Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[CurlyKitGirl]

Ehh, it adds a bit of drama. And it doesn't really bother me, also most of them aren't that central to the universe, just that seasons plot or just the finale. Also I just figure being around the Doctor means weirdness just sort of happens by default. The only one that really comes out of nowhere for me is Jack and Rory, which were both kind of cheap methods to bring a dead character back.

I think I don't have so much a problem with it because they all have the Doctor to compare themselves to. The Doctor is such a powerful force in this show that giving characters weirdness is one of the few ways I can think of to make any figment of balance between their interactions, without bastardizing the Doctors character to make him look worse. Now it doesn't have to be, but then the character would have to pull some ridiculous shenanigans without any explanation to keep up.

The Doctor is a wierdness magnet, and the people who travel with him end up becoming addicted to weirdness. And really, the only Companion-with-Suddenly-Superpowers that annoys me is (quelle surprise) Rose. And Rose made Jack immortal. And seeing as Jack's immortality has zero impact on me as a non-Torchwood person I just view him as a video game character with x lives.
I rather liked Mickey, Martha was a mostly boring bunny-face of (let's face it) a smarter Rose. Donna's cool. I like Donna.
A Companion has to stand out somehow to avoid being overshadowed by the Doctor, and if I were to limit myself to the Nu Who that I have seen, it has to be Donna and Rory. Donna has charisma and a forceful personality, and I just love how she develops as a person and as an equal to the Doctor. Rory similarly (though I've only seen series 6 onwards) is forceful and moral in a way that, actually, makes him better than the Doctor.
Smarter? Not necessarily, but Rory is the kind of person who would naturally become a leader in real life by earning the respect of those around him.

They somehow manage with Lady Vastra and Strax. Also, getting an alien commentary on various levels of human culture could be fun. And let's be honest, science works like magic in this show. Having the Doctor come up with a "Homo-Transmogrificating Gyro-Plunge" that can change the characters so they look human and gives the actor a chance to have a go outside their normal costume would work just fine for present day Earth episodes.

Also, as an aside. Less episodes on Earth would also be nice.

Dienekes: a man after my own heart.

Perhaps there should be some form of online petition?

[dps]

The thing is, in The Five Doctors, the three on-screen Doctors were fighting for screen time. The less said about the 90s Children in Need abomination the better. If the others are involved, I think it should be in extremely minor roles. Or perhaps not all of them, but just a few as part of the story line. The Eleven Doctors seems rather unwieldy as a concept, and I'm not sure it could be pulled off well.

I've read speculation that the anniversary show will feature all 11 Doctors, but the past Doctors will be seen in flashbacks, using old footage.

[Dr. Simon]

Dude, really? Also: grammatically.

Yes, typical, I think there is a universal constant rule that any attempt to correct someone's grammar itself includes an error of some kind.

But yes, really, the fewer/less thing is something of a bugbear of mine, moreso when used in news items or in official documentation. Internet forums*, being less formal, don't really count, hence the smiley. However, Starbucks and their claim and their claim that their recycled paperware means that "less trees" are used - No! you ignorant corporate purveyor of milky disappointment**, it means fewer trees. Less timber, fewer trees.

Ahem.

On the topic at hand, though, I understand that the whole of the Ecclestone series was set on or in orbit above Earth, partly due to budgetary constraints and partly because RTD thought that we the audience would care more about the fate of Earth than of some distant world.

To an extent he is correct - the more effective of the classic Who stories tend to involve Earth rather than an alien world with silver spandex, but there are some excellent ones that do take place on other worlds, notably Genesis of the Daleks. However, most of these are still quite rooted in normality in terms of design, as Curly has pointed out in her reviews there are visual similarities between the Kaleds and nazi officers in Genesis. Colony in Space has a similar design ethic to Westerns (cf Firefly), etc.

*Another usage that makes my inner pedant twitch - by rights it should be fora.

**Copyright Bill Bailey

[CelestialStick]

Yes, typical, I think there is a universal constant rule that any attempt to correct someone's grammar itself includes an error of some kind.

