Justice League Assemble....

[Devonix]

Ok to help spare derailing the Avengers thread with DC discussion here's a thread to come to.

Should we get a Justice League movie and then move onto more single movies or the other way like in Marvel.

I actually think characters like Aquaman would do better being intruduced in a JLA movie where people can see him being awesome and then get interest grown up in a single movie. Since no one would go see a solo Aquaman movie without already being prepared for his awesome.

[Dr.Epic]

At the end of Dark Knight Rises, there'll be a post credit scene of Bruce Wayne in his mansion. Then, a figure emerges from the darkness and says "I'm Clark Kent. I'm here to talk to you about the Justice League of America."

[Traab]

I think at the least we would need to reboot superman and batman once again. They are the two big name icons that would probably be the biggest draws to a justice league film. Wonder Woman might be a challenge. Again we would probably have to see some sort of retcon of her origin and how she got involved with "mans world" As if I recall correctly, there have been many different versions going as far back as a world war 2 pilot crashing on themescrya and she argues to let him go and leaves with him to fight nazis or something.

The superheros or heroines can be subject to change as to who gets their own movie, and who gets to tag along with someone elses. As an example, we bring in John Stewart as our Green Lantern to start that character off fresh and ignore the other guy. Since green lanterns do alot of space travel, we could have a hawkgirl centered story in with him. That way we get two heroes for the cost of one movie. Others could get recruited during the big justice league film itself.

As you said Devo, after the big movie comes out, they can figure out which heroes seem to have the most demand for an origin movie or some other stand alone adventure and go from there. It would be nice to have other dc films than batman and superman. If they do it right, we could wind up with a few new superhero movie staple characters, to avoid grinding the two current big names into boredom with film after film.

[Zevox]

Well, who would we need for that?

Superman - Has had movies, but not a recent one, and I think the last one wasn't all that well-recieved (though that could be my imperfect memory, since I have not ever paid attention to his movies).

Batman - Has had plenty of movies, the most recent very well-recieved, with another due this year. I'd say he's set.

Wonder Woman - Has not had a movie, at least not in recent memory.

Green Lantern - Had a movie recently, but it was poorly received. The sequel that was planned might help, if it happens, or they could perhaps do a reboot, maybe with a different GL (John, Kyle, or Guy instead of Hal).

The Flash - Has not had a movie.

Plus you'd probably want at least one of Aquaman, the Martian Manhunter, or Hawkman/girl. Or maybe a slightly less well-known Justice League member like Firestorm or Green Arrow, or perhaps Cyborg since he's in the current comics iteration of the League.

But yeah, even among the big five, they've got work to do before they can expect something like a Justice League movie to pay off I think. If nothing else they'd need a successful Superman movie and one for at least one of the other three not-Supes not-Bats major members to garner interest I think.

Zevox

[leafman]

While I think doing a movie each for all 7 founding JL members might be overkill, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Aquaman really need strong films to bring them into the public eye so they won't be over shadowed by the Big Three in a JL movie. Plus, if they get movies, their origins can be explained there instead of being shoehorned into the main event.

[Thrawn183]

I'd actually just like to see a Flash movie. I've never seen a Superman movie I've liked, and while the new Batman movies are amazing, I won't want to see another for quite some time after this last one comes out.

[kpenguin]

At the end of Dark Knight Rises, there'll be a post credit scene of Bruce Wayne in his mansion. Then, a figure emerges from the darkness and says "I'm Clark Kent. I'm here to talk to you about the Justice League of America."

In an alternate universe where the Justice League movie is the most anticipated film of the summer...

[Sunken Valley]

You guys do know there is going to be a new Superman film? It is called "Man of Steel". Directed by Zack Snyder. Produced by Christopher Nolan. Coming 2013.

[Comet]

I've always liked the Justice League as this distant bunch of god-like figures.

Maybe someone could do a new Green Lantern movie with Kyle Rayner as the lantern. Establish him as an everyman, newbie sort of character and then drag him into a Justice League film and introduce the rest of the league through his eyes as the film goes on? The Justice League members don't exactly have complex personalities so I think it could work.

Could work with other characters, too, but I think a new attempt at a Green Lantern film would be a good thing in general and Rayner seems like the sort of lantern that would be easy for the audience to relate to.

[Traab]

Well, who would we need for that?

Superman - Has had movies, but not a recent one, and I think the last one wasn't all that well-recieved (though that could be my imperfect memory, since I have not ever paid attention to his movies).

