Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Binks]

Ravnica

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I am so thrilled for the gatelands. Common dual lands will make mana fixing for casual decks so much easier and cheaper. Who cares that they have to come into play tapped, they're exactly what my horde of casual decks need. RtR is going to be a lot of fun it looks like.

[tgva8889]

A rules confirmation from Matt Tabak, Keeper of Magic's Rules:

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Unleash creatures can't block no matter how they got their +1/+1 counters, which means Scavenge can be used to make them not able to block.

[Sith_Happens]

Ravnica

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I am so thrilled for the gatelands. Common dual lands will make mana fixing for casual decks so much easier and cheaper. Who cares that they have to come into play tapped, they're exactly what my horde of casual decks need. RtR is going to be a lot of fun it looks like.

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Not to mention more dual lands in Pauper.

Does anyone else like the new Niv-Mizzet as much as I seem to? It's basically the reverse the first one's abilities and still totally works. In fact it might be better, barring shenanagins with Firemind and untap effects. Spammable "ping something for 1 and draw a card" for two mana? Yes please.

[raymundo]

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I really, really like the art and style of Rakdos so far, it's a brutal circus of brutal violent doomy doomness of doom! We'll see if the creatures are actually any good; that Nightmare looks like the obligatory limited-bomb. Though with Heartless Summoning..


How realistic is..

Suicide Dance R/B - Enchantment
All your creatures gain Unleash and Haste.

At the beginning of your Upkeep, you lose half your life total, rounded down.

Feels like a great party, at least ;)

[Landis963]

So... Just did the "Choose your guild" quiz. I'm in two minds about it.

Mind 1: DIMIR YIIIIIII!

Mind 2: "You might also be Izzet, Azorius, or Simic." (Emphasis added) Thanks for helping me choose the guild I'm going to be this set. You narrowed it down to exactly the two guilds I was already considering. So, I thought I'd pose the question to you guys: Assuming I can get enough material to make a Constructed deck before Gatecrash (at which point I focus solely on Dimir), should I go with Izzet, or Azorius? I can see arguments for both, given that I already have a lot of red and blue instants and sorceries and that Detain is a frigging sick mechanic.

[Sith_Happens]

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I would say "obvious Izzet hate is obvious," but the flavor text already does.

[The Extinguisher]

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I would say "obvious Izzet hate is obvious," but the flavor text already does.

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Obvious Snapcaster Mage hate is obvious is more like it.

But I love me some hate-bears. Especially when they're hate-Elite Vanguards.

[Sith_Happens]

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Obvious Snapcaster Mage hate is obvious is more like it.

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Tomato, tomahto. It's not like any Izzet deck is going to be caught dead without four Snapcasters anyways.

[Squark]

*Checks spoiler*


This block is going to be awesome.


One thing I'm not clear on yet; How many guilds are in each set? I count 5 in this one, but that leaves an uneven number for the next two.

[Fable Wright]

*Checks spoiler*


This block is going to be awesome.


One thing I'm not clear on yet; How many guilds are in each set? I count 5 in this one, but that leaves an uneven number for the next two.

5 in Return to Ravnica, 5 in Gatecrash, and all 10 together in the last block, codename Sinker. Fairly even number, this time around.

[Androgeus]

5 in Return to Ravnica, 5 in Gatecrash, and all 10 together in the last block, codename Sinker. Fairly even number, this time around.

Just thought I'd add that Gatecrash is a large set along with Return, so each guild gets the same number of cards.

[Squark]

Large Large Small? Uhh... Have they explained how drafting the third set will work? (I'm guessing there will be RTR-RTR-RTR drafts, Gatecrash-Gatecrash-Gatecrash drafts, but how does sinker fit in here?)

[IthilanorStPete]

Large Large Small? Uhh... Have they explained how drafting the third set will work? (I'm guessing there will be RTR-RTR-RTR drafts, Gatecrash-Gatecrash-Gatecrash drafts, but how does sinker fit in here?)

RTR-RTR-RTR, then Gatecrash-Gatecrash-Gatecrash, then Sinker-Gatecrash-RTR.

[9mm]

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I really, really like the art and style of Rakdos so far, it's a brutal circus of brutal violent doomy doomness of doom! We'll see if the creatures are actually any good; that Nightmare looks like the obligatory limited-bomb. Though with Heartless Summoning..


How realistic is..

Suicide Dance R/B - Enchantment
All your creatures gain Unleash and Haste.

At the beginning of your Upkeep, you lose half your life total, rounded down.

Feels like a great party, at least ;)

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kinda... actually.


CMC seems a bit off though.

[Androgeus]

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kinda... actually.


CMC seems a bit off though.

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I think the point of haste and unleash, not the loose life

I wonder what effect the draft order will have on decks, would Sinker-RTR-Gatecrash be different than the planned set-up?

[tgva8889]

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Obvious Snapcaster Mage hate is obvious is more like it.

