Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

[Fable Wright]

No, no, no. You want useless non-creatures, look no further than Break Open, the card that not only helps your opponent nine times out of ten, but you don't even know if it's the fringe tenth case until you try.

You might be able to temporarily give an opponent a morph creature, Break Open it, and then get it back, but that seems expensive and impractical. But Aysen Highway is also pretty bad... and, fittingly, is from homelands.

[Lord Seth]

If you really want to talk about the worst card ever, well, I don't know if Favor of the Woods is the worst, but it's certainly worse than Chimney Imps.

Favor of the Woods is awful in Constructed, but it's actually not that bad in Limited.

[Callos_DeTerran]

So here's a question Magic thread, what kind of value do you all put on foil cards? Do you all think they're worth vastly inflated prices?

I gotta admit, I'm asking this for a reason. I like foils because they look fancier and, on the right cards, look absolutely amazing even if the card sucks. Recently, two players where I tend to play magic opened two foils of two of the new mythic angels. A Gisela and a Bruna. I want them both (Gisela because I want the foil version of her, and Bruna because I want one of each of the mythic angels and Bruna is the last one I need). The guy with the Bruna is looking for an Avacyn (which I have two of) and I offered to trade it to him for the foil Bruna because Bruna's only a 5 (average) dollar card while Avacyn is 10-11 dollar card. Double Bruna's value essentially just because it's foil. Does that seem like a fair trade?

For the Gisela, I offered to trade the guy one of my two Giselas (I have two of those as well) since one of the reasons he so hesitant to trade his is because he doesn't have one, and then make up the difference...until I found out that Gisela (foil) is close to twenty dollars. O.o What? It's the same card with the same effect, just shiny.

Related, I was going to trade an Arid Mesa (and some other stuff) for an Unhinged/Glued Foil mountain which seemed fair (both lands, even if Arid Mesa has a bit more utility)...but why on earth is a mountain, even foil, worth $20 dollars?! It taps for one red mana!

[Sith_Happens]

Aysen Highway is also pretty bad... and, fittingly, is from homelands.

Theroretically, Aysen Highway would be useful against other white decks if you can ramp into it/cheat it out and either (a) keep a larger board presence or (b) use one of white's many "lol you can't attack me" cards.

On the other hand there's Great Wall, which negates plainswalk... an ability possesed by exactly four creatures in the entire game, barring the aforementioned Highway or a handfull of obscure blue cards.

[AgentPaper]

So here's a question Magic thread, what kind of value do you all put on foil cards? Do you all think they're worth vastly inflated prices?

I gotta admit, I'm asking this for a reason. I like foils because they look fancier and, on the right cards, look absolutely amazing even if the card sucks. Recently, two players where I tend to play magic opened two foils of two of the new mythic angels. A Gisela and a Bruna. I want them both (Gisela because I want the foil version of her, and Bruna because I want one of each of the mythic angels and Bruna is the last one I need). The guy with the Bruna is looking for an Avacyn (which I have two of) and I offered to trade it to him for the foil Bruna because Bruna's only a 5 (average) dollar card while Avacyn is 10-11 dollar card. Double Bruna's value essentially just because it's foil. Does that seem like a fair trade?

For the Gisela, I offered to trade the guy one of my two Giselas (I have two of those as well) since one of the reasons he so hesitant to trade his is because he doesn't have one, and then make up the difference...until I found out that Gisela (foil) is close to twenty dollars. O.o What? It's the same card with the same effect, just shiny.

Related, I was going to trade an Arid Mesa (and some other stuff) for an Unhinged/Glued Foil mountain which seemed fair (both lands, even if Arid Mesa has a bit more utility)...but why on earth is a mountain, even foil, worth $20 dollars?! It taps for one red mana!

It's the cheese factor. A burger without cheese is $2, and one with cheese is $2.50. Is the cheese worth 50 cents? No, but the guy cares about having a tasty burger will pay it anyways. The guy who cares more about saving money won't pay it, even if he does kinda like cheese.

Some people are simply willing to spend a lot of money on their hobby, whether it's because they really really like magic, or are just rich. To them, it matters more to have not only the best cards, but the best versions of those cards, and sticking another $10-$20 onto the price tag doesn't really matter for them. For a larger percentage of the players, the cost of the game is a much bigger deal, so saving a few bucks by getting normal versions makes more sense.

