Lords of Creation: Boundless Wonder, Endless Strife. [IC] [Part II]

[HalfTangible]

Vargull, Peace Conference

Nodding to Morgash, Vargull responded "Why is a mortal believing themselves destined for Hell, or deserving of Hell, any more a reliable than the oh so fallible will of the gods? Despite your claims to the contrary, Hell as it is now exists is a strike against free will. Why should the choices of a mortal in life be punished for any time in death, even if they for whatever reason feel they deserve it? Why can no soul in Hell be allowed to leave it without being remade? Hell was a mistake, made by mistaken gods. We moving forward, trying to forge common coalition, should not have to live with its legacy merely for sentiments sake."

The Sailor glared at Vargull. Don't give a lecture on what souls deserve and then claim it's wrong to decide what a soul deserves.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Vargull, Council

The armored suit merely stares at the shadow with his burning eyes. "What a ridiculously oversimplified mischaracterization of my words and intent. I do not understand how any of you so called goodly gods can further a system that involves such gross punishment for so called 'crimes' on the mortal plain, whether or not the mortal themselves believe they deserve it. It is laughable to sit here and listen to supposedly 'good' creatures defend torturing any being for two thousand years. No being should be sent to Hell as it is, no being should be kept there. If a being truly feels so terribly about themselves that they believe they deserve Hell, let them torment themselves with their guilt, or let them overcome their self-flagellation. To retain a place with no purpose but suffering seems far more fit for one us so called gods of 'evil' than you would be Paragons."

[HalfTangible]

Vargull, Council

The armored suit merely stares at the shadow with his burning eyes. "What a ridiculously oversimplified mischaracterization of my words and intent. I do not understand how any of you so called goodly gods can further a system that involves such gross punishment for so called 'crimes' on the mortal plain, whether or not the mortal themselves believe they deserve it. It is laughable to sit here and listen to supposedly 'good' creatures defend torturing any being for two thousand years. No being should be sent to Hell as it is, no being should be kept there. If a being truly feels so terribly about themselves that they believe they deserve Hell, let them torment themselves with their guilt, or let them overcome their self-flagellation. To retain a place with no purpose but suffering seems far more fit for one us so called gods of 'evil' than you would be Paragons."

I fail to see how it's a mischaracterization. Especially since you just repeated yourself. He said coldly. Hell is like a prison with it's gates unlocked and unguarded. The souls are only there because they want to be. It's an issue but there are much worse things in existence right now - Kingdoms, slavers, entire knightly orders... Wait, what? I thought you liked the kni- Yes but not the orders, Sailor.

Apparently Sailor was letting Ombra use him as a mouthpiece.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Vargull, Council

"It should not surprise me you would have such strange priorities. A system of torture for a time barely conceivable by the gods themselves seems barely an issue to you because it is self-inflicted, and yet systems which are finite and far less severe you decry because they represent order in any form, something you seem to vehemently oppose. A kingdom is tyrannical and must be torn down, because you see any such subordination to a system that might exploit an individual as a terrible offense, but if they chose a worse fate for themselves you barely seem to bat an eye. What about those people who chose to live under tyrannical figures? How is that choice less legitimate than the choice to live under the tyranny of constant torture for two thousand years. Merely because they believe themselves destined to Hell, does not excuse sending someone there, does not excuse what Hell represents. This system, choice or not, is a far more terrible tyranny than any lowly Knights Order, or fleeting Kingdom."

[Elricaltovilla]

More on the Matters of Afterlife

The system has already been changed Lord Vargull. Had you paid further attention and you would have realised. But that is beside the point.
The Souls that languish in Hell are there because of their mortal decisions. Unlike Isanloff, I support the free will of Mortalkind, despite what my detractors might think. And if the free will of Mortalkind leads them to evil, then so be it.
Hush now, for the matter concerning the passage of the dead from life to death is soon to be decided:
A beam of light surrounded the Judge of the Dead and the sky darkened over. Lightning flickered, but it remained very subdued.
The Judge is correct. There can be no more accurate judgement of a soul than against itself. Mortal decisions regarding morality are often flawed and the divine expectations of them too high.
All are given souls and have the same potential for good and evil, for law and chaos, for loyalty and betrayal; any other difference is meaningless.
He had managed to cool down a bit and no longer had thoughts of smiting anyone at the table. Except for Nettal, but only a little bit.
Anzhela hadn't cooled down, so Belsheroth had sent her sort the books collected by the Belsherai over the aeons. Perhaps he needed to grant his subjects vacations...

And I am telling you that is the wrong way to judge a soul. A good soul will look at the suffering left in the world and say "I did not do enough, I should be punished for my failure" and be sent to Hell. An ambitious soul will look at all that he did not earn and say "I was not strong enough or wise enough, I have failed and I must suffer" and be sent to Hell. Those who do evil unto others will say "I did what I had to do, and I did right by me. I do not deserve to suffer." And judged against their own beliefs, they will be sent to the Starlight Forests, because they believe they should not suffer.

But neither is it right to hold all souls to the same standard. That was the mistake that was Karma. That was the torch that lit the flame of godly war.

I say let each god spread to their followers the example to be set, and let mortals choose which among those examples to follow. And then, allow them to be measured against each other and the goal set and defined by their chosen God. And for those who do not choose, let them make their own way, be that Lichdom, Vampirism, Oblivion, or the deads' judgement.

[HalfTangible]

Vargull, Council

"It should not surprise me you would have such strange priorities. A system of torture for a time barely conceivable by the gods themselves seems barely an issue to you because it is self-inflicted, and yet systems which are finite and far less severe you decry because they represent order in any form, something you seem to vehemently oppose. A kingdom is tyrannical and must be torn down, because you see any such subordination to a system that might exploit an individual as a terrible offense, but if they chose a worse fate for themselves you barely seem to bat an eye. What about those people who chose to live under tyrannical figures? How is that choice less legitimate than the choice to live under the tyranny of constant torture for two thousand years. Merely because they believe themselves destined to Hell, does not excuse sending someone there, does not excuse what Hell represents. This system, choice or not, is a far more terrible tyranny than any lowly Knights Order, or fleeting Kingdom."

I put the Shadows on the planet specifically to kill kings and emperors because tyrannical systems are wrong - the people who are under them never choose them. They simply refuse to resist, because whoever made them made them cowards. He glared at Vargull. It's hardly Hell's fault the souls in it think themselves evil.

How is suffering because of your own choices worse than suffering because of someone else's, hm?

