gender, which is why I suggested exploring yourself until you have a better idea of who you are. I've no doubt that a therapist with experience of NBG would be the ideal third option though.

Ah, that was paraphrasing my mother's opinion on the subject. Sorry! I've not actually started therapy. I would have thought that most gender identity therapists these days have a reasonable idea of what they're talking about.

[Astrella]

I seem to recall some discussion of a list of the ones who got good trans reviews being compiled by some groups, though I can't remember what country or countries were covered or if it was only surgeons...

http://www.t-vox.org/index.php?title...United_Kingdom

Cross-referencing on r/asktransgender; or even better, trying to come into contact with UK-based support groups would be pretty useful as well. (Cause they'd be more familiar with the specifics of care in the UK.)

[Heliomance]

None on that list anywhere near me, sadly.

[noparlpf]

Argle. Just had a conversation with mum that went "Why do you need therapy? Just accept every day that you are who you are and that's fine."

Thanks, mum. It's great that you're accepting and all, but it's really not that easy.

Oh, and apparently therapists fall into one of two camps on such matters - either they go "spawn of the devil, we must cure you of this!" or they go "Of course you're a real girl, come on, let's get your balls chopped off and you into a shiny new body."

Like I said. She accepts, but she really doesn't understand.

*hugs*

Something I've noticed about people who "accept without understanding"--often, it's more like, "It doesn't bother me, so why are you so worried about it?" (It being whatever the problem is. In your case, genderfluidity.) Which is really kind of dismissive--"It's not a problem for me, so you should get over it." I don't like that kind of "acceptance". I prefer support.

[Asta Kask]

Are transformers welcome in this thread?

[noparlpf]

Are transformers welcome in this thread?

Which kind?

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or

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[Arachu]

Are transformers welcome in this thread?

You mean those awesome robots that turn into sports-car-shaped tanks or those awesome contraptions that let us have electrical lighting? Dammit Nope!

[Coidzor]

Are transformers welcome in this thread?

As long as they aren't Michael Bayan.

[Nix Nihila]

As long as we don't make puns about them. I know I'm sick of hearing "I'm fine with trans people, as long as they're not Decepticons."

And yes, this is something I've had people say to me several times.

[KenderWizard]

I don't know about genderqueer though? Are they always crossdressing, or are they never crossdressing?

We-ell. They're not crossdressing when they're naked. Maybe it's crossdressing when they're deliberately dressing like a gender-expression-endpoint rather than in clothes that happen to be a bit masculine or a bit feminine.

Which kind?

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or

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Heehee! I vote the first one.

[Coidzor]

We-ell. They're not crossdressing when they're naked.

Depends on what accessories allow you to still count as naked, I imagine.

[Arachu]

We-ell. They're not crossdressing when they're naked. Maybe it's crossdressing when they're deliberately dressing like a gender-expression-endpoint rather than in clothes that happen to be a bit masculine or a bit feminine.

Wouldn't nudity technically be the most gender-neutral expression there is? :hmm...:

[pffh]

Wouldn't nudity technically be the most gender-neutral expression there is? :hmm...:

I don't know how it is where you're from but around here nudity expresses a gender quite loudly.

[noparlpf]

You mean those awesome robots that turn into sports-car-shaped tanks or those awesome contraptions that let us have electrical lighting? Dammit Nope!

I got there first. :b

Wouldn't nudity technically be the most gender-neutral expression there is? :hmm...:

I dunno, nudity leaves primary sex characteristics visible. So someone with a penis is more likely to be taken for male while nude than while in pants or a dress or pretty much anything.

[Nix Nihila]

I don't know how it is where you're from but around here nudity expresses a gender quite loudly.

Well, it displays primary sex characteristics, not gender. But, as Nope pointed out, in terms of gender expression, nudity is more likely to get you pinned as a certain gender than wearing clothes.

[pffh]

Well, it displays primary sex characteristics, not gender.

I always confuse those two since we only have one word in Icelandic (Kyn).

[Astrella]

We-ell. They're not crossdressing when they're naked. Maybe it's crossdressing when they're deliberately dressing like a gender-expression-endpoint rather than in clothes that happen to be a bit masculine or a bit feminine.

It depends; because obviously genderqueer people's gender expression varies a ton from person to person. Maybe define crossdressing as expressing yourself in a way that differs from your preferred expression?

[Coidzor]

^: Cross generally implies going over to an opposite though, and determining an opposite for a genderqueer individual seems like it'd involve a lot of ultimately unnecessary work given the gamut they run and that there's no apparent need to define such for them.

I got there first. :b



I dunno, nudity leaves primary sex characteristics visible. So someone with a penis is more likely to be taken for male while nude than while in pants or a dress or pretty much anything.

