League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo

[Recaiden]

Had a fantastic turn-around game the other day.

We had lost all 3 lanes, Inhibitors broken, Superminions and all 5 heroes all over the Nexus.
Nexus was left with 1/4 health, but we pushed them out and held on until our Inhibitors were back.
Managed to push back all 3 lanes slowly, over the next 8 minutes.
Popped one inhibitor, then pushed into the base and won it.

Yes, it was bots.
It still felt awesome.

We had a similarly wonderful turnaround in a Dominion game against beginner bots. Down to 50 health, team mentioned giving up, but we didn't, and finally pushed them back at 4 health left and won it.

[Qaera]

True-damage execute/nuke, refreshes when used to kill. Everybody, meet Killsteal, the Killsteal of Killsteal.

(hmm.. Team "So You Thought You Could Tank": Darius, Olaf, Ahri, Vayne or Corki, support of choice. Olaf/Darius in Top/Jungle, pending finding out which position Darius handles better.)

Some of my favorite champs: Katarina, Blitzcrank. Let's just say I'm a master securer of kills. AND THIS CHAMPION WILL BE MY RISE TO UNLIMITED POWAH

~ ♅

[J.Gellert]

Darius looks like "more of the same", but I suppose that's to be expected at nearly 100 champions.

Anyway; I really want to be good with Yorick, but I keep failing... Anyone have any tips for that?

[tyckspoon]

Darius looks like "more of the same", but I suppose that's to be expected at nearly 100 champions.

Anyway; I really want to be good with Yorick, but I keep failing... Anyone have any tips for that?

Buy a good mana item (Philostone/Chalice/Tear->Manamune, depending on how much mana you feel you need and what your lane opponent does.) Throw Famine ghouls at your opponent all lane, never leave. Ult when you need more damage, in the same situations a Zilean ult would be useful, and when you want something to facetank a tower and don't have a minion wave around.

Advanced Yorick Play: Learn where your control-pet button is so you can keep your ghouls/ult-copy on target correctly.

(It's probably harder than this in truth, but I don't have a very high opinion of Yorick's design, and this is basically what it feels like when I get stuck playing against one.)

[J.Gellert]

I know how to control ghouls :P

The problem is this: Everyone who knows a bit about Yorick is telling me to play aggressively, but Omen of Famine has a terribly short range, and I end up getting out-damaged in the exchange against most solo-top champs, even with the ghoul's lifesteal factored in.

[tyckspoon]

Are you only using Famine? That works for standing off a bit, farming, and trading harass, but if you really want to drive out your opponent you probably need to be *more* aggressive and willing to push the lane a bit- drop a Famine and a Pestilence on your opponent, walk up to them and double-tap them with autoattacks (autoattack->Omen of War; it's an AA reset so it'll go off immediately.) You will then have 3 stacks of your passive active while you walk away and should have won that trade.

[PersonMan]

Well, APmumu is hilarious and I know why people play him.

In post game chat: "1st time Amumu" 11/7/7; "1st time Olaf" 2/12/10.

He did catch on to the fact that he was being too aggressive early on, though, and started just BDing while Corki and I were 2v3ing. We lost, but it was always 2-for-2-and-one-almost-dead.

[Talesin]

I know how to control ghouls :P

The problem is this: Everyone who knows a bit about Yorick is telling me to play aggressively, but Omen of Famine has a terribly short range, and I end up getting out-damaged in the exchange against most solo-top champs, even with the ghoul's lifesteal factored in.

I would say it really depends on how they react to your harass and whether they are capable of fighting back. At my elo I find most people turn and run away or into the bushes. If they do this you've almost won it by doing very little because your just drop harass on them as soon as they come to last hit and if they engage in a proper battle ult and do your best to drop them.

Against someone who can clear a wave quickly (Galio, Cho etc) if you can stop them clearing it then that's good, if not just freeze the wave permanently near your turret so you're safe from ganks and then just farm and call for ganks.

If they don't you need to work out whether you'll come out on top in a fight or not. I've not had a fantastic number of people stick around to fight and in many cases it tends to be early enough that somone like Riven might beat me in a fight. Could be a good idea to go for some early defenses, ie start cloth 5, then get your mana regen up so you can outlast their harass and hopefully start whittling them down.

Edit: Also what Tyck said, the autoattack reset on Q is a god send for the amount of damage you can do.

[The Shadowmind]

How to deal with lvl 2 Shaco's counter jungle?
Just had a game as jungle lulu, where the shaco boxed the wraith bush, I avoided them by just killing the wraiths over the wall, got shaco low when he tried to kill me, but then he runs all around the jungle making it not safe to take any of the creeps; since I used my potions during the chase.

