Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLIV: Stunt Bro and Hella Jayden

[hierophant]

So none of the all powerful archmages consider themselves important enough to choose their own lives over some pitiful humans?
I guess their previous appearance was all an act because somethingsomething totally makes sense whatever.
Remember how Dominic's vision, opinion and actual physical safety were worth less than nothing to them? I wish that was still the case here.

[Trazoi]

Because either way he wins.

Hahaha no. We've got no way to tell how much King DJ is "winning" because Mookie doesn't like to limit himself by giving his villains clear definable goals. Instead we're left playing the game of trying to find what motives are left once we remove all the ones that don't make any sense given his actions. Can anyone find one, because I sure can't.

If the archmages kill the deegans crew, then that threat is removed. If the deegans kill the archmages, thats one less group of people with the power to oppose him.

Dominic Deegan can be defeated by simply sending the local guard to arrest him. There's no point wasting a barely-controlled archmage on him.

The archmages themselves would make insanely powerful allies, and are King DJ's only diplomatic link to four whole dimensions worth of stuff. Spending time to fully corrupt them should be worth a lot more than mindlessly killing them off on missions far more suited to TIM.

Instead, all this has done is tip off DJ's hand that he's making his move. DJ's got enough power to control some of the most powerful beings in existence, but not enough power to actually do anything effective. Or apparently, achieve whatever his hidden goal is yet.

But then again, maybe this all part of some master plan and if we all knew King DJ's goal it would all make sense. So we're back to the game again: what goal could DJ possibly have where this make sense, in that it's the best strategy for him to take but also explains why he hasn't won yet.

[Traab]

Hahaha no. We've got no way to tell how much King DJ is "winning" because Mookie doesn't like to limit himself by giving his villains clear definable goals. Instead we're left playing the game of trying to find what motives are left once we remove all the ones that don't make any sense given his actions. Can anyone find one, because I sure can't.


Dominic Deegan can be defeated by simply sending the local guard to arrest him. There's no point wasting a barely-controlled archmage on him.

The archmages themselves would make insanely powerful allies, and are King DJ's only diplomatic link to four whole dimensions worth of stuff. Spending time to fully corrupt them should be worth a lot more than mindlessly killing them off on missions far more suited to TIM.

Instead, all this has done is tip off DJ's hand that he's making his move. DJ's got enough power to control some of the most powerful beings in existence, but not enough power to actually do anything effective. Or apparently, achieve whatever his hidden goal is yet.

But then again, maybe this all part of some master plan and if we all knew King DJ's goal it would all make sense. So we're back to the game again: what goal could DJ possibly have where this make sense, in that it's the best strategy for him to take but also explains why he hasn't won yet.

Its true we dont know what djs plan is, but its fairly safe to say that the archmages are going to be against it, since his ally did kill murray. The deegans are also openly against his plans, even though we dont know what it is. By sending one group of beings that are against him against another group, he doesnt risk losing any of his people, and he weakens the other side. It is really immaterial what his actual plan is, at its most basic, he is quite effectively weakening the other side without risking any of his pieces.

Yes, you have a point that the other circle members are his link to other dimensions, but as we have clearly seen, those archmages are fighting against his control over them. Its far smarter to use them as disposable weapons while he can, in an effort to get some real use out of them, than to hold them back and hope they dont find a way to fight back against his control more effectively later.

The problem with sending the local guard is that dom IS a seer. There are protections against seers, we have seen them, (once each then never again, but still) archmages are going to be among those who can manage to strike at a seer without being spotted beforehand. Some random schlub constable is not. We may not SEE dom setting up defenses or checking for incoming attackers on a regular basis, but that doesnt mean he isnt.

DJ has been "making his move" since before the deegans were even aware he was involved, so its not like dom is going to say, "Oh wow, I guess the king has finally started to target us, he must be up to something." DJ DOESNT have enough power to control these ultra powerful beings. If he did they wouldnt be resisting him. So he is forcing this confrontation because this is the best way he can use these unreliable pawns, to target his enemies and weaken the other side as much as possible before A) The archmages break free, and B) before the deegans manage to reunite and actually DO something.

[TheLaughingMan]

Metallica varies from Hate to meh, Porcupine Tree is meh, Tenacious D varies from Hate to wuh?

Ah. In that case, there's nothing that can be done. We've already lost you to the Pop Side.

