Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[Anarion]

Easily done, I made that mistake myself before I caught it!

Now, don't get me wrong, 4K c isn't bad, per se, if in isoloation, it's the fact that the relays set up basically - to use D&D terminology - a bit of almost a "points of light" situation, where all transit is between nodes, and the more than 99% of the galaxy is in the unexplored bits between.

A better analogy than the road/canal one would be if the size of Earth's oceans suddenly increased by a factor of ten to a hundred, and most of the ports and shipyards were damaged during the event. Lots of place rely on imported food or goods, which is going to be considerably disrupted.



It's the "years" bit that's the problem. I agree, it probably won't take them many years to try and re-establish the galactic economy (new enemy civilisations notwithstanding - if, for example, they run into a large, hostile non-relay civilisation slap in the middle of the proposed trade route between, say, Thessia and Palaven, they're going to have problems!) I'd say if it took 'em ten to get cracking they were badly fragging it up (especially if pretty much everyone got saved).

The problem is the short-term disaster relief. Aid (food, supplies, medical aid) is just not going to get to the smaller colonies for a good while, and that's where people are going to die. Things may be tight on garden worlds or the homeworlds, but they'll be okay in the long-run. It's the rest that are going to suffer.

Take Noveria, for example.

(Ooh, that was a good example for me to pick! It's in a known spacial feature, which means we know the actual distance to it!)

It's 1500 lightyears away, which is 125 days at 12ly/day¹. Noveria is "barely habitable" and has no garden worlds (that we know of) in the cluster. They are in serious danger of starvation with no food imports (as it's unlikely they grow enough to be significanlty self-sufficient.) Now, they might not all die, but I suspect there is a high likelihood of significant casualties (on top of any Cerberus/Reapers inflicted.)

That's one of the closer landmarks - both the Eagle and Omega nebulas, which make an appearance, are about 5-6k light years away from Earth.

(By the by, Omega station, - in the Omega Nebula - could well be buggered!)

Now, of course, there may in reality be other alien clusters nearer, of course: we don't know. (Equally, of course - and given the relatively small proportion of the galaxy explored, perhaps probably not) However, this does illustrate that ME, does, in fact, take place over non-trivial FTL transit distances, and that reaching more isolated, less important clusters is going to take time, during which they are at risk.



¹Nearly screwed up the speed/ distance thing again myself there! I was thinking "1500/4000 (the speed, in the amount faster than c speed, not the distance travelled to give us time!)= 3, that doesn't sound a lot", until I remembered it's 1500/12...!

Not to cut off a perfectly good rant here, but a question. All the races of the galaxy have been actively prepared for war. They've known about the reapers for a few years, but even before that they had very specific military treaties and the top council races in particular were basically responsible for policing the whole galaxy, having had two really major wars in the past.

So, why wouldn't even the most backwater worlds keep enough emergency supplies on hand to keep everyone alive if they're cut off for a year due to major military conflict? Sure, people would have to go onto emergency rationing and such, but I find it hard to believe that whole planets with potential futuristic storage tech would be so dependent on trade that if they're dark for a couple months half their population starves to death.

[Psyren]

Or more likely: the fragile peace brokered by Shepard evaporates and without the Council and the Citadel to keep everything in check the various races fleets go back to their natural state of blasting the hell out of each other.

Unless Wreav is in charge, I don't see the peace being particularly "fragile." Do you expect Wrex to randomly take down some Turians? Primarch Victus to start an argument with the Salarians out of nowhere? The Quarians to take potshots at the Geth while their guard is down? "Blasting the hell out of each other" hasn't ever been the races' "natural state." This isn't Azeroth.

[Trazoi]

Unless Wreav is in charge, I don't see the peace being particularly "fragile." Do you expect Wrex to randomly take down some Turians? Primarch Victus to start an argument with the Salarians out of nowhere? The Quarians to take potshots at the Geth while their guard is down? "Blasting the hell out of each other" hasn't ever been the races' "natural state." This isn't Azeroth.

Immediately? No. But I don't see that mix coming to an amicable agreement on their own about what to do with the limited resources available to them. Someone would start a fight pretty quickly.

