Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[tgva8889]

The thing is, the shock lands are almost always worth picking up when possible. They aren't going to get any cheaper than $12 because they're multiformat staples, so you may as well pick them up now so you have them for the whole Standard environment. They will be worth it if you plan to play any decks of their colors ever.

[Foeofthelance]

Three questions:

1) Is there currently any infinite draw engine available to standard?

2) Is there currently any infinite mana engine available to standard?

3) Can they be combined?

[Binks]

Three questions:

1) Is there currently any infinite draw engine available to standard?

2) Is there currently any infinite mana engine available to standard?

3) Can they be combined?

Absolutely. Extremely Convoluted infinite mana/draw engine ahoy! I may no claims as to the playability of this, just as to it working by the rules and all the cards being standard legal. I am 100% sure there's a simpler way to do this, but this demonstrates that, if nothing else, it does exist.

Requires 4 colors (Black,Blue, White, Red). There's probably a way to do it in less. Axebane guardian + ferver as a replacement for the lotuses and torch fiends might be useful.

You need the following permanents in play to go infinite:
1x Bloodflow Connoisseur (or Bloodthrone Vampire, or any permanent that can sac another creature at will at no cost)
3x Gilded Lotus
3x Torch Fiend
1x Archeomancer
1x Alchemist's Apprentice (or any creature that draws a card when it dies)

You also need Faith's Reward in hand

1. Tap all three Lotus's for mana, 3 white, 3 red, 3 whatever
2. Use 1 red mana to sac the torch fiend to destroy one of the lotuses. Repeat with the other two torch fiends
3. Sac the archaeomancer to the connoisseur
4. Sac the Apprentice to draw a card
5. Use all three white mana and 1 whatever mana to cast Faith's Reward
6. When Reward resolves and puts Archaeomancer on the battlefield put Reward back in your hand from the graveyard (where it is, having finished resolving before the trigger was put on the stack)
7. 20 goto 10. You have the same permanents on the battlefield, 1 extra card, and 2 extra mana.

[Squark]

Alternatively;

3 Defenders+Axebane Guardian+Galvanic Alchemist can give you infinite mana, and then you can use a variety of X spells to deliver the killing blow and/or draw cards.

[Bucky]

If you really want a cheesy infinite, Tamiyo emblem plus Omniscience is the best we've had in a while.

Use with whatever card draw you want to find whatever spells you want to loop. If you insist on infinite mana, you can find Ghostly Flicker to untap your lands.

EDIT: Dual Casting on Midnight Guard repeatedly copying a stack of Thatcher Revolt and Battle Hymn has previously come up in this thread. (Midnight Guard gets three separate triggers from Thatcher Revolt, so you can copy the Battle Hymn in between the triggers and still be able to copy the Thatcher's Revolt again)

[Forrestfire]

EDIT: Dual Casting on Midnight Guard repeatedly copying a stack of Thatcher Revolt and Battle Hymn has previously come up in this thread. (Midnight Guard gets three separate triggers from Thatcher Revolt, so you can copy the Battle Hymn in between the triggers and still be able to copy the Thatcher's Revolt again)

That doesn't work, because once Thatcher's Revolt has resolved, allowing for Midnight Guard's triggers, it is no longer on the stack.

It still nets a lot of mana off of the battle hymn, though.

[Foeofthelance]

That doesn't work, because once Thatcher's Revolt has resolved, allowing for Midnight Guard's triggers, it is no longer on the stack.

It still nets a lot of mana off of the battle hymn, though.

It works something like this:

1) Enchant Midnight Guard with Dual Casting
2) Cast Thatcher Revolt
3) Cast Battle Hymn
4) Activate Midnight Guard targeting Thatcher Revolt

So the stack now reads Thatcher Revolt, Battle Hymn, Thatcher Revolt

5) Second Thatcher Revolt resolves, putting three triggers on the Guard
6) First trigger resolves, Guard untaps. Target Thatcher Revolt again.
7) Second trigger resolves, Guard untaps. Target Battle Hymn again.
8) Third trigger resolves.
9) Second Battle Hymn resolves, adding more mana to your pool.
10) Third Revolt resolves, adding three more triggers to Guard.
11) Go back to 5 and repeat through 10 till satisfied

[Forrestfire]

Ah ok. I had totally forgot that Guard could be activated beforehand

[Lord Seth]

The thing is, the shock lands are almost always worth picking up when possible. They aren't going to get any cheaper than $12 because they're multiformat staples, so you may as well pick them up now so you have them for the whole Standard environment. They will be worth it if you plan to play any decks of their colors ever.