May your inner-rocker rest in peace, Darth Gwyn.

[hierophant]

Yes, you have a point that the other circle members are his link to other dimensions, but as we have clearly seen, those archmages are fighting against his control over them. Its far smarter to use them as disposable weapons while he can, in an effort to get some real use out of them, than to hold them back and hope they dont find a way to fight back against his control more effectively later.

You raise a couple of good points (that we shouldn't have to explain for ourselves, but still). But this. If DJ just wants to throw away the other archmagi as cannon fodder, why not throw all five (four? six? whatever) of them against the same opponent? He might be able to *gasp* kill a protagonist!

[Trazoi]

Before I get too far into discussing "DJ's plan", let me state that I get the strong impression that Mookie hasn't given him one. All DJ does is occasionally pop up for an act of generic villainy to make it look like he's up to something, but the reasoning is all made up post-action. Eventually Mookie will pull most of it together for some silly reason like DJ gaining "ultimate power" or whatever, but for now "DJ's plan" is do enough evil stuff to masquerade as a plot.

For example, right now I'm fairly sure Mookie's thinking started with wanting the archmages to attack everyone at this moment because it's a "twist", and he's put in that they're under mind control to give Deegans a way out from certain death and to tie it into the plot. I would be surprised if he's figured out why DJ's done this, other than "because he's evil". (And we might get another twist where the Archmage of the Fifth Circle turns out to be someone else entirely, because the way they say that is weird.)

Its true we dont know what djs plan is, but its fairly safe to say that the archmages are going to be against it, since his ally did kill murray.

Actually at the time it looked a lot like the archmages were in on killing Murray, since they weren't all that fussed with defeating the Beast. That the archmages are against DJ's plan is actually a new twist.

The deegans are also openly against his plans, even though we dont know what it is. By sending one group of beings that are against him against another group, he doesnt risk losing any of his people, and he weakens the other side. It is really immaterial what his actual plan is, at its most basic, he is quite effectively weakening the other side without risking any of his pieces.

DJ's plan is important because the smart action depends on what is the greatest threat. Is it Dominic? Miranda? The Lost Treasure of Luana? The archmages?

If the mind-control is likely to be short-lived, then it doesn't make any sense for the archmages to want to commit suicide at the first possible opportunity. The king is taking a really stupid risk here. What if Mantis Mage and Tapeworm Mage survived their missions and then broke free? The king's got a bunch of angry archmages right on his doorstep who now knows what he's up to. In this scenario, much better for the king to use the period of mental confusion to kill off all the archmages efficiently rather than use them as disposable pawns in a chess game where they have a good chance of reverting to being enemy queens.

The problem with sending the local guard is that dom IS a seer. There are protections against seers, we have seen them, (once each then never again, but still) archmages are going to be among those who can manage to strike at a seer without being spotted beforehand. Some random schlub constable is not. We may not SEE dom setting up defenses or checking for incoming attackers on a regular basis, but that doesnt mean he isnt.

You're thinking like Mookie, not a king with a plan. Again, this is where it depends what DJ's plan is and what threat Dominic is. The point is not to kill Dominic but to neutralise him. If Dom resists arrest or runs, then he's clearly got something to hide. Who's going to trust whatever an outlaw has to say about the king? In the meantime Dom's on the run and not able to do as much, the King looks squeaky clean, and then Dom can have an unfortunate meeting with a Blinder assassin somewhere far from the public's eye.

DJ has been "making his move" since before the deegans were even aware he was involved, so its not like dom is going to say, "Oh wow, I guess the king has finally started to target us, he must be up to something."

That's exactly what he's going to do, because Dom is just as bad at being a protagonist as the king an antagonist. If he wasn't reminded about the plot, Dom would spend the rest of the year yacking about his wedding with Rachel.

[Welf]

Because either way he wins. If the archmages kill the deegans crew, then that threat is removed. If the deegans kill the archmages, thats one less group of people with the power to oppose him. If some deegans and mages both die, then both sides are weakened, and may be unwilling to work together. Even if the absolute worst had occured, and the deegans through the magical might of marysueishness had freed the mages from mind control, he still wouldnt have been any worse off. So dj could not lose with this plan.