[Mynxae]

I fail to see how it's a mischaracterization. Especially since you just repeated yourself. He said coldly. Hell is like a prison with it's gates unlocked and unguarded. The souls are only there because they want to be. It's an issue but there are much worse things in existence right now - Kingdoms, slavers, entire knightly orders... Wait, what? I thought you liked the kni- Yes but not the orders, Sailor.

Apparently Sailor was letting Ombra use him as a mouthpiece.

The Peace Conference

Isyldar regarded the Sailor with disdain at this comment. "How is it unlocked and unguarded? I managed to barely slip through and then almost got smote down by Belsheroth himself" said Isyldar with an angry tone.

Alyveran nudged his mind slightly, and his eyes glowed red briefly as his voice deepened. "And my Devils watch over Hell, as is their purpose, as well as protect The Virus, which they were unable to do BECAUSE of my Father!" He said angrily. "Hence why I requested them, so they could be better put to use rather than sit around Hell doing nothing when my Father won't let them free" stated Alyveran coldly, before shaking his head and the red glow was replaced by the usual cold green light.

Veran

The aircraft had landed in the hangar and the ships sailed into port, which sent two functionaries scurrying to find Alyverai. They both found him at exactly the same time, as he walked down the main road looking for some hot food for a nice lunch for a change, rather than sit back and wait for it to be brought to him by the palace servants.

They babbled at him, trying to override each other before he put a finger to both of their mouths and a stream of magic went inside and silenced them, if however briefly. "You, tell me what is going on. Then it shall be the other's turn" stated Alyverai to the left functionary, then glanced at the left and immobilised his vocal chords until he was ready to hear his news.

"My lord, the aircraft have returned and bring good news. They obliterated some of the outlying villages on the edge of the border of the Land of Beauty!" stated the first functionary breathlessly. Alyverai nodded at him, a small smile on his face. "Now, you can speak" stated Alyverai and released the other functionary's vocal chords.

"The warships have come into port and bear great tidings, my lord. They have destroyed a number of the coastal towns and villages with maximum enemy casualties!" stated the second functionary with glee. "Excellent. You may both leave" said Alyverai, pushing their minds with magic so they would leave him in peace.

As soon as he was alone, he spiraled into the air and whooped with joy. "It's working! My plan is working!" he thought as he laughed with happiness. He flung his hands up into the air and a firework burst out from each of his fingertips, exploding in all around the city in bright colours of red, green and blue as he let his deep voice ring out in the city "We have started war with the Land of Beauty! Let it be known that we are to be feared! Prepare a great feast, for we shall dine like kings tonight!" he boomed.

[Drowlord]

The Deep

Aquaeris bows, his cape swirling. Then he was gone.

Acabarë

The sea-god smiles, almost evilly. A sudden smell filled the air, almost like ozone.

"Good. I know I can trust you now."

His glow turns an almost pensive shade.

"Now then, to matters. I have a very important question to ask, and I prefer a trustworthy, neutral party answer it. I have found one here. Of course, if you are too busy, I will not bother you."

[Yeshon]

The Peace Council

"Punish? I believe you are confusing us with the devils. We sent them to Hell because we had two options before us and the Forests of Starlight would have been worse than Hell for them."

"Consider it, if you worked your entire life, slaughtering and scrapping your way to the heights of mortal power, would you accept a life of peace? For them, the racks of Hell are a comfort to what they would perceive as the stasis of the Forest."

The Judge spread his arms, "We do not intend to punish, but there were those suited for the Forest and then there were those suited for Hell, what happens in these planes were not our concern."

Thorondor's face twisted with disgust, "That cold."

"If I have presented my race as compassionate, then I apologize. Regardless, I am not here to speak of our past judgements, those already in Hell belong to the Devils and whatever god controls the plane. I would plead you negotiate with him if your want the souls released."

"If I understand it correctly, I am here to speak of future judgements and how they may be carried out in a way acceptable to all."

He looked to Nettal, "True, they do say that, but... it is difficult to explain. Suffice it to say, a soul cannot lie to itself. The soul is the objective person, I cannot say more without revealing the secrets of judgement, something I'm sworn to uphold upon pain of being consigned to Oblivion."

The War in the North

The Captain did not react in time to the Barghest's assault and took several axe blows before finally collapsing into a heap, his blood and guts displayed for all the world to see.

Only a few knight had noticed the captain's demise letting losse a collective roar, intent on avenging him. But what came next, silenced them.

Perhaps the Barghest thought he had won the day? Perhaps not. Regardless as soon as he hit the ground, his dismembered hand, still clutching the Drownsword floated seemingly of its own volition, flew for the Barghest's throat.

In a grotesque display the Imposter's blood seemingly came alive and pulled his disparate body parts back together.

The Imposter smiled, "I hope so, I'd hate to be the only one enjoying this."

Cerune- Inside the Room

The Imposter raised an eyebrow.

While Sophia, enraged at the sight of the dead Ravenkin, charged Profanti the Rune Blade sweeping for his neck, "I'll kill you for that!"

The Imposter smiled, "I'll let you make the first move as well."

He gently set the Butler's jar on the floor beside him.

Acabare

Gwyn bowed slightly to Aqaerius, she'd be lying if she said she wasn't confused.

"Assuming you are speaking of me, what do you wish my advice on?"

She looked a little concerned looking at the world.

"In honesty, I cannot hear what is happening and I do not know the cause."

[Drowlord]

Acabarë

Aquaeris kept smiling. "I've had it happen to me before. There is a dull grey thing who doubts, and spreads doubt. He sits and weaves. However, my mortals are faithful and believe in me, so I feel them. However-"

His face suddenly twitched into an intense expression of warning. His eyes were wide and full of pain. His mouth was open in a silent yell. But that was only for a few moments. It soon became normal.

"-I don't think it's quite the same, but he might be the cause all the same."

He turned slightly away.

"I wished to ask your advice on one thing. Look into the gem."

He put it towards her gently.

[HalfTangible]

The Peace Conference

Isyldar regarded the Sailor with disdain at this comment. "How is it unlocked and unguarded? I managed to barely slip through and then almost got smote down by Belsheroth himself" said Isyldar with an angry tone.

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I need to turn off the playground for a while and do my english essay - i'll get to Cerune later

It's a metaphor, you idiot!! Uh, Ombra said that lord, not mIt means it's easy to get in and easy to get out, all you have to do is decide!! Creator's blood, why do I need to explain this?