But yes, really, the fewer/less thing is something of a bugbear of mine, moreso when used in news items or in official documentation. Internet forums*, being less formal, don't really count, hence the smiley. However, Starbucks and their claim and their claim that their recycled paperware means that "less trees" are used - No! you ignorant corporate purveyor of milky disappointment**, it means fewer trees. Less timber, fewer trees.

Ahem.

On the topic at hand, though, I understand that the whole of the Ecclestone series was set on or in orbit above Earth, partly due to budgetary constraints and partly because RTD thought that we the audience would care more about the fate of Earth than of some distant world.

To an extent he is correct - the more effective of the classic Who stories tend to involve Earth rather than an alien world with silver spandex, but there are some excellent ones that do take place on other worlds, notably Genesis of the Daleks. However, most of these are still quite rooted in normality in terms of design, as Curly has pointed out in her reviews there are visual similarities between the Kaleds and nazi officers in Genesis. Colony in Space has a similar design ethic to Westerns (cf Firefly), etc.

*Another usage that makes my inner pedant twitch - by rights it should be fora.

**Copyright Bill Bailey

Less wood; fewer trees.

As for the Daleks, they original took off because little likes loved running around with one arm extended in front of them with a balled fist, which they shouted "Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate!"

[dps]

Honestly, screw normal people. We're watching a show about a guy in a box that travels through time and space, why must we keep having companions from present day Britain? The most normal characters have always been the most boring (Mikey, Martha, pre-Auton Rory). Give me a an alien for a companion! Let's see Grotor the Unquenchable, a knight from the War of the Roses, a gas station attendant whose stop is on Neptune, a tree person from Cheem, a sentient space anomaly trapped in the body of a child. Or whatever awesome zaniness we can think of.

The only reasons why they keep with normal people is well let's be honest it makes costumes less expensive, and because they think people can relate to them better. But people can relate to anything so long as the emotions are real and the writing is good.

In ClassicWho, the Doctor had some alien companions, but they were always human-looking aliens.

I expressed the opinion a couple of years ago on another forum that I'd like to see the Doctor travelling with 3 companions--one alien (and a human-looking alien is fine with me), a human from contemporary or near-contemporary earth, and a human from the past (the Doctor hasn't had a companion from the past since Jamie)--in particular I think a samurai from medieval Japan would be an interesting choice.

[Eldan]

You know what would be interesting? A shapeshifter companion. Who could be played by several different characters.

[comicshorse]

You know what would be interesting? A shapeshifter companion. Who could be played by several different characters.

It can't work out worse than last time they tried it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamelion

[Sunken Valley]

More news from Who!

First some fun. Check out Fan Made Dr Who/Big Lebowski Trailer.

Now for the meat. Remember when we got posters last year of the who episodes? They are doing it again! One for each of the first four episodes (including some title changes which I'm not sure about)

See for yourself

They also have summaries, which I will replicate.

The Bells of St John
The Doctor’s search for Clara Oswald brings him to modern day London, where wifi is everywhere. Humanity lives in a wifi soup. But something dangerous is lurking in the signals, picking off minds and imprisoning them. As Clara becomes the target of this insidious menace, the Doctor races to save her and the world from an ancient enemy.

The Rings of Akhaten
Clara wants to see something awesome, so the Doctor whisks her off to the inhabited rings of the planet Akhaten, where the Festival of Offerings is in full swing. Clara meets the young Queen of Years as the pilgrims and natives ready for the ceremony. But something is stirring in the pyramid, and a sacrifice will be demanded.

Cold War (no The! )
The Doctor and Clara land on a damaged Russian Submarine in 1983 as it spirals out of control into the ocean depths. An alien creature is loose on board, having escaped from a block of Arctic ice. With tempers flaring and a cargo of nuclear weapons on board, it’s not just the crew but the whole of humanity at stake!

Hide (not Phantoms of the Hex, as I reported)
Clara and the Doctor arrive at Caliburn House, a haunted mansion sat alone on a desolate moor. Within its walls, a ghost hunting Professor and a gifted psychic are searching for the Witch of the Well. Her apparition appears throughout the history of the building, but is she really a ghost? And what is chasing her?

What do you think?

