Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

[tgva8889]

I know a couple people who opened a foil Geist of St. Traft and were upset because they needed Walking Corpses.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Avacyn Restored Spoilers

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Okay, wow...there's been very few cards spoiled in Avacyn Restored that I haven't thought 'I want this!' right away, and that trend has only continued! A new red planeswalker?


Tibalt is interesting to me, if only because he's a very controlly kind of planeswalker...but he's red. He also seems to be the mortal enemy of Tamiyo and his artwork is friggin' amazing. I wonder what's the story behind him, but more importantly, I want him.


Bonfire of the Damned seems...well it didn't seem like much to me at first. But it's grown on me. Between this and Killing Wave, there seems to be a lot of wide-spread creature hate. Maybe it's to counter-balance all the token generators, but that's besides the point, I still like it.

Cathar's Crusade seems like it'd be...well...the ideal card for a token deck, but at 5 CMC it seems a bit pricey...and looks as if it'd have a lot of 'book-keeping' behind it.

Still Tamiyo and Tibalt both have me wanting this set to come out now, even more then the angels do surprisingly enough (And I really want to get my hands on at least two of each of those...).

Here's a spoiler-related question, but one that doesn't require knowledge of the spoiler to answer. What good Auras are there in Standard right now? More specifically, what good Auras are there to attach to your own creatures?

[BobVosh]

What colors? Or just any colors?
Wrath of Giests seems nice, since it is one mana.


So what is the current meta for standard? I only have one day to play FNM and I don't want to be stomped by something popular and cheesey that I don't know.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=239828
This is what I'm currently running (spoiled again below)

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Artifacts
2x Bonehoard
Creatures
2x Jace's Archivist
3x Invisible Stalker
4x Boneyard Wurm
4x Kessig Cagebreakers
4x Splinterfright
4x Dawntreader Elk
1x Ghoultree
Enchantments
3x Wreath of Geists
Land
4x Hinterland Harbor
9x Island
7x Forest
Spells
3x Ponder
2x Visions of Beyond
2x Forbidden Alchemy
2x Spider Spawning
2x Artful Dodge
2x Tracker's Instincts
Sideboard
4x Sylvok Replica
4x Negate
4x Dissipate
3x Laboratory Maniac

Obviously the laboratory maniacs can go, they are from a very old version where decking myself was a possibility. Any suggestions?

[The Extinguisher]

So I have been tasked with creating a modern deck for under $20.

My first instinct was to work some pauper decks into modern, and I've got Boros and Delver down pretty well, and a Mono-Black rats deck in the works, but I need some other ideas.

Any thoughts?

[BobVosh]

I made a fairly competitive red-black modern discard for just slightly above 20 bucks. Blightning is such an amazing card.

[Callos_DeTerran]

What colors? Or just any colors?
Wrath of Giests seems nice, since it is one mana.

Well, I ask because of one of the new cards in Avacyn Restored.

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Bruna.

Whenever she attacks or blocks, you can move any auras on the field to enchant her, plus you can play Auras from your hand/graveyard. It's an interesting ability I wouldn't mind exploiting somehow, but the how is the problem. What good auras are there in Standard to equip to a flying angel?

Or is this an ability that's going to get a lot more mileage in Legacy/Modern/EDH then in Standard?

[Duos]

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Aaaaaand once again, wizards crushes my dreams for a playable red walker. WHYYYY. Tibalt is terrible. He's just as likely to screw over your hand as he is to net you a good card with his +1, he has no way to protect himself, and he doesn't do anything useful until two turns later, at which point he deals ~4 damage then dies. Do not want.

Oh well. Next set, maybe.

[Ninjaman]

Eh, I've seen much more impressive pulls. I've seen a foil Sorin at the Dark Ascension prerelease, when it was worth $100-200 a pop (and the owner didn't even use sleeves. You could feel all the onlookers wincing when it was shuffled back into the library at the end of the game.), and one ridiculous kid at a draft who opened both Sorin and a foil Snapcaster back to back.