That sounds reasonable, except for one thing: Dominic is the master of breaking mind-control. The "See the truth" spell is his signature spell. So he sent a only partly controlled archmage against the guy who is most likely to free him.
There might be reasons to do this: Dominic is not really the target, but his mother. DJ sent a extreme danger to Dominic, so his second sight wouldn't warn him about the deadly threat to his mother. Like Celesto back in the day, when villains had actual plans and did stuff. Or he uses Snuggly's out-worldly powers, which are immune to normal magic.
Of course neither will be the reason.

[Myrdhale]

.... I doubt Mookie is this smart. I really do. But... say he does have total control over the Mages. He's having them act as though they are fighting his power so Dom and Co will believe them.

His real goal is to get dominic to do whatever the prophecy about 'the heart of magic' is, release that power, and then take it for himself. Kinda like what Gannondorf did after Link opened the Temple of Time.

[random11]

I don't even why the plan matters any more.

The entire plan, whatever it is, is completely irrelevant to everything we had in the past years. What's the point of having arch mages, and outer-planner horrors if they have no contact with the hero?

There is a common trope about a guy being dragged into a fight that is WAY over his league. Sometimes he will use street wise resources, sometimes he will discover his true heritage, and maybe he'll enter a training montage with one of the other good guys.
Whatever happens, he will slowly adapt to the new enemies and act accordingly.

I understand that Dominic needs to slowly enter the battle since a king who is also an arch mage is involved. but how slow?!

It's been over a year since Dominic was attacked by the beast and discovered Muri is dead, a lot more if you count the previous attacks.
Ever since then, the main heroes of the story were completely irrelevant.

I don't know what the hell happened in the sword scry arc, but Dominic completely forgot his own plan to break in the kings wards.
In the art twin arc, the heroes accidently stumbled on one of the minor plans, and this part too didn't have any long run consequences.
Then we moved to two other protagonists, who again, unintentionally stumbled on the enemy arch mages.
Jayden's task was mostly ignored and the entire battle just happened around her, and Stunt didn't even take his own task seriously (and why should he? taking an easy ride in an airship home does not count as a quest).

If Rillian, the arch mages, the king and Miranda are the main story characters, let them be the main characters, and if you insist to tell the story from a different perspective, make sure the protagonists either do something meaningful, or at the very least learn something about the main battle!

The thing that we have here, which I refuse to call it "a story" is a bunch of pointless things happening without any connection to a plot.

[Myrdhale]

I don't even why the plan matters any more.

The entire plan, whatever it is, is completely irrelevant to everything we had in the past years. What's the point of having arch mages, and outer-planner horrors if they have no contact with the hero?

There is a common trope about a guy being dragged into a fight that is WAY over his league. Sometimes he will use street wise resources, sometimes he will discover his true heritage, and maybe he'll enter a training montage with one of the other good guys.
Whatever happens, he will slowly adapt to the new enemies and act accordingly.

I understand that Dominic needs to slowly enter the battle since a king who is also an arch mage is involved. but how slow?!

It's been over a year since Dominic was attacked by the beast and discovered Muri is dead, a lot more if you count the previous attacks.
Ever since then, the main heroes of the story were completely irrelevant.

I don't know what the hell happened in the sword scry arc, but Dominic completely forgot his own plan to break in the kings wards.
In the art twin arc, the heroes accidently stumbled on one of the minor plans, and this part too didn't have any long run consequences.
Then we moved to two other protagonists, who again, unintentionally stumbled on the enemy arch mages.
Jayden's task was mostly ignored and the entire battle just happened around her, and Stunt didn't even take his own task seriously (and why should he? taking an easy ride in an airship home does not count as a quest).

If Rillian, the arch mages, the king and Miranda are the main story characters, let them be the main characters, and if you insist to tell the story from a different perspective, make sure the protagonists either do something meaningful, or at the very least learn something about the main battle!

The thing that we have here, which I refuse to call it "a story" is a bunch of pointless things happening without any connection to a plot.

Actually, yeah, this is a good point. Whether or not the King's plan makes any sense, this is terrible story telling, everything important is happening off screen and the characters we are focusing on are just lucking into anything important they happen to do. it's pretty bad.

[Trazoi]

His real goal is to get dominic to do whatever the prophecy about 'the heart of magic' is, release that power, and then take it for himself. Kinda like what Gannondorf did after Link opened the Temple of Time.