[Weezer]

The Rings of Akhaten
Clara wants to see something awesome, so the Doctor whisks her off to the inhabited rings of the planet Akhaten, where the Festival of Offerings is in full swing. Clara meets the young Queen of Years as the pilgrims and natives ready for the ceremony. But something is stirring in the pyramid, and a sacrifice will be demanded.

Looking forward to this one, I always complain that they don't do enough alien planet stories, glad they're doing at least one this season.

[Thufir]

On the Rings of Akhaten poster, Clara looks disconcertingly like Amy.

Otherwise, I like the posters and I'm excited. Might have more to say in a while, but I'm tired right now.

[Hullabaloo]

Dab of Doctor Who in here, mostly just geekyness.

Gandolf and the Doctor on the same stage.... Patrick Stewart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=UH2xGtbtp7M

[Friv]

Alright, we are now about eight days away from new Doctor Who, which means that I have got eight days to review the last three episodes of The Silurians. And I am going to do it if it kills me!

But first, a brief explanation/apology:

I haven't done a review in almost two months.

This is because of two things. First, I spent a chunk of February on vacation. Immediately after coming back, my laptop lost its power cord and died. I use my laptop to watch Doctor Who and take screencaps and such for reviews. As a result, I wound up spending much longer than I'd intended not having new reviews.

But it's all fixed now, just in time for some madcap adventures! So, here we go. Tonight, Review #4, covering Parts 5 and 6.

My previous reviews:

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Spearhead From Space:
Part One
Part Two
Part Three
Part Four

The Silurians:
Part One
Parts Two And Three
Part Four

Previously on Friv Reviews Doctor Who: The Doctor is really, really dedicated to the idea that these murderous aliens are completely unlike the last twenty alien groups that he's slaughtered without a second thought, for no reason! And his dedicated attempts to make peace have... well, they haven't done much beyond get him captured by Silurians, really. But I'm sure it'll work out fine, and no one will be murdered by any other species.

Now, shall we begin?

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Episode 5!

When last we left our Doctor, he almost got the Brigadier and his people slaughtered trying to make peace. Tall is now trying to kill the Doctor for literally no reason at all, proving that he is a member of a peaceful race that must be reasoned with, not like those nasty Cybermen/Daleks/Ice Warriors/Nestene/Great Intelligence/Macra...

Anyway. Short shows up and demands what the hell Tall was doing. Tall tries to defend himself, and Short points out that Tall is basically a murderous idiot. So we have a wiser leader, and an angry military second-in-command. Sounds familiar. Can't say why.

The Brig, as it turns out, is 100% not dead, which was a huge shock to me personally. He and his men are trapped and trying to dig out, or contact their base. No luck. He is worried about how long it'll take to get found – his second-in-command, who seems to have slept in the day they taught how caves work, says there's no problem, they have food and water. The Brig points out that they do not have air, and within three hours they'll all be dead.

At the lab, Liz is showing their evidence to the minister, and turning him against Doc Lawrence, who is downright livid. She has convinced the Undersecretary that yeah, there are probably aliens in the caves. Then they find out that the Brig is missing.

The Doctor continues to try and convince Short, who is the Silurian leader, to be less of a monster by telling him about how deadly human weapons are, and Baker tries to choke him unconscious to keep him from giving away state secrets. Short is having none of this giving of valuable information, and zaps the both of them. However, he eventually agrees to take the Doctor out of his cage.

Things are getting worse for the Brig and his men, who are running out of air. They're also starting to snap. At the lab, Permanent Undersecretary Masters is handling things better than you'd expect from a government official. Miss Dawson thinks everyone is dead, Lawrence thinks they're lost, and they're fighting back and forth about whether to send the army in, with Liz trying to support the Doctor's position – but she accidentally lets slip that the Doctor went to talk to the Silurians. Masters decides to wait for more information before sending in troops.

Back at the base, the Silurians are studying human weapons and declaring them “crude, but with a certain ingenuity.” Tall is concerned that the Silurian leader may be paying too much attention to the humans. The Doctor, meanwhile, is talking to Glorious Leader, who explains that the Silurians fled underground to protect themselves from a massive disaster that never wound up happening, which left them in suspended animation while evolution continued. The Silurians are now draining the nuclear plant, preparing to revive their civilization. The Doctor tries to convince Our Leader that both peoples can live on Earth; the Silurians can build cities in really hot areas, where the human population is small. So basically Africa and South America, which are totally uninhabited and have no local populations that would resist such a move.

