Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, I'm going to have to drop out of competing this round. I'll know by Thursday if I can judge, though, and if I can, I'll be posting some criteria for y'all then.

[Aeryr]

Okay I sended A build, but the fluff might get revised before the dead line.

I am really busy with real life stuff so that's what I could do. I am not really satisfied with the build but I do like the concept a lot.

[Feytalist]

Seems like there are very few builds so far. I might slap one together after all. I already have the basic build in my head anyway, I just scrapped it because I thought it would be way too obvious and unoriginal. But with so little competition, I might as well give it a try.

[Golden Ladybug]

Yeah, I think I'm going to drop out. My build idea comes online at before the 10s, and then nothing else happens up to 20

Oh well, next time.

[Thurbane]

seriously, 3/10ths casting is making me weep. I thought that master of masks had the lowest nonzero casting progression, but I now know I am wrong.

I think it helps to think of it as not so much a gish or casting class, but a mundane, full BAB class with a little casting progression tacked on as an afterthought. (Although the fact you need at least some casting to qualify doesn't help with that).

[Aeryr]

I think it helps to think of it as not so much a gish or casting class, but a mundane, full BAB class with a little casting progression tacked on as an afterthought. (Although the fact you need at least some casting to qualify doesn't help with that).

That and being FR specific in a book set in a time when Lolth (The drow goddess) is silent (doesn't confer spells) doesn't help, at all.

[Kuulvheysoon]

That and being FR specific in a book set in a time when Lolth (The drow goddess) is silent (doesn't confer spells) doesn't help, at all.

I really dn't see the relevance here - the Drow Judicator is a servitor of Selvetarm, not Lolth.

[Aeryr]

I really dn't see the relevance here - the Drow Judicator is a servitor of Selvetarm, not Lolth.

Just my personal reading of the drow fluff. I don't see any God but Lolth in the Drow pantheon, others are no more than saints.

And even if the drow judicator entry talks about making an "unholy pledge to Selvetram" it doesn't imply that the Drow Judicator has to have Selvetram as a patron deity nor actually serve it (drow judicators serve high ranking clerics of Lolth). Though it is true that the special requirement talks about clerics of Selvetram (or Lolth) administering a rite, but I still don't like the idea of any drow not revering Lolth.

Even if Selvetram is a valid God, taking Lolth out, leaves with really few options for a God (that provides magic) and is not against Lolth in the drow pantheon.

[Z3ro]

but I still don't like the idea of any drow not revering Lolth.

There are whole groups and cities of drow that don't worship Lolth. There's a whole pantheon of other gods the drow worship; what are they doing all day, just hanging out, being bummed about how nobody worships them?

[Aeryr]

As I said it was just a fluff problem.

Most of the other gods in the drow pantheon (in faerun) get killed or deflect the pantheon sooner than later.

Kiaransalee stopped existing due to a lack of worshipers.

Ghaunadaur left the pantheon (and was mostly revered by aberrations).

Selvetarm and Vhaeraun get killed by Eilistraee.

Eilistraee gets killed by the Lady penitent.

Of course by the time that happens Lolth has returned.

[mattie_p]

And the drow dudes have absolutely no reason to worship Lolth. She's the one keeping them down! That is half the population who are looking for another deity right there.

[Amphetryon]

And the drow dudes have absolutely no reason to worship Lolth. She's the one keeping them down! That is half the population who are looking for another deity right there.

They're all CG rebels looking to throw off the yoke of their CE oppressors anyway.

[Z3ro]

As I said it was just a fluff problem.

Most of the other gods in the drow pantheon (in faerun) get killed or deflect the pantheon sooner than later.

Kiaransalee stopped existing due to a lack of worshipers.

Ghaunadaur left the pantheon (and was mostly revered by aberrations).

Selvetarm and Vhaeraun get killed by Eilistraee.

Eilistraee gets killed by the Lady penitent.