Batman - Has had plenty of movies, the most recent very well-recieved, with another due this year. I'd say he's set.

Wonder Woman - Has not had a movie, at least not in recent memory.

Green Lantern - Had a movie recently, but it was poorly received. The sequel that was planned might help, if it happens, or they could perhaps do a reboot, maybe with a different GL (John, Kyle, or Guy instead of Hal).

The Flash - Has not had a movie.

Plus you'd probably want at least one of Aquaman, the Martian Manhunter, or Hawkman/girl. Or maybe a slightly less well-known Justice League member like Firestorm or Green Arrow, or perhaps Cyborg since he's in the current comics iteration of the League.

But yeah, even among the big five, they've got work to do before they can expect something like a Justice League movie to pay off I think. If nothing else they'd need a successful Superman movie and one for at least one of the other three not-Supes not-Bats major members to garner interest I think.

Zevox

Yeah, but the problem with the current batman/superman movies is, there isnt anything to tie them together into a justice league film. I mean, I dont think I can see THIS incarnation of batman being willing to add the rest of the world into his sphere of things he has to take care of. And the last superman movie sucked, so rebooting it into something better would be a good idea anyway. But I do agree that the lesser known but still necessary members of the main league should get their own origin movies so they dont feel tacked on. Its why I suggested the combo john stewart/hawkgirl film. You could cover them both in one film and do an excellent job of establishing their histories, give them a reason to be on earth, and even establish their relationship, all before the main event movie so it can concentrate on that instead of fleshing out everyone but batman/superman's character.

[Devonix]

Don't see them doing a John Stewart Hawkgirl movie. Other than Justice League cartoon and really only two seasons of that, the two have never really interacted in comics and Hawkgirl isn't a mainstay of the League

[DiscipleofBob]

They'd need to reboot pretty much everyone. I actually recently watched the Green Lantern movie on Netflix, and it was good enough that they could keep Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan and I'd be happy.

Superman they'd need to reboot, but I understand that something's in the works right now so we'll see.

As much as I love the Nolanverse Batman, I just don't think he'd work for a Justice League movie. The reason the Nolanverse works is because that Batman is grounded in enough reality that suddenly introducing aliens and amazons would just be out of place.

Wonder Woman could be done really well if someone just say down and wrote her. Probably very similar to the Thor movie.

I'd want to see a well-done Aquaman and Flash movie as well.

Either way, Green Arrow would have to be in the final incarnation of the League at the least. And Martian Manhunter would be difficult, but maybe they could introduce him in the actual Justice League movie itself as they did with animated version.

[Traab]

Don't see them doing a John Stewart Hawkgirl movie. Other than Justice League cartoon and really only two seasons of that, the two have never really interacted in comics and Hawkgirl isn't a mainstay of the League

Ok, its all good, I was just offering a suggestion as to how you could combine a couple of characters into a single origin film, im sure there are plenty of other ways. As an example, superman and aquaman. During the reboot of superman, his adventure has him dealing with a threat that involves getting help from aquaman, and that way we get his backstory and establish a rapport between them instead of wasting a half hour doing that in the main event. Or make up a wonder woman adventure where she leaves themescrya chasing down a rogue amazon who winds up in gotham. Basically, give us enough of a connection between heroes so it makes sense that they would team up when they need to.

[shadow_archmagi]

In an alternate universe where the Justice League movie is the most anticipated film of the summer...

In an alternate universe where The Avengers came out thirty four years earlier...

[Soras Teva Gee]

The only reason we don't have a Justice League movie is someone on the Warner Brothers end is so incompetant it goes from being sad to hilarious then back round again at least three times.

And I challenge there needs to be any set-up. Go watch the beginning of the DCAU series. Only Supes and Bats had been introduced worth much of anything. Flash had all of one episode in S:TAS and it was different GL. Yet everyone gets perfectly serviceable introductions for a coherent story of movie length.

[DiscipleofBob]

The only reason we don't have a Justice League movie is someone on the Warner Brothers end is so incompetant it goes from being sad to hilarious then back round again at least three times.

And I challenge there needs to be any set-up. Go watch the beginning of the DCAU series. Only Supes and Bats had been introduced worth much of anything. Flash had all of one episode in S:TAS and it was different GL. Yet everyone gets perfectly serviceable introductions for a coherent story of movie length.

