OOTS #856 - The Discussion Thread

[One Skunk Todd]

I wonder how long the Empire can last without T and M keeping a hand/claw in things?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I am impressed. Your English is excellent---you parse arguments in the MITD threads very well; I would never have guessed that you were not a native speaker.

Lets put it like this: as long as I can read it, I can understand English perfectly. But where a native can subconsciously translate from grammarless mess to English, I have to do it consciously, and my reading speed drops way down. I have a similar problem when talking on the phone: in person, when I miss the occasional word, I can pick it up from the context, body language, etc. On the phone, I miss the occasional word and I'm lost.

Grey Wolf

[willpell]

I'm forced to wonder whether Tarquin is just mocking Nale's egotism, or if he's actually amused to throw himself into the role of a traditional "villain's toadying lickspittle" role for Nale's benefit.

The mummies are odd, though...if Malack doesn't normally approve of making undead, why'd he prepare the spell that day?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The mummies are odd, though...if Malack doesn't normally approve of making undead, why'd he prepare the spell that day?

IMO, the best explanation I've heard so far for that is that he only prepared it as his domain spell (where you only get a choice between two spells to prepare) and for whatever reason he considers his other domain spell even less useful.

Grey Wolf

[willpell]

Given that Nergal is a bringer of the Apocalypse, it seems likely that his other domain is probably Destruction, so what would that give him opposite the undead-creation?

[Bulldog Psion]

I haven't played DnD at ALL, so can someone explain why the mummies are so dangerous? I mean, can't Roy just smash them with his green-glowing-sword-of doom?

Also, what do the words in white above the mummies mean?The undead can't talk, after all...?

Well, the mummies aren't super-dangerous, but they are a bit stronger and harder to kill than ordinary zombies.

They also have a "despair" ability which can cause characters who fail a Will save to be paralyzed with fear for a short period of time. Since Will saves depend partly on Wisdom scores, and both Belkar and Elan likely have rock bottom Wisdom, there's a chance they might flunk their saves and end up being useless for part of the fight (well, even more useless for Elan).

Every hit by them can also possibly cause Mummy Rot, a supernatural curse that causes a character to rapidly disintegrate if they don't get a Remove Curse cast on them, followed by a Cure Disease spell. With six mummies, there's a good chance that a few saving throws will be flunked, and if that's the case, Durkon will either be taken out of the fight casting Remove Curse and Cure Disease, or he'll keep fighting and let one or more teammates rot away to dust and blow away in the wind.

Because high level characters are so deadly, they'll likely take out the mummies before these worst case scenarios happen. But the mummies are still a threat, so they can't ignore them -- which means they're an excellent distraction while the Linear Guild pounds on the characters, besides using up spells to deal with them.

Or at least, that's my analysis.

[Kish]

other domain

If Nergal offers only two domains, he's the only deity I ever heard of who offers so few.

Most likely, Malack chose two domains suitable for Malack's personality from a list including Death, Destruction, Evil, Law, and who knows what else.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If Nergal offers only two domains, he's the only deity I ever heard of who offers so few.

Most likely, Malack chose two domains suitable for Malack's personality from a list including Death, Destruction, Evil, Law, and who knows what else.

Kish, what's the corresponding domain spell for Law? Malack's willingness to hold to the ancient contract (to further the team goals over personal ones) suggests to me he may be more Lawful than (Good-Evil). I can see him picking Law and Death as domains.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

Law Domain
Granted Power

You cast law spells at +1 caster level.
Law Domain Spells

Level 1. Protection from Chaos: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Level 2. Calm Emotions: Calms creatures, negating emotion effects.
Level 3. Magic Circle against Chaos: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Level 4. Order’s Wrath: Damages and dazes chaotic creatures.
Level 5. Dispel Chaos: +4 bonus against attacks by chaotic creatures.
Level 6. Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature.
Level 7. Dictum: Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nonlawful subjects.
Level 8. Shield of Law F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
Level 9. Summon Monster IX*: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.

*Cast as a law spell only, i.e., the cleric can only open a portal to a Lawful plane and summon a Lawful monster.
from http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists....htm#lawDomain .

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Level 6. Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature.

OK, I remember someone mentioning this one, so I'm guessing this one is the one competing with create undead. I suppose that if you are in a hunting expedition, you would prefer to have an "unlikely to use but offensive" spell over "hold but not damage" spell like this one. But it is a stretch, specially if you'd rather not create undead.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

The 6th-level domain spell for Death is Create Undead.

