How did Xykon survive his fight...

[Thump]

between him and Darth V? I mean, the Empowered Sunburst alone did, according to RAW, 25d6 +50%, for a minimum of 62 (or more), and an average of about 105 (give or take 20). Even with all Xykon's HD, he has... D4s.

The, the Crushing Hand spell did a lot of damage as well.

And finally, the 10d6 backlash from Superb Dispelling.

???

EDIT: He has D12s, but no bonus HP.

Still, how?

And also, Explosive Runes from the phylactery.

[raymundo]

You should read what happens to a character's hit dice once he attains lichdom. Or wait 5 more minutes for some other poster to point it out in painstakin detail ;)

[Thrawn183]

Undead have d12's, I don't remember him being blinded, so I assume he made his saving throw as well.

Also, we don't know how many hit die Xykon has, nor what kind of buffs he had up (he may have had temporary hit points).

[theNater]

Let's say Xykon's level 21. Average hit points would be around 142. Remember that Sunburst allows a save for half damage, so if he made it he'd be taking 52 instead of 105, leaving him at 90.

Then the Crushing Hand deals 2d6+12. Average is 25, leaving Xykon with 65.

10d6 averages out to 35, leaving Xykon with 30 after the Superb Dispelling.

And, last and least, Explosive Runes does 6d6 damage. The average here is 21. Xykon gets through that with 9 hit points left.

On average, if Xykon makes that first save, he survives.

[zimmerwald1915]

Actually, the Empowered Sunburst would deal 37d6 damage assuming Darth V's caster level counted as 25 or above. Empower multiplies the "x" in the expression "xd6", not the damage put out by the dice. Still, Xykon did make his reflex save. Thus the average damage dealt would be 64, and the minimum damage dealt would be 18.

The Crushing Hand would deal 2d6+12 damage, for an average of 19 and a minimum of 14.

Superb Dispelling would deal 10d6, for an average of 35, and a minimum of 10.

Explosive Runes would deal 6d6, for an average of 21 and a minimum of 6.

The average damage Xykon would have taken would have been 139 HP, and the minimum damage would have been 48. Xykon's average HP total, assuming he's level 21 and not level 27, is 136. His average HP total at level 27 is 175. Rich, from what I've been able to tell, tends to throw minimum spell damage at V and to give her near-max hit points per hit die. There's no reason he shouldn't extend the same courtesy to Xykon, particularly given the latter's lack of a CON score. In any case, it's perfectly believable that Xykon would survive his fight with Darth V.

[Forikroder]

Let's say Xykon's level 21. Average hit points would be around 142. Remember that Sunburst allows a save for half damage, so if he made it he'd be taking 52 instead of 105, leaving him at 90.

Then the Crushing Hand deals 2d6+12. Average is 25, leaving Xykon with 65.

10d6 averages out to 35, leaving Xykon with 30 after the Superb Dispelling.

And, last and least, Explosive Runes does 6d6 damage. The average here is 21. Xykon gets through that with 9 hit points left.

On average, if Xykon makes that first save, he survives.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html

the explosive runes was more like a light breeze to him it was flashy but only managed to knowck away the Phylactery

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I could have sworn it was mentioned somewhere that Xykon was Level 28. I'm probably wrong, but I can't get that number out of my head.

[Kish]

Xykon's level has never been explicitly mentioned in the comic.

It is possible to draw conclusions about a minimum level based on the epic spells+twelfth-level spell slots he's demonstrated, but that hinges on Rich having bothered to reason it out that far and along the same reasoning path one is following, of course.

[hamishspence]

I think that had to do with what epic feats he'd need to do things like "maximised energy drain" (assuming core and no magic items like Sudden Metamagic rods).

[King of Nowhere]

I'd be surprised if Xykon hadn't invested a lot of money on protective equipment. He probably took less than the nominal damage.

plus, all characters tend to resist much more damage than they should, according to raw. Take for example roy vs thog, that should have ended in a couple of rounds. And V takes against samantha a maximized ligthning bolt, whose reflex dc was failed by haley.
I already theorized that in ootsworld hit die are maximized. That, or rich don't really care to keep an accurate hp count

[BatRobin]

Plot armor.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'd be surprised if Xykon hadn't invested a lot of money on protective equipment. He probably took less than the nominal damage.

plus, all characters tend to resist much more damage than they should, according to raw. Take for example roy vs thog, that should have ended in a couple of rounds. And V takes against samantha a maximized ligthning bolt, whose reflex dc was failed by haley.
I already theorized that in ootsworld hit die are maximized. That, or rich don't really care to keep an accurate hp count

That is very possible, especially for small-HD characters. Another possibility, and neither possibility is mutually exclusive, is that damage tends toward the minimum except for appropriately dramatic strikes.

[Myou]

Actually, the Empowered Sunburst would deal 37d6 damage assuming Darth V's caster level counted as 25 or above. Empower multiplies the "x" in the expression "xd6", not the damage put out by the dice. Still, Xykon did make his reflex save. Thus the average damage dealt would be 64, and the minimum damage dealt would be 18.