*cough*

Leader is tentatively swayed, and the Doctor convinces him to let the Brig and his men go, pointing out that someone has to take the first non-murdering step. And speaking of the Brig, we're back to him – one of his men has caught cave fever, and is now a caveman, because apparently that happens in tunnels now, too. The Silurians open the path and let them out – and then Tall busts in to start yelling. Tall and Short yell at each other for a bit, and then Tall storms off, announcing his intent to overthrow the Leader and threatening to destroy any Silurian who doesn't agree. His scientist friend has an anti-human plague, and...

Oh, whoops. I seem to have put a link to some totally different scientist who was the third of three Silurians with voice parts. How clumsy of me.

Anyway, Baker breaks out and has a long fight sequence, then gets taken to the lab to be infected with super-virus.

In the lab, Lawrence starts getting snide about how nothing is getting solved, but then the Brig gets back. At the Silurian base, Glorious Leader agrees to let the Doctor go, and goes to tell the other Silurians about Operation Don't Be Genocidal Morons. He shows up just after Tall initiates Operation Actually Why Not Be Genocidal Morons, releasing an infected Baker into the tunnels. Baker is totally unsuspicious about his lucky escape. Tall and Leader get into a fight over which Operation to engage, which surprisingly does not end with either of them dead. Leader goes back to tell the Doctor that there's a slight problem, telling him about the virus. He gives the Doctor a sample of the disease to make a cure with, and releases him.

Baker gets back to the lab, and declares the Doctor a traitor. The Undersecretary wonders how Baker escaped, and the Doctor arrives before Baker can shrug off the issue, telling everyone that he is infected.

The Silurians have a longer fight, which ends when Tall initiates a coup and flat-out kills Leader. So now there's a Silurian coup going on, and the militant faction controls the Silurian base.

The Doctor is trying to quarantine the disease, but the local idiots have taken Baker to a local hospital. And no one thinks that this is a really, really bad plan, including the Brig. The Undersecretary decides that he needs to get back to London, proving that he wasn't listening ten seconds earlier. He is clearly infected with doom-disease. The Doctor reaches the hospital just in time to find Baker, who is dead. “The first one,” the Doctor intones solemnly, as though half of this wasn't his fault.

Anyway, that takes us to Part 6, which has more padding and less hilarity.

The Doctor confronts the hospital staff, and the Brig orders everyone into the hospital to get it quarantined before the disease spreads. The Doctor races back to the lab to work on a cure. Liz forces the Doctor to get tested too, since who knows if Gallifreyans can be infected. They've developed a vaccine, and vaccinated everyone here and at the hospital, but three people are sick and a vaccine isn't a cure. And then Liz discovers that Masters is gone. She and the Brig have a fight over whether she's better suited helping with coordination, or with the Doctor's cure, and for some reason they decide to have her help the Brig.

Masters is walking through downtown London as though he weren't told two hours earlier that he might have an extremely virulent disease. And walking. And walking. And walking. After a solid minute and a half of walking, he gets in a cab, just in time to not get caught by the police.

At the lab, the Doctor is working on his cure, and warns the Brig that a pitched battle must be avoided – he points out that the Silurian leader is on their side, and asks the Brig not to start killing people. The Brig is dubious.

At the Silurian caves, Tall is having one of his leaderly rage-flipouts, repeating “I am the leader now!” Science Lizard is worried that humanity will cure the disease, but Tall is sure that won't happen.

At the base, Lawrence and Liz chat for a bit. Lawrence apparently doesn't think that there's a real danger, and refuses to get inoculated against “an imaginary epidemic”. Even Baker's death doesn't convince him, because he is an idiot. Liz is equally frustrated. The Brig then learns that Masters is missing. Which means we're back to... walking! Masters gets out of a cab, and walks. Only for about thirty seconds this time, though.

In the caves, some wildly discordant funny pipe music accompanies a guard on duty, who discovers Silurians and is promptly killed while trying to radio it in. Hilarious! More guards go to check on it, find the dead guy, and get into a fight with the Silurian. Tall decides on the brilliant plan of invading the lab to capture the Doctor, who is clearly the only person on Earth who can cure diseases.