If willpell is right about Malack's second domain being Destruction, the 6th-level domain spell there is...Will you look at that. Harm.

(I'd think he'd have a lot of use for Hold Monster if he was planning to attack Belkar, Elan, or, oh yeah, Nale, too. Not so much in the unlikely event that he's genuinely planning to use his spells against Durkon and only Durkon here.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The 6th-level domain spell for Death is Create Undead.

If willpell is right about Malack's second domain being Destruction, the 6th-level domain spell there is...Will you look at that. Harm.

Yeah, but Harm is useful enough he might have it as a regular prepared spell, I'd say. Or is that one of the ones you can only pick as a domain spell?

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

No, Harm is also a sixth-level cleric spell.

[ManuelSacha]

GRAMMAR NAZI comment.
The coma in Kilkil's sentence should be removed.
It changes the sentence completely (as in... Kilkil doesn't want to phone Tarquin, and in addition he is calling Nale "honey").

[willpell]

I haven't played DnD at ALL, so can someone explain why the mummies are so dangerous? I mean, can't Roy just smash them with his green-glowing-sword-of doom?

There's one of roy and a lot of mummies (six at least, I don't know their exact CR but whatever one mummy is, this is more than double that so it's +2 or +3 CR to the single mummy and thus getting toward the OOTS's definition of level-appropriate - and these are just Malack's mooks). Roy attacks once and kills a mummy, then five mummies attack him since he's proved himself a target. Besides the Greenhilt Sword doesn't do the glowy anti-undead thing every time.

Also, what do the words in white above the mummies mean?The undead can't talk, after all...?

This is completely untrue. Zombies and skeletons can't talk, whether mummies normally can I'm not sure, but it could easily be untrue. And "undead" also includes vampires, ghosts, wights (who are quite loquacious in the OOTSiverse), and even things like liches and Necropolitans. So the non-talking undead are the unusual ones, really.

They also have a "despair" ability which can cause characters who fail a Will save to be paralyzed with fear for a short period of time. Since Will saves depend partly on Wisdom scores, and both Belkar and Elan likely have rock bottom Wisdom, there's a chance they might flunk their saves and end up being useless for part of the fight (well, even more useless for Elan).

Elan might have some Wisdom, since it governs things like awareness of dramatic opportunities around him; it's Intelligence he lacks, wisdom could be somewhere in the low averages. Belkar's lack of WIS is canonical though, and given how determined he is to be the badass at all times, it would be very satisfying to see him crippled by terror, even if it's just a supernatural effect and he assumes no responsibility.

and if that's the case, Durkon will either be taken out of the fight casting Remove Curse and Cure Disease, or he'll keep fighting and let one or more teammates rot away to dust and blow away in the wind.

Let's not forget about the one jar of diamond dust....

No, Harm is also a sixth-level cleric spell.

In fact, doesn't it qualify as an Inflict? As a negative cleric he might be able to sponcast it, I forget whether Heal and Harm are on the cure/inflict lists.

[Kish]

In fact, doesn't it qualify as an Inflict? As a negative cleric he might be able to sponcast it, I forget whether Heal and Harm are on the cure/inflict lists.

No. All the cure/inflict spells have the word "Cure" or "Inflict" in them.

[Gift Jeraff]

Durkon prepared a necromantic spell he considers rude and used it on a Draketooth corpse.

Malack prepared a necromantic spell he is normally against and used it on Draketooth corpses.

Works for me.

[Forikroder]

There's one of roy and a lot of mummies (six at least, I don't know their exact CR but whatever one mummy is, this is more than double that so it's +2 or +3 CR to the single mummy and thus getting toward the OOTS's definition of level-appropriate - and these are just Malack's mooks). Roy attacks once and kills a mummy, then five mummies attack him since he's proved himself a target. Besides the Greenhilt Sword doesn't do the glowy anti-undead thing every time.

im not sure of the exact CR of the mummies nor of Roys exact level but figuring out there CR isnt nearly as cut and dry like that

for instance a couple goblins are a good challenge for a lvl 1 party but a lvl 5 party could easily kill 10 goblins and a lvl 10 party could probably kill a near infinite amount of goblins, there jsut becomes a point where low CR monsters stop even being slightly dangerous

not sure if the mummys are low enough of a CR but its likely Roy could clear them all out in a single round

there CR 5 so 6 of them would prboably take a couple rounds to finish them all off (assuming all 6 actually make it past the traps) but none of the group is in any danger of failing the fort save for mummy rot so i find it hard to believe anyone will die from that

[ThePhantasm]

Durkon prepared a necromantic spell he considers rude and used it on a Draketooth corpse.