(Did you bring any of the Omega mercenary fleets along? In retrospect maybe that wasn't the best idea. )

[Toastkart]

It's 1500 lightyears away, which is 125 days at 12ly/day¹. Noveria is "barely habitable" and has no garden worlds (that we know of) in the cluster. They are in serious danger of starvation with no food imports (as it's unlikely they grow enough to be significanlty self-sufficient.) Now, they might not all die, but I suspect there is a high likelihood of significant casualties (on top of any Cerberus/Reapers inflicted.)

125 days doesn't seem like a huge deal, sure, but unless they have some place to stop every 50 hours and discharge their drive cores, they'd never make it.

Now, of course, there may in reality be other alien clusters nearer, of course: we don't know. (Equally, of course - and given the relatively small proportion of the galaxy explored, perhaps probably not) However, this does illustrate that ME, does, in fact, take place over non-trivial FTL transit distances, and that reaching more isolated, less important clusters is going to take time, during which they are at risk.

That's another thing that bothered me about the reapers' motivation. If the relay network covers such a small portion of the galaxy, how do the reapers deal with civilizations that rise up outside the network? What's to prevent them from developing along a different path than the reapers wanted, or from developing synthetics that will eventually (supposedly) destroy all life in the galaxy?

[Landis963]

*well thought-out calculations here*

But that's a direct, as the thresher maw asteroid flies route between the Local Cluster and the Horsehead Nebula. As I've stated before, Arcturus lies much closer to Earth (3 days 12ly/day FTL from Sol, quoth Wikipedia), and you can then jump either to the Horsehead nebula (thereby bypassing the worst of the trip) or to the Exodus Cluster (Eden Prime, among others, can be checked in on this way). With those pit stops, I'm willing to bet that it would be a shorter trip than a direct shot to the Horsehead Nebula, despite the increase in physical distance.

Agree with you on Omega Station. Given that it was basically Mos Eisley spaceport, well, in space, and it was already overrun by Cerberus and Reaper forces, and the closest civilization's territory we know to it is the civilisation that lives in the galactic north of the Attican Traverse, yeah it's boned. And frankly, not many people in power (except perhaps Aria and the merc leaders she conscripted into an army) are going to care. Some might even be glad.

[Aotrs Commander]

Not to cut off a perfectly good rant here, but a question. All the races of the galaxy have been actively prepared for war. They've known about the reapers for a few years, but even before that they had very specific military treaties and the top council races in particular were basically responsible for policing the whole galaxy, having had two really major wars in the past.

So, why wouldn't even the most backwater worlds keep enough emergency supplies on hand to keep everyone alive if they're cut off for a year due to major military conflict? Sure, people would have to go onto emergency rationing and such, but I find it hard to believe that whole planets with potential futuristic storage tech would be so dependent on trade that if they're dark for a couple months half their population starves to death.

That assumes they weren't already having to use a lot of those resources during the Reaper conflict (which went on for "months" according to Hackett and Shepard), either due to damage inflicted or the fact that the trade/supply routes have been disrupted anyway because of the fighting.

There's also a question of how much you can actually store - if world trade was abruptly cut off, how long would it be be for you started to feel the pinch?

Remember, in this sort of case, the answer is - what is the cheapest and who was the lowest bidder? The council certainly never showed any real pro-activeness throughout the trilogy, what makes you think they'd bother to sopend the money if they didn't need to? Considering despite all Shepard's efforts, the Reaper invasion still caught them on the hop, and the really weren't prepared for war at the start of ME 3. Given the attitude of complacecy that characterised the council's actions - up to the point when the Citidel was attacked for the second time in three years or so, I just can't see them, or their respective governments (human or otherwise) having really huge emergancy stores. EA, maybe, because at least some of 'em actually listened to Shepard, and maybe some of the Turians, but not really anyone else.

(And with the loss of the citidel...)

The destruction of the mass relays was basically unthinkable - even during the Rachni wars non-one seemed to consider that option. So, no, given the general state of the ME universe buracracy in general, I don't think the council would have put into place any contingency plans in place in case of the destruction of the relays. And any plans they had in place would have been badly disrupted by the prior Repear crisis. It's that back-to-back problem that's the killer. The Reaper damage to all the infrastructure is what makes a bad situation really untenable, because without the industrial centres, speedy recovery is nearly impossible.