At the lab, the Doctor is getting ready to find a cure. Very, very slowly.

And in London, people start dying of doom-virus. By the hundreds, apparently. There is a long montage of everyone just keeling over, while the Doctor works and Liz tends to the sick. Baker is somehow not dead, though, and the police are chasing him and catch him just as he collapses and dies. The Doctor does a bunch of enthralling medical tests – I mean, they must be enthralling, so much time is spent on them. The Brig is answering the phones, who are all angry and worried. More tests. The Doctor declares himself several thousand years old, to remind us that he's an alien, Liz suggests some medical stuff to remind us that she's a scientist (although if I recall correctly, she is an astrophysicist, not a chemist).

Dear sweet Gallifrey. This episode runs two minutes longer than the average Doctor Who episode, and it's got nothing but padding!

The Ministry calls to let people know that Masters is dead – the disease has spread across London, and Liz and the Doctor are growing infected. Lawrence bursts in, sick and raving. (I think the disease makes people more paranoid?) He decides that the entire business is a plot to get rid of him. He has a screaming meltdown and tries to strangle the Brig, then falls over dead. So that's dealt with.

The first virus appears in Paris, just as the Doctor solves the problem. As the Doctor and Liz rush to test their antidote, the Silurians finally make their move. They very, very gradually tunnel their way into the base, launching an all-out attack just as the Doctor proves that his cure works. The Brig gets a media call on his military line, and as the Doctor is transcribing a complicated formula, his lab is conveniently the exact spot in the base that the Silurians attack through. They sneak up on him, and psi-zap him!

End of episode!

My thoughts: The parallels between this episode and the Hungry Earth two-parter are a lot more notable in this one – both on the human side, with everyone sitting around yelling about whether to attack the Silurians, the Silurians grabbing people for medical experimentation, the leader of the Silurians being willing to negotiate but then being overthrown in a coup by his second-in-command, who is a wild xenophobe psycopath... honestly, I mentioned this at the time that Hungry Earth came out, I think, but it really bears repeating. What the hell, Chibnall?

Best moment: Liz and the Doctor sharing little human moments in the middle of their research. They spent most of Silurians in different scenes, and it's nice to have them together and just being kind of a pair of friends.

Worst moment: Well, the... pacing... ... ... ... just ... ... ... ... ... ... wasn't... ... ... ...

slow... ... ... ... ... ...

enough.


Seriously, Part 6, ugh. Part 5 was mostly okay. But Part 6. Geez.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Alright, we are now about eight days away from new Doctor Who, which means that I have got eight days to review the last three episodes of The Silurians. And I am going to do it if it kills me!

But first, a brief explanation/apology:

I haven't done a review in almost two months.

This is because of two things. First, I spent a chunk of February on vacation. Immediately after coming back, my laptop lost its power cord and died. I use my laptop to watch Doctor Who and take screencaps and such for reviews. As a result, I wound up spending much longer than I'd intended not having new reviews.

But it's all fixed now, just in time for some madcap adventures! So, here we go. Tonight, Review #4, covering Parts 6 and 7.

Sweetheart, as long as I'm around a two month absence is like unto three days. I'm really bad at punctuality. And at least you have two really good excuses.

I'd actually reply properly but it's quarter to five in the morning, and it's my birthday, so I'm knackered.

[Androgeus]

Prequel. Obvious "twist" is obvious.

Also Merry Birthday Curly

[Kato]

Prequel. Obvious "twist" is obvious.

Not sure if I'd thought of it as that obvious if you hadn't pointed it out. Not very subtle but still...

Also Merry Birthday Curly

Yeah, alles Gute zum Geburtstag from Germany as well.

[Eldan]

What twist? The scene seems pretty over, by the end.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What twist? The scene seems pretty over, by the end.

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The doctor, once again, get the correct person at the wrong point in the person's timeline. I'm with Kato, though. It wouldn't be that obvious if I hadn't been looking for it.

GW

[Androgeus]

So for spoiling the scene for anyone there.

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The first thing I thought of when I saw the girl was "is this going to be Clara?", and I'm generally terrible at working out twist before they happen.