Of course by the time that happens Lolth has returned.

To be fair, much of that occured after the Underdark book was written.

[Piggy Knowles]

So, right now I have two options. One is to use what I think is a pretty cool build, that fits really well thematically, but that honestly could probably do a lot better without the secret ingredient.

The other uses the SI's abilities, but involves shoe-horning a bunch of other features in just to make it work, and has a sort of questionable rules interpretation thrown on top for extra fun.

They also share some build elements, so even if I had the time to prepare two builds, I'd still get slammed in Originality.

So which do I go with? Do I get hammered in UotSI, or in Elegance? Will I get inspired by something else? Or will I just get frustrated and not end up submitting either build? No one knows!

Oh, the trials and tribulations of the Iron Chef....

[Venger]

I think it helps to think of it as not so much a gish or casting class, but a mundane, full BAB class with a little casting progression tacked on as an afterthought. (Although the fact you need at least some casting to qualify doesn't help with that).

see, I tried that, and I would normally be inclined to agree if it didn't require casting to get in in the first place. if i was just that, a caster dip would be whatever. however, the BA prereq throws a wrench into that

the casting thing caused my first idea to actually not work (the SI gives so little casting, I forgot about the casting req so forgot to give casting lvls) so it's back to the drawing board

[Aeryr]

To be fair, much of that occured after the Underdark book was written.

That is completely true, I intended to say that I didn't feel right having a drow with a patron deity other than Lolth and I didn't feel right having a spellcaster in faerun with a deity that doesn't confer spells (that is actually going on on Underdark) so it was an important problem to me. The problem was just in my head, there are ways around it, it just didn't feel right.

In a completely unrelated point, good luck Piggy, I hope that you get your ideas straight. Maybe you can present the one that you feel less comfortable with after the reveal, or its main points.

[Kuulvheysoon]

As I said it was just a fluff problem.

Most of the other gods in the drow pantheon (in faerun) get killed or deflect the pantheon sooner than later.

Kiaransalee stopped existing due to a lack of worshipers.

Ghaunadaur left the pantheon (and was mostly revered by aberrations).

Selvetarm and Vhaeraun get killed by Eilistraee.

Eilistraee gets killed by the Lady penitent.

Of course by the time that happens Lolth has returned.

Ah, you're referring to the War of the Spider Queen/Lady Pentinent series(es?).

Those were actually to help ease the transition to 4E FR - where Lolth is the only goddess off the Drow.

It's written down somewhere (Grand History of the Realms, perhaps) that it fits in shortly before the Spellplague. It's like Richard Lee Byer's (I think that's who wrote it) series about the continuing adventures of Aliiza, where Mystra and all them die.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if you're playing 3.5e FR, all the gods are still in effect.

[Aeryr]

Fair enough even if at the time the underdark was written Lolth is absent.

It seems that this round is going to be a good round to practice judging.

[mattie_p]

I'm really not coming up with anything that I like this round. Every idea tastes so... plain.

[T.G. Oskar]

Okay I've been messing around with my ideas for a couple of days and I feel I must drop this one . A lot of stuff is going on and I feel consistently exhausted .

Alright, I'm going to have to drop out of competing this round. I'll know by Thursday if I can judge, though, and if I can, I'll be posting some criteria for y'all then.

Yeah, I think I'm going to drop out. My build idea comes online at before the 10s, and then nothing else happens up to 20

Oh well, next time.

My only idea had no real use of this classes class features other than BAB, and that graph is a killer to fill out, maybe i'll start next time.

I'm really not coming up with anything that I like this round. Every idea tastes so... plain.

I dunno...I'm seeing a repetition of an earlier IC competition that had a lot of prospective judges but not many competitors. Even the real Iron Chef show had easy secret ingredients from time to time, to allow optimizers' minds to relax instead of trying to wring all that's possible into a build that might just seem a wee too overworked.