It's simple supply and demand: There aren't all that many foils out there, and there's a larger number of people who want to have foils. So, the price goes up.

TL;DR: Economics at work...for you, in this case!


Edit: As for Great Wall, that was obviously designed because of a message that future Maro sent to past Maro: "The power levels..they've gone out of control...stop it before it's too late....make a hoser for...planeswalkers!!"

[Fable Wright]

Related, I was going to trade an Arid Mesa (and some other stuff) for an Unhinged/Glued Foil mountain which seemed fair (both lands, even if Arid Mesa has a bit more utility)...but why on earth is a mountain, even foil, worth $20 dollars?! It taps for one red mana!

First off, those mountains are worth $5 before foiling. Trust me, one of the guys at my store trades for them all the time. The thing is, when you want mountains, you generally want a lot of them, because you're either collecting about 20 or more of them for use in drafts, pimping out your red deck wins, or whatever. The thing is, there's only so much Unhinged/Glued in circulation. And people who want them generally want 20 or more of them apiece... causing a massive demand for them. And then the foils, which there are far, far fewer of, are collected for the same reason- causing them to shoot up to $20. The only reason it isn't higher (since it is more scarce, by far) is that people aren't willing to trade that much for one mountain, for the reasons you described. They're still willing to go at it for $20, though, just because of the rarity/value of the card.

[Bucky]

A Gisela and a Bruna. I want them both (Gisela because I want the foil version of her, and Bruna because I want one of each of the mythic angels and Bruna is the last one I need). The guy with the Bruna is looking for an Avacyn (which I have two of) and I offered to trade it to him for the foil Bruna because Bruna's only a 5 (average) dollar card while Avacyn is 10-11 dollar card. Double Bruna's value essentially just because it's foil. Does that seem like a fair trade?

Foils of legendary creatures tend to be worth more because Commander players like foil generals. Bruna is playable as a general because (a) she's blue and (b) can easily deal 21 commander damage in a single swing. She is also quite different from any other commander in terms of capabilities.

Market call: Premium tradestock. Will retain and gain value long after rotation. Acquire+hold.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Foils of legendary creatures tend to be worth more because Commander players like foil generals. Bruna is playable as a general because (a) she's blue and (b) can easily deal 21 commander damage in a single swing. She is also quite different from any other commander in terms of capabilities.

Market call: Premium tradestock. Will retain and gain value long after rotation. Acquire+hold.

...Okay, I have to ask, just how does Bruna swing for 21 easily? This might just be lack of knowledge about past sets, but what enchantments in blue and white give that MASSIVE a boost to power? Or are that awesome to warrant an EDH general like Bruna? I'm not doubting the claim she'd be playable/cool as a general, but I want to know how so I can actually use Bruna and not just hoard her.

[arguskos]

...Okay, I have to ask, just how does Bruna swing for 21 easily? This might just be lack of knowledge about past sets, but what enchantments in blue and white give that MASSIVE a boost to power? Or are that awesome to warrant an EDH general like Bruna? I'm not doubting the claim she'd be playable/cool as a general, but I want to know how so I can actually use Bruna and not just hoard her.

Go look up how Zur the Enchanter kills people and basically just do all of that.

A quick thought would be something like... Steel of the Godhead+Empyreal Armor+Daybreak Coronet+that double strike aura+Copy Enchantment just for giggles. That's 21+, depending on the Copy.

[Bucky]

...Okay, I have to ask, just how does Bruna swing for 21 easily? This might just be lack of knowledge about past sets, but what enchantments in blue and white give that MASSIVE a boost to power? Or are that awesome to warrant an EDH general like Bruna? I'm not doubting the claim she'd be playable/cool as a general, but I want to know how so I can actually use Bruna and not just hoard her.

Without implying that this is a good idea, Three Dreams for Protective Bubble Battle Mastery and Eldrazi Conscription does the trick. Or just some auras that happen to have self-milled their way into your graveyard...

Aside from Bruna, the key cards are probably things like Mesa Enchantress, Kor Spiritdancer, Three Dreams and Gifts Ungiven. The various Umbras from Rise of the Eldrazi seem like decent role-players as well.