That's not true. Some are cheaper than $12 right now, and I'm talking about from actual online stores, not eBay (where the prices are usually the lowest they'll be). They're probably going to go down even over the next few months because (1) supply will keep going up and (2) the initial demand will wane because the people who needed them right away will have already bought them.

There probably will be a price spike (roughly) around the time Innistrad rotates out, though.

[tgva8889]

Fair enough. The fact that I was wrong on the prices doesn't mean they aren't worth picking up quickly. Allowing yourself to play a Standard deck with much better mana is worth $48 in my opinion, especially if you can be pretty sure you can get value back in two years. If you can get them for cheaper, then you should be picking that up immediately.

[Squark]

Fair enough. The fact that I was wrong on the prices doesn't mean they aren't worth picking up quickly. Allowing yourself to play a Standard deck with much better mana is worth $48 in my opinion, especially if you can be pretty sure you can get value back in two years. If you can get them for cheaper, then you should be picking that up immediately.

Oh, you meant getting one or two playsets for your favorite color combinations, not collecting a playset of the entire cycle. That's much more reasonable.

[Lea Plath]

Pick up Shocks as soon as possible. In modern, shocks vary from 15-20 dollars and you generally need multiple shocks. They can also be used in Legacy as replacement revised duals. They will be useful and probably hold their value pretty well.

I can also see Desecration Demon being used in The Gate or MBC Modern/Legacy decks as replacement Abysals, but depends on the meta. Bitterblossom and stuff pretty much negate DD.

Abrupt Decay, I think, will drop to 10 dollars. It looks to be played (but not massivly so) in standard, and a 2 mana removal spell that kills anything 3 mana or less (in formats with a lot of 3 mana or less creatures, enchantments and artifacts) will be used.

Now, is anyone any good with zombies or jund control/mid? I'm tweaking my deck and I'm looking to save up to travel around the UK playing in tournies in my break.

[Lord Loss]

I'm playing magic for the first time in a few years and I went out and made myself a Rakdos deck for standard. I'm aiming for a budget deck so a lot of my choices are going to be suboptimal. Any idea how I could improve this deck without resorting to expensive cards?

Rakdos Deck Wins

Creatures (x26)

Hellhole Flailer x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Rakdos Shred-Freak x4
Thrill-Kill Assassin x3
Stonewright x4
Rix-Maadi Guildmage x3
Stromkirk Noble x2
Gore-House Chainwalker x2

Other Spells (x12)

Pillar of Flame x2
Thunderous Wrath x3
Auger Spree x3
Mizzium Mortars x2
Banners Raised x2

Lands (x22)

Evolving Wilds x2
Dragonskull Summit x1
Rakdos Guildgate x4
Swamp x6
Mountain x9

[Penguinizer]

I'm curious, why does it not include Searing Spear or Brimstone Volley?

For reference, here's my Rakdos deck I have yet to test since I'm too lazy to go to the T2 fnm that's farther away. (We play whatever we feel like in a non-sanctioned form at my closer LGS.)

Lands: 21
4x Blood Crypt (Something I'll probably accumulate over time, will work without.)
4x Dragonskull Summit
8x Mountain
5x Swamp

Spells:14
4x Brimstone Volley
3x Searing Spear
3x Thunderous Wrath
3x Pillar of Flame

Creatures:25
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak
4x Gore-House Chainwalker
3x Ash Zealot
4x Hellhole Flailer
3x Hellrider

Sideboard:
4x Electricker (super secret tech)
4x Torchfiend or Manic Vandal
4x Mark of Mutiny
3x Victim of Night

I'm considering adding Rixmaadi Guildmage but can't really think of what to cut out.