Also, Geist is worth more that $16-20 nowadays. It's at about $25 right now. It's worth more than the boosters.

Yea i am not the kind of absurdly lucky person, but my boosters ussually are worth more than i gave for them. One of my friends asked me to pick his 4 boosters in exchange for 2 uncommon, he got Clifftop retreat and moorland haunt.

I know a couple people who opened a foil Geist of St. Traft and were upset because they needed Walking Corpses.

I would gladly trade with him.

[tgva8889]

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Aaaaaand once again, wizards crushes my dreams for a playable red walker. WHYYYY. Tibalt is terrible. He's just as likely to screw over your hand as he is to net you a good card with his +1, he has no way to protect himself, and he doesn't do anything useful until two turns later, at which point he deals ~4 damage then dies. Do not want.

Oh well. Next set, maybe.

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...You do understand he's a 2 mana Planeswalker, right?

Tibalt is for a more controlling Red deck, and he is subtly powerful. Patrick Chapin has talked at length about how much better Desperate Ravings is than Think Twice. Tibalt lets you turn your draw step into a Ravings instead when you want to. That's a powerful ability, even if not in the raw and obvious way of some other, more expensive Planeswalkers. He's not Liliana or Jace, but he costs 1 less than them. I actually think Tibalt is very interesting, and I look forward to seeing how useful he may or may not prove to be.

Tibalt is a push in an interesting direction. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker that you just jam +1 every turn forever because you can. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker you jam first pick and immediately force his colors. He's a much more complex card. But he is pushed, and pushed hard. 2 mana is very different than 3. I think Tibalt will be a powerful effect to have in Standard.

[Callos_DeTerran]

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...You do understand he's a 2 mana Planeswalker, right?

Tibalt is for a more controlling Red deck, and he is subtly powerful. Patrick Chapin has talked at length about how much better Desperate Ravings is than Think Twice. Tibalt lets you turn your draw step into a Ravings instead when you want to. That's a powerful ability, even if not in the raw and obvious way of some other, more expensive Planeswalkers. He's not Liliana or Jace, but he costs 1 less than them. I actually think Tibalt is very interesting, and I look forward to seeing how useful he may or may not prove to be.

Tibalt is a push in an interesting direction. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker that you just jam +1 every turn forever because you can. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker you jam first pick and immediately force his colors. He's a much more complex card. But he is pushed, and pushed hard. 2 mana is very different than 3. I think Tibalt will be a powerful effect to have in Standard.

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If nothing else, he's a way to get a new card into your hand if you top-decked and played a Miracle card that turn. Sure, you have to discard something in turn (and it's random), but that's not always a bad thing either. Burning Vengeance is sure to get some mileage out of Tibalt, if nothing else.

[Sith_Happens]

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If nothing else, he's a way to get a new card into your hand if you top-decked and played a Miracle card that turn. Sure, you have to discard something in turn (and it's random), but that's not always a bad thing either. Burning Vengeance is sure to get some mileage out of Tibalt, if nothing else.

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So basically, he's a blue planeswalker for RR.

[9mm]

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*note's new plainswalker, doesn't care*
yes he gets some minor breaking of the color wheel to give mono-red some speed. Might find some use in titan ramp but I doubt it.

[Androgeus]

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*note's new plainswalker, doesn't care*
yes he gets some minor breaking of the color wheel to give mono-red some speed. Might find some use in titan ramp but I doubt it.

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What colour pie breakage does he have? all his abilities are red.

[Binks]

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What colour pie breakage does he have? all his abilities are red.

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Yeah, methinks someone missed the 'looting has been moved to red' color pie rearranging from a few years back. Though how you could miss it given how much it's been pushed this block (ravings/faithless) is kind of beyond me.