But it's the 6 is xd6 that is variable - it's a number between 1 and 6. The x is a set value determined by your level.

Empower should make xd6 into xd9.

[Raimun]

Xykon survived because it was too early for him to die.
(I mean, not die as, you know, he's already dead but he's not dead-dead but still not really living either and...)

[The Wanderer]

Because the author doesn't give a damn about upholding D&D rules in the story.

Funny > Plot.

Plot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rules

[Forikroder]

Because the author doesn't give a damn about upholding D&D rules in the story.

Funny > Plot.

Plot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rules

hasnt it been theory crafted already that V didnt do enough damage to be able to kill Xykon?

he only hit him with a sunburst and a crushing hand i doubt 2 spells are enough to take down an epic level lich

[KillianHawkeye]

But it's the 6 is xd6 that is variable - it's a number between 1 and 6. The x is a set value determined by your level.

Empower should make xd6 into xd9.

Who has any d9s??

[ysath]

You forgot the quickened chain lightning.

[Forikroder]

Who has any d9s??

who doesnt have a d9?

true gamers have a d anything, even if it isnt actually used for anything, why do you think so many people own D12s?

You forgot the quickened chain lightning.

lichs are immune

[Snails]

I think that had to do with what epic feats he'd need to do things like "maximised energy drain" (assuming core and no magic items like Sudden Metamagic rods).

There are also feats that accomplish Sudden Metamagic. It would suit some of his precious spell selections to invest in such a feat.

[Math_Mage]

But it's the 6 is xd6 that is variable - it's a number between 1 and 6. The x is a set value determined by your level.

Empower should make xd6 into xd9.

Text says:

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

"xd6" is a variable, numeric effect of a spell. At least from reading the feat description itself, no particular element of "xd6" is specified.

Now, it's my opinion that the appropriate course of action is to roll xd6 and multiply the result by 3/2, because that's the only way to guarantee equivalent probability distribution while increasing the result. I would also argue that semantics support my position--neither the die value nor the number of dice used is a "variable numeric effect," being constant for any instance of the spell, while the result certainly is a variable. But it's not made totally clear in the text what method should be used.

However, I would like to point out that your interpretation is especially unlikely, given that if using a spell that requires d3s, your interpretation leads to using d4.5s.

[Snails]

Roll damage the usual way, then add 1/2 that to the total.

Note that is not exactly the same as multiplying by 1.5, because a Maximized Empowered Fireball does (10 X 6) + .5(10d6) damage. The tricky part here is the empowered feat acts on the rolled damage. Maximize converts whatever is rolled into the maximum for each die. There is no order of operations, it happens in parallel.

BTW, the variable, numeric effect of a Magic Missile is d4+1. Empowered (9th level caster) becomes 1.5X(5d4 + 5).

[Querzis]

Plot armor.

Xykon survived because it was too early for him to die.
(I mean, not die as, you know, he's already dead but he's not dead-dead but still not really living either and...)

Because the author doesn't give a damn about upholding D&D rules in the story.

Funny > Plot.

Plot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rules

It incredibly annoy me that even after other people pointed out that even with the lowest possible level for Xykon and no protective items or buff Xykon would still survive on average, we get comments like those. Its not just that its perfectly possible for Xykon to have survived it. Give him a few buffs, items and level around 27 and he didnt even get down to half hp! And mind you, his level his debatable, even though I really dont see him being under 25 but you wont make me believe that a guy who spent 8 hours each day crafting magic items, got a ring to make him immune to fire and always have overland flight cast on him didnt have quite a few buffs and protective items.

By the way, Crushing Hand does non-magical lethal damage, it really does exactly the same type of damage as anything else grappling you, so it did not actually get past Xykon damage reduction (which is why he doesnt react to it at all, Xykon has been known to show pain when things actually harm him).

[Knaight]

Because the author doesn't give a damn about upholding D&D rules in the story.

Funny > Plot.

Plot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rules

That would explain why we get stuff like the blow by blow of the Miko fight happening exactly by rules, the consistency of rules being applied, the touches such as the petrifying beam of the prismatic beam cast at Qarr's friend being larger prior to said friends petrification, and all the other instances of Burlew upholding the rules just fine.

Or, you know, we can pretend that all that effort doesn't exist. That works too.

[ti'esar]

It incredibly annoy me that even after other people pointed out that even with the lowest possible level for Xykon and no protective items or buff Xykon would still survive on average, we get comments like those. Its not just that its perfectly possible for Xykon to have survived it. Give him a few buffs, items and level around 27 and he didnt even get down to half hp! And mind you, his level his debatable, even though I really dont see him being under 25 but you wont make me believe that a guy who spent 8 hours each day crafting magic items, got a ring to make him immune to fire and always have overland flight cast on him didnt have quite a few buffs and protective items.