It's the sort of thing Mookie might throw in because it's a very common element, but I doubt Mookie can come up with a believable prophecy that exclusively requires someone from Team Dominic and not anyone else that DJ could use. And if Mookie makes Luna the Chosen One again, there ought to be a law to permanently disqualify him from writing.

The thing that we have here, which I refuse to call it "a story" is a bunch of pointless things happening without any connection to a plot.

Dominic has turned "Refusal of the Call" into an artform. Yet somehow Mookie keeps writing as if he's the great hero.

[Mr. McGician]

Dominic has turned "Refusal of the Call" into an artform. Yet somehow Mookie keeps writing as if he's the great hero.

What I find hilarious is how Celesto was portrayed as insane, when he's actually the only sane person we've seen in a while. He was the only one who was actually doing something, while everyone else, including the villains, was just sitting around or getting distracted by meaningless trifles. And not only was he the only person trying to accomplish something, but he was also the only person who actually has accomplished anything. Too bad the "heroes" took all the credit, after deliberately trying to stop him and failing.

[Trazoi]

What I find hilarious is how Celesto was portrayed as insane, when he's actually the only sane person we've seen in a while.

My favourite part of that is the only reason Celesto lost it was because he was forced to spend so long fighting the Beast, both when he was locked in a dungeon and then on the run from all of DJ's forces. Meanwhile Dominic took an extended holiday in Maltak and then headed back to resume his everyday life. Celesto ends up giving everything he has, right up to his sanity, fighting the Beast, while Dominic's inability to get over his childhood hangups ends up convincing Luna to give up her fertility.

And the final confrontation of that story, Dominic accuses Celesto of "doing too much", orders his braining, everyone declares Dom the hero, and then Dom ignores everything once again and heads off to get married.

Dom's a classic "false hero", the character in folktales that turns up to claim the credit after the true hero does all the work, except in Mookie's stories the false hero always wins.

[Zaq]

My favourite part of that is the only reason Celesto lost it was because he was forced to spend so long fighting the Beast, both when he was locked in a dungeon and then on the run from all of DJ's forces. Meanwhile Dominic took an extended holiday in Maltak and then headed back to resume his everyday life. Celesto ends up giving everything he has, right up to his sanity, fighting the Beast, while Dominic's inability to get over his childhood hangups ends up convincing Luna to give up her fertility.

And the final confrontation of that story, Dominic accuses Celesto of "doing too much", orders his braining, everyone declares Dom the hero, and then Dom ignores everything once again and heads off to get married.

Dom's a classic "false hero", the character in folktales that turns up to claim the credit after the true hero does all the work, except in Mookie's stories the false hero always wins.

I still can't get over how jarring that damn strip is. Dominic is such a monster. I need a stronger word than "monster." It's unbelievable.

If only the comic would shift gears, focus on everything wrong with Dominic, and have the rest of the cast react naturally to, well, everything Trazoi mentioned here, it would be downright fascinating. There's potential there. It just takes someone who's not Mookie to draw it out.

[Veridis Quo]

Its true we dont know what djs plan is, but its fairly safe to say that the archmages are going to be against it, since his ally did kill murray. The deegans are also openly against his plans, even though we dont know what it is. [snip]

I think that sentence sums up the problem with this whole situation though. We have idea what DJ's plan is or what areas it encompasses. So we don't even know if the archmages were against it, or just caught in the crossfire. We don't know if only the Deegans would stand a chance at opposing it. We have virtually no information at all. We can only speculate about a plan that has no frame of reference. All we can do is hope that Mookie is able to tie it all together in a satisfying way. And given Mookie's track record on satisfying resolutions that prospect is looking rather slim.

The thing that we have here, which I refuse to call it "a story" is a bunch of pointless things happening without any connection to a plot.

I agree. At the end of the day DD is an excercise in osmosis. Mookie observes an idea in some other place, finds it interesting and decides "hey, let's put this in the story". This isn't a bad thing per se, but what he rarely does is try to:

1) understand what made that particular moment have it's meaning and
2) Try to create that same sense of (buildup => Payoff) so the moment just exist in a vacuum with no context or meaning.

We see it in his art, his story, and he even confirms some of these moments in his own news blog. It still is a story in that a sequence of events are being relayed to us. But thats all it is, a sequence of events. He is missing the vital component of tying them all together in a meaninful way.