+1 = Desperate Ravings (1/2)
-4 = Sudden Impact
-6 = Insurrection

He's 3 red cards mashed together. He's definitely not breaking the color pie.

Personally I'm not a huge fan, but then again I don't like looting and am more of a casual Johnny, so he's not really built for me. He looks to be a spike-y planeswalker, which I'm cool with. Probably will trade away if I pull him, but at least he should trade well.

Bonfire is interesting to me because it's a miracle card that has a lot of tension about using the miracle. If you want to get a big X then you really want to miracle it, but if you're looking to wipe the opponent's board of tokens you might be better off waiting to your second main to get whatever they flash in during combat. The hard cast cost seems very balanced to me, XXR to hit every creature an opponent controls is great against tokens (3 mana board wipe?) and other weenie decks (5 mana board wipes?) but the miracle cost makes it usable all the way up to titans if you get lucky (can you say 7 mana to kill grave titan and all the zombies he's made, any other creatures they have, as well as dealing 6 to your opponent? Not a bad effect at all). It's an interesting card.

[Duos]

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...You do understand he's a 2 mana Planeswalker, right?

Tibalt is for a more controlling Red deck, and he is subtly powerful. Patrick Chapin has talked at length about how much better Desperate Ravings is than Think Twice. Tibalt lets you turn your draw step into a Ravings instead when you want to. That's a powerful ability, even if not in the raw and obvious way of some other, more expensive Planeswalkers. He's not Liliana or Jace, but he costs 1 less than them. I actually think Tibalt is very interesting, and I look forward to seeing how useful he may or may not prove to be.

Tibalt is a push in an interesting direction. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker that you just jam +1 every turn forever because you can. He isn't the kind of Planeswalker you jam first pick and immediately force his colors. He's a much more complex card. But he is pushed, and pushed hard. 2 mana is very different than 3. I think Tibalt will be a powerful effect to have in Standard.

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The biggest difference is that Desperate Ravings nets you two cards total over its casting and flashback, and digs four cards deep. Tibalt gives you ZERO card advantage by himself, and I would like to stress that he has no way of protecting himself, which, if you will note, is something that nearly every single good planeswalker does. And again, he doesn't DO anything other than muck up your hand for two turns. His -4 is unlikely to do any serious damage against anybody who isn't control, and control just boards in Purges. And his -6 won't ever go off unless you have superior board presence, in which case, since you're playing red, why are they not dead yet? I just don't see him having any meaningful impact.

[AgentPaper]

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The biggest difference is that Desperate Ravings nets you two cards total over its casting and flashback, and digs four cards deep. Tibalt gives you ZERO card advantage by himself, and I would like to stress that he has no way of protecting himself, which, if you will note, is something that nearly every single good planeswalker does. And again, he doesn't DO anything other than muck up your hand for two turns. His -4 is unlikely to do any serious damage against anybody who isn't control, and control just boards in Purges. And his -6 won't ever go off unless you have superior board presence, in which case, since you're playing red, why are they not dead yet? I just don't see him having any meaningful impact.

I think the idea is that he protects himself by coming out before most stuff that would threaten him, and that he leaves your mana up in later turns so you can cast other things that protect him.

He's certainly not a 'walker for jamming into any deck you can find because of his raw power. That seems to be what planeswalkers have become recently, and this is a step in a different direction. You really can't compare him directly to the "good" planeswalkers we've gotten used to, because he's pretty clearly not designed to fill their shoes.

As to what exactly that role is and how well he fulfills it, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Callos_DeTerran]

HEre's a question for EDH deck building and one that might require a bit of thought...how many 'doomsday devices' cards are there in Magic? I want to cram as many of them as possible into my EDH deck (it fits a theme, albeit an odd one, trust me) but so far I only know of three 'natural' doomsday devices. Lux Cannon, Legacy Weapon, and Titan Forge.