The Sailor formed a hand and held his own throat. Is there an actual REASON Ombra can't come down here personally? This is starting to hurt my throat. I didn't know it was possible to hurt my throat.

Cerune- Inside the Room

The Imposter raised an eyebrow.

While Sophia, enraged at the sight of the dead Ravenkin, charged Profanti the Rune Blade sweeping for his neck, "I'll kill you for that!"

The Imposter smiled, "I'll let you make the first move as well."

He gently set the Butler's jar on the floor beside him.

The Doctor's eyes widened. Huntress-

On it! She charged with Sophia for Profaniti, a pair of blades growing from each side like an arm.

The Doctor formed a pair of Hammers from his body and advanced towards the Imposter, more cautiously than the Huntress. The temperature in the room began to fall. So, would-be-conquerer, what's your gimmick? He asked, voice indicating he'd probably heard them all before. I swear if I hear one more idiot say 'this mass genocide i'm comitting is for the good of the world' I'm gonna throw myself in a volcano so I don't have to remember it.

[Yeshon]

The Peace Conference

If an Inevitable was here there would be a long dissertation given on the nature of the planar barrier put around the prime material. How the world was too fragile to support a lesser god's essence, of the defense mechanism the world itself put into place to protect itself, a simple barrier feeding off the innate dreams of gods that expelled those with too much power.

But an Inevitable wasn't here, instead, Thorondor just shrugged,

"Gods is weird?"

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In case you haven't noticed, Thorondor isn't a very pious herald, he honestly considers Gwyn an employer rather than a god and may or may not think everything would be better if Eagles ran the show.

Cerune

The Imposter shrugged, standing to meet the Doctor. "According to my pact, yes, the entire reason I am conducting this campaign is for the good of the world.... But, from what the Butler tells me, you've lived long enough to know one's surface motivations aren't often his true motivations. Though, if you wish to toss yourself into a volcano, please don't let me stop you."

He smiled drawing the Drownsword slowly and taking up a classic fencing stance, "Like I said, your move."

Acabare

Gwyn raised an eyebrow at Aqaerius then nodded, looking into the gem.

[HalfTangible]

The Peace Conference

If an Inevitable was here there would be a long dissertation given on the nature of the planar barrier put around the prime material. How the world was too fragile to support a lesser god's essence, of the defense mechanism the world itself put into place to protect itself, a simple barrier feeding off the innate dreams of gods that expelled those with too much power.

But an Inevitable wasn't here, instead, Thorondor just shrugged,

"Gods is weird?"

I know, right? The Sailor blinked. I mean, couldn't Ombra just cast an illusion of himself down here if he really needed to show up in person? Did he HAVE to hijack my head?

I did not hijack your head. You LET me hijack your head.

Cerune

The Imposter shrugged, standing to meet the Doctor. "According to my pact, yes, the entire reason I am conducting this campaign is for the good of the world.... But, from what the Butler tells me, you've lived long enough to know one's surface motivations aren't often his true motivations. Though, if you wish to toss yourself into a volcano, please don't let me stop you."

Honesty. How refreshing. He muttered dryly.

He smiled drawing the Drownsword slowly and taking up a classic fencing stance, "Like I said, your move."

...A three thousand year old demigod and he picks fencing. The Doctor muttered, bored. ...Eh, why not? His hammers withdrew into his body, and a proper fencing blade formed from his arm (still attached, obviously) and readied himself.

After a brief moment, he thrusted. From over twenty feet away.

Suddenly, icicle!! Right from the blade tip!

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Peace Conference

Vargull stared down the Sailor, but his eyes bore not into the mortal shadow, but into the god beyond "One believing oneself destined for Hell, or believing oneself evil should not consign them to Hell. They do not CHOOSE Hell, it is as the Judge said a Judgement based on their souls self-objectivity. I very much doubt many of the souls in Hell CHOSE to be there or WANT to be there. Your claim that it's 'easy to get out and get in' does not seem on the mark. Do you honestly believe the souls in Hell could merely discard their shackles, and waltz out of that torture pit? It seems even gods are barred from entering and leaving of their own free will. Hell is an inanimate thing, a place, it is the GODS who are at fault, yourself no less. You scoff at the tyrannies foisted upon the immortal soul, the everlasting spirit, upon the eternity thereafter, to rage at your biased interpretation of 'cowardly gods' and 'evil tyrants'. Your naivete and cognitive dissonance is laughable. Your self-awareness, non-existent. Just because you judges suppose it is a 'better' place for evil souls than the Forest does not make it the RIGHT place. Not all evil souls are alike, so assuming none would enjoy the peace of the Forests seems like folly to me. If Hell were merely a place of continual struggle, a place like the Mortal realm where strength of spirit and self, where cunning and power could earn you a high place, I would not be so concerned, but it is not. For those deemed 'good' by their own spirits and by the biased gods of 'good' there is peace until they choose otherwise. For those deemed 'evil' there is torment, and then forced oblivion as what makes them individual is remade and reincarnated to start the cycle again. Merely making exceptions for the specific followers of we gods of 'evil' is not enough to balance this monopoly on justice you claim."

War in the North

Vuk'Garan laughed, lifting his huge black sword. "Indeed, I will have to find a way to put you down for good."

Cerune, Aftermath

Prophaniti lifted his free hand, sending a gale of bright white energy at the Huntress to push the Shadow back and give her nowhere to hide.

Against Sophia, his fingers twitched and his Ravenkin puppet, and she drew the blade at her waist, leaping forward to block Sophia's blade as skillfully as she had in life, far more so infact, yet despite this her body still seemed to loll, her head rolling slowly upward until her dead eyes stared into Sophias and she let out a piercing laugh like a ravens caw, and spoke in Profaniti's voice "But dear Knight, I am not the Killer here. You are."

[planswalker]

Ocean's Depths - Graiah

While lurking and dreaming in the depths of his domain, watching and feeling as the Green dug in its roots where it had settled, Graiah felt something near his forest. Creatures of the deep that had lived down here long before he himself had taken up residence. Perhaps his uncle Aqueris' Deepspawn who lived down here? He should greet them. He had noticed that mortals tended to be unable to see him directly, a useful thing most times, though perhaps a little inconvenient now.

Not too inconvenient though. Life was able to fill almost any niche imaginable. Forming life to fill the niche of speaking on Graiah's behalf was not difficult. Some of the eels of the deep that had started living among the Greensea Forest had already begun to be affected by the powers of the Green. Their scales had come to take on the power of the Green itself and were viridian in color. Much like the wyrdfish before them, they had sacs all down the lengths of their bodies to store the energy of the Green. Unlike the wyrdfish, though, these eels converted the energy into light with which to attract prey and to light their way. They had already begun to be more clever, more cunning. Graiah merely accelerated the process and planted the simple seed of a thought in their heads: Graiah exists.