[Lord Loss]

Good idea, I had thought about it but didn't actually go through with it till now. I got a playset of Searing Spears, but my local store didn't have any copies of Brimstone Volley. I replaced the three Thrill-Kills with Searing Spears, any idea what I should swap out for the fourth?

EDIT: Thinking of cutting the Guildmages and keeping the Thrill-Kills

[Ninjaman]

I just played a game on cockatrice with my B/G zombies against a guy with a deck that looked somewhat like this:

4 Champion of the parish
4 War falcon
4 Elite inquisitor
4 Knight of glory
3 Thalia
1 Geist of saint Traft
3 Lyev skyknight
3 Silverblade paladin
2 restoration angel
3 Suprime archangel
5-7 of something i can't remember

And a sideboard that included
Riders of gavony
Detention sphere
Rest in peace

I won 2-1, which i think illustrates just how good the new zombies are, this deck contains so much of the zombie hate that it could seem like an impossible matchup, but the zombies still have enough ways to play around it to stand a chance. I was actually quite amazed by how well the zombies did against the deck.

[Razaele]

So, I've been playing again in FNM's lately, and I noticed that the decks that have given me the most trouble (I play Golgari Zombies, btw) are decks that feature things like Centaur Healer and Thragtusk. I've tried using things like Crippling Blight to at least shut them down, but I just can't get around the insane amount of life gain. I was thinking of maybe putting in a couple of Stab Wounds in my sideboard, but I'm not very hopeful with that because most decks that run Centaur Healers and Thragtusks also run Restoration Angels.

Maybe Appetite for Brains? Is there a way to stop the life gain before it happens? Maybe an enchantment?

[Fable Wright]

So, I've been playing again in FNM's lately, and I noticed that the decks that have given me the most trouble (I play Golgari Zombies, btw) are decks that feature things like Centaur Healer and Thragtusk. I've tried using things like Crippling Blight to at least shut them down, but I just can't get around the insane amount of life gain. I was thinking of maybe putting in a couple of Stab Wounds in my sideboard, but I'm not very hopeful with that because most decks that run Centaur Healers and Thragtusks also run Restoration Angels.

Maybe Appetite for Brains? Is there a way to stop the life gain before it happens? Maybe an enchantment?

Yes, but it's not one that you're likely to run, as it requires red mana and costs 6 to cast. Wizards included the efficient lifegain cards in the set as a way to counter Golgari-style decks, so... yeah. Appetite for Brains probably would do you some good from the board, though. Restoration Angel and Thragtusk are both legal targets for it, and getting rid of those before they hit the board is big. Other than that, I recommend killing the Healers as soon as you get a chance when the opponent doesn't have 4 mana open. It decreases the chance of lifegain off a Restoration Angel into a good board state, and when they have mana for the Angel up, you're basically throwing away removal spells when you try to hit their creatures. Otherwise... I just have to say, life was easier when I still had Lashwrithes and Phyrexian Obliterators to plow through the life totals. Hopefully Lotleth troll can do the same thing... [/2cents]

[Razaele]

Yes, but it's not one that you're likely to run, as it requires red mana and costs 6 to cast. Wizards included the efficient lifegain cards in the set as a way to counter Golgari-style decks, so... yeah. Appetite for Brains probably would do you some good from the board, though. Restoration Angel and Thragtusk are both legal targets for it, and getting rid of those before they hit the board is big. Other than that, I recommend killing the Healers as soon as you get a chance when the opponent doesn't have 4 mana open. It decreases the chance of lifegain off a Restoration Angel into a good board state, and when they have mana for the Angel up, you're basically throwing away removal spells when you try to hit their creatures. Otherwise... I just have to say, life was easier when I still had Lashwrithes and Phyrexian Obliterators to plow through the life totals. Hopefully Lotleth troll can do the same thing... [/2cents]

Yeah, I'm not really going to be able to cast that unless I go Jund, in which case I should probably go with Slaughter Games instead.