Don't forget the secondary ones!

And while they may not express the person's personal gender identity, they definitely express a picture of a gender...

[golentan]

I don't know, I like the idea of a whole lot of gender ambiguous nudity. I think we should have a lot of it around here to experimentally verify its relation to gender expression and crossdressing.

[Coidzor]

I don't know, I like the idea of a whole lot of gender ambiguous nudity. I think we should have a lot of it around here to experimentally verify its relation to gender expression and crossdressing.

How would you manage that with humans and without massive unnecessary cosmetic surgery?

[Astrella]

How would you manage that with humans and without massive unnecessary cosmetic surgery?

Unless I'm misreading Golentan's post; I think it was more a sentiment along the lines of "Let's all get naked!" (For science, obviously. )

[Lix Lorn]

Funny, another friend of mine said the same thing. Meanwhile, the friend of my new girlfriend said she'd hurt me if I did anything to her to hurt her.

Don't worry about it.
It's the friend's JOB to say that.

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I can't escape my maleness. Even if I don't do it, it happens.

._.

~ ♅

(hugs tight)

A question has arisen! It is twofold:
1. Can a transexual crossdress?
2. Do some transexuals crossdress?

I say yes and probably but I haven't asked (which is why I'm doing so now). What do you think?

(if this is offensive to anyone, I really am genuinely sorry. I can't see it being, but I'm notoriously bad at telling that sort of thing)

Yes and maybe. I'd define crossdressing as deciding to do so for the pleasure of it, or even for the scandal of it, so while they could, I'm not sure many would.

As long as they aren't Michael Bayan.

We accept all kinds here, Even the explosive kinds.

I don't know, I like the idea of a whole lot of gender ambiguous nudity. I think we should have a lot of it around here to experimentally verify its relation to gender expression and crossdressing.

Unless I'm misreading Golentan's post; I think it was more a sentiment along the lines of "Let's all get naked!" (For science, obviously. )

Well, if it's for SCIENCE...

[Arachu]

Science!

How would you manage that with humans and without massive unnecessary cosmetic surgery?

Leg-crossing, sometimes arm-crossing, various poses, etc.

... What? I think I've put a rather healthy amount of thought into the subject.

[Lea Plath]

Make a calander, raise some money from it :P

Use the money to fund science.

[Mono Vertigo]

Nudity?
Noooooooooooo my nemesis
I'll put myself in a comfy opaque cocoon of CLOTHES. *curls up pathetically in a corner whenever she's wearing a swimsuit*
Dang, I don't like showing off my skin, I don't like adult content, naked people disturb me a tiny little bit, and I have the libido of a castrated kitten. I'm the most un-fun person EVER.

[Mina Kobold]

I don't know, I like the idea of a whole lot of gender ambiguous nudity. I think we should have a lot of it around here to experimentally verify its relation to gender expression and crossdressing.

I think both of our avatars are technically nude and gender ambiguous, but as for actually going naked?

Nudity?
Noooooooooooo my nemesis
I'll put myself in a comfy opaque cocoon of CLOTHES. *curls up pathetically in a corner whenever she's wearing a swimsuit*
Dang, I don't like showing off my skin, I don't like adult content, naked people disturb me a tiny little bit, and I have the libido of a castrated kitten. I'm the most un-fun person EVER.

This. I don't even like sun on my skin. People looking is even more unnerving. ._.

I do want to be a kitten, though. Sounds like it would be fun.

Mew.

[Arachu]

*Hugs Musashi and Keveak* Now now, I'm pretty sure no-one's going to nude* around here... Even if they did, I'd be way to shy to join them anyway.

* - I made a verb!

Make a calander, raise some money from it :P

Use the money to fund science.

Form a hypothesis, experiment until everyone comes to a satisfying conclusion. Publish results to fund more research.

I made a meme! I think...

[supernerd]

So, writing a story and relavance here is that the two romantic leads are both guys. I'm just about to the part where they first meet and I was wondering if I should switch narration to get the other one there, or make it all in one perspective until it's necessary?

[Mono Vertigo]

This. I don't even like sun on my skin. People looking is even more unnerving. ._.

I do want to be a kitten, though. Sounds like it would be fun.

Mew.

Amusingly, I have no modesty issue with BF. He's handsome, too! And always has been... I guess. Back when we were just friends, he showed very little skin, understandably. Now, there's nothing I like better than innocent naked cuddling.
Bah, I'm weird. Humans are weird. Everything is so freaking weird.

Everyone wants to be a cat. So peaceful and fuzzy and stuff. Ooooh look here's our spoiled cute kitty hi kitty do you want to be petted *devolves into a slobbering scratch-machine*