[Eldan]

Oh, that.

I thought you meant there would be a twist after that, in the episode proper.

[Friv]

Sweetheart, as long as I'm around a two month absence is like unto three days. I'm really bad at punctuality. And at least you have two really good excuses.

I'd actually reply properly but it's quarter to five in the morning, and it's my birthday, so I'm knackered.

Happy birthday!

Prequel. Obvious "twist" is obvious.

Yeah, it was rather, but...

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Kind of nice to see what Clara was like as a kid - not that different from Clara as an adult, really.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So for spoiling the scene for anyone there.

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The first thing I thought of when I saw the girl was "is this going to be Clara?", and I'm generally terrible at working out twist before they happen.

Basically. But it was cute.

[Sunken Valley]

Prequel. Obvious "twist" is obvious.

Also Merry Birthday Curly

THIS HAS TO STOP MOFFAT!

Fourth Time. Fourth Time. Doctor meets young girl then again when she's older. You keep using the same character model Moff and the same story. Centuries old time traveller meets little girl and then he meets her again when she's old enough in the future and she kisses him. When she's older and sexualised. She waits a time to be with a man she met briefly as a child. Now she's legal, she can be with him. Creepy.

Especially as Young Clara was told not to talk to strangers but goes and talks to the weird lonely older man she doesn't know. What message does that give to the kids at home?

It fails from a narrative stance as well. All four women this has happened to (Reinette, Amy, River and Clara) are all in passive roles, their identities based solely on our lord Doctor and how he works in their humble lives, so insignificant without his touch. The stripping of independance from these four characters is problematic.

It's also boring. It's no longer a co-incidence, its blatant recycling. Branch out Moffat!

Now for the news I came to deliver.

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/201...on-theory.html

Lots of you thought it was a weird plot hole in Angels Take Manhattan as there appeared to be a million and one ways out of New York for the Ponds. Moffat explains why not. Whether you think that explanation is also rubbish is your call.

The same site also has Moffat quotes implying there will be a love triangle between Clara, River and the Doctor, that the finale will cover Trenzalore and the names of two new Original Monsters for this season: the Whispermen and the Vigil.

[Eldan]

If true?

Bleeeeeeeergh.

Moff. Please. You've written a few good stories. Can't we please have a companion that doesn't fall for the Doctor? You managed to give the Ponds a non-doctor life. Why undo that with Amy II?

[Androgeus]

THIS HAS TO STOP MOFFAT!

Fourth Time. Fourth Time.

Erm twice, Clara and River he met when they were adults and then as children. OK Clara's in a bit of an odd spot as we have no idea what her deal is, but still.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Now, to be fair, RTD had some of that "woman defines herself by the Doctor" as well.

Rose defined her life so strongly by the Doctor that her happy ending was snogging the Doctor's clone (who she regards as being close enough to the same person to count).

Martha did the same thing, and eventually left. Notably, Amy wound up also doing the same thing at the end of Angels Take Manhattan. Indeed, I also note that when she got timestream-trapped for 36 years, it wasn't her Raggedy Man whom she couldn't do without--it was her Centurion. Y'know, her husband.

If you're throwing Madame du Pompadour in there (I presume you are), you should probably throw in whats-her-face from the Titanic special, too.

[Kato]

Especially as Young Clara was told not to talk to strangers but goes and talks to the weird lonely older man she doesn't know. What message does that give to the kids at home?

Are you honestly suggesting Moffat's writing is making children trust pedophiles? Because a kid talked to a stranger?


I think the other part of the discussion has happened more than once already, so I won't get into that again.


And concerning the "Washington Theory" (apparently that's a thing now) It's a time travel story. For god's sake. Okay, he should probably shut up and not start with explanations. If you have a time machine you can potentially fix everything but that doesn't make for good drama. So either you accept some (BS) reason why stuff is not possible or you start hating the show. Live with it or don't watch shows about time travelers.

[Sunken Valley]

Are you honestly suggesting Moffat's writing is making children trust pedophiles? Because a kid talked to a stranger?

Yes and No. Children can be very impressionable. I am saying it might make children more likely to talk to strangers, as talking to strangers is shown to be a positive force. Children are unable to tell who is a good and bad person to talk to and thus may get themselves in danger.