I have another in Sun Titan+Darksteel Plate+Planar Collapse, but that's only a doomsday device in that it sets up a Godzilla Threshold on the board that wipes it clean if there's more then four creatures (besides my Sun Titan anyway).

I suppose Worldslayer fits the bill as well, but that's a doomsday trigger that affects me as well so naturally I'm a little less happy with that. So how about it Magic thread? What doomsday devices do you know of in Magic?

[flabort]

Avacyn Discussion:

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Well, due to my recent time on Salvation, I have become really interested in Mono Red Control. Yeah, this interest has been sparked by a custom card, sure, but should I see Tibalt in a draft, or anywhere, I'm taking him. No questions asked.
2 mana walker that can control all creatures? White Weenie, Green Aggro, and all that, bow before your master.

Meanwhile, I want to discuss the recent winner of You make the card, here on GitP. Overgrown Shrine, by DMofDarkness.

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Overgrown Shrine
Land - MR
When you control three or more Land Creatures, you may transform Overgrown Shrine.
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Use this mana only to activate the abilities of lands you control.
//////////////////////
Temple of Gaia
Legendary Land
Land Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Non-Creature Lands you control may activate their abilities without paying their mana costs.
{T}: Target land you control becomes a 2/2 Green Land Creature. (This effect lasts indefinitely)

He said he found himself trying to build a deck around it. Well, so am I. Whoop.
I'm going to start with this card, 4 copies, to try and get it (though not play more than one copy, lest all transform ).
And Crystal Quarry. 3 copies. Because once this transforms, Crystal Quarry is 5 mana, for 0.
Gonna need some manlands. Mishra's Factory works, though it's kind of costy. Stalking Stones is better, and cheaper. Also going to pick up Raging Ravine, Stirring Wildwood, and Treetop Village. Going to take just 2 of each.
Also going to want a way to turn other lands into creatures. Living Lands seems just right. May cost a buck or two, but worth it. Four of those would work. 2 Genju of the Cedars' seem quite nice. And if we don't already have crystal quarry out when Overgrown Shrine transforms, not trying for Genju of the Realm would be dumb. We'll include 2 of them. And 2 Vastwood Zendikons, which just so happen to be able to be cast for WUBRG, due to it's 4G cost.

Right, what do we have so far?

Creatures (0)
0x anything
Artifacts (0)
0x anything
Enchantments/sorceries/instants (10)
4x Living Lands
2x Genju of the Cedars
2x Genju of the Real,
2x Vastwood Zendikons
Anything else, besides lands (0)
0x anything
Lands (13+?)
?x Forest
4x Overgrown Shrine//Temple of Gaia
3x Crystal Quarry
?x Mishras Factory
?x Stalking Stones
2x Raging Ravine
2x Stirring Wildwood
2x Treetop Village

Well, that's a nice start. Since we'll have atleast 1 reliable WUBRG, let's include 2 Fist of Suns, which I was planning on all along. Since we'll fill out with Forests, we have all the lands we need now, so it's time for some Aggro, accel, and tutoring/deck searching. Fyndhorn Elves can get costly, but not terribly so. And the value of acceleration it provides is almost all we need for accel. Whirling Dervish is a small creature that can get huge. The famous Llurgoyf will find it's place in this deck (graveyard counting, in aggro? Nice). 4 of each of those three is sufficient. Let's include 3 giant growths, too.
Lets put in 2 Child of Alaras. Try to see the advantage of having a cheap source of WUBRG, plus having most of your creatures being lands, and destroying just "nonland"s. And while it's probably one of the most expensive cards I've linked so far, it would really scare the... uh... the uh... Everything out of an opponent that you'd keep everything, while they'd be stuck with just... land. No artifacts, no creatures, enchantments, anything. IF they tried to get rid of it.
It would be nice to include a certain hydra god costing WWUUBBRRGG... but Progenitus costs about $10-20. So we won't. We'll include Maelstrom Archangel instead. 2 copies. Which is more costly than Child of Alara, but still not $10 each yet. Allosaurus Riders are dangerously strong in a deck where your key resource is always going to be lands. Let's put 3 in. We can use Fist of Suns to grab Artisan of Kozilek easy. And it can cast Autochthon Wurm easy, too. Actually, that's quite terrifying. We'll include 2 each of those 2.
And we still need extra draw, or land-play. Borderland Ranger helps with finding forests for us. 3 copies of it go in. I'm taking 4 Caravan Vigils, and casting them after combat. By including Centaur Rootcaster, I make the opponent worry about trying to block, every turn. Despite the price, 2 Collective Voyages would really help; Yes, they get lands, too, but if they are greedy, I get to be too.