The small minds of these deep eels were not sufficient to grasp such a thought. Thus, like all life, it adapted a means to cope with such. Their minds grew and shaped themselves around this idea. In time, it came to be a racial memory of theirs: Graiah existed, and he was lord of the Green. All of them were born knowing this fact, though few could actually percieve the god and hear his voice. Only the most devoted who spent their lives persuing this idea were able to contact the divine directly. The rest were content with the knowledge that he was.

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AP: 0=3-1(create life: the the Awakened, a race of green eels with glowing sacs along their bodies that share a racial memory which says Graiah exists. They don't know more than that inherently, and his exact nature is a mystery to them)-2(create organization: the Prophets)

the Prophets are the most devout among Graiah's thinking creations. They are not only aware of his existence, but fully believe with every fiber of their being that he is out there guiding all life to flourish. Currently, only the deep sea flavor of prophet exists, as the Awakened are the only sentient things which Graiah has made (excluding his semi-divine avatar and the Vine Sprites, who have yet to be made aware of Graiah's existence). When PLOT convenient, Graiah will enter the dreams of one of his Prophets to tell them what to do.

also, picture of the Awakened. They're about 3' long.

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The Deeps - First Contact With the Deepspawn

One day, one of the truly devout among the Deep Prophets prayed to Graiah to learn what it was he was to do with his life, and, much to his surprise, he received an answer.

GO AND SPEAK TO THE DEEPSPAWN OF AQUERIS. THEY ARE YOUR COUSINS IN THE FAITH.

Surprised to his core to recieve such a literal answer to his prayer, he nonetheless did as he was bid and went out to meet the Deepspawn. As it neared a group of the creatures, it called out, "Um, hello out there? I am Greenscale, a Deep Prophet of Graiah. God kinda told me to make contact with you."

The Surface World - Antheima

On the dry land above, Antheima had been roaming for a while, speaking with the grasses and trees, learning of the lands. She learned of her father's Vine Sprites, but left them alone for now to continue their work. The revelation of her, and by extension her father's existence would be disruptive to them for now.

One day when roaming the lands, she came across a band of one of the more intelligent types of animals on the surface. These ones were moving together in a herd. Normally she passed by such things without giving them a second thought, but these ones held her interest. She could not say why, exactly.

With semi-divine swiftness, Antheima approached the pack of humans. In order to avoid startling them too badly as a 20' deer made of wood and moss approached them, she stood back a good ways and called out, "Hello there, traveling ones. I am Antheima, and I wonder if you would be so kind as to speak with me for a while."

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the herd of traveling "animals" referred to here are the Lloya, btw.

[HalfTangible]

Peace Conference

Vargull stared down the Sailor, but his eyes bore not into the mortal shadow, but into the god beyond [COLOR="red"]"One believing oneself destined for Hell, or believing oneself evil should not consign them to Hell. They do not CHOOSE Hell, it is as the Judge said a Judgement based on their souls self-objectivity. I very much doubt many of the souls in Hell CHOSE to be there or WANT to be there. Your claim that it's 'easy to get out and get in' does not seem on the mark. Do you honestly believe the souls in Hell could merely discard their shackles, and waltz out of that torture pit?

Yes. He said flatly. Unless you deliberately crafted your mortals so they can't? In which case, it's YOUR fault. Not hell's.

It seems even gods are barred from entering and leaving of their own free will. Hell is an inanimate thing, a place, it is the GODS who are at fault, yourself no less. You scoff at the tyrannies foisted upon the immortal soul, the everlasting spirit, upon the eternity thereafter, to rage at your biased interpretation of 'cowardly gods' and 'evil tyrants'. Your naivete and cognitive dissonance is laughable. Your self-awareness, non-existent.

Well now you're just being insulting for the fun of it.

If they're there it's because they want to be good, and their gods don't give enough of a damn to give them their own afterlife. He said coldly. If you gave a damn at all you would make your own afterlife and bring the souls of mortalkind there. But you did not. Your pathetic attempts to appear benevolent ring false, as does your attempt to paint me evil.

I am not a good god, obviously. He glared darkly, getting right into Vargull's face. But compared to the rest of this gods-forsaken universe?

Just because you judges suppose it is a 'better' place for evil souls than the Forest does not make it the RIGHT place. Not all evil souls are alike, so assuming none would enjoy the peace of the Forests seems like folly to me. If Hell were merely a place of continual struggle, a place like the Mortal realm where strength of spirit and self, where cunning and power could earn you a high place, I would not be so concerned, but it is not. For those deemed 'good' by their own spirits and by the biased gods of 'good' there is peace until they choose otherwise. For those deemed 'evil' there is torment, and then forced oblivion as what makes them individual is remade and reincarnated to start the cycle again. Merely making exceptions for the specific followers of we gods of 'evil' is not enough to balance this monopoly on justice you claim."

The god of war prefers constant struggle to a brief period of torture. Were you surprised? I was surprised. He added, completely and utterly sarcastic.

Justice? The Sailor sneered. Justice is blind, deaf and dumb. Why would anyone in their right mind want a monopoly on justice?

Frankly the only reason I tolerate an afterlife at all is because A, it's not my domain, and B, there are so many things in the universe that are so much worse. Karma still turns like an oppressive wheel, there is a war in the north to 'end all wars', quote unquote, by uniting all of the north under the banner of a single king, slavery exists... Hell, there are laws against rape and murder!! WHAT KIND OF SICK WORLD IS IT WHEN YOU NEED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT IT'S WRONG TO RAPE AND/OR MURDER!!!

It amazes me - utterly amazes me - that you think you have the moral high ground with this world in such a miserable state. It got worse while we were asleep and could do nothing, sure, but it was already corrupt to the core when I was born!! If you had an ounce of decency I would never have needed to exist.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Vargull, Council

"If they could leave, why is it I cannot find a single example of a soul leaving? Why would they wish to stay? Many beings that are truly evil, understanding what they do is wrong and doing it anyway, would not allow themselves to be punished if they could avoid it. So why don't they? You say they 'want to be good' which I find laughable, that every truly evil creature in Hell WANTS to be good. But even if it were so, has none ever changed their mind? Has none ever reconsidered?