[Anarion]

That assumes they weren't already having to use a lot of those resources during the Reaper conflict (which went on for "months" according to Hackett and Shepard), either due to damage inflicted or the fact that the trade/supply routes have been disrupted anyway because of the fighting.

There's also a question of how much you can actually store - if world trade was abruptly cut off, how long would it be be for you started to feel the pinch?

Remember, in this sort of case, the answer is - what is the cheapest and who was the lowest bidder? The council certainly never showed any real pro-activeness throughout the trilogy, what makes you think they'd bother to sopend the money if they didn't need to? Considering despite all Shepard's efforts, the Reaper invasion still caught them on the hop, and the really weren't prepared for war at the start of ME 3. Given the attitude of complacecy that characterised the council's actions - up to the point when the Citidel was attacked for the second time in three years or so, I just can't see them, or their respective governments (human or otherwise) having really huge emergancy stores. EA, maybe, because at least some of 'em actually listened to Shepard, and maybe some of the Turians, but not really anyone else.

(And with the loss of the citidel...)

The destruction of the mass relays was basically unthinkable - even during the Rachni wars non-one seemed to consider that option. So, no, given the general state of the ME universe buracracy in general, I don't think the council would have put into place any contingency plans in place in case of the destruction of the relays. And any plans they had in place would have been badly disrupted by the prior Repear crisis. It's that back-to-back problem that's the killer. The Reaper damage to all the infrastructure is what makes a bad situation really untenable, because without the industrial centres, speedy recovery is nearly impossible.

I'm gonna have to push back a bit on this one. Sure, the destruction of the relays is unthinkable, but camping a fleet out next to one isn't. And I'm not talking about reaper preparation (which the council certainly flubbed) but rather general military preparedness, which is actually quite high. Basically every Turian world had military prep, nearly all Asari have commando training at some point or other, Krogan just don't die ever (seriously, if they survived all the crap up to this point, I'm pretty sure a lack of supplies isn't getting them), the Quarians have made an entire living out of only being in space, humans are in their own solar system, so should be fine, and the Salarians...eh I didn't really like them anyway.

Even given resources expended on reapers, I think the above level of prep and survivability of the races means that most colonies are still well-outfitted, or that they were already obliterated and it doesn't matter at the point that you fire the citadel.

Edit: Some other points
1. We know that regular FTL works fine in a local star cluster, so any cluster that has a garden world nearby should have enough supplies laid in to rebuild locally and become self-sufficient until they can re-establish contact.
2. Given the evidence of the Quarians, I don't think it unreasonable that some of the most out of the way locations have their own ship or station tech to grow food for the inhabitants. Sure, they may be unhappy living on protein supplements instead of Filet Mignon, but I think they can deal.
3. If a system was in the narrow range of devastated beyond local ability to recover yet still has survivors, the odds are that numbers are low enough that even relatively hostile worlds could grow enough food to support the much reduced population.

[Psyren]

Immediately? No. But I don't see that mix coming to an amicable agreement on their own about what to do with the limited resources available to them. Someone would start a fight pretty quickly.

So they FTL and leave. I really don't think it'll take that long to soup up the drive cores, and Weekes said the Citadel food stores are also intact.

(Did you bring any of the Omega mercenary fleets along? In retrospect maybe that wasn't the best idea. )

I imagine their numbers are a lot thinner. Which might make taking Omega back more difficult, but then with TIM gone I doubt Cerberus is nearly as dangerous either.

[Luzahn]

So they FTL and leave. I really don't think it'll take that long to soup up the drive cores, and Weekes said the Citadel food stores are also intact.



I imagine their numbers are a lot thinner. Which might make taking Omega back more difficult, but then with TIM gone I doubt Cerberus is nearly as dangerous either.

Speaking of the Illusive Man, does anybody recall the games mentioning when he took control of Cerberus? His stated goals seem to be at odds with Cerberus's actions in 1, what with the unleashing cosmic horrors on defenseless human colonies.