I have to disagree in that the Animated Series has a much different dynamic than a big-screen live action blockbuster.

In order for a full movie version to work, there needs to be a setup.

You can't just have a guy in red spandex show up and say "Sup, guys, I'm the Flash. I tried showing you my origin story but it lasted less than a frame because I'm just that fast." along with an amazon, Robin Hood, a guy in a batsuit, etcetera and expect it to work.

The Avengers worked because they started the setup process over Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and the Hulk movies, and even then it's kind of a miracle that the Avengers movie worked at all.

[Soras Teva Gee]

You can't just have a guy in red spandex show up and say "Sup, guys, I'm the Flash. I tried showing you my origin story but it lasted less than a frame because I'm just that fast." along with an amazon, Robin Hood, a guy in a batsuit, etcetera and expect it to work.

That's just it, you don't really need an origin story. We've all just been sold on this idea, and nobody challenges it.

However there IS evidence to the contrary. Take The Incredible Hulk, it barely touches on the matter in the credits and its rather evidently not giving a crap about Ang Lee's venture. Watchmen just runs with the idea of them. And in the Avengers we have Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Nick Fury all basically running without it. Why don't they need origins? Because they don't have superpowers that need explaining? Screw that its a mere detail at this point.

People aren't ignorant of how superheroes work in general these days, the details of any particular hero are just that... details. Get the right plot and you don't need an origin story you just need an introduction or seven, which is different.

[Traab]

Except iron man had an origin story, hulk had an origin story, thor had an origin story, cap had an origin story. Not everyone needs one, but you have to cover at least some of the backstories and justifications for the big join up before the actual join up or else you waste too much time establishing why the hell these half dozen lone wolves should suddenly agree to work together. They dont all need one, but enough of them do to keep the grand finale of a film moving along. Otherwise they might as well just set it up as the justice league trilogy and have the first film be setting them up and establishing who the enemy is, the second film is the real meat of the war, and the third is the grand resolution.

[DiscipleofBob]

That's just it, you don't really need an origin story. We've all just been sold on this idea, and nobody challenges it.

However there IS evidence to the contrary. Take The Incredible Hulk, it barely touches on the matter in the credits and its rather evidently not giving a crap about Ang Lee's venture. Watchmen just runs with the idea of them. And in the Avengers we have Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Nick Fury all basically running without it. Why don't they need origins? Because they don't have superpowers that need explaining? Screw that its a mere detail at this point.

People aren't ignorant of how superheroes work in general these days, the details of any particular hero are just that... details. Get the right plot and you don't need an origin story you just need an introduction or seven, which is different.

We comic fans would probably be just fine sure, but a movie needs to keep in mind a larger audience.

The Hulk's origin movie was meant to be Edward Norton's movie (or perhaps more accurately the Avengers tie-in movie) which tied in to the Ang Lee movie without directly acknowledging it. Black Widow we had introduced in Iron Man 2, and Hawkeye we had introduced in Thor. We don't need much origin story from them other than "We're secret agents. We're awesome. Deal with it." If Thor, Cap, and Iron Man hadn't had their origin movies and showed up in full bright red and blue costumes, we wouldn't have gotten the necessary feel for the characters that let them shine in the Avengers movie. It would break a lot of suspension of disbelief.

And that's another thing, it's not just about the original comic characters, we need to grow used to the actors playing the characters so we can believe that Robert Downey Jr. IS Iron Man and Chris Evans IS Captain America (and definitely not Human Torch). The only reason Hulk doesn't fall under this is because during all the important parts he's a big, green CGI guy.

It works in the animated series because the audience is either comprised of children or adults who are already at least geeky enough to watch animated superheroes (not that that is in any way, shape or form a bad thing).

Watchmen works completely differently because it's a deconstruction of the superhero genre, and separate from a movie like Avengers or Nolan's Batman.

[Xondoure]

They'd need to reboot pretty much everyone. I actually recently watched the Green Lantern movie on Netflix, and it was good enough that they could keep Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan and I'd be happy.

Superman they'd need to reboot, but I understand that something's in the works right now so we'll see.

As much as I love the Nolanverse Batman, I just don't think he'd work for a Justice League movie. The reason the Nolanverse works is because that Batman is grounded in enough reality that suddenly introducing aliens and amazons would just be out of place.

Wonder Woman could be done really well if someone just say down and wrote her. Probably very similar to the Thor movie.

I'd want to see a well-done Aquaman and Flash movie as well.