As for the rest of your rambling complaints about the nature of the universe, you only confirm my prior accusation. You are naive and ill informed. I do have an afterlife, which I inherited from my father. My followers as well as many others went to Halasht's Horde, where they do what they will. And your laughable outrage and shock at the need for actual laws shows you do not believe in any kind of real freedom. A mortal populous where such laws are not necessary at all would not be free, for the mortals would be without any real free will, unable to choose to do evil as well as good. To make such a mortal population would make you no better than Isanloff.

Do not mistake me. I am no benevolent deity and I do not pretend to it. I inherit my fathers zeal for freedom, and his unwavering pursuit of that end. Free will is the only moral cause I will champion. I do not care about the rotten nature of the world. I am War. Of course I would prefer a place of eternal conflict. I care not about tyrants, or about mortal torments, about murder, or genocide, or any other kind of violence, physical or spiritual, one mortal can inflict on another. I exist to bring War to the Mortals and to all beings. I care for little beyond that. Freedom is one of the few things I look to beyond War. Beyond that, I have no concern for the so called 'evils' of the universe."

[Elricaltovilla]

He looked to Nettal, "True, they do say that, but... it is difficult to explain. Suffice it to say, a soul cannot lie to itself. The soul is the objective person, I cannot say more without revealing the secrets of judgement, something I'm sworn to uphold upon pain of being consigned to Oblivion."

That is, arguably, the stupidest thing I have heard at this conference. And Anzhela has been here since the beginning. There is no objective truth against which a soul can measure itself, therefore souls cannot be objective in their assessment of the self. If you are not willing to reveal the "secrets" of judgement, then maybe its because you have no idea how to judge souls in the first place!

[HalfTangible]

Vargull, Council

"If they could leave, why is it I cannot find a single example of a soul leaving? Why would they wish to stay? Many beings that are truly evil, understanding what they do is wrong and doing it anyway, would not allow themselves to be punished if they could avoid it. So why don't they? You say they 'want to be good' which I find laughable, that every truly evil creature in Hell WANTS to be good. But even if it were so, has none ever changed their mind? Has none ever reconsidered?

Weren't you listening?! Those who are convinced they've suffered enough get reincarnated.

As for the rest of your rambling complaints about the nature of the universe, you only confirm my prior accusation. You are naive and ill informed. I do have an afterlife, which I inherited from my father. My followers as well as many others went to Halasht's Horde, where they do what they will. And your laughable outrage and shock at the need for actual laws shows you do not believe in any kind of real freedom. A mortal populous where such laws are not necessary at all would not be free, for the mortals would be without any real free will, unable to choose to do evil as well as good. To make such a mortal population would make you no better than Isanloff.

Your scenario implies, Ombra snarled through the Sailor, that mortals are mindless sheep that will do everything that someone else doesn't restrict from them. What kind of idiot designs creatures like that?! I created a society that can choose to do both evil and good without the need for laws. The Blur go against my wishes entirely, enslaving entire populations to their whim. The Shadows commit mass murder and perform kingdom-shattering deeds on a global scale all the time. The Dark Angels have the Whitewing chapter, but one can come and go from their temple as one pleases.

The fact I was the first and so far ONLY god to try society without law truly worries me.

Do not mistake me. I am no benevolent deity and I do not pretend to it. I inherit my fathers zeal for freedom, and his unwavering pursuit of that end. Free will is the only moral cause I will champion. I do not care about the rotten nature of the world. I am War. Of course I would prefer a place of eternal conflict. I care not about tyrants, or about mortal torments, about murder, or genocide, or any other kind of violence, physical or spiritual, one mortal can inflict on another. I exist to bring War to the Mortals and to all beings. I care for little beyond that. Freedom is one of the few things I look to beyond War. Beyond that, I have no concern for the so called 'evils' of the universe."

...By the Creator... I knew you were evil but I didn't know you were an idiot, too! Zeal for freedom?! You exist to wage war - to conscript, to kill, to enslave!! If you're going to commit such atrocities on a global scale have the bloody courtesy to admit it!!

That is, arguably, the stupidest thing I have heard at this conference. And Anzhela has been here since the beginning. There is no objective truth against which a soul can measure itself, therefore souls cannot be objective in their assessment of the self. If you are not willing to reveal the "secrets" of judgement, then maybe its because you have no idea how to judge souls in the first place!

Er, I think he means a judge without bias, my lord. The Sailor said, bowing his head. I admit I don't really understand anything going on here, but it sounded to me like the soul judging itself wasn't an objective method, just one without the bias of another person.

[Elricaltovilla]

The fact I was the first and so far ONLY god to try society without law truly worries me.

Unfortunately Ombra, Nettal said to the ranting god of Shadows, The Histories of the Woden indicate that we were created without society inherent within us. Over time and through independence we forged our own society utilizing the gifts of Druidism that Kiloasa taught us. This ended up getting no small number of us sent to Hell or suffering the wrath of Karma because of Isanloff's self destructive beliefs.

God of Suffering my ass.

Er, I think he means a judge without bias, my lord. The Sailor said, bowing his head. I admit I don't really understand anything going on here, but it sounded to me like the soul judging itself wasn't an objective method, just one without the bias of another person.

If it wasn't an objective method, then why call it objective when describing it? I am asking that the secrets of the Judgement of Souls be made known to all the gods, so that a proper and realistic way of judgement may be determined. If there is no need for change, then there will be no changes made. But if all of you are going to be so hell bent on sending mortal souls to torment for a minimum of 2000 years then don't you have a DUTY to make sure that the process is infallible?

I say let any who feel that that is not the case consign themselves to a mortal form and endure the tortures of Hell for 2000 years, then tell me that the system doesn't need to be as perfect as superhumanly possible.

[HalfTangible]

Unfortunately Ombra, Nettal said to the ranting god of Shadows, The Histories of the Woden indicate that we were created without society inherent within us. Over time and through independence we forged our own society utilizing the gifts of Druidism that Kiloasa taught us. This ended up getting no small number of us sent to Hell or suffering the wrath of Karma because of Isanloff's self destructive beliefs.

God of Suffering my ass.

Ok, I was wrong. But they're not anymore, are they?

Isanloff... I agree with you on him but I'd rather not speak ill of the dead.

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]If it wasn't an objective method, then why call it objective when describing it?

Because semantics are weird?

I am asking that the secrets of the Judgement of Souls be made known to all the gods, so that a proper and realistic way of judgement may be determined. If there is no need for change, then there will be no changes made. But if all of you are going to be so hell bent on sending mortal souls to torment for a minimum of 2000 years then don't you have a DUTY to make sure that the process is infallible?