Maybe I should try and build a mid-range Golgari deck instead, and toss in a set of Thragtusks for myself. Fight fire with fire!

[Squark]

So, I'm thinking of building a rakdos deck, as I have a lot of the cards I need, and it'd basically have the same strategy my previous mono black decks had. So, the cards I know I want in the dec

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Manabase: 4x Blood Crypt
4x Dragonskull Summit
14x Swamp
1x Mountain

Creatures: 4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Desecration Demon

Other Spells: 3x Victim of the Night
3x Tragic Slip
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Lilliana of the Viel

That's 49 cards, and the only rares I'd need are the lands, and I think I can pick those up easily enough. The question is, what else goes in. An aggro deck might appreciate blood artist and another one drop (I'm hesitant to play gravecrawler, since I don't think I have enough zombies to make it work), while with a control deck, I can put in Mutilate and Sever the bloodline, but Rakdos Cackler seems dead there, and I'm not sure what to replace it with (And I feel Desecration demon needs at least 16-20 creatures to support it)

[Lord Seth]

No mention of the new "Modern Masters" set? Apparently Wizards of the Coast is going to do a Master's Edition-esque set, this time geared towards Modern staples and more importantly, in actual print. It's apparently draftable as well. In terms of content, though, all we know is that Tarmogoyf will be a mythic rare in it.

[Sohala]

You hope it will be in there.

[IthilanorStPete]

You hope it will be in there.

No, it's the one card confirmed in. Aaron Forsythe showed it off when he previewed Modern Masters.

I like this; Master's Edition-style things are cool, and it'll be neat to draft it - kind of a Cube-like thing.

Other details:
-15 mythics, 53 rares, 60 uncommons, 101 commons. (rarity on some cards has been shifted around)
-20-30 new art pieces.
-basic land slot is replaced by a foil in EVERY pack.
-MSRP of a booster pack is $6.99. Combined with the limited print run, it's not going to be cheap.

[Mystic Muse]

When's the release date?

[IthilanorStPete]

June 2013.

[Lhurgyof]

Have any of you guys made custom tokens/cards before?

This is kinda what I have going on. I use Magic Set Editor.

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[IthilanorStPete]

Have any of you guys made custom tokens/cards before?

This is kinda what I have going on. I use Magic Set Editor.

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Your links are broken...they have an extra slash at the end. Here's the fixed versions:

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EDIT: Whoops, that didn't work either. You need a direct link to the image, I think.

[Lhurgyof]

Your links are broken...they have an extra slash at the end. Here's the fixed versions:

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Hmm, I'm not sure what the problem is... I think ImageShack is just being a little screwed up at the moment.

Edit: Fixed Original

Edit again: If anyone has some cool art for tokens that they'd like to share, I'd be very grateful, as sometimes finding art for the tokens (and the artist to give credit to them) is very hard.

[Lord Seth]

-MSRP of a booster pack is $6.99. Combined with the limited print run, it's not going to be cheap.

Not a big fan of either. It'd be great if this could be used for Friday Night Magic, even for just a few weeks before Magic 2014 comes out. But the higher price and limited print run seem like it'll sabotage that, because FNM seems out as stores probably don't want to charge extra for it, and the limited print run prevents makes it seem like it'd be harder to draft with even for fun. Hopefully even if it's "limited" it'll still be a large print run.

I guess it's something, and it's nice that Tarmogoyf is finally having something done about it, but it still does feel like they could have done a little more.

[Lhurgyof]

Not a big fan of either. It'd be great if this could be used for Friday Night Magic, even for just a few weeks before Magic 2014 comes out. But the higher price and limited print run seem like it'll sabotage that, because FNM seems out as stores probably don't want to charge extra for it, and the limited print run prevents makes it seem like it'd be harder to draft with even for fun. Hopefully even if it's "limited" it'll still be a large print run.

I guess it's something, and it's nice that Tarmogoyf is finally having something done about it, but it still does feel like they could have done a little more.

Limited Print Run is bad news bears...