Either way, Green Arrow would have to be in the final incarnation of the League at the least. And Martian Manhunter would be difficult, but maybe they could introduce him in the actual Justice League movie itself as they did with animated version.

I don't see them using Green Arrow. At least not anytime soon. They would get accused of adding in a token archer just to copy the Avengers (however unfair that might be.)

[DiscipleofBob]

I don't see them using Green Arrow. At least not anytime soon. They would get accused of adding in a token archer just to copy the Avengers (however unfair that might be.)

A very unfortunate, if accurate, point indeed.

[Fragenstein]

Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman are all supposed to be in development.

They were working on a JLA film that was shelved in 2008 and not officially cancelled until 2010. Jeff Robinov has stated that he plans on getting one out there, however. Who knows if he'll manage to get it done.

Holy frag on a cracker... Lobo is getting a 2013 movie? Seriously? On the plus side, I kind of liked Kitty Galore...

[Soras Teva Gee]

We comic fans would probably be just fine sure, but a movie needs to keep in mind a larger audience.

At this point I think we can establish everyone's familiar enough with comics/superhero tropes to follow along. Or y'know just don't care.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that people said a team-up like the Avengers wouldn't work because the public couldn't follow it without being comic nerds. That was wrong. Hell let's not forget the whole genre was revived by a team movie right off the bat that used nothing more then Stan Lee's lazy excuse to not explain superpowers.

The Hulk's origin movie was meant to be Edward Norton's movie (or perhaps more accurately the Avengers tie-in movie) which tied in to the Ang Lee movie without directly acknowledging it.

Yet despite being a reboot it didn't bother with the origin consuming the whole movie.

Black Widow we had introduced in Iron Man 2, and Hawkeye we had introduced in Thor. We don't need much origin story from them other than "We're secret agents. We're awesome. Deal with it." If Thor, Cap, and Iron Man hadn't had their origin movies and showed up in full bright red and blue costumes, we wouldn't have gotten the necessary feel for the characters that let them shine in the Avengers movie. It would break a lot of suspension of disbelief.

Stop and think for a second. The DC equivalentis Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. And do you seriously think there is someone not familiar with Superman and Batman, two of the most iconic characters ever. So abbreviate Diana's identity and departure as directly inspired by the crisis and you're set.

I think everyone is underestimating the public ability to suspend disbelief.

And that's another thing, it's not just about the original comic characters, we need to grow used to the actors playing the characters so we can believe that Robert Downey Jr. IS Iron Man and Chris Evans IS Captain America (and definitely not Human Torch). The only reason Hulk doesn't fall under this is because during all the important parts he's a big, green CGI guy.

Which is why Mark Ruffalo did such a good job they are suddenly talking a Hulk 2 again. Establishing a character takes a scene not a whole movie... hell that's how it works in most films.

It works in the animated series because the audience is either comprised of children or adults who are already at least geeky enough to watch animated superheroes (not that that is in any way, shape or form a bad thing).

Storytelling is universal.

Geek culture does not arise from any lack in the story but because people reject certain things as childish (which is in fact the most childish thing of all) or whatever. Something which the adding lackluster origin stories does not actually resolve.

Watchmen works completely differently because it's a deconstruction of the superhero genre, and separate from a movie like Avengers or Nolan's Batman.

You can't deconstruct what hasn't been constructed to begin with.

[Traab]

Stop and think for a second. The DC equivalentis Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. And do you seriously think there is someone not familiar with Superman and Batman, two of the most iconic characters ever. So abbreviate Diana's identity and departure as directly inspired by the crisis and you're set.

I think everyone is underestimating the public ability to suspend disbelief.

The problem with this is the current incarnations of both superman and batman are not really positioned well for a justice league movie. Even if they were, they would still need a connection that brings them together. You cant just toss out a single film and have it drag together a half dozen separate heroes who have never met before (in this version) and manage to form up a cohesive team and take down a threat that didnt exist until the movie itself came out. In the long run it would be better to reboot the various heroes again, and use these stand alone movies to build up interest in the big justice league crossover film. Its a gamble as if the stand alones dont make a big splash, noone will want to see the finale, but without that buildup, it wont have the same epic feeling to it.

Superman needs a return to his golden boy scout ultimate hero persona.