I say let any who feel that that is not the case consign themselves to a mortal form and endure the tortures of Hell for 2000 years, then tell me that the system doesn't need to be as perfect as superhumanly possible.

Aw, isn't that cute~? Ombra had Sailor's arm ruffle Nettal's hair. He thinks the gods get along~

...Wait, you don't?!

Sailor, why would we be having a peace conference if we got along and agreed on everything of importance?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Vargull, Council

"And that is somehow better? If they choose not to suffer, they are destroyed as an individual. They cannot 'leave'. They can choose to suffer and die as an individual, or they can end their suffering early and consign themselves to the same oblivion. Some would rather experience agony than cease to experience. Reincarnation might be a fine choice for some, but many would do anything to avoid losing themselves so utterly.

As for mortals doing whatever they want, many often do! Not all of course, but some. Enough. I was foolish I must admit, to believe you believed laws are wrong because beings should always do right. Instead, it seems you hate law in all forms. You speak of complete anarchy. The strong and the cunning will do as they please for good or for ill, and they will gather to their sides those of like mind, and those who are weak will seek the protection of the strong. Laws are a natural product of mortal thinking, for even in an anarchy, eventually most mortals will come together or under another with the common desire of avoiding as much death and suffering as possible, and the strong will enforce their wills upon the populous, to keep them in line and to maintain order so that they can continue to be strong, and can withstand attacks from outside without needlessly weakening themselves by allowing opportunists to act however they please. It is how mortals are. It is how gods are.

I exist for War, which does all the things you claim, and I make no efforts to hide the fact, but they are done by mortals, to mortals. They are finite, and can last for only so long. I will not be so arrogant to claim I am infallible, and do not have my own hypocrisies. In Freedom of one kind or another I believe. I believe in existential freedom, in not binding a beings eternal soul to such limited choices as eternal torment or torment for thousands of years and then oblivion. A soul should have the ability to choose its own path, and then to change its mind, without being pigeonholed by the gods or other immortal 'judges'. You seem to support only the pettiest of freedoms, that which is so fleeting, and ultimately meaningless."

[Elricaltovilla]

Ok, I was wrong. But they're not anymore, are they?

Yes, by their own choice. Because having a society and working together towards a common goal is easier and more efficient than doing things on your own. And would you dare to take that choice, made of their own free will, from them?

That would make you as much of a tyrant as any other.

Isanloff... I agree with you on him but I'd rather not speak ill of the dead.

Not speaking ill of the dead is simply lying to the living. The truth exists, why hide from it Ombra?

Because semantics are weird?

Which is why I ask for clarification and demonstration. A puff of smoke and a soul appeared in the room. Nettal turned to the Judge. Here we have a newly departed soul. Commence with the Judgement, oh Judge. Where all can see.

Aw, isn't that cute~? Ombra had Sailor's arm ruffle Nettal's hair. He thinks the gods get along~

...Wait, you don't?!

Sailor, why would we be having a peace conference if we got along and agreed on everything of importance?

Don't touch me, Ombra. Nettal slapped the hand aside. Might I suggest that a god of Freedom and Anarchy cease ruling over another's body so forcibly? The Sailor clearly does not enjoy your control of his form. Or are you really no better than your brothers and sisters?

[HalfTangible]

[QUOTE=Elricaltovilla;13987064]Yes, by their own choice. Because having a society and working together towards a common goal is easier and more efficient than doing things on your own. And would you dare to take that choice, made of their own free will, from them?

That would make you as much of a tyrant as any other.

Yes, I would tear it down without a second thought. A society and a government are two different things: a society works for the betterment of all, it is flexible, fluid and those in charge are there because they are respected; governing bodies force you to respect someone BECAUSE they are in charge and serve no one but the ruler. Ombra glared. Don't lecture me on right and wrong, boy, I've thought about why I do what I do long and hard. You abused my shard and willingly handed a monster entire kingdoms.

Not speaking ill of the dead is simply lying to the living. The truth exists, why hide from it Ombra?

Because you knew him not, the living who cared for him despite his faults may be hurt by it, and they do not deserve acid in the wound.

Naaaaah, he's liein', i can hear his thoughts! it's because he has a cr-

SHUT UP!!

Don't touch me, Ombra. Nettal slapped the hand aside. Might I suggest that a god of Freedom and Anarchy cease ruling over another's body so forcibly? The Sailor clearly does not enjoy your control of his form. Or are you really no better than your brothers and sisters?

I have gained too much power to alight on the mortal realm, so I- Ombra, shut up.The Sailor glared angrily and got right into Nettal's face. Don't presume you know anything of me OR my god, you square-toed fleshsack. I volunteered my services as Ombra's personal taxi/mouthpiece thing when asked. I allow Ombra in my mind of my own free will, and a conquerer of nations knows nothing about-

Sailor, he is newly ascended and doesn't understand Psionics, it's not worth being upset about.

My brain agrees with you. My gut says I should rip out his entrails for a snack since it won't kill h-

Don't try it.

[Elricaltovilla]

Yes, I would tear it down without a second thought. A society and a government are two different things: a society works for the betterment of all, it is flexible, fluid and those in charge are there because they are respected; governing bodies force you to respect someone BECAUSE they are in charge and serve no one but the ruler. Ombra glared. Don't lecture me on right and wrong, boy, I've thought about why I do what I do long and hard. You abused my shard and willingly handed a monster entire kingdoms.

I suggest you take an entry level civics course. I'm pretty sure Calasanctium has a university somewhere. At least it did last time I visited.

A god of freedom acting as a tyrant of anarchy. This is truly enlightening. No wonder the world is so screwed up.

Because you knew him not, the living who cared for him despite his faults may be hurt by it, and they do not deserve acid in the wound.

Naaaaah, he's liein', i can hear his thoughts! it's because he has a cr-

SHUT UP!!

To deny the evils done by the deceased is to encourage their repetition in the future. If you will not speak Ill of the dead for fear of causing harm to those who remember them, then you only make it easier for their mistakes to be encouraged by future generations.

I am not saying that we should insult and ridicule him in his passing. I am saying that we must face the truth of Isanloff's existence and acknowledge it for what it is.

