Equivalence of the Three Magics

[Willpowered One]

Hi, I was wondering to what extent Psionics, Arcane, and Divine were the same. I know that psionic resistance = arcane resistance, and since both arcane and divine are "spells", everything that talks about "spells" applies to both (unless it specifies "arcane" or "divine", of course).

But to what extent does power=spell, and manifest=cast?

If you need a particular example to explain one way or the other, I have one. Do Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection apply to psionic stuff as well?

If I need to clarify better, let me know, and I'll edit this post.

[Water_Bear]

Well, first of all, Spell Resistance is not necessarily Power Resistance. It relies on the campaign's position with regards to Magic / Psionics transparency, which is spelled out in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Still, most games operate with full transparency, primarily because the alternative is a bit of a mess.

-Edit-
Removed TL;DR off-topic rant on spell-caster fluff. Nothing of value was lost.

[Water_Bear]

Eep. The dangers of posting at 1am.

Sorry, I didn't address your question too much. Basically; it depends on your campaign. The EPH has two or three versions of how Spells and Powers interact and each DM has to choose one.

Still almost all of them will pick the option which treats them as the same thing. Otherwise it would be way too much book-keeping and have weird repercussions.

[Willpowered One]

Well, first of all, Spell Resistance is not necessarily Power Resistance. It relies on the campaign's position with regards to Magic / Psionics transparency, which is spelled out in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Still, most games operate with full transparency, primarily because the alternative is a bit of a mess.

The main difference between Arcane/Divine/Infusions and Psionics is that Psionics is very fluid. A Psion can cast their most powerful or weakest Powers over and over without worrying about slots, seeing as the only factor is their total Power Point pool. Furthermore, almost every Power can be Augmented with a few more Power Points for vastly different effects; this is the kind of stuff Wizards burn Metamagic Feats and Clerics need piles of Nightsticks to do.

Within the Arcane/Divine/Infusion family, the main difference is the feel of the spell. With a few exceptions, Arcane spell-lists are devoid of healing spells and they have fewer direct combat-buffs. At the same time Divine spellcasters have relatively fewer direct damage and battlefield control spells (they still have more than enough). Infusions are more item-related, having to do with crafting and maintaining items over everything else.

Also; don't forget that there are other, more exotic types of 'magic.' Incarnum Soul-melds, Binding, even the infamous Truespeech are all legitimate and mechanically different ways to be magic.

tl;dr - Form Follows Function.
With a few exceptions, most Fluff can be extrapolated from the mechanics; Psions are flexible and mysterious.
Arcanists brim with raw magical power.
Divine Spellcasters are bolstered by the might of their faith.
Artificers are masters of artiface ( gee who could have seen that one coming...)
Binders are weirdos who let eldritch creatures hide out in their heads.
Soul-shapers... shape their souls...yeah.
Truenamers speak a ludicrously complex language of magic.

>.>

*sigh* I am aware that the equality I stated was campaign specific, but it seemed to present itself as saying "they aren't always equal, but it makes balance easier".

I also feel like you may have not understood my question. I am not asking "what is the difference between the three", I am asking "in terms of strict rules, when are they the same?"


For the sake of getting to my actual question faster, assume a campaign in which arcane, divine, and psionics are equally present in the world, and none are secret to the commonfolk.

Now, more examples

like, if I see "spellcaster" can I read that as "spellcaster/manifester"? (or whatever the correct term is)

Or if I see spells/spell-like abilities can I read it as spells/spell-like abilities/powers/power-like abilities?

Next, my original question. Do Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection apply to psionic stuff as well? Meaning, say in the case of PMP, if my foe buffed his/her AC with a psionic power, would the PMP help at all? Or with Mage Slayer, would I screw up the concentration checks for a Psion to stay psionically focused?

Edit: sorry for the irritation in my post. Today isn't the best ^^;

[Willpowered One]

Eep. The dangers of posting at 1am.

Sorry, I didn't address your question too much. Basically; it depends on your campaign. The EPH has two or three versions of how Spells and Powers interact and each DM has to choose one.

Still almost all of them will pick the option which treats them as the same thing. Otherwise it would be way too much book-keeping and have weird repercussions.

You ninja'd me!

OK, so it really is just "DM's word" i hate that >.<;

[Flickerdart]

The default (and less headachey) one is Psionic-Magic transparency - Null Psionics Field shuts down magic, Orange Ioun Stone gives +1 to Manifester Level and so forth. However, feats are not affected by Psionic-Magic transparency, so Mage Slayer and PMP don't hurt your manifester level, but also don't touch manifesting defensively or psionic defenses. Read more about it here.

[Willpowered One]

The default (and less headachey) one is Psionic-Magic transparency - Null Psionics Field shuts down magic, Orange Ioun Stone gives +1 to Manifester Level and so forth. However, feats are not affected by Psionic-Magic transparency, so Mage Slayer and PMP don't hurt your manifester level, but also don't touch manifesting defensively or psionic defenses. Read more about it here.

That..... that's kind of dumb.

If they go so far as to make the rule apply to everything else, why not feats? If in every other context powers=spells (basically), why shouldn't feats affect them the same, if they are basically equivalent?

*sigh* well, thanks for the link. much appreciate it.

[Flickerdart]

Because there are a lot spellcasting feats that would be pants-on-head retarded when applied to psionics.