[Psyren]

Speaking of the Illusive Man, does anybody recall the games mentioning when he took control of Cerberus? His stated goals seem to be at odds with Cerberus's actions in 1, what with the unleashing cosmic horrors on defenseless human colonies.

What do you mean, "took control?" Didn't he found Cerberus?

There was an e-mail that circulated not long after Shanxi, in which an anonymous person called for a "cerberus" to guard the Charon Relay against alien incursion. The Alliance couldn't trace the originator of the e-mail, but dismissed the person's claims by referring to him as an "illusive man" in the media as a form of ridicule. TIM ended up taking the moniker as a badge of honor.

Anyway, their actions in 1 were pretty bad too, e.g. Akuze, Chasca, and murdering Kahoku.

[Morty]

Anyway, their actions in 1 were pretty bad too, e.g. Akuze, Chasca, and murdering Kahoku.

None of which except for Chasca are even mentioned in Mass Effect 2, mind you. The railroading in regards to Cerberus is possibly my biggest beef with the second game.

[Name_Here]

I'm gonna have to push back a bit on this one. Sure, the destruction of the relays is unthinkable, but camping a fleet out next to one isn't. And I'm not talking about reaper preparation (which the council certainly flubbed) but rather general military preparedness, which is actually quite high. Basically every Turian world had military prep, nearly all Asari have commando training at some point or other, Krogan just don't die ever (seriously, if they survived all the crap up to this point, I'm pretty sure a lack of supplies isn't getting them), the Quarians have made an entire living out of only being in space, humans are in their own solar system, so should be fine, and the Salarians...eh I didn't really like them anyway.

Actually the entire series shows that the military preparedness of all the races is pretty bad. Each and every threat took them to the wall to the point that the council races would have to fast track a race for uplifting.

I mean look at what Garrus did with his small task force. Secured supplies, hardened communication lines and various little changes that would have already been done if you were right. And he was working with the Turians a race that would have the most military readiness of all the races. Imagine how much a race like the volus would have invested in supplies in case of the unimaginable. My guess is that they would invest as close to zero as possible because money spent engaging in flights of fancy is money that isn't out there circulating and making you more money.

Even given resources expended on reapers, I think the above level of prep and survivability of the races means that most colonies are still well-outfitted, or that they were already obliterated and it doesn't matter at the point that you fire the citadel.

I agree with your overall point that the races won't die out, but at the end of the series the entire galaxy will be a rather bleak place to live. Industry across the galaxy has been pounded heavily meaning that production of things like tractors and combines and all the technology that allows for modern farming techniques will be impossible to produce. I don't know how to do the math but unless the Reapers killed a huge chunk of the population of earth starvation and disease will be an unavoidable fate for much of Earth.

Edit: Some other points
1. We know that regular FTL works fine in a local star cluster, so any cluster that has a garden world nearby should have enough supplies laid in to rebuild locally and become self-sufficient until they can re-establish contact.

IF the Garden world can even maintain it's own population.

2. Given the evidence of the Quarians, I don't think it unreasonable that some of the most out of the way locations have their own ship or station tech to grow food for the inhabitants. Sure, they may be unhappy living on protein supplements instead of Filet Mignon, but I think they can deal.

And the Reapers made a point of destroying any industry. So even if they did have food production factories that they could rely on many of them won't be standing post war. And they won't be able to rebuild them or repair them without contact from the rest of the galaxy.

3. If a system was in the narrow range of devastated beyond local ability to recover yet still has survivors, the odds are that numbers are low enough that even relatively hostile worlds could grow enough food to support the much reduced population.

Except that the reapers didn't really do much killing at those kinds of worlds. They stopped by destroyed any industry and then flew off. Most of these worlds wouldn't have undergone a massive depopulation event. Most of the small colonies probably have a full population of colonists just now cut off from traders who can turn their products into food.

[Calemyr]

What do you mean, "took control?" Didn't he found Cerberus?

There was an e-mail that circulated not long after Shanxi, in which an anonymous person called for a "cerberus" to guard the Charon Relay against alien incursion. The Alliance couldn't trace the originator of the e-mail, but dismissed the person's claims by referring to him as an "illusive man" in the media as a form of ridicule. TIM ended up taking the moniker as a badge of honor.