I have gained too much power to alight on the mortal realm, so I- Ombra, shut up.The Sailor glared angrily and got right into Nettal's face. Don't presume you know anything of me OR my god, you square-toed fleshsack. I volunteered my services as Ombra's personal taxi/mouthpiece thing when asked. I allow Ombra in my mind of my own free will, and a conquerer of nations knows nothing about-

Sailor, he is newly ascended and doesn't understand Psionics, it's not worth being upset about.

My brain agrees with you. My gut says I should rip out his entrails for a snack since it won't kill h-

Don't try it.

I would relish the challenge Sailor. However, I have more important matters to attend to than to deal with your misplaced aggression. Multiple times you have expressed discomfort and dislike of the actions Ombra has taken since acquiring your body, I merely pointed that out to the God.

It serves well to illustrate my point. None of you truly seem to care about the mortals that worship you. And when they leave your flock, you destroy them. What great leaders all of you are.

[HalfTangible]

I suggest you take an entry level civics course. I'm pretty sure Calasanctium has a university somewhere. At least it did last time I visited.

A god of freedom acting as a tyrant of anarchy. This is truly enlightening. No wonder the world is so screwed up.

The Sailor blinked. 'Tyrant of anarchy'? That's like a Druid of Barren Wastelands.

He glared. You do NOT need a government or a leader to have teamwork! They are two different things, get over it!

To deny the evils done by the deceased is to encourage their repetition in the future. If you will not speak Ill of the dead for fear of causing harm to those who remember them, then you only make it easier for their mistakes to be encouraged by future generations.

I am not saying that we should insult and ridicule him in his passing. I am saying that we must face the truth of Isanloff's existence and acknowledge it for what it is.

I'm not very good at keeping insults and ridicule separate from criticism.

I would relish the challenge Sailor. However, I have more important matters to attend to than to deal with your misplaced aggression. Multiple times you have expressed discomfort and dislike of the actions Ombra has taken since acquiring your body, I merely pointed that out to the God.

It serves well to illustrate my point. None of you truly seem to care about the mortals that worship you. And when they leave your flock, you destroy them. What great leaders all of you are.

A, it only serves well at all if you ignore that he knows my thoughts and I can kick him out any time I want. The Sailor said coldly. B, the fact you think I would be a challenge to you now speaks volumes about your own delusions and idiocy. You are no better than the gods you claim to be here to correct.

Sailor, you-

No, Ombra, I'm not going to keep quiet. Listen to yourself, druid. "More important matters?" You conquered entire nations, handed them over to a traitor to his own throne and then try to claim the moral high ground? Even if the fact that it's a monarchy wasn't an issue, the nation you fought for conquered through bloodshed and terror, slaughtering whatever got in it's way, lieing to the knights below you and deciding it was okay because you had a divine spark. You are supposed to be a guardian of life, have ended more life than entire nations, and already deem mortalkind beneath you. And you're going to call OMBRA a hypocrite?!

...Oh stop glaring at me like that, Ombra, I agreed to have my memory of this erased so it doesn't affect mortal affairs.

[Elricaltovilla]

The Sailor blinked. 'Tyrant of anarchy'? That's like a Druid of Barren Wastelands.

He glared. You do NOT need a government or a leader to have teamwork! They are two different things, get over it!

There are Druids of the Barren Wastelands. They are as much a part of Nature as the lushest of jungles or the most violent of summer storms.

The choice to have a government or a leader is a choice made by mortals. If you claim to be acting to benefit mortals then you should respect the choices they make. It is that simple and yet it is something that every god here has chosen to ignore for eons.

You have failed in your duties and you are all either ashamed to admit it or in denial about that simple truth. I am trying to get you to fix what you have broken, instead of whining about how corrupt it all is. You are GODS! You have POWER! USE IT!

I'm not very good at keeping insults and ridicule separate from criticism.

I suspected as much from this conversation.

A, it only serves well at all if you ignore that he knows my thoughts and I can kick him out any time I want. The Sailor said coldly. B, the fact you think I would be a challenge to you now speaks volumes about your own delusions and idiocy. You are no better than the gods you claim to be here to correct.

Sailor, you-

No, Ombra, I'm not going to keep quiet. Listen to yourself, druid. "More important matters?" You conquered entire nations, handed them over to a traitor to his own throne and then try to claim the moral high ground? Even if the fact that it's a monarchy wasn't an issue, the nation you fought for conquered through bloodshed and terror, slaughtering whatever got in it's way, lieing to the knights below you and deciding it was okay because you had a divine spark. You are supposed to be a guardian of life, have ended more life than entire nations, and already deem mortalkind beneath you. And you're going to call OMBRA a hypocrite?!

...Oh stop glaring at me like that, Ombra, I agreed to have my memory of this erased so it doesn't affect mortal affairs.

Of course I am no better than the gods I am here to correct. I am a god. In order for you to challenge me at all, I would need to shed my divine spark for a time. There are few enough physical challenges to one who can reshape reality at a whim.

The actions I took were part of an arrangement and contract I made. In exchange for items I found necessary, I agreed to do a service. And these actions were sanctioned by gods here and abroad. If you listen to Anzhela and Belsheroth, the millions of deaths you claim I caused were in fact a good thing, since now they all reside in the Forest of Starlight where they can be peaceful and happy and free and full of nonsense for all eternity.

So yes, I am a monster. I am the dark reflection of the gods, the mirror upon which they dare not look.

[HalfTangible]

There are Druids of the Barren Wastelands. They are as much a part of Nature as the lushest of jungles or the most violent of summer storms.

No, I meant druids who create barren wastelands. Ya know, like "BY THE POWER OF SAND!" and put a big swathe of desert where a jungle used to be

Sailor, he's a druid, he's put more thought into this than you have. Please stop trying.

The choice to have a government or a leader is a choice made by mortals. If you claim to be acting to benefit mortals then you should respect the choices they make. It is that simple and yet it is something that every god here has chosen to ignore for eons.

No, it's not. The whole purpose of a government system is to FORCE obedience - the choice to create one is made by a small group of mortals at BEST, single individuals at worst. You should have leaders BECAUSE you respect them, not respect them because they're your leaders.

You have failed in your duties and you are all either ashamed to admit it or in denial about that simple truth. I am trying to get you to fix what you have broken, instead of whining about how corrupt it all is. You are GODS! You have POWER! USE IT!

...I have ONE solution for improving this universe as quickly as you ask, Nettal. And trust me when I say that you, of all gods, do not WANT me to do it.

My only other option is to do it slowly, through the work of the mortals who agree with me, as is the case with the Shadows.

I suspected as much from this conversation.

Then don't ask. Moron.