For Example, one thing I really liked about DD was the idea of combat between two opposing seers. Not only did you have to outthink your opponent but you had to find different ways of keeping tabs on them. So naturally you'll find newer and more elaborate ways of scrying on them to do this. That opens up the floodgates of possibilities to handle this and DD does take advantage of this to an extent (read: Everything leading up to the Storm of Souls). But then the realization hits you that once the Dave Xanatos levels of fore planning have passed, its going to be a one way street to DBZ beam spam land. So the excitement is very short and very shallow.

Nowadays scrying is something of a joke because only the villian seems to be actively trying to keep himself obfuscated from the Deegans. King DJ has a massive network of battlemages patrolling the astral realm monitoring every attempt to scry or communicate through the realm. He has powerful warding spells to protect his home castle from being spied upon with only one breach that we are aware of. He's proven that at the very least he is willing to protect himself at all costs and our great "hero" Dominic didn't even bother to throw a blanket over his Crystal Ball.

It's funny because early DD actually had things like plot progression, character development, and actual consequences to its events. The story wasn't perfect, the art was passable, and sometimes the pacing was agonizingly slow. But it had something resembling a heart to it.
I don't know when DD stopped trying to be better, but the sad truth is that it stopped and man... that's just depressing.

[random11]

And the final confrontation of that story, Dominic accuses Celesto of "doing too much", orders his braining, everyone declares Dom the hero, and then Dom ignores everything once again and heads off to get married.

Dom's a classic "false hero", the character in folktales that turns up to claim the credit after the true hero does all the work, except in Mookie's stories the false hero always wins.

It's not like Celesto's plan in the sword scry arc made sense.

Instead of exposing the king's evil deeds, Celesto tried to make a new crime and somehow cause everyone to believe the king is responsible.
I'm not sure how it was supposed to work, but it did.
And yes, Dominic did end up taking credit for it.

[Traab]

For Example, one thing I really liked about DD was the idea of combat between two opposing seers. Not only did you have to outthink your opponent but you had to find different ways of keeping tabs on them. So naturally you'll find newer and more elaborate ways of scrying on them to do this. That opens up the floodgates of possibilities to handle this and DD does take advantage of this to an extent (read: Everything leading up to the Storm of Souls). But then the realization hits you that once the Dave Xanatos levels of fore planning have passed, its going to be a one way street to DBZ beam spam land. So the excitement is very short and very shallow.

I actually read a story that had this happen. It wasnt two seers, but in the last books of the spellsong cycle, the main character is constantly coming up with counters to spells that havent even been used yet, because she cant afford to leave herself vulnerable, and every time she uses something new against her opponent to get around HIS defenses, she has to come up with a defense against it in case the enemy figures out how to do it himself. Its a constant chess match and an escalating arms race that ends... rather brilliantly. (you will get the pun if you read the entire series. )

[Myrdhale]

My favourite part of that is the only reason Celesto lost it was because he was forced to spend so long fighting the Beast, both when he was locked in a dungeon and then on the run from all of DJ's forces. Meanwhile Dominic took an extended holiday in Maltak and then headed back to resume his everyday life. Celesto ends up giving everything he has, right up to his sanity, fighting the Beast, while Dominic's inability to get over his childhood hangups ends up convincing Luna to give up her fertility.

And the final confrontation of that story, Dominic accuses Celesto of "doing too much", orders his braining, everyone declares Dom the hero, and then Dom ignores everything once again and heads off to get married.

Dom's a classic "false hero", the character in folktales that turns up to claim the credit after the true hero does all the work, except in Mookie's stories the false hero always wins.

I'm always amazed at how Mookie can write these stories and find them in anyway satisfying in their resolution.

[Traab]

My favourite part of that is the only reason Celesto lost it was because he was forced to spend so long fighting the Beast, both when he was locked in a dungeon and then on the run from all of DJ's forces. Meanwhile Dominic took an extended holiday in Maltak and then headed back to resume his everyday life. Celesto ends up giving everything he has, right up to his sanity, fighting the Beast, while Dominic's inability to get over his childhood hangups ends up convincing Luna to give up her fertility.

And the final confrontation of that story, Dominic accuses Celesto of "doing too much", orders his braining, everyone declares Dom the hero, and then Dom ignores everything once again and heads off to get married.

Dom's a classic "false hero", the character in folktales that turns up to claim the credit after the true hero does all the work, except in Mookie's stories the false hero always wins.