Anyway, their actions in 1 were pretty bad too, e.g. Akuze, Chasca, and murdering Kahoku.

Yes, he was the founder as far as I can tell.

If you trust Miranda, she says your experiences in ME1 were against the military branch of Cerberus, which focuses on creating military resources by exploiting discoveries - all high risk/high reward ventures. You supposedly never heard about the ones that implode with self-destructive genius?

All of the cells report only to TIM, and TIM is amoral. Note I said amoral, not immoral. His actions are not tainted by any form of morality, just a goal he pursues by any means available to him. Not good, not evil, just driven. He doesn't care about the risks or costs - if a path advances his agenda, he pursues it. That's the same philosophy that led to his attempts to weaponize husks, creepers, and rachni, as well as to resurrect Shepard and break the bank provide weapons, financial backing, and influence.

[Luzahn]

Yes, he was the founder as far as I can tell.

If you trust Miranda, she says your experiences in ME1 were against the military branch of Cerberus, which focuses on creating military resources by exploiting discoveries - all high risk/high reward ventures. You supposedly never heard about the ones that implode with self-destructive genius?

All of the cells report only to TIM, and TIM is amoral. Note I said amoral, not immoral. His actions are not tainted by any form of morality, just a goal he pursues by any means available to him. Not good, not evil, just driven. He doesn't care about the risks or costs - if a path advances his agenda, he pursues it. That's the same philosophy that led to his attempts to weaponize husks, creepers, and rachni, as well as to resurrect Shepard and break the bank provide weapons, financial backing, and influence.

Now, my understanding of the Illusive Man's goals was that he was attempting to advance Humanity's power at any cost. In Mass Effect 1, however, we see Cerberus testing Thorian Creepers (Not Tholians, why do I keep doing that.) and Rachni, not on alien colonies, but on useful human colonies. I suppose you could just write that up to a quasi-retcon of the organization in 1.

None of which except for Chasca are even mentioned in Mass Effect 2, mind you. The railroading in regards to Cerberus is possibly my biggest beef with the second game.

I agree. My Shepard single-handedly purged all Cerberus within reach in 1, and lost his squad on Akuze. There is no justification for ever trusting Cerberus in 2. If I had had total freedom of choice, I probably would have gunned down / knocked out Miranda and Jacob and escaped the Cerberus facility. Or at least flown the Normandy 2 into Citadel space and turn it over.


I had assumed that that email referred to some random individual whose manifesto Cerberus used as inspiration for their organization, including their leader's name.

[Aotrs Commander]

But that's a direct, as the thresher maw asteroid flies route between the Local Cluster and the Horsehead Nebula. As I've stated before, Arcturus lies much closer to Earth (3 days 12ly/day FTL from Sol, quoth Wikipedia), and you can then jump either to the Horsehead nebula (thereby bypassing the worst of the trip) or to the Exodus Cluster (Eden Prime, among others, can be checked in on this way). With those pit stops, I'm willing to bet that it would be a shorter trip than a direct shot to the Horsehead Nebula, despite the increase in physical distance.

Didn't notice this earlier...

That's true if it's mass relay distance. Otherwise, taking the long route round makes the journey longer (in time and distance) - mutliple stops doesn't make non relay FTL any faster (the exact opposite, in fact), you've still got the limitations of 12ly/day. My estimates are, as you say, based on a continuous direct transit - by the time you figured in the non-straight line due to, as Evrine said, the need to discharge the core or refuel, that time could increase a fair bit. That's 125 days minimum time, assuming probably unrealistically optimal conditions.

*words of wisdom*

I have nothing to add that, Name_Here has pretty much phantom'd what I would have said. Though perhaps phrased more cohesively than my usual meandering ramblings!



Edit: Changing the subject completely (sorta), Shepard sees the ending to ME 3. Ther are quite few parodies floating around, but this one, being entirely self-contained, I thought was particularly funny...

Edit edit: actually, that guy's whole series of parody vidoes are quite funny.