Of course I am no better than the gods I am here to correct. I am a god. In order for you to challenge me at all, I would need to shed my divine spark for a time. There are few enough physical challenges to one who can reshape reality at a whim.

If you're no better, why claim to be here to correct them? All you can do is perpetuate the problems, or make them worse.

The actions I took were part of an arrangement and contract I made. In exchange for items I found necessary, I agreed to do a service. And these actions were sanctioned by gods here and abroad. If you listen to Anzhela and Belsheroth, the millions of deaths you claim I caused were in fact a good thing, since now they all reside in the Forest of Starlight where they can be peaceful and happy and free and full of nonsense for all eternity.

I honestly care more about the territory gains than the deaths, but what kind of druid doesn't care about life?!

The opinions of others - even gods - shouldn't matter. The sanctioning of your superiors is no excuse for betraying your own principles. Sailor snapped. ESPECIALLY when you claim those superiors to be very, very bad at their jobs.

So yes, I am a monster. I am the dark reflection of the gods, the mirror upon which they dare not look.

A reflection? The Sailor sneered. Do you have no will of your own, human?

[Elricaltovilla]

No, I meant druids who create barren wastelands. Ya know, like "BY THE POWER OF SAND!" and put a big swathe of desert where a jungle used to be

Sailor, he's a druid, he's put more thought into this than you have. Please stop trying.

Sailor, you should probably take the time to research what you're talking about before trying to form a coherent argument. I would be happy to instruct you in the ways of the Druids and Wildlings if you have time, however that may force a change of alleigance on your part.

No, it's not. The whole purpose of a government system is to FORCE obedience - the choice to create one is made by a small group of mortals at BEST, single individuals at worst. You should have leaders BECAUSE you respect them, not respect them because they're your leaders.

And yet, anyone who does not wish to be a part of a government can choose to live outside of that government. But those who do not wish to have a part of the gods are destroyed outright.

They offer Civics courses at the universities in Calasanctium, or at least they did the last time I visited. You may want to look into taking one. And that was an insult, just to be clear.

...I have ONE solution for improving this universe as quickly as you ask, Nettal. And trust me when I say that you, of all gods, do not WANT me to do it.

My only other option is to do it slowly, through the work of the mortals who agree with me, as is the case with the Shadows.

There is always more than one solution, Ombra. The belief that there is only one way to handle things is what has led to this situation in the first place.

Then don't ask. Moron.

Be careful Ombra, for I am the hardened sap of the rubber tree, and you are ground up horse hooves mixed with water. Whatever you say rebounds off of me and is stuck to you.

If you're no better, why claim to be here to correct them? All you can do is perpetuate the problems, or make them worse.

Because I am aware that I am no better. I am aware of the flaws of this form and of godly philosophy. And because I am aware, I can make others aware as well.

I honestly care more about the territory gains than the deaths, but what kind of druid doesn't care about life?!

The opinions of others - even gods - shouldn't matter. The sanctioning of your superiors is no excuse for betraying your own principles. Sailor snapped. ESPECIALLY when you claim those superiors to be very, very bad at their jobs.

You know so little about druids that you cannot even identify the basic tenets of our philosophy. Death is a part of life, the struggle to survive is what makes life more meaningful than the afterlife. My principles have never been betrayed, in fact I betrayed my superiors in becoming what I am.

A reflection? The Sailor sneered. Do you have no will of your own, human?

You cannot even tell one race from another, yet you insist on arguing with me. I am a Woden, I was born a Woden, have lived my life as a Woden and I am now a god. You have lost any argument you would seek to make, Sailor.

Ombra, once I respected you and your goals. It saddens me to see you with such poor allies.

[HalfTangible]

Sailor, you should probably take the time to research what you're talking about before trying to form a coherent argument. I would be happy to instruct you in the ways of the Druids and Wildlings if you have time, however that may force a change of alleigance on your part.

You speak of Ombra's motivations and the previous actions and beliefs of the gods as if you have known them all of your life. He growled. How is that any different?

And yet, anyone who does not wish to be a part of a government can choose to live outside of that government. But those who do not wish to have a part of the gods are destroyed outright.

They offer Civics courses at the universities in Calasanctium, or at least they did the last time I visited. You may want to look into taking one. And that was an insult, just to be clear.

Uh, no? Kingdoms execute - or worse, IMPRISON - people who break their laws. A person can leave a church any time they want. We do not kill mortals for lack of piety... okay, I don't. Can't speak for, say, Belsheroth.

You want me to learn what the difference is between a corrupt society and a NOT corrupt society... by going to a school within one of the most corrupt regimes on the face of the planet. Ombra rolled the Sailor's eyes. Oh yeah, you are making soooooooooo much sense.

There is always more than one solution, Ombra. The belief that there is only one way to handle things is what has led to this situation in the first place.

I'm already doing the other solution, and it's the solution you want me to STOP doing.

I'll say it slowly. He extended his neck and put his face in Nettal's again. This. World. Is. Beyond. Saving. Nothing I do. Will ever. Work. Unless you think it's okay for me to enslave the entire planet with my mind, or obliterate it to dust? In which case, I'm going to have to kill you.

Be careful Ombra, for I am the hardened sap of the rubber tree, and you are ground up horse hooves mixed with water. Whatever you say rebounds off of me and is stuck to you.

Prose does not change how petty and childish 'no im not you are' is.

Because I am aware that I am no better. I am aware of the flaws of this form and of godly philosophy. And because I am aware, I can make others aware as well.

By that logic, they would've figured it out on their own.

You know so little about druids that you cannot even identify the basic tenets of our philosophy. Death is a part of life, the struggle to survive is what makes life more meaningful than the afterlife. My principles have never been betrayed, in fact I betrayed my superiors in becoming what I am.

Mass murder of anything other than spores is not a part of life. And you know it.

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]You cannot even tell one race from another, yet you insist on arguing with me. I am a Woden, I was born a Woden, have lived my life as a Woden and I am now a god. You have lost any argument you would seek to make, Sailor.

That's actually my fault - putting yourself in someone's head messes up their vision.

...So he's not human?

No, Sailor.

Ombra, once I respected you and your goals. It saddens me to see you with such poor allies.

I was proud a mortal ascended to challenge those who he had been told all his life were his betters. I thought, perhaps now we could actually get something fixed. Ombra snarled. But now I see all the universe got was more of the same. Another arrogant, hypocritical, and rotten to the core beast. Worse, proclaiming itself righteous BECAUSE of those traits.