Fortunately there are three days remaining, so there might be some builds, but can the next IC be a tad easier rather than, say, cringing such as the Initiate? Or, heck, one that's so easy to build upon that we can break the submission mark! You know, one so that everybody can have its go at optimizing.

[Amphetryon]

I dunno...I'm seeing a repetition of an earlier IC competition that had a lot of prospective judges but not many competitors. Even the real Iron Chef show had easy secret ingredients from time to time, to allow optimizers' minds to relax instead of trying to wring all that's possible into a build that might just seem a wee too overworked.

Fortunately there are three days remaining, so there might be some builds, but can the next IC be a tad easier rather than, say, cringing such as the Initiate? Or, heck, one that's so easy to build upon that we can break the submission mark! You know, one so that everybody can have its go at optimizing.

So, let's see. The last two contests had 11, and 17 entries (and a few dropping who expected to enter), and folks complained that the judges were going to be over-worked. Now, with this ingredient - and before we see how many entries ultimately compete - folks are complaining that this ingredient is too difficult or too far from mainstream. One wonders how an ingredient can possibly be chosen that will avoid such complaints.

[Aeryr]

Don't worry Chairman, I like the ingredient.

It's a bit difficult to crack but it is a good ingredient. I am sure we will get some flavorful stuff, it's just that people are worrying because they haven't been able to pull anything yet, but there is still time to the deadline.

[Kuulvheysoon]

So, let's see. The last two contests had 11, and 17 entries (and a few dropping who expected to enter), and folks complained that the judges were going to be over-worked. Now, with this ingredient - and before we see how many entries ultimately compete - folks are complaining that this ingredient is too difficult or too far from mainstream. One wonders how an ingredient can possibly be chosen that will avoid such complaints.

Oh, this is an excellent ingredient.

I just really ran out of time. That and the fact that my build offered nothing after 12th level.

I really liked the fluff, though. I might try and do a rush job.

[Zeb]

This seems like an ideal Iron Chef ingredient, I had four ideas to start and have put in some work on 2, one should be in by the deadline and the other is dependent on work schedule.

I was even considering that with multiple points of entry/ideas this one would be so full of entry's that I would just judge, but less entry's means bigger chance for me to win so looks like I better polish up an entry (or 2)!

[Golden Ladybug]

I agree; its a great Ingredient, and if I was able to submit a build at level 10-15, I'd be laughing.

Oh well, I have got the day off today...maybe I'll do some more work on my concept...

[Narsis]

look at me waiting for the next IC challenge and turns out i completely didn't see the thread until today.

guess i wont be participating this time...

[Kuulvheysoon]

look at me waiting for the next IC challenge and turns out i completely didn't see the thread until today.

guess i wont be participating this time...

Amph's really good about posting links to the next competition in the thread - just subscribe and you shouldn't miss it.

[Akal Saris]

To be fair, much of that occured after the Underdark book was written.

Hell, I didn't know any of that had happened. And why was Ghaunadaur even in the drow pantheon, anyways?

Hell, why does he even exist? Jubilex is way cooler

[Thurbane]

So, let's see. The last two contests had 11, and 17 entries (and a few dropping who expected to enter), and folks complained that the judges were going to be over-worked. Now, with this ingredient - and before we see how many entries ultimately compete - folks are complaining that this ingredient is too difficult or too far from mainstream. One wonders how an ingredient can possibly be chosen that will avoid such complaints.

All I can humbly request is no PrCs with racial entry reqs for a while, please.

Hell, why does he even exist? Jubilex is way cooler

Good to know I'm not the only one who spells it that way... apparently, the "proper" spelling is Juiblex.

[Aeryr]

All I can humbly request is no PrCs with racial entry reqs for a while, please.

Good to know I'm not the only one who spells it that way... apparently, the "proper" spelling is Juiblex.

First, Beholder Mage for SI!

Second, really? Juiblex? That doesn't sound right at all.