[Calemyr]

Now, my understanding of the Illusive Man's goals was that he was attempting to advance Humanity's power at any cost. In Mass Effect 1, however, we see Cerberus testing Thorian Creepers (Not Tholians, why do I keep doing that.) and Rachni, not on alien colonies, but on useful human colonies. I suppose you could just write that up to a quasi-retcon of the organization in 1.

I don't remember if it was ME1 or ME2 (I think it was ME1, though), but the ME1 experiments you take down were explained as being attempts to create disposable shock troopers. The goal was to create a completely controllable and expendable front line military unit that could be sent into high risk situations to do as much damage as possible before human lives are risked.

As I said before, however, the risks and costs of experimenting with such resources is a non-issue for TIM. He wants shock troopers, he wants a dramatic increase in human military potential coupled with a decrease in human casualties. An isolated colony or two never mattered to him at all. It's humanity that's important, humans are expendable.

[Zorg]

What's that ME3 story thread? Do an imagedump? Ok...

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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[Callos_DeTerran]

I agree with your overall point that the races won't die out, but at the end of the series the entire galaxy will be a rather bleak place to live. Industry across the galaxy has been pounded heavily meaning that production of things like tractors and combines and all the technology that allows for modern farming techniques will be impossible to produce. I don't know how to do the math but unless the Reapers killed a huge chunk of the population of earth starvation and disease will be an unavoidable fate for much of Earth.

They did, they really really did.

[Aotrs Commander]

What's that ME3 story thread? Do an imagedump? Ok...

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Lucky...Mwahahaha!...don't have to ahahahahaha!...breathe, or would bwahahahahaha! suffocate!

[Anarion]

Actually the entire series shows that the military preparedness of all the races is pretty bad. Each and every threat took them to the wall to the point that the council races would have to fast track a race for uplifting.

I mean look at what Garrus did with his small task force. Secured supplies, hardened communication lines and various little changes that would have already been done if you were right. And he was working with the Turians a race that would have the most military readiness of all the races. Imagine how much a race like the volus would have invested in supplies in case of the unimaginable. My guess is that they would invest as close to zero as possible because money spent engaging in flights of fancy is money that isn't out there circulating and making you more money.

Which small task for are you referring to? Did you mean on Omega, or when he was advising the Turian military in ME3, or something else? I agree that Garrus really knew what he was doing and was excellent at making sure that every little detail was caught. However, I still think that in broad terms nearly every Turian settlement was organized around military standards and would have been prepared to operate independently for some time if necessary.

As for the Volus, I think you're missing out on a very lucrative series of investments to sell planetary supplies and insurance around the galaxy. People in the real world prepare for disaster all the time, I see no reason why the galaxy's best financial race wouldn't do the same and make money off it in the process.

I agree with your overall point that the races won't die out, but at the end of the series the entire galaxy will be a rather bleak place to live. Industry across the galaxy has been pounded heavily meaning that production of things like tractors and combines and all the technology that allows for modern farming techniques will be impossible to produce. I don't know how to do the math but unless the Reapers killed a huge chunk of the population of earth starvation and disease will be an unavoidable fate for much of Earth.

That's a theory, and it might be true. It doesn't have to be though. It's just as likely that much of Earth survived and that there is enough food and tech from all the military there that they'll be able to deploy equipment and get vital services restored within a few days and high tech food production going within the month. Other colonies may have been wiped out already, but if they weren't, why does all their tech have to be gone (other than VIs in the destroy ending)?

IF the Garden world can even maintain it's own population.

The entire galaxy is supported by these garden worlds. They'll have them up and running ASAP and providing food within the local clusters even if they can't get FTL to other star clusters. To suggest a garden world couldn't support its own population doesn't really make sense unless the reapers already destroyed it entirely. If that were the case, then yes that world is lost, but again there's no evidence that every single garden world was destroyed by reapers and they don't have to be.

And the Reapers made a point of destroying any industry. So even if they did have food production factories that they could rely on many of them won't be standing post war. And they won't be able to rebuild them or repair them without contact from the rest of the galaxy.

Why not? Colonists are already hardy and independent folk and the major fleets all have plenty of tech available. It might take a little time to rebuild, sure, but that's why I started by explaining that I think most planets would have adequate stores for at least a year, to give them time to rebuild.