But I love me some hate-bears. Especially when they're hate-Elite Vanguards.

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Look, Wizards. This is how you design hate cards. You don't try to hate on other, related cards. Just hate out the specific damn card. Ugh.

Now that I have that out of my system, Dryad Militant is an awesome card. I like it and will use it to great and powerful effect in the future. No flashback for you.

But of course the card that excites me most is this one:


~Lotleth Troll
BG
Creature - Zombie Troll R
Trample
Discard a creature card from your hand: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
{B}: Regenerate ~.
Illus. Vincent Proce #177/274 2/1

And then BG Zombies was a Tier 1 Standard deck.

[Mr._Blinky]

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Look, Wizards. This is how you design hate cards. You don't try to hate on other, related cards. Just hate out the specific damn card. Ugh.

Now that I have that out of my system, Dryad Militant is an awesome card. I like it and will use it to great and powerful effect in the future. No flashback for you.

But of course the card that excites me most is this one:


~Lotleth Troll
BG
Creature - Zombie Troll R
Trample
Discard a creature card from your hand: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
{B}: Regenerate ~.
Illus. Vincent Proce #177/274 2/1

And then BG Zombies was a Tier 1 Standard deck.

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Yeah, I've been trying to get Splinterfright/Boneyard Wurm to work ever since Innistrad's release, first as G/U and then as BUG; it's been reasonably effective, and I've heard other people have tried it with some success, but it's never really had the support it needed from Scars. Between this, Grizzly Salvage, Jarad, and Dreg Mangler, I think there's already a workable deck, and that's ignoring the fact that there's plenty more Golgari stuff to go, including hopefully another hybrid-mana uncommon one-drop if they're hinting at a cycle of them with Dryad Militant and Judge's Familiar.

[Mystic Muse]

Mr. Blinky, responses to spoilers should probably themselves be in spoilers.

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I'm definitely sideboarding 4 of that dryad.

[Sith_Happens]

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But of course the card that excites me most is this one:


~Lotleth Troll
BG
Creature - Zombie Troll R
Trample
Discard a creature card from your hand: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
{B}: Regenerate ~.
Illus. Vincent Proce #177/274 2/1

And then BG Zombies was a Tier 1 Standard deck.

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Methinks it might be time for my G/R Madness deck to splash black.

[raymundo]

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kinda... actually.


CMC seems a bit off though.

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Kinda.. except it's probably not too good :( And this Enchantment pretty much reduces the probability of a second one like that thing I proposed to zero. Too bad. But there's still the hope they'll preview the R/B Uncommon one-drop tonight and that it will kick ass! Hell yeah!

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Yeah, I've been trying to get Splinterfright/Boneyard Wurm to work ever since Innistrad's release, first as G/U and then as BUG; it's been reasonably effective, and I've heard other people have tried it with some success, but it's never really had the support it needed from Scars. Between this, Grizzly Salvage, Jarad, and Dreg Mangler, I think there's already a workable deck, and that's ignoring the fact that there's plenty more Golgari stuff to go, including hopefully another hybrid-mana uncommon one-drop if they're hinting at a cycle of them with Dryad Militant and Judge's Familiar.

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A working BUG Self-mill Beatdown deck would be super awesome. I've been working on this some time, but the thing is.. any kind of GY hate shuts you down hard and there will be a LOT of GY hate, if only because of Snapcaster.

[Androgeus]

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I am a terrible person because I want to make a deck using door to nothingness and Axebane Guardian from RTR

[raymundo]

Has anybody else noticed the value of Innistrad and Dark Ascension going up, according to this site?

According to this diagram, Innistrad went from ca. 73$ to 90$ of value since M2013.

This diagram shows how Dark Ascension is starting to gain value again, after plummeting a bit around M2013


My assumptions:

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ISD went up because people are getting the enemy dual lands - Woodland Cemetary, Clifftop Retreat went up a decent amount. DKA cards are presumably seeing a sharp increase in value because of Golgari. I don't know how often these values are refreshed, but it may even be that lovely Lotlech Troll we just saw.

Edit: Wow, Woodland Cemetery went from 4$ at August 05 to 7$+ now. Interesting.. If Golgari proves to be awesome, Rancor might become the most expansive Uncommon during its standard legality, if it isn't already.

All these and various other interesing nerdy MtG tools can be found via http://ark42.com/mtg/. Awesome site.

[Foeofthelance]

You know, looking things over, I have the strangest desire to mix Wolf Run Ramp with Delver now that Phyrexia is moving out of standard. They both run about the same number of creatures, with WRR running more lands to Delver's spells. While that might seem a problem, we'll be losing Inkmoth Nexus, which served less as a land and more as a creature for WRR. This means (I think) that I can dump the extra slots to spells.

Before criticisms, yes, I know this is a stretchy experiment, where Delver looks to get early advantage while WRR goes for a larger bomb type strategy. That said, any thoughts and suggestions?