I do agree to an extent, but I think your hatred of DD is slanting things a bit. Celesto WAS doing too much. He had pretty much lost his mind, was setting up who knows how many innocents to die, and was willing to kill anyone in his path to make his single minded goal come to pass. Im not saying Dom isnt a lazy moron who isnt doing much of anything, because he IS a lazy moron that doesnt do much of anything, but celeto was hardly some poor innocent, beaten up unfairly. He was a crazy murderous bastard who had to be stopped before it was too late.

[T-O-E]

You know what gets me? When Luna talks about Celesto, she says "he's too far gone to help us." Not, "he's too far gone for us to help." It is such a callous thing to say, it epitomises everything that's wrong with the main characters' mentality.

Oh, and Greg is a hero for braining the mentally unstable person, currently pacifiied person with a guitar re: metal. Because he blew up Barthis and blasted Dominic's leg off. For the first one, I'm pretty sure that was TIM's doing and Celesto was trying to stop him. For the latter, well, ok, but vengeance is not a good trait Mookie. It was even pre-meditated because Greg had planned to do this from the start. You have to call him out on it.

I want a Celesto webcomic now..

[Veridis Quo]

I want a Celesto webcomic now..

A comic from his perspective might be nice. Image his descent from an angry and bitter seer who just saw the love of his life strangled with her own neckless. He's aware that he's not a good guy in this but frustrated that the world will now paint her as a monster while the real monster goes scott free (I'm looking at you pre SEE THE TRUTH Szark)

He's tempted by power and revenge to join up with the chosen, but is eventually and thoroughly defeated by Dominic in the elemecca. He suffers hellish nightmares and tortures only to escape with a new lease on life and his actions. He seeks to amend his mistakes and serve the side of good, not aware that the corruptions of the beast have already taken root in him.

Celesto may have been a jerk before he was forced into the Elemecca, but after he came out he had someone riding shotgun in his mind convincing him that his same violent approach to everything would still work. After the Oracle hunter incident he realizes that he's losing control to something and tries to maintain his sense of self only to slip time and time again. Culminating in Dominic forcing him to stand alone against the same force that tortured him not one year prior (DD time)

With no backup and no means of fighting the bully seer Dominic Celesto becomes desperate to end this conflict. In this desperation he slips again but too far this time and the fragment of the beast within him causes his mind to literally split. He still has the goal of revealing the king's deeds to the world, but now he's become convinced that he must become the beast in order to get everyone to believe it is real. He attacks Chance masters and the art gallery before having his mind pushed back together. In his weakened state he regains his cognition and realizes not only the nature of his mental disorder, but a way to remove it and help Dominic save the day. He is just about to attempt contact for the last time to apologize to Dominic and plead forgiveness for his insanity. Hoping the Dominic still has a second chance waiting for him when suddenly his room's door is kicked open.

*CRACK*

He blacks out as a guitar collides with his skull, cracking it and sending him into unconsciousness...as his mind fades to black he can't even whisper out a faint and pleading "why?". Greg stands over him, bloody guitar in hand and anger on his mind. Uncaring for the already broken and defeated man laying on the ground before him. Momgan places Celesto into a magical coma and traps him; removing any chance that he would be able to recover in time to help them or himself.

He may be a violent anti-hero with a flimsy moral compass. But in the face of the apocalypse he stood alone against the tide and fell. Celesto Morgan: Oracle for Hire!

[random11]

I do agree to an extent, but I think your hatred of DD is slanting things a bit. Celesto WAS doing too much. He had pretty much lost his mind, was setting up who knows how many innocents to die, and was willing to kill anyone in his path to make his single minded goal come to pass. Im not saying Dom isnt a lazy moron who isnt doing much of anything, because he IS a lazy moron that doesnt do much of anything, but celeto was hardly some poor innocent, beaten up unfairly. He was a crazy murderous bastard who had to be stopped before it was too late.

He had to be stopped, but with a guitar on the head?
If it was anyone else, Dominic would have struggled to save him from the mind control.

I'll find it very ironic if the archmages (including his mother) were corrupted in a similar way.

[Traab]

He had to be stopped, but with a guitar on the head?
If it was anyone else, Dominic would have struggled to save him from the mind control.

I'll find it very ironic if the archmages (including his mother) were corrupted in a similar way.