[The Extinguisher]

First off, those mountains are worth $5 before foiling. Trust me, one of the guys at my store trades for them all the time. The thing is, when you want mountains, you generally want a lot of them, because you're either collecting about 20 or more of them for use in drafts, pimping out your red deck wins, or whatever. The thing is, there's only so much Unhinged/Glued in circulation. And people who want them generally want 20 or more of them apiece... causing a massive demand for them. And then the foils, which there are far, far fewer of, are collected for the same reason- causing them to shoot up to $20. The only reason it isn't higher (since it is more scarce, by far) is that people aren't willing to trade that much for one mountain, for the reasons you described. They're still willing to go at it for $20, though, just because of the rarity/value of the card.

Plus, have you ever seen foil Unhinged lands. Damn. I will pay $20 for those sexy cards any day of the week.

[MechaKingGhidra]

Being there is a small booster draft at my local gaming clue next Sunday (I know, I know, Mother's Day, but tourney in the morning, family stuff at night) and I'm kinda split on whether or not I should even bother attending.

I've looked through the set image gallery and I see hardly any cards I'd want from the set (kind of a good thing, actually, considering there's no temptation to buy more than a few packs if I even bothered at all), but on the other hand it's a chance to do my second-ever booster draft.

I want to be able to make critical deck-making decisions *on the fly*. It typically takes me a week to make a single deck for our regular MtG game nights and I'd like to change that. Plus, my deck ideas usually involve disassembling the previous week's deck because there are certain cards I always play with if it's a specific colour (example, I always play Rites of Flourishing x4 if I have green).

$25 entry for the draft, so certainly not bad, either 4 or 5 boosters per person (the organizer wants to get a better feeling for how many will attend on account of the previously mentioned Mother's Day).

I hate feeling wishy-washy but it's gnawing at me just barely enough that I'm not too keen on really looking at all the pros and cons in a more detailed manner.

[Sith_Happens]

Plus, have you ever seen foil Unhinged lands. Damn. I will pay $20 for those sexy cards any day of the week.

Can you even use silver-bordered basic lands in a non-Un-game?

[Penguinizer]

Unhinged lands have black borders.

[Zombimode]

Un-lands are the only cards of un-sets that are legal in normal play.

[Fable Wright]

Being there is a small booster draft at my local gaming clue next Sunday (I know, I know, Mother's Day, but tourney in the morning, family stuff at night) and I'm kinda split on whether or not I should even bother attending.

I've looked through the set image gallery and I see hardly any cards I'd want from the set (kind of a good thing, actually, considering there's no temptation to buy more than a few packs if I even bothered at all), but on the other hand it's a chance to do my second-ever booster draft.

I want to be able to make critical deck-making decisions *on the fly*. It typically takes me a week to make a single deck for our regular MtG game nights and I'd like to change that. Plus, my deck ideas usually involve disassembling the previous week's deck because there are certain cards I always play with if it's a specific colour (example, I always play Rites of Flourishing x4 if I have green).

$25 entry for the draft, so certainly not bad, either 4 or 5 boosters per person (the organizer wants to get a better feeling for how many will attend on account of the previously mentioned Mother's Day).

I hate feeling wishy-washy but it's gnawing at me just barely enough that I'm not too keen on really looking at all the pros and cons in a more detailed manner.

First off, Avacyn Restored draft is awesome. Just flat out awesome. There is a huge variety of decks you can build, from a death trigger R/B deck to a W/G or G/R Soulbond deck to a U/W Flicker deck to W/R Humans to U/X mill to just about anything else in any 2-color combination. Basically, if you want to try out a new deck, or get more experience making new decks, or play in this awesome format, take the best card out of the first pack you draft, and build around that. This format is the best limited set since Rise of the Eldrazi or maybe even Ravnica limited. If limited isn't your thing, and you don't play EDH, you can skip this set, but otherwise I would highly recommend going.

[Grytorm]

Hello again. May I ask what the community thinks of this deck?

Black/White Sacrifice Tokens

I designed it myself and I may try to buy the cards for it, so far it seems to be rather budget. But first I would like to know what you think of it. ANy suggestions for budget cards to go in it?

[tgva8889]

DMofDarkness, is there a second comment there?