Further, Little Girls are sexualised enough as it is. "Oh it's a little girl! She'll fall in love with him when she's older and he might be attracted to her!" is not the reaction anyone should make when seeing a little girl and a grown man on a popular TV programme. Irresponsible!

@Eldan: Which bit is "if true"?

@Androgenus: I'm counting from the girl's timeline. Counting Reinette, Amy, River (Melody) and Clara. All the women created by Moffat who the Doctor has personally asked to be companion. All met him first as a little girl. All became romantic interested in him when older (Clara will be as well). All kissed him two (Amy and River) without consent. If Clara does without consent it will be 3. All passive as they wait their whole life to see the great Doctor again.

@Carpe: RTD did indeed you are correct. Due to how modern media has changed, any showrunner would probably have a Doctor companion romance. But did any of RTD's companions meet the Doctor first as a little girl (the Doctor meeting Rose as a baby in "Father's Day" doesn't count due to no dialogue and no memory of event)? Did any of the RTD companions obsessively wait for the Doctor for years? No! They all met the Doctor at the start of their first appearence with no time skips. In the case of Rose and Astrid, romancing the Doctor was only the secondary goal. Travelling and exploring all of space and time was the primary goal.

But Wait! Martha waited for the Doctor as a maid in 1913 whilst he was a human! True. However, Martha was playing an active role, keeping the Doctor alive and safe until the Family of Blood died off. She was also their to make sure the Doctor assumed his true form after the crisis was averted.

But Wait! Martha waited for the Doctor in the year that never was ruled by the Master! False. Martha played an active role in travelling the world, giving the masses faith in the Doctor and giving the Doctor the strength to overcome the Master's powers.

In fact, contrast the finales. In all of them except season 2, the companion saved the day in the end. However, RTD's three had the companion play an active role, Moff's two had a passive role. Rose refused to leave the life of adventure, bursting open the TARDIS panel against the Doctor's orders and becoming a god. Martha travelled the world whilst her allies were imprisoned, instilling faith in the Doctor and giving him strength. Donna saved the day whilst everyone else was trapped.

Amy? All she had to do was remember a certain phrase on her wedding day. A phrase which is intrinsicly linked to weddings. All River had to do was shut up and touch the Doctor so his plan could work. In fact, with the exception of four episodes (Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Amy's Choice andAngels Take Manhattan) I don't think the female companion has ever saved the day in the Moffat run. And two of those involved suicide, with a 50% chance of death.

On the topic of passive roles, the Snowmen is particularly bad at this as the villain is defeated solely through co-incidence. The Doctor didn't save the day and the saving was attributed in story to Clara. However, Clara only saved the day by being comatose. The family crying (an expected reaction) saved the day with no effort from either protagonist.

Thoughts?

[Timeras]

Children can be very impressionable. I am saying it might make children more likely to talk to strangers, as talking to strangers is shown to be a positive force. Children are unable to tell who is a good and bad person to talk to and thus may get themselves in danger.

This is a simple scene of a man and a child talking. It is not shown as a "positive force". In fact, it doesn't have any consequences at all. I seriously doubt that it will influence the behavior af even a single child.

Further, Little Girls are sexualised enough as it is. "Oh it's a little girl! She'll fall in love with him when she's older and he might be attracted to her!" is not the reaction anyone should make when seeing a little girl and a grown man on a popular TV programme. Irresponsible!

There is no hint of this in the scene. Clara does not even seem impressed by the doctor.

@Androgenus: I'm counting from the girl's timeline. Counting Reinette, Amy, River (Melody) and Clara. All the women created by Moffat who the Doctor has personally asked to be companion. All met him first as a little girl. All became romantic interested in him when older (Clara will be as well). All kissed him two (Amy and River) without consent. If Clara does without consent it will be 3. All passive as they wait their whole life to see the great Doctor again.

So far there is no indication that the scene was anything more than cheap joke. Both the Doctor and Clara probably forgot it quickly. The scene in the trailer that is probably their next meeting indicates that she doesn't remember him and she doesn't seem to find him the slightest bit interesting.