Batman needs to be altered so sci fi elements can actually be incorporated. Tossing the current batman into a world where he has to fight darkseid and parademons would be way to huge of a shift in how his world works. So we would need a film that covers say, a clayface style villain, or poison ivy from the animated series. Bad guys with unusual abilities that make it possible to stretch our suspension of disbelief when suddenly aliens start popping out of boom tubes shooting laser halberds at him.

Wonder Woman needs an intro. Its been so long since there was anything other than a comic on her that I doubt most people are even aware of what the current back story is for her. I know I damn sure dont know it. Last thing I remember is watching linda carter deflecting bullets with her bracelets.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Plot. I've said this pretty much since the issues came out -- the JLA movie needs to be a reworking of the Rage Of Angels storyline. The cartoon-verse did the white martians already, so we really can't rehash that again.

RE: Origins \ Prequels. I agree with the point that these aren't *required*, but I will insist that part of the reason Avengers succeeded was that it had them. On the other hand, you'd now risk the inevitable argument that you were copying what Marvel did...

I think the biggest danger here lies in viewing the individual films as "trying out" for a JLA movie. The Green Lantern movie, for example, was not the fault of the cast. It was the fault of the multiple scripts and poor editting/production.

I have to admit it would be tempting to spend the first hour/so of the film just having them interact without revealing them as the superheroes.

RE: Casting. Interesting note, the woman who plays Fury's right-hand in Avengers was Whedon's pick to play Wonder Woman. I wouldn't want to be the person at Warner right now responsible for Whedon not making that film, would you? Anyway...

[Devonix]

I'd love to see a Superman Batman movie and an Aquaman Wonderwoman movie.

Aquaman/Wonderwoman practically writes itself as a co star duo

Themescera= Technological and magically advanced Underwater ancient city
Atlantis= Technological and magically advanced Island ancient city

Aquaman= Warrior King with super strength and magic
Wonderwoman= Warrior Princess with superstrength and magic

Wonderwoman = Champion of Athena
Aquaman = Champion of Posideon


Would be fun having Ares start some mischief and Posideon sending Aquaman as his representative to Themescera and them being forced to accept his help in solving some problem due to being a visiting monarch as well as representative of another Greek god. Him and Diana but heads but through him she learns respect for men and he for their city and the surface world.

I know in some continuities he was raised on land but I prefer keeping him just dealing with Atlantis until being forced to deal with the rest of the world.

[Traab]

I'd love to see a Superman Batman movie and an Aquaman Wonderwoman movie.

Aquaman/Wonderwoman practically writes itself as a co star duo

Themescera= Technological and magically advanced Underwater ancient city
Atlantis= Technological and magically advanced Island ancient city

Aquaman= Warrior King with super strength and magic
Wonderwoman= Warrior Princess with superstrength and magic

Wonderwoman = Champion of Athena
Aquaman = Champion of Posideon


Would be fun having Ares start some mischief and Posideon sending Aquaman as his representative to Themescera and them being forced to accept his help in solving some problem due to being a visiting monarch as well as representative of another Greek god. Him and Diana but heads but through him she learns respect for men and he for their city and the surface world.

I know in some continuities he was raised on land but I prefer keeping him just dealing with Atlantis until being forced to deal with the rest of the world.

Wait what? I thought themescrya was an island, not an underwater city. And as for technologically advanced, arent they sword and spear using warriors or something?

[Devonix]

Wait what? I thought themescrya was an island, not an underwater city. And as for technologically advanced, arent they sword and spear using warriors or something?

Yeah I've got the Themescera and Atlantis one flipped.

Themescera is advanced though The Sword, spear and sandals stuff is just from tradition and what their society is based on. They do have lazers and healing beams and Invisible planes ect.

There have been plenty of stories of agencies wanting to get their hands on the advanced tech of Themescera which is another reason for the isolationism of the nation.

[Traab]

Yeah I've got the Themescera and Atlantis one flipped.

Themescera is advanced though The Sword, spear and sandals stuff is just from tradition and what their society is based on. They do have lazers and healing beams and Invisible planes ect.

I thought the healing beam was some sort of magical device, and the same for the invisible jet. But wonder woman was never my cup of tea as a comic, so i dunno.

[Devonix]

I thought the healing beam was some sort of magical device, and the same for the invisible jet. But wonder woman was never my cup of tea as a comic, so i dunno.

Yeah it's another thing that they both have in common. the Tech/Magic mix of the cultures plus isolationism lead people to try and steal stuff from them as well as fans getting confused about parts of their societies.