How much is that so far?

Creatures (26+?)
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Whirling Dervish
4x Llurgoyf
2x Child of Alara
2x Maelstrom Archangel
3x Allosaurus Riders
2x Artisan of Kozilek
2x Autochthon Wurm
3x Borderland Ranger
?x Centaur Rootcaster
Artifacts (2)
2x Fist of Suns
Enchantments/sorceries/instants (19)
4x Living Lands
2x Genju of the Cedars
2x Genju of the Realm
2x Vastwood Zendikons
4x Caravan Vigil
2x Collective voyage
3x Giant Growth
Anything else, besides lands (0)
0x anything
Lands (13+?)
?x Forest
4x Overgrown Shrine//Temple of Gaia
3x Crystal Quarry
?x Mishras Factory
?x Stalking Stones
2x Raging Ravine
2x Stirring Wildwood
2x Treetop Village

So that's 45 non lands, 13 lands, plus a couple more nonlands and however many lands. Gotta cut down.
We don't need as many giant growths/living lands. We don't need as many shrines (3 will do). Some creatures can be cut; the dervish and goyf have too many. We only need one giant wurm. We can reduce the number of Allosaurus Riders we have. Genju of the Realms is lowered. We can cut a zendicon. And remove the wildwoods and ravines.

Then we can decide how many of each "?" we want. I'd say 2 rootcasters, 2 factories, 1 stalking stones, and 10 forests.

Creatures (23)
4x Fyndhorn Elves
2x Whirling Dervish
3x Llurgoyf
2x Child of Alara
2x Maelstrom Archangel
2x Allosaurus Riders
2x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Autochthon Wurm
3x Borderland Ranger
2x Centaur Rootcaster
Artifacts (2)
2x Fist of Suns
Enchantments/sorceries/instants (14)
2x Living Lands
2x Genju of the Cedars
1x Genju of the Realm
1x Vastwood Zendikons
4x Caravan Vigil
2x Collective voyage
2x Giant Growth
Anything else, besides lands (0)
0x anything
Lands (11+10)
10x Forest
3x Overgrown Shrine//Temple of Gaia
3x Crystal Quarry
2x Mishras Factory
1x Stalking Stones
2x Treetop Village

23+2+14+11+10=25+25+10=50+10=60

Yes, this was silly of me. I created a deck centering around a made-up card. But I enjoyed it.

[Frankelshtein]

What doomsday devices do you know of in Magic?

Darksteel Reactor springs to mind. It'll draw a lot of hate, though.

The Fifth Dawn Station cycle is pretty fun. They can make combos with other cards fairly easily, but also work if you have all four of them out at once. Makes for a fun "Assembling the Doomsday Device" feel.

And let's not forget the most terrifying doomsday device in all of Magic. The card that inspires fear in players everywhere. The single most powerful force in the multiverse. That's right. Myr Battlesphere

[Androgeus]

The Fifth Dawn Station cycle is pretty fun. They can make combos with other cards fairly easily, but also work if you have all four of them out at once. Makes for a fun "Assembling the Doomsday Device" feel.

Doesn't the art line up on that cycle for extra assembly bonus?