Well sure, greg could hsve used his white magi- oh wait, he doesnt have any of that. The Beast tore it out of him. Maybe he could have used his extensive martial arts trai- oh wait, he was a fricking cripple up until about a year before he lost his white magic. What was he supposed to do to stop the insanely dangerous seer who is out to kill anyone that gets in his way? Sing him a lullaby? Oh wait, he did, with an electric guitar to the skull. A knockout blow is hardly some horrific injury when you have white mages and such that can heal virtually anything. Its not like greg spent 5 minutes beating celesto to the brink of death before knocking him out. No, BLAM, one shot, he is out, the danger is passed.

[Trazoi]

I do agree to an extent, but I think your hatred of DD is slanting things a bit. Celesto WAS doing too much. He had pretty much lost his mind, was setting up who knows how many innocents to die, and was willing to kill anyone in his path to make his single minded goal come to pass. Im not saying Dom isnt a lazy moron who isnt doing much of anything, because he IS a lazy moron that doesnt do much of anything, but celeto was hardly some poor innocent, beaten up unfairly. He was a crazy murderous bastard who had to be stopped before it was too late.

Celesto was crazy and murderous at that point and his plans made no sense, and stopping him was sensible. The issue is that Celesto got that way because he was doing too much, and he was doing too much because Dominic was doing nothing at all.

If Dom has said something apologetic like "I'm sorry it had to come to this" before telling Greg to subdue him, and then dedicated himself to more intelligent ways to stopping the Beast, then it would have made sense as a heroic protagonist. Instead, he's all "Now your guard is down. I am superior." And then he goes off to get married and let Rilian pick up the slack.

[Veridis Quo]

I do agree to an extent, but I think your hatred of DD is slanting things a bit. Celesto WAS doing too much. He had pretty much lost his mind, was setting up who knows how many innocents to die, and was willing to kill anyone in his path to make his single minded goal come to pass. Im not saying Dom isnt a lazy moron who isnt doing much of anything, because he IS a lazy moron that doesnt do much of anything, but celeto was hardly some poor innocent, beaten up unfairly. He was a crazy murderous bastard who had to be stopped before it was too late.

I'll agree to pretty much all of this. Celesto was always portrayed as an individual who dealt almost exclusively in absolutes and excess.

1) To him someone or a group of people are either good or bad with no gray area
-(Taggery and the other jocks).

2) The maximum amount of force must be applied to solve a problem
-Again when Taggery goes ASPLODE, and when he agreed to use the Storm of souls to wipe out all of Callan.

3) Believes that helping someone requires destroying someone else in the process.
-Massive property damage and casualties in Snowsong,
Attempting to mentally and spiritually break Barnet in Oracle Hunter to appease Dominic,
Killing Chance Masters in the tournament to prove the existence of the beast, etc.

He has and always will be a 90's era antihero who uses violence hatred over diplomacy and compassion. That's part of his appeal.
But I agree that his actions tried to do too much with too great a risk/cost.

But compare his actions and responses to Dominic's regarding the Beast given context. Last time we saw him, Dominic had literally forced him to defend against the beast all by himself. Dominic then went on to focus on his love life, personal friendships, and NOT actively work out a contigency plan. Leaving that to his mother and other outside parties.

We had already seen that some form of magical corruption was beginning to take over his mind hence the "I am me" mantra he developed. Celesto was unbalanced and clearly losing control and now he has to defend the realm against both the King and the extraplanar horror he was already trapped with in the Elemecca. He got desperate and his mind and control over his dark side began to slip.

I got the impression that the Celesto that attacked the tournament and arthouse was possibly insane or delusional from his recent escape from the king's clutches. That is not a justification of his actions, just an explanation of them. He needed help in a bad way.
I can't fault Dominic from reacting negatively after this man has tried to kill him and his loved ones on so many occasions. But ask yourself this, would having Celesto just recieve a K.O punch from Greg be any different from hitting him with a guitar?

The answer is yes, what needed to happen was for someone to finally stop Celesto's rampage and get him the help he needed. Gred doesn't need to know martial arts, or use his white magic to do that. All he needed to do was knock out a guy who was already injured to the point that he was bleeding from his mouth. A guitar is excessive, a simple uppercut or jab to the face would have done that.