Except that the reapers didn't really do much killing at those kinds of worlds. They stopped by destroyed any industry and then flew off. Most of these worlds wouldn't have undergone a massive depopulation event. Most of the small colonies probably have a full population of colonists just now cut off from traders who can turn their products into food.

Great, that means they can rebuild more quickly and start sending food out to surrounding systems.



In sum: The reapers were powerful, sure, but even the planets they invaded in greatest force didn't get burnt to the ground, and a lot of the galaxy's navy and tech were already in place, as well as many experts and skilled workers surviving the reapers visiting their planets. So, if the difference between everybody dies and everybody has time to rebuild is that planets need to have stores for 3 years instead of 1 year, I'm pretty sure the writers would write it in that they have stores for 3 years.

[Zorg]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Lucky...Mwahahaha!...don't have to ahahahahaha!...breathe, or would bwahahahahaha! suffocate!

Breathing is overrated.

[Morty]

Breathing is overrated.

...
YES.
Also, if there's anyone around here who preserved the Collector Base - what're the consequences of it in ME3, exactly? I'm talking about NPC reactions as well.

[Aotrs Commander]

Breathing is overrated.

*appaluds*

Okay, is there actually anyone here who didn't want to do that (at least once)?



I suppose at least one thing positive about the ending - it has inspired more humour than any other single event in the entire trilogy...

[Derthric]

They did, they really really did.

Lets say they killed 60% of the Earth's population that would be roughly 7 billion people. Now the only actual source we have to go on is the Codex's 2 million a day being harvested, this leaves out war a casualties, suicides, health related deaths etc. But even then I think 60% is reasonable, but that would still leave 4 billion on Earth. That is 2 billion less than we have now, and more like 1990 population levels. The problem is that even at 4billion you need industrial scale farming and global transit systems to distribute it all. Both of which have been devastated. Now I am sure that within a year or two Admiral Hackett will use the power of the gravelly voice and pure badassery to reinstall semblance of order and get these networks up and running on Earth. The problem comes with the colonies and Homeworlds without Military presence. Garrus had the Primarch pull their fleets from Palavan for the final crucible push. All that's there is the burning remains of cities and resistance fighters. Thessia is worse off, given the asari's near total reliance on their social structures.

The colonies of the Systems Alliance probably have plansfor occupation in their colonial capitals civil defense office. Given the Alliance's strategy of, let the enemy land and come in with an overwhelming counter attack rather than scatter forces in piecemeal defenses. But thinking they might have deployed enough resources to last for potential years, that is hard to believe.

On the Fleet Presence,

Admiral Raan states that the Quarians are sending the Heavy Fleet and a good chunk of the Patrol Fleet. But not the Civilian Fleet. Now we see the liveships there, which makes sense since they were makeshift Dreadnaughts. Now would they have deployed their refinery ships to combat. Would they bring all their foodstuffs and all their liveships or just some. Not leaving any agricultural materiels for the rebuilding? Did Hackett bring the Alliance's Agri-ships, Adams' folks are stationed on one. If Sword was just military craft then they might not have. But they might have also brought anything they could attach a gun to, even if it was a crewman with a Carnifex duct taped to the hull. We don't know. To come down on the Dark Age side of the outcome spectrum should not have been an unexpected outcome given that we do not know the resources available and the implied near or total destruction being wrought around the galaxy.

On the Migrant Fleet.

Maybe I missed it in the Codex but when did they travel by FTL only? Why wouldn't they use the relays? Conservation of resources would dictate that the Relays be used. Why mine, refine and consume all that fuel when you have a perfectly open route, that no one can block you from using. Saving the fuel for needed in cluster maneuvering if heavy combat were encountered.

On Rebuilding.

The idea that they just needed to sit down at a drawing board move some pieces about and then have trans-galactic FTL is out of sorts. Could they do it? Yes. In a short time frame and then refit hundreds if not thousands of ships with this new tech all without spaceborne industrial facilities and a devastated system stripped of anything useful? I doubt that, I really do.