Malack prepared a necromantic spell he is normally against and used it on Draketooth corpses.

Works for me.

Nice parallel. I didn't catch that before.

[RNGgod]

GRAMMAR NAZI comment.
The coma in Kilkil's sentence should be removed.
It changes the sentence completely (as in... Kilkil doesn't want to phone Tarquin, and in addition he is calling Nale "honey").

No, I don't believe it does.

Many people place commas before quotes. "And I said, 'insertquotehere.'"


The trick is the word before the quotations. If the quote is: "And then 'insertquotehere,'" no comma.

If you use a verb of communication, such as "calling," use a comma.

[Forikroder]

No, I don't believe it does.

Many people place commas before quotes. "And I said, 'insertquotehere.'"


The trick is the word before the quotations. If the quote is: "And then 'insertquotehere,'" no comma.

If you use a verb of communication, such as "calling," use a comma.

ill probably be laughed at for giving grammar advice but im fairly sure hes right and having a comma before honey means hes calling Nale and honey

like saying "ill do that, honey" is alot different then saying "ill do that honey"

[Kish]

You're ignoring the fact that the quotes change the correct punctuation as much as you're ignoring the fact that "ill" is not the same word as "I'll."

[zimmerwald1915]

There's one of roy and a lot of mummies (six at least, I don't know their exact CR but whatever one mummy is, this is more than double that so it's +2 or +3 CR to the single mummy and thus getting toward the OOTS's definition of level-appropriate - and these are just Malack's mooks). Roy attacks once and kills a mummy, then five mummies attack him since he's proved himself a target. Besides the Greenhilt Sword doesn't do the glowy anti-undead thing every time.

How quickly they forget. Roy has boobies.

[Red XIV]

Because high level characters are so deadly, they'll likely take out the mummies before these worst case scenarios happen. But the mummies are still a threat, so they can't ignore them -- which means they're an excellent distraction while the Linear Guild pounds on the characters, besides using up spells to deal with them.

But pounding the Order isn't the Guild's plan. Their plan is to drive the Order further into the pyramid until they find Girard's Gate.

[Forikroder]

But pounding the Order isn't the Guild's plan. Their plan is to drive the Order further into the pyramid until they find Girard's Gate.

Nale seems to have not prepared for an ambush situation at all, he seems to assume that either A) the Order has already found the gate and have fortifications/allies already there and are retreating there or B) the order pissed there pants so much after seeing "nales mysterious new fighter" that there gonna run scared till they hit the end

[J's]

Lets put it like this: as long as I can read it, I can understand English perfectly. But where a native can subconsciously translate from grammarless mess to English, I have to do it consciously, and my reading speed drops way down. I have a similar problem when talking on the phone: in person, when I miss the occasional word, I can pick it up from the context, body language, etc. On the phone, I miss the occasional word and I'm lost.

Grey Wolf

It slows my reading to a tenth of normal, so I don't think it is unconscious adjustment for native speakers. And it is silly of him not to try, I am not the best at spelling and take the time to make my posts readable even though I view forums like in person communication, where the rules are relaxed. He often seems to contradict himself, and I honestly don't know if it is his poor communication skill or a true contradiction.

[RNGgod]

ill probably be laughed at for giving grammar advice but im fairly sure hes right and having a comma before honey means hes calling Nale and honey

like saying "ill do that, honey" is alot different then saying "ill do that honey"

Okay, I'll bite.


"blah blah blah 'quote'"

is not the same as

"blah blah blah told him, 'quote'"

If you're introducing the quote with some form of a communication verb, you use a comma. "calling him" is one such form. There is no error, Rich got it right.

[ThePhantasm]

The thrilling debate over a single comma continues!

[Emperordaniel]

The thrilling debate over a single comma continues!

When the Playground starts debating over things as insignificant as a simple comma, I'm pretty sure it's around that time that the next comic appears.

[RNGgod]

When the Playground starts debating over things as insignificant as a simple comma, I'm pretty sure it's around that time that the next comic appears.

Precisely. I'm a vital part of ushering in the next dose of awesome.


But credit should really lie with the people who claimed a mistake existed on the very first page. Go back and check if you like.