[Mr._Blinky]

Mr. Blinky, responses to spoilers should probably themselves be in spoilers.

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I'm definitely sideboarding 4 of that dryad.

Indeed you are correct sir, my apologies; wasn't thinking.

[Mystic Muse]

Indeed you are correct sir, my apologies; wasn't thinking.

*Points to Gender icon*

Pssst. I'm a girl.

[tgva8889]

You know, looking things over, I have the strangest desire to mix Wolf Run Ramp with Delver now that Phyrexia is moving out of standard. They both run about the same number of creatures, with WRR running more lands to Delver's spells. While that might seem a problem, we'll be losing Inkmoth Nexus, which served less as a land and more as a creature for WRR. This means (I think) that I can dump the extra slots to spells.

Before criticisms, yes, I know this is a stretchy experiment, where Delver looks to get early advantage while WRR goes for a larger bomb type strategy. That said, any thoughts and suggestions?

The biggest problem with running a Wolf Run Ramp deck as it previously worked is that you don't have Primeval Titan and there is no card that does anything even close to what Primeval Titan did in that deck.

If you were to play RUG Delver with Kessig Wolf Run in it, that would be completely different. Kessig Wolf Run is a good card and seems like it could be a useful spell-land option for Delver decks. Unfortunately I don't think Delver combines as well with Kessig Wolf Run as you'd think; Wolf Run is best when you have a mass of creatures in your deck, whereas Delver works best when you have 25+ instants or sorceries in your deck, especially if you aren't playing any deck stacking cards (because, you know, you can't because we don't have any in Standard yet (And don't tell me Index is one, Index isn't a real card.)).

So perhaps theoretically interesting, but I think the two cards you're trying to combine push you in completely different directions.

If, however, you wanted to play RUG Tempo-ramp, that might be interesting. Play Snapcaster with Ramp spells, some bounce to tempo opponents while you crush them with large creatures, and of course Temporal Mastery because why not. That might be something worth looking at.

[Sith_Happens]

*Points to Gender icon*

Pssst. I'm a girl.

I'm pretty sure that "sir" is somewhere in the process of becoming a gender-neutral term.

[Foeofthelance]

The biggest problem with running a Wolf Run Ramp deck as it previously worked is that you don't have Primeval Titan and there is no card that does anything even close to what Primeval Titan did in that deck.

If you were to play RUG Delver with Kessig Wolf Run in it, that would be completely different. Kessig Wolf Run is a good card and seems like it could be a useful spell-land option for Delver decks. Unfortunately I don't think Delver combines as well with Kessig Wolf Run as you'd think; Wolf Run is best when you have a mass of creatures in your deck, whereas Delver works best when you have 25+ instants or sorceries in your deck, especially if you aren't playing any deck stacking cards (because, you know, you can't because we don't have any in Standard yet (And don't tell me Index is one, Index isn't a real card.)).

So perhaps theoretically interesting, but I think the two cards you're trying to combine push you in completely different directions.

If, however, you wanted to play RUG Tempo-ramp, that might be interesting. Play Snapcaster with Ramp spells, some bounce to tempo opponents while you crush them with large creatures, and of course Temporal Mastery because why not. That might be something worth looking at.

I was actually looking at the list Kibler ran a few months back. He had a bare twenty creatures, counting the Inkmoth Nexi. He was also running about 20 spells, though admittedly four of them were artifacts. But since the Nexi is rotating out anyway, it can be replaced with more spells. And I was actually thinking of replacing the Titans with either Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or something similar.

Some of my considered alterations:
Solemn Simulacrum -> Borderland Ranger
Rampant Growth -> Farseek (will be able to fetch shocklands)
Sphere of the Suns -> Vessel of Endless Rest (to be replaced when RtR comes out)
Primeval Titan -> Nicol Bolas

Other than that, I'm trying to figure the right balance between elements.

[tgva8889]

The issue with trying to play that deck is that the reason that deck functions is because you have Primeval Titan. Without Titan, you literally can't play Wolf Run Ramp in its current iteration. Titan enables you to play that deck; without it you have to do something else.

Nicol Bolas doesn't do what Titan does in a very clear and obvious way: it doesn't get Wolf Run and it isn't useful with it. If you want to play Nicol Bolas, you should just ramp into Nicol Bolas and not worry about Wolf Run.

[Foeofthelance]

The issue with trying to play that deck is that the reason that deck functions is because you have Primeval Titan. Without Titan, you literally can't play Wolf Run Ramp in its current iteration. Titan enables you to play that deck; without it you have to do something else.

Nicol Bolas doesn't do what Titan does in a very clear and obvious way: it doesn't get Wolf Run and it isn't useful with it. If you want to play Nicol Bolas, you should just ramp into Nicol Bolas and not worry about Wolf Run.

Yeah, I might just cut the Runs themselves. The ramp engine itself is a little more important, but there is also a lot strong support options on both sides that I'm looking at working through.