If we go with the idea that they were invoking Astrobiology in the ending, then why must we ignore other aspects of science. Looking at Earth and seeing so much of it on fire from space is a clear sign its not going to be a beautiful blue marble anytime soon. Because we know anything that hot and bright is not just mere brush fires but akin to fields of fire raging and unfought. the environmental impact of that much desiccate and debris in the air will render earth into a borderline uninhabitable hunk of rock. Might as well have been Colony Dropped. Which could happen with all that debris falling into atmo.

[Luzahn]

On the topic of the Migrant Fleet, ME1 mentions the fleet blocking relays for weeks while all of their ships travel through.

[Binks]

This means that from earth you can get to places like Palaven within a reasonable time.

Assuming sufficient places between Earth and Palaven to stop off and discharge the electrical buildup. You know, that thing the writers spent lots of time telling us had to be done, along with the dozen other things preventing ships from just FTL-ing from one system to the next.

They spent 3 games building up the fact that getting from place to place requires Relays because of all sorts of problems with normal FTL (even right up to the end of the game, note that the Crucible fleet comes out of a Mass Relay. No conventional FTL, despite that fact that, were it reasonably possible, it would be a far better solution for secrecy) then expected us to accept that blowing up the relays wouldn't cause any kind of problem because normal FTL is fine.

It would be like a game where you had to cross the Atlantic Ocean repeatedly in an Airplane and being told over and over again how dangerous the ocean was...then flight is wiped out at the end. You're going to assume that means Europe is cut off from North America, even if you can cross in a boat, because the writers told you so!

FTL is poorly developed because about the time you invent it (or just before) you come across your first relay and stops FTL research (like comparing the combustion engine in an ultra-modern car with that of one in a late 19th century car).
It will take a few years, but FTL can be by itself optimized far better rather easily.

Assuming of course that FTL hasn't already been optimized as far as it can be. That's quite an assumption to ask the audience to make at the end of a story with no supporting evidence. Sure we could assume FTL is like the Internal Combustion Engine and could be made more efficient with some work...or we could assume they're like Batteries that are about as efficient as is physically possible.

Assuming FTL is dead because it can't be made any faster is something that some fans are assuming because there is no in-game evidence against it and some in-game evidence supporting it

The writers have said FTL will advance, but that's all after-the-fact. There is not 1 shred of evidence in game that FTL technology has fallen behind because of the mass relay's. So there's plenty of good reason to assume FTL is effectively done, because there's not many stars that can be reached from Earth with the FTL drives as we're told about them in-game. Whatever the writers might say after the fact the fact is that they gave us a game where every indication was that the fleet was stranded and FTL travel around the galaxy was dead, at least for a significant period of time. They might not have intended that, but that's what they gave us, and that's where the theories are coming from.

[Xondoure]

RE: Noveria.

That was probably a bad example. Noveria is filled with the extremely paranoid and would likely have Nuclear fallout shelters with more than enough food to last several lifetimes.

[Zevox]

Also, if there's anyone around here who preserved the Collector Base - what're the consequences of it in ME3, exactly? I'm talking about NPC reactions as well.

Nothing significant. After finishing the mission to Cerberus' base (the start of the endgame) you'll get either the heart or brain of the Human Reaper for destroying or preserving the base respectively. The brain gives you a little higher boost to your military score. That's the only difference. I don't even recall any dialogue changes from preserving the base.

Zevox

[Binks]

Nothing significant. After finishing the mission to Cerberus' base (the start of the endgame) you'll get either the heart or brain of the Human Reaper for destroying or preserving the base respectively. The brain gives you a little higher boost to your military score. That's the only difference. I don't even recall any dialogue changes from preserving the base.

Zevox

I didn't notice any either (friend destroyed, I saved). Kind of sad really how little impact the final choice of ME2 has. Of course if you save it you get to use a Reaper's brain for running boring calculations, so that was fun :P.

[Luzahn]

Nothing significant. After finishing the mission to Cerberus' base (the start of the endgame) you'll get either the heart or brain of the Human Reaper for destroying or preserving the base respectively. The brain gives you a little higher boost to your military score. That's the only difference. I don't even recall any dialogue changes from preserving the base.

Zevox

...Are they implying something there? That preserving the base is smarter, and destroying the base is more ...noble? emotional?