In fact, contrast the finales. In all of them except season 2, the companion saved the day in the end. However, RTD's three had the companion play an active role, Moff's two had a passive role. Rose refused to leave the life of adventure, bursting open the TARDIS panel against the Doctor's orders and becoming a god. Martha travelled the world whilst her allies were imprisoned, instilling faith in the Doctor and giving him strength. Donna saved the day whilst everyone else was trapped.

Amy? All she had to do was remember a certain phrase on her wedding day. A phrase which is intrinsicly linked to weddings. All River had to do was shut up and touch the Doctor so his plan could work. In fact, with the exception of four episodes (Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Amy's Choice andAngels Take Manhattan) I don't think the female companion has ever saved the day in the Moffat run. And two of those involved suicide, with a 50% chance of death.

Considering that we have a centuries old timelord and an ordinary human it is not surprising that the first does more to save the day than the latter. However, no companion is portrayed as useless or incompetent. In fact the only one who somtimes seemed like he was just dragged along was Rory.

Thoughts?

I think you are reading things into this that are simply not there. Possibly because you don't like the author.

[Kato]

I think you are reading things into this that are simply not there. Possibly because you don't like the author.

What? Impossible, you must be imagining things



Concerning the child Clara thing... While we could discuss the matter on a more general basis I really don't see the harm considering it's a two minute scene. And the mother is like 50 metres away. It's not like they said "Hey, if a stranger talks to you, go along with him to his secret place. He could be the Doctor and take you on an adventure!" Yeah, I am aware this could give of a wrong impression but I feel your exaggerating the effect this would have on a child. (Dozens of kids stories do things like that... It's a rather standard thing in fiction and I'd argue whether Doctor Who gets a long the same slightly confusing message as other stories doesn't do much)

I'd have a hard time coming up with the last instance I'd seen such a "girl meets man and viewers expect them to end up later" scenario...
Last time I've seen a little girl sexualized... well, it's up to the Japanese when they want to make their 12 year olds look like 20 year olds, I guess. (Okay, not really. But a young girl sexualized in western media? I'd have a hard time imagining something like that getting green lighted.


Only to make a minor point against the whole Moffat vs Women discussion... Amy didn't stop living after the Doctor. Okay, she became fascinated by him. Did she spend her whole life on him? (Okay, kind of) Did she stop dating and waited her whole life for him? Did she (not) get engaged? Did she not go to school or went insane or anything?
The Doctor shows up again just before her wedding which is a time when... well, it's not entirely unlikely a person would be in emotional turmoil and possibly consider to skip out on the event and instead run away. Especially with a man in a magic box. And in the end, she clearly decides for Rory, and the Doctor is just a friend. She never loved him, whatever fans may interpret into the story, if anything she might have been unsure whether she wants to spend all her life with Rory. But that's not "she meets the Doctor and waits all her life for him because she is so in love with him". She's a fangirl, at worst.

And River's timeline is so screwed up... but if we start with "Let's kill Hitler"... yeah, it comes out of nowhere (considering she's supossed to kill him) but she's not a child. Are you saying she gets obsessed with him when she is a baby and taken from her parents?!
And Clara - abstaining from any assumptions about her timeline - from what we could see did seem hardly impressed by the Doctor. So is even meeting the Doctor as a child a wrong thing? Just because it's used often? Or is there really a like mjaor part of western media where little girls get hooked up with old men I'm missing out on?

[Friv]

And River's timeline is so screwed up... but if we start with "Let's kill Hitler"... yeah, it comes out of nowhere (considering she's supossed to kill him) but she's not a child. Are you saying she gets obsessed with him when she is a baby and taken from her parents?!

Sunken is presumably referring to when the Doctor ran into her as a child in an astronaut suit, in The Impossible Astronaut. I don't blame you for forgetting; he spent less than ten seconds in her presence and had no effect on her at all.

Sunken - take a deep breath.

You are angry to the point that you are declaring a wide array of facts about the new companion that are simply not true or knowable yet, simply because of a one-off event that was displayed as being cute, but ultimately meaningless. Clara clearly talks to lots of strangers, given that her mother is frustrated about it. She doesn't seem to apply any special meaning to this one. Her previous selves haven't been waiting passively around for anyone, and I don't imagine her next one will either.