[Dada]

Well.. Lulu is a weak jungler, while Shaco has very strong counterjungling. If you know you are going to be up against a Shaco and are worried about him counterjungling you, you need to play a stronger jungler yourself. Shyvana, Mundo and Lee Sin are some examples.

How counterjungling ends up playing out is very much dependant on the teams as well. If Shaco is alone in your jungle, your laners need to come and force him out, and later in the game they should help you ward up the entrances.

Basically.. if you play a weak jungler like Lulu and get counterjungled, you depend on your team to bail you out - you do not have sufficient presence to do it yourself.

[Neoseanster]

How to deal with lvl 2 Shaco's counter jungle?
Just had a game as jungle lulu, where the shaco boxed the wraith bush, I avoided them by just killing the wraiths over the wall, got shaco low when he tried to kill me, but then he runs all around the jungle making it not safe to take any of the creeps; since I used my potions during the chase.

The two ways to deal with counterjungling are to (a): catch and kill the counterjungler with the help of your team, or (b): go counterjungle them right back. If you know Shaco's in your jungle, you can just go take his instead. This is risky in itself, of course... learning when and how it's appropriate to counterjungle takes a lot of experience and some guesswork even then, if you were wrong about where he is or if the other team has their jungle entrances warded you can get caught and killed. But that's what separates mediocre junglers from good ones, it's just something you need to practice.

Also, as Dada notes, a stronger duelist like Lee Sin, Trundle, etc can deal with Shaco counterjungling simply by remaining at rather high HP throughout their route and killing him when he pops up to attack. But I assume this was in a blind pick game and you weren't able to pick a different champion in response to seeing the other team had a Shaco.

What can also help if you expect counterjungling is to adjust your route so that it more minimally impacts you. For example, you can do something unexpected and start at the elder lizard and get your team to give you enough aid to let you kill it without needing to smite, and then immediately go and kill the ancient golem with smite on your own. Swiftly securing your buffs like this limits the impact counterjungling can have on you, because you'll probably already be level 3 and double buffed, and thus well able to fight a counterjungler who came straight from their first buff camp expecting you to have started at blue, and well ready to just ignore him and go gank a lane besides.

[Eldariel]

I know how to control ghouls :P

The problem is this: Everyone who knows a bit about Yorick is telling me to play aggressively, but Omen of Famine has a terribly short range, and I end up getting out-damaged in the exchange against most solo-top champs, even with the ghoul's lifesteal factored in.

Against whom? It always depends on the lane. Remember though that your Q is an autoattack reset; if enemy jumps on you that's a massive damage increase (also a ton of damage from passive + ghouls themselves). In general, you just EW EW EW people. And unload with EWaaQaa if engaged but you prefer to just harass with EW since few top laners can respond that equally.

The two ways to deal with counterjungling are to (a): catch and kill the counterjungler with the help of your team, or (b): go counterjungle them right back. If you know Shaco's in your jungle, you can just go take his instead. This is risky in itself, of course... learning when and how it's appropriate to counterjungle takes a lot of experience and some guesswork even then, if you were wrong about where he is or if the other team has their jungle entrances warded you can get caught and killed. But that's what separates mediocre junglers from good ones, it's just something you need to practice.

Also, as Dada notes, a stronger duelist like Lee Sin, Trundle, etc can deal with Shaco counterjungling simply by remaining at rather high HP throughout their route and killing him when he pops up to attack. But I assume this was in a blind pick game and you weren't able to pick a different champion in response to seeing the other team had a Shaco.

What can also help if you expect counterjungling is to adjust your route so that it more minimally impacts you. For example, you can do something unexpected and start at the elder lizard and get your team to give you enough aid to let you kill it without needing to smite, and then immediately go and kill the ancient golem with smite on your own. Swiftly securing your buffs like this limits the impact counterjungling can have on you, because you'll probably already be level 3 and double buffed, and thus well able to fight a counterjungler who came straight from their first buff camp expecting you to have started at blue, and well ready to just ignore him and go gank a lane besides.

There are some cases where it's fairly normal too. Almost invariably, if I'm jungling Amumu, I've just given up going to my own red jungle unless I'm playing with a premade. The enemy jungler will almost always gank me at red and unless I can rely on my team to come and kill them, I'd rather just take my chances and take their jungle (and if I see the enemy jungler there, I can just go to do my red; loses little time but 100% safe).

Generally this means we just trade jungles with the enemy jungler wasting a bunch of time waiting for me to come to my red for the gank; and I can gank bot with Bandage on level 3.

[Daverin]

This Darius guy... he seriously might just make me come back briefly to check him out. Nothing like a guy who combines the looks of Axe, Garen, and Hector from FE who has a lot of wild axe swings, blood, and pulling enemies in (and if I am reading that right, in an arc?)