[tgva8889]

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The biggest difference is that Desperate Ravings nets you two cards total over its casting and flashback, and digs four cards deep. Tibalt gives you ZERO card advantage by himself, and I would like to stress that he has no way of protecting himself, which, if you will note, is something that nearly every single good planeswalker does. And again, he doesn't DO anything other than muck up your hand for two turns. His -4 is unlikely to do any serious damage against anybody who isn't control, and control just boards in Purges. And his -6 won't ever go off unless you have superior board presence, in which case, since you're playing red, why are they not dead yet? I just don't see him having any meaningful impact.

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Jace Beleren was an amazing Planeswalker who protected himself very poorly, only doing so by being bigger than most of the threats he was likely to face. He was an important card for blue decks before the printing of the far better and clearly broken Mind Sculptor, and after his banning was still around, drawing cards.

Turning your draw step into Desperate Ravings instead is not a non-bonus. It's not a card advantage bonus, no, but it adds card selection. It's still irrelevant. When comparing Think Twice to Desperate Ravings, there is no card advantage change, but there is a great card selection difference. Similarly, comparing a normal draw step to one without Tibalt is a comparison on a card selection level.

You're comparing Desperate Ravings to Tibalt. I am not, and for the obvious reason of "these cards don't do the same thing" as you have demonstrated. I am comparing Tibalt to a normal draw step in the same way Think Twice is compared to Desperate Ravings and showing that Tibalt's ability is a beneficial one to have.

Aren't you winning if they spend Celestial Purge on Tibalt? He isn't going to kill them, as you've so stated. I fail to see the issue with this problem. If Tibalt is your only red permanent, for example, boarding in Celestial Purge is probably just wrong (by your assertion of this card being terrible).

A slow, controlling red deck may not be throwing tons of damage at its opponents. A slow, controlling red deck could very well put an Insurrection to good use. And by the same token, if your red deck is doing that, how much extra damage do you need to get out of his second ability? 2? 4? If you play him on turn 2, it isn't that impossible to imagine him dealing 3 or more damage on turn 4. A lot of decks even in current standard aren't emptying their hands that fast.

I think estimations of Tibalt will underestimate him because he isn't just a powerful spell. You do have to think on how to use him. He isn't a Planeswalker you can just jam down and win with. But Planeswalkers have proven their power doing simple things. I think Tibalt will do that as well.

[Duos]

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Jace Beleren was an amazing Planeswalker who protected himself very poorly, only doing so by being bigger than most of the threats he was likely to face. He was an important card for blue decks before the printing of the far better and clearly broken Mind Sculptor, and after his banning was still around, drawing cards.

Turning your draw step into Desperate Ravings instead is not a non-bonus. It's not a card advantage bonus, no, but it adds card selection. It's still irrelevant. When comparing Think Twice to Desperate Ravings, there is no card advantage change, but there is a great card selection difference. Similarly, comparing a normal draw step to one without Tibalt is a comparison on a card selection level.

You're comparing Desperate Ravings to Tibalt. I am not, and for the obvious reason of "these cards don't do the same thing" as you have demonstrated. I am comparing Tibalt to a normal draw step in the same way Think Twice is compared to Desperate Ravings and showing that Tibalt's ability is a beneficial one to have.

Aren't you winning if they spend Celestial Purge on Tibalt? He isn't going to kill them, as you've so stated. I fail to see the issue with this problem. If Tibalt is your only red permanent, for example, boarding in Celestial Purge is probably just wrong (by your assertion of this card being terrible).

A slow, controlling red deck may not be throwing tons of damage at its opponents. A slow, controlling red deck could very well put an Insurrection to good use. And by the same token, if your red deck is doing that, how much extra damage do you need to get out of his second ability? 2? 4? If you play him on turn 2, it isn't that impossible to imagine him dealing 3 or more damage on turn 4. A lot of decks even in current standard aren't emptying their hands that fast.