What mookie did was try to creat a scene that was both ironic and funny while still trying to communicate that Celesto was officially no longer a threat. He got the funny right to a degree, but the writing makes it seem like the Deegans, our heroes are:
-Selfish ("Celesto is too far gone to help us")
- Vindictive (Again a guitar to the head is excessive force for an already injured person)
- and Cruel (Forcing him into the position he was in in the first place, locking him away without anyone elses knowledge and seemingly not addressing the obvious corruption that has occured)

When the heroes come across as more amoral than the antagonists there is a problem.

[Traab]

Celesto was crazy and murderous at that point and his plans made no sense, and stopping him was sensible. The issue is that Celesto got that way because he was doing too much, and he was doing too much because Dominic was doing nothing at all.

If Dom has said something apologetic like "I'm sorry it had to come to this" before telling Greg to subdue him, and then dedicated himself to more intelligent ways to stopping the Beast, then it would have made sense as a heroic protagonist. Instead, he's all "Now your guard is down. I am superior." And then he goes off to get married and let Rilian pick up the slack.

Oh I agree, the only reason things got that bad is because celesto was the only one doing anything, and dom SHOULD have felt some gorram SHAME about the fact that his obsession with taking care of his personal life and getting sidetracked every week meant celesto was the only one fighting, and so was overwhelmed to the point of madness.

The whole comic is stupid, and I feel dumber every time I read it. I have to run a parallel comic in my mind, one that has a better storyline, and actual explanations for what takes place, just to keep my own insanity at bay. Im pretty sure my teeth have gotten pointy on at least three occasions over the last few months trying to maintain control. I have already ordered the destruction of all guitars in a 30 mile radius just to be safe.

[Acanous]

Oh I agree, the only reason things got that bad is because celesto was the only one doing anything, and dom SHOULD have felt some gorram SHAME about the fact that his obsession with taking care of his personal life and getting sidetracked every week meant celesto was the only one fighting, and so was overwhelmed to the point of madness.

The whole comic is stupid, and I feel dumber every time I read it. I have to run a parallel comic in my mind, one that has a better storyline, and actual explanations for what takes place, just to keep my own insanity at bay. Im pretty sure my teeth have gotten pointy on at least three occasions over the last few months trying to maintain control. I have already ordered the destruction of all guitars in a 30 mile radius just to be safe.

Now you're sounding like Gwyn.

Rock on.

[random11]

Well sure, greg could hsve used his white magi- oh wait, he doesnt have any of that. The Beast tore it out of him. Maybe he could have used his extensive martial arts trai- oh wait, he was a fricking cripple up until about a year before he lost his white magic. What was he supposed to do to stop the insanely dangerous seer who is out to kill anyone that gets in his way? Sing him a lullaby? Oh wait, he did, with an electric guitar to the skull. A knockout blow is hardly some horrific injury when you have white mages and such that can heal virtually anything. Its not like greg spent 5 minutes beating celesto to the brink of death before knocking him out. No, BLAM, one shot, he is out, the danger is passed.

Who said it has to be Greg that stops him? (Why did Greg come AT ALL if he doesn't have any ability that can help?)

Celesto was already in contact with Dominic, so he could have used something to detain him. I's not like the first time magic is used in such weird ways.
If physical contact is required, what about Luna?

Lets say the bash on the head was required, after he was detained why didn't Dominic even TRY to talk to him?

And wasn't he supposed to be brought to the circle magi?

All these flaws are less character flaws, and more author flaws.
Greg was brought for the sole purpose of the "guitar on the head" joke. That's the only reason magic was not used, it's not like there is consistency of magic rules to worry about.
Dominic already gave up on Celesto because Mookie already gave up on him and wanted to move to the next story.
And the meeting between Celesto and the Magi is either connected to what's happening now (and will be described with talking heads), or completely forgotten for the sake of mustache jokes and Miranda's wedding memories.

[Myrdhale]

Is that-?
A series of out of place slapstick hijinks!

You bet it is.

And once again everyone knows about the goddamn lost treasure right off the bat. What, the, ****, Mookie. It's seriously like he's not even trying anymore.

I love how Dom tells Luna the Archmages have gone nuts, when he knows categorically that they are being controlled.

[Humbug]

Hmm, a delayed cliffhanger. So how will our heroes come out of this explosion? Magical Barrier? Illusion? They just walk out somewhat singed?