By the way, Crushing Hand does non-magical lethal damage, it really does exactly the same type of damage as anything else grappling you, so it did not actually get past Xykon damage reduction (which is why he doesnt react to it at all, Xykon has been known to show pain when things actually harm him).

I agree. The Giant does not follow the D&D rules religiously, and can make mistakes when he is applying them. And certainly the funny>plot>rule formula is generally true for the comic. But there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Rich does write most fights with the rules in mind and that he even includes fairly subtle details about them in those fights (I'll point here to Xykon's backlash damage from Superb Dispelling, which for a long time I thought wasn't actually reflected in the comic).

So there's absolutely no reason to invoke the "power of plot" for why Xykon survived the damage he took from Darth V. As we see here, it can easily be explained within the rules.

the touches such as the petrifying beam of the prismatic beam cast at Qarr's friend being larger prior to said friends petrification

Huh - I never picked up on that before. Neat!

[Bundin]

It incredibly annoys me that people think that the author needs him/her rushing to his defense every time someone dares to imply something vaguely.. no, it's not even negative in this case, just an observation.. about author or comic.

Rich has repeatedly posted that funny + plot > rules. That he doesn't particularly care about the rules, that he doesn't write specifically with every single rule in mind, and that people who want rules-consistent comics should read something else because oots isn't that. "Word of God" actually confirms the statements that annoy you, especially the first one.

The way I see it, the only reason Xykon didn't die is because Rich decided it wasn't time, exactly like the quotes say. Sure, Rich "made" V cast spells with enough potential damage, that may or may not have been intentional (and there's no way to be sure) but Xykons survival has nothing to do with die rolls and everything to do with Rich deciding how the battle should end. Don't be oversensitive to posts that you consider to be "critique".

[Tricia]

Rich is familiar enough with D&D to know what a Lich of Xykon's approximate level could survive. While he didn't sit there and roll the dice, I'm fairly confident that he took a moment to think about what V would cast and if it was possible for Xykon to survive it. And, as has been shown in this thread, it doesn't take much thought to say "Yes". Yes, Rich doesn't always adhere to D&D rules. But that doesn't mean the first assumption should be that he threw them out the window, unless it's something obvious like a joke. Is it possible he did? Sure. But Rich generally decides that the rules don't matter for things like spell descriptions, or some random spell he wants to make up, or other minor minutia. Things like large complex fight sequences, he generally at least keeps the rules in mind, and in at least one case, completely scripts it out. While he does say "Plot > Rules", that doesn't mean that our first assumption should be "A wizard did it" or "Plot armor". If no other explanation suits the situation, sure...we can come to that conclusion. Or if Rich said he ignored the rules or forgot about a rule or something. But to immediately jump to that conclusion, especially when the rules of D&D pretty easily allow Xykon to survive without "Plot Armor" is just silly.

Besides which...some people find threads like this and extrapolating what we can guess about the characters in the comic to answer silly questions like this to be fun. So lighten up, Francis.

[rgrekejin]

I'll point here to Xykon's backlash damage from Superb Dispelling, which for a long time I thought wasn't actually reflected in the comic.

Can you point out to me where this is? I can't see it, even though I'm specifically looking for it.

[hamishspence]

And mind you, his level his debatable, even though I really dont see him being under 25 but you wont make me believe that a guy who spent 8 hours each day crafting magic items, got a ring to make him immune to fire and always have overland flight cast on him didnt have quite a few buffs and protective items.

He got an item of fire immunity (if his hint here is honest- but we never actually see it so we don't know what it is.

While "Ring of Energy Immunity" (an epic ring) is a fairly reasonable surmise, it would put his level way up, due to the restrictions of the Forge Ring feat:

Forge Epic Ring [Item Creation][Epic]
Prerequisites
Forge Ring, Knowledge (arcana) 35 ranks, Spellcraft 35 ranks.

Benefit
You can forge magic rings that exceed the normal limits for such items.

which would put him at level 32 minimum.

[Marlowe]

It incredibly annoys me that people think that the author needs him/her rushing to his defense every time someone dares to imply something vaguely.. no, it's not even negative in this case, just an observation.. about author or comic.

Rich has repeatedly posted that funny + plot > rules. That he doesn't particularly care about the rules, that he doesn't write specifically with every single rule in mind, and that people who want rules-consistent comics should read something else because oots isn't that. "Word of God" actually confirms the statements that annoy you, especially the first one.

The way I see it, the only reason Xykon didn't die is because Rich decided it wasn't time, exactly like the quotes say. Sure, Rich "made" V cast spells with enough potential damage, that may or may not have been intentional (and there's no way to be sure) but Xykons survival has nothing to do with die rolls and everything to do with Rich deciding how the battle should end. Don't be oversensitive to posts that you consider to be "critique".

High noise to signal ratio is always annoying. The entire thread is based on a simple mechanical misunderstanding that required a simple mechanical answer. The posts listed aren't "critique". They are simply clutter.