And, if the numbers work, he probably will be best built with most focus on tanky; he has a passive that will deal DoTs that, a pulling CC, something intended to stick to a target, and a killing move that rewards being in the fray and lasting long enough to finish them, while he lacks any real means of defense or avoiding damage that would make carry work.

Oh, and passive armor pen. Yep.

[Reinboom]

This Darius guy... he seriously might just make me come back briefly to check him out. Nothing like a guy who combines the looks of Axe, Garen, and Hector from FE who has a lot of wild axe swings, blood, and pulling enemies in (and if I am reading that right, in an arc?)

And, if the numbers work, he probably will be best built with most focus on tanky; he has a passive that will deal DoTs that, a pulling CC, something intended to stick to a target, and a killing move that rewards being in the fray and lasting long enough to finish them, while he lacks any real means of defense or avoiding damage that would make carry work.

Oh, and passive armor pen. Yep.

He's pretty wonderful.
The pull is a line shot, short 'yank' like thing. It doesn't let him close too much distance.

What his kit is built to actually do is devastate and rip apart other tanky DPS and characters who stay in the fray long, while not being able to touch squishy but mobile characters. He's a very interesting character for this.
At least, in my experience.

[TechnOkami]

He's pretty wonderful.
The pull is a line shot, short 'yank' like thing. It doesn't let him close too much distance.

What his kit is built to actually do is devastate and rip apart other tanky DPS and characters who stay in the fray long, while not being able to touch squishy but mobile characters. He's a very interesting character for this.
At least, in my experience.

Hum... I wonder If I'd like him...

[Daverin]

He's pretty wonderful.
The pull is a line shot, short 'yank' like thing. It doesn't let him close too much distance.

What his kit is built to actually do is devastate and rip apart other tanky DPS and characters who stay in the fray long, while not being able to touch squishy but mobile characters. He's a very interesting character for this.
At least, in my experience.

A counter-bruiser? Huh. I'm sure this is just me not using my creative thinking skills, but I don't think I know of any champion explicitly designed to fulfill this role (of course, carries do it, but they are just carries.)

That said, I am loving that description. Diving at a target in the back sort of feels... less than heroic, while most tanks are supposed to protect the carry. Having a guy who explicitly stands in the middle of their meat shields is cool.

That said, he still definitely has some sticking potential, unless his CDs are ungodly long even with the slow being lower on more DoTs. I imagine he can jungle somewhat well (although sustainless... if that even means anything anymore. I'm that out of touch.) How about laning? He seems like he might be lacking in top lane tools, and I am not entirely sure he can run off of bottom lane support gold alone unless kills are successful (he seems to have great damage and utility, but no apparent survivability.) Any experience on this?

[J.Gellert]

Unless a melee character has good CCs, or built-in damage from tankiness (like Olaf), then I don't think he'll ever work with tanky builds.

It's the same thing when people try to play (for example) Garen as a tank - You end up really tough, but everyone's ignoring you, and you can't do anything about it while they kill your team.

Darius does have the pull, a leap, and an area attack, but his pull is short-range and his leap is the ulti... Although yes, we can't be certain until we see him in-game.

[Qaera]

I played Darius in a bot game, you can check out the video on my livestream page. His dance is awesome, his ult is basically the most satisfying thing in the game.

~ ♅

[Daverin]

Unless a melee character has good CCs, or built-in damage from tankiness (like Olaf), then I don't think he'll ever work with tanky builds.

It's the same thing when people try to play (for example) Garen as a tank - You end up really tough, but everyone's ignoring you, and you can't do anything about it while they kill your team.

Darius does have the pull, a leap, and an area attack, but his pull is short-range and his leap is the ulti... Although yes, we can't be certain until we see him in-game.

To clarify, for me, tanky vs tanky dps/bruiser is basically the difference between one more defensive item vs one more offensive; he still will most certainly need a couple of damage items if he wants to succeed. I just mean that he will need to focus more on his defenses, while having potentially the damage to make up for it. Honestly, given the prevalence of tanky steroids for most frontliners, I do have slight concern, albeit one without any numeric backing at this point, for this guy who needs to work that much harder to stay alive. It really will involve having that much more dps steroids to make up for it.

[Math_Mage]

So, what's up with Jax? He really seems to be roflstomping top lane these days. Who goes toe-to-toe well with him?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So, what's up with Jax? He really seems to be roflstomping top lane these days. Who goes toe-to-toe well with him?

In my experience, you don't really toe-to-toe Jax, because he tends to win. I've harass traded to my advantage with Wukong and Jarven, but that's probably because I was just the better player in the matchup. I've heard Cho can just regen the damage, but I've never made it work. I'd also suspect Yorick could wreck Jax, but Yorick doesn't really lose lanes, so...