I wasn't a huge fan of Ravnica-block limited, but I wasn't very good at Magic back then so maybe that was part of the problem. I forced RUG. That was pretty much all I did in that format. At all.

Rise Limited was superb. Probably my favorite draft format in a long time. It's good to know that Avacyn Restored draft is equally interesting. But me? I'm gonna draft me some Cube while I still can.

On that note, since I don't quite understand this, why do people draft with numbers of packs other than 3 in normal limited formats? That doesn't make any sense to me. Is it significantly different for some reason?

[MechaKingGhidra]

Alright, DMofDarkness, thanks for the input and we don't have specific format games (well, okay, Two Headed Giant sometimes, but that's just so that we can accomodate a larger table of people) so it looks like I'll probably not go.

And something I *just* thought about, as well, is that several people I know are going already have been to at *least* one draft somewhere else and have a plethora of experience in previous set drafts as well.

Essentially, it would be me flailing to do what I could, swimming with the sharks. I hate not being able to swim, literally or metaphorically.

[Ninjaman]

Guys what are the chances for phantasmal image to see a reprint, and what about cemetery reaper?

[Shades of Gray]

Guys what are the chances for phantasmal image to see a reprint, and what about cemetery reaper?

Ask this here.



I can see them reprinting Cemetary Reaper. Phantasmal I'm not as sure about.

[MammonAzrael]

The Image is probably too strong to see a reprint, but with the Titans leaving it may stay. Given it's common (and likely unintended) use as an answer to Legendaries though, it would surprise me. The Reaper is a decent choice for reprint as it's a solid lord. Personally I hope it's ousted by Death Baron, at least for a set, just so the price on those guys will drop some.

[tgva8889]

I feel like Image is going to rotate because I feel like the Illusion theme is going to rotate. Image wasn't really that unintended an answer to Legendary creatures, and having that answer available is highly relevant (Sigarda). They will for sure reprint Clone if they don't reprint Phantasmal Image. I wouldn't bet on Image returning, though. It had its time.

It's possible Reaper will return. I would like it, personally, as Reaper is a cool card and I think it's a pretty fitting Zombie lord. They don't always give lords to every color though (I believe there isn't a White lord in M12), so we'll never know.

[Sith_Happens]

So... any wild speculation on what Wizards will come up with for M13's broken, format-warping mythic or cycle thereof?

[Cogwheel]

So... any wild speculation on what Wizards will come up with for M13's broken, format-warping mythic or cycle thereof?

Serra's Sanctum/Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle/I forget the rest.

[tgva8889]

There's a reason you forget them, and it's because they're only kind of in the same cycle: Shivan Gorge and Phyrexian Tower. There's no Red card to go in this cycle, but I consider Cabal Coffers the true Black part of this cycle, even though it isn't Legendary.

[IthilanorStPete]

There's a reason you forget them, and it's because they're only kind of in the same cycle: Shivan Gorge and Phyrexian Tower. There's no Red card to go in this cycle, but I consider Cabal Coffers the true Black part of this cycle, even though it isn't Legendary.

Hey, Phyrexian Tower has its uses, even if it's nowhere near the other three.

[Sith_Happens]

Serra's Sanctum/Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle/I forget the rest.

I meant new cards, hence my use of the words "come up with."

[Cogwheel]

I meant new cards, hence my use of the words "come up with."

They count as basic lands that are also titans.

[Ninjaman]

The Reaper is a decent choice for reprint as it's a solid lord. Personally I hope it's ousted by Death Baron, at least for a set, just so the price on those guys will drop some.

I already have the reapers, but deathbarons would be awesome too.

I feel like Image is going to rotate because I feel like the Illusion theme is going to rotate. Image wasn't really that unintended an answer to Legendary creatures, and having that answer available is highly relevant (Sigarda). They will for sure reprint Clone if they don't reprint Phantasmal Image. I wouldn't bet on Image returning, though. It had its time.

Then i will wait to see. I wont spend 40$ on them if the rotate out in 3 months.

It's possible Reaper will return. I would like it, personally, as Reaper is a cool card and I think it's a pretty fitting Zombie lord. They don't always give lords to every color though (I believe there isn't a White lord in M12), so we'll never know.

I really hope they will reprint it or death baron.

Serra's Sanctum/Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle/I forget the rest.

I heard counterspell and even Force of will.