I think estimations of Tibalt will underestimate him because he isn't just a powerful spell. You do have to think on how to use him. He isn't a Planeswalker you can just jam down and win with. But Planeswalkers have proven their power doing simple things. I think Tibalt will do that as well.

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My biggest issue with that is that it's NOT card selection because you're discarding at random. If you got to choose the discard, then yes, it would be an excellent +1. And to be fair, you can easily work around that by building in such a way as that whatever ends up in your yard is beneficial, but I don't feel there are enough cards you want in your yard yet to make that sort of deck worth building. My worry here comes in because unlike little Jace, he's not actually card advantage and he's not in a color that traditionally lends itself well to control. Right now, I don't see a home for him in any decks, so I'm wary of saying he's going to be good.

[tgva8889]

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I don't see why Red couldn't be a fine control color. It has a lot of tools now, I think it could be fine. Tibalt is a great card for them.

I mean, if you don't want to discard, you can just not use his +1.

Edit: Tibalt does not play like any Planeswalker previously. He is a very, very different card. He isn't the card you can just jam in your deck and say "this seems good." He isn't the kind of Planeswalker that even probably goes in the general archetypes we're used to. But he is a card with an effect that does something significant. I think he will see play, and I think he will be significant. He just isn't the kind of Planeswalker we're all used to.

[Sith_Happens]

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My biggest issue with that is that it's NOT card selection because you're discarding at random. If you got to choose the discard, then yes, it would be an excellent +1. And to be fair, you can easily work around that by building in such a way as that whatever ends up in your yard is beneficial, but I don't feel there are enough cards you want in your yard yet to make that sort of deck worth building. My worry here comes in because unlike little Jace, he's not actually card advantage and he's not in a color that traditionally lends itself well to control. Right now, I don't see a home for him in any decks, so I'm wary of saying he's going to be good.

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Yeah, the "random" is kind of the sticking point as far as this guy's usability. Without it he would, among other things, be an immediate three-of in my Madness deck.

Now, as far as ways in red for not-quite-selection to be useful... Pyromancer Ascension anyone?
Sure, that application would still be better if you got to choose the discard, but Ascension isn't picky about what you're discarding with Tibalt as long as it's an instant or sorcery and you're running four of it.

[tgva8889]

In more obviously exciting news:

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Yup. They did it. I'm trying to imagine what the RW and GU ones do.

[Duos]

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Now THAT is a land. WOW is that a land. Why couldn't some of the other effect lands have been that good? I'm looking at you, Grim Backwoods...

[flabort]

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Now THAT is a land. WOW is that a land. Why couldn't some of the other effect lands have been that good? I'm looking at you, Grim Backwoods...

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Indeed, it's good. Not as good as some custom made lands I've seen... but more balanced.

[Mystic Muse]

Anybody have any advice for an extended legal Allies deck? My cousins and I built one a long time ago, U/W/G, that I was thinking of turning into something better.

[Fable Wright]

Anybody have any advice for an extended legal Allies deck? My cousins and I built one a long time ago, U/W/G, that I was thinking of turning into something better.

Kazandu Blademaster + Hada Freeblade. Possibly also Talus Paladin, since it gains you some ridiculous life, as well.

Now that that's out of the way, some basic advice: You need fixing, and you need 2-drop Allies. The deck really needs to lay down an ally each and every turn, and possibly several per turn. Oran-Rief Survivalist is great, Jwari Shapeshifter is a copy of Kazandu Blademaster, which is amazing, and Bojuka Brigand is also a bear. Umara Raptor is more expensive, but has flying. Finally, Kabira Evangelists make all of your creatures unblockable, untargetable, and gets rid of auras. It is a rather good finisher. Finally, Join the Ranks gives you instant speed pump, blockers, and possibly protection from two colors and lifelink to all your creatures.

[Androgeus]

Anybody have any advice for an extended legal Allies deck? My cousins and I built one a long time ago, U/W/G, that I was thinking of turning into something better.

Would Call of the Kindred be good?