Nasus might also be able to survive long enough to start trading positively, but I haven't played the matchup enough to really make that call.

[tyckspoon]

Warning: Baseless armchair theorizing ahead; I don't have a lot of practical experience with or against Jax.

Jax thrives on an extended engagement; his passive (plus ult passive once at 6) and Counterstrike ensure that if you try to trade autoattacks with him you'll lose the engagement horribly. So I'm thinking you want to look more toward the phys-casters out of the traditional top lanes.. Pantheon, Renek, Riven? Characters with CCs and/or shields that ensure you at least get a chance to trade back when/if Jax decides to Leap Strike in for a hit. (And in Pantheon's case, spears to the face all lane erry lane.)

[Duos]

MAN have I been busy lately.

Sorry for not popping in more often, guys, but I've been busy looking for a job, and on top of that Home has a rather... flaky internet connection, and I don't want to risk cutting out on you guys mid-game or just lagging into uselessness, because you deserve better than that.

I'll try to fix that and play more often, but, you know, no guarantees.

[Eldariel]

Jarvan, Olaf and Lee Sin should be fine against Jax at least. His most dreadful weapon is the Leap Empower burst followed by Counterstrike and retreat; mobile champions can counterplay that with their own movement combo. And Olaf can just Reckless Swing every time. I understand the mages are mostly fine against him too and Riven should be decentish.

[TechnOkami]

I'd also suspect Yorick could wreck Jax, but Yorick doesn't really lose lanes, so...

Eheh, Eheh, yeah... right.

[Arbitrarity]

Riven can outplay Jax without too much difficulty. You can't duel him until you wear him down enough, but you can trade and take minimal damage. The problem is you need to play carefully; if he gets more than leap+empower and an autoattack, you're probably losing the trade. If he gets leap-auto-counterstrike-empower-relentless assault proc, you've definitely lost. Try to valor/stun him when he leaps on you, and run away from Counterstrike (keep a Broken Wings dash or two for this). After that, go to town. Make sure to force trades after he uses counterstrike, without it, he'll outright lose trades with you.

According to a few solomid guides, Lee, WW, Vlad, Yorick, Morde, and Teemo are effective as well. Probably has to do with sustain, mobility, and range.

[Qwertystop]

Apparently, 8 deaths in a half-hour game (with 4 kills and 12 assists, in a roughly equal-score (25-ish kills on both sides), as mid-Karma vs Kennen and Shyv (lots of ganks)) is feeding.

[Daverin]

DAT... IMPROVED... SR MAP. HRRRNNGH!!!

(I'm only somewhat exaggerating. I REALLY am thinking of coming back now. The only likely barrier would be me getting Diablo 3 and/or Skyrim, which depends on how much I feel like wasting money.)

I also have to ask, Reina, that you congratulate Riot on the turret idea. That is actually a really neat addition, especially since in the heat of a fight, it is quite possible to lose track of who is under fire.

Honestly, as far as the previews go, very well done all around (except for ranked, which I have no opinion on, having never played ranked.)

Also, with Darius, I think there are honestly only two character concepts I really would go to bat asking for: a boxer, and a grappler. And maybe someone who just gets stronger as allies get hurt.

[Lix Lorn]

And maybe someone who just gets stronger as allies get hurt.

Not sure that's likely to happen... since Kayle used to get stronger with deaths, but that made it a good thing for allies to be hurt. I believe Riot doesn't want a situation were allies gettin hurt is a good thing.

[Reinboom]

DAT... IMPROVED... SR MAP. HRRRNNGH!!!

(I'm only somewhat exaggerating. I REALLY am thinking of coming back now. The only likely barrier would be me getting Diablo 3 and/or Skyrim, which depends on how much I feel like wasting money.)

I also have to ask, Reina, that you congratulate Riot on the turret idea. That is actually a really neat addition, especially since in the heat of a fight, it is quite possible to lose track of who is under fire.

Honestly, as far as the previews go, very well done all around (except for ranked, which I have no opinion on, having never played ranked.)

Also, with Darius, I think there are honestly only two character concepts I really would go to bat asking for: a boxer, and a grappler. And maybe someone who just gets stronger as allies get hurt.

I will pass the congratulations along. The turret improvement idea goes to our great Dr. Davin, who does player research.

The 'stronger as allies get hurt' had a minor showing before. Kayle's Q using to deal more damage if an ally died nearby within a few seconds before using it.
It proved awkward, as players held back waiting as their teammates got hurt because they were afraid of not using it optimally.
It could probably be done (definitely be done) better, but that revealed a lot of tight stepping paths for such a concept.