General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Mewtarthio]

Only the Kickstarter backers have the PDF right now. The book is done, but there's an additional delay associated with getting all the backers' names and adding that last section. The product will be officially released once that's completed. Sorry.

[Turalisj]

The product will be released once all surveys are in and the backer names can be added. Those who donated to where they would get a copy of the PDF received an early copy.

And anyone else notice the bit of a shoutout to the Belgariad? Apparently Irumian sorcery involved the Will and the Word.

[WitchSlayer]

The product will be released once all surveys are in and the backer names can be added. Those who donated to where they would get a copy of the PDF received an early copy.

And anyone else notice the bit of a shoutout to the Belgariad? Apparently Irumian sorcery involved the Will and the Word.

There's a 40k reference in the Cult Combat section and a reference to Beyonce in the Alchemist Guild stereotypes for the su-menent.

[SiuiS]

I did not, for multiple reasons. But people seem to be getting their PDFs, which means it's ready, which means it should be up for sale. Despite this, it's not. And I'm getting impatient.

Nah, early release was a bonus. The whole thing isn't quite ready yet, else why free early access as an incentive?

There's a 40k reference in the Cult Combat section and a reference to Beyonce in the Alchemist Guild stereotypes for the su-menent.

That's pretty hilarious actually. Beyonce? Alchemy? Could you spoil the joke for me, s'il vous plaît?


Also, I am wondering some things. How woul one go about setting up a one-shot game for a nWoD splat? Mortal level is easy, but for werewolf? Mage? Changeling? These things require a set backdrop – more so for Mage and changeling than werewolf, but still. The chronicle seems to really need a stable government background faction, known territory, known specialties within the factions, etc. So how do you say "okay guys, this is the only time we will ever play in this city" but still make merits like Mentor, Allies, and Status work for you? What level of depth is required, and what level is just plot-retentive?

[Lady Serpentine]

Third time's the charm, perhaps?

Sorry for posting so much, but I meant to do this last post, and we're on the subject of Changeling at the moment, so... Would anyone mind informing me just how horribly I messed up my first attempt at Pledgecrafting?

Spoiler

Show

By my true name, I grant you the power to see those who would hide from you for a single moon, one short month. One turning, dark to dark, in which all things will be revealed to you. Further, I swear that none but I shall walk through your dreams for this span, and your pleasant dreams shall themselves be my reward for this service.

By your true name, you grant me leave to walk there that I may perform my task. Swear that you will let me take from your dreams what I deem fair payment, so long as it does you no harm. Swear that you will keep the knowledge I grant you from all who do not know it already, even as I keep your dreams, until the moon is as it was when we swore once again.

And let the one who is forsworn in this oath wake to find its teeth at their throat; ill-luck follow you if you are proved false in your promise of silence, and may my strands on the loom of Fate tangle and snap should my boon prove empty.

Do you so swear?

Changeling:

Dreaming: -2
Ensorcellment: -2
Glamour: +2
Blessing: +2
Curse: -2

Moon: +2

Mortal:

Ensorcellment: +2
Forbiddance: -2
Curse: -2

Moon: +2

Type: Oath, True Name

Invocation: 1 point of Willpower (both?), 1 point of Glamour (Changeling)

Effects:

The Changeling gains a point of Glamour each night that they enter the mortal's dreams, and works to make them both pleasant and safe from other intrusion. They also add two dots to an existing Merit, or gain a new Merit of two dots in strength, for the duration of the Pledge.

The mortal is ensorcelled, gaining the ability to see the things of the supernatural world, so long as they maintain silence about the things that this allows them to see with those not aware of their existence.

Should either party break this pledge, they are immediately afflicted with ill-luck; only a 9 or 10 in any dice pool counts a success.

[The Glyphstone]

Nah, early release was a bonus. The whole thing isn't quite ready yet, else why free early access as an incentive?



That's pretty hilarious actually. Beyonce? Alchemy? Could you spoil the joke for me, s'il vous plaît?


Also, I am wondering some things. How woul one go about setting up a one-shot game for a nWoD splat? Mortal level is easy, but for werewolf? Mage? Changeling? These things require a set backdrop – more so for Mage and changeling than werewolf, but still. The chronicle seems to really need a stable government background faction, known territory, known specialties within the factions, etc. So how do you say "okay guys, this is the only time we will ever play in this city" but still make merits like Mentor, Allies, and Status work for you? What level of depth is required, and what level is just plot-retentive?

They have (free, I think) one-shot adventures for each of the major splats, using those would be a good start (or at least a pattern to base the one-shot off).

[WitchSlayer]

Nah, early release was a bonus. The whole thing isn't quite ready yet, else why free early access as an incentive?



That's pretty hilarious actually. Beyonce? Alchemy? Could you spoil the joke for me, s'il vous plaît?


Also, I am wondering some things. How woul one go about setting up a one-shot game for a nWoD splat? Mortal level is easy, but for werewolf? Mage? Changeling? These things require a set backdrop – more so for Mage and changeling than werewolf, but still. The chronicle seems to really need a stable government background faction, known territory, known specialties within the factions, etc. So how do you say "okay guys, this is the only time we will ever play in this city" but still make merits like Mentor, Allies, and Status work for you? What level of depth is required, and what level is just plot-retentive?

For the stereotype of Su-Menent:

"I appreciate physicality as much as the next woman, but to paraphrase, if you like it then you should put a ring on it. A gold one, with certain properties."

[Sith_Happens]

Third time's the charm, perhaps?

I see nothing wrong with it.

[Lady Serpentine]

I see nothing wrong with it.

Thank you.

Can you explain how to figure out the invocation cost, though, please? I might just be blind, but I can't seem to find it...

[imany]

Okay, having finally started working on pledges myself, can I just ask ...

Why is the mortal swearing on his/her true name?

[Lady Serpentine]

Okay, having finally started working on pledges myself, can I just ask ...

Why is the mortal swearing on his/her true name?

Because that's one of the few types of pledge that mortals can make? It could be sworn on a Mortal Corporal, too, but there's no particular reason for that...

[imany]

I guess I find pledges in general confusing, but..

I thought swearing on your true name had to do with being a changeling. For mortals to swear on their true name, well, I mean they aren't attuned to wyrd the same way so does it have the same effects? The true name doesn't tend to have the same meaning for a mortal, in any case. They probably don't have that many contracts with different changelings and it's that which is penalized by true name.

Besides that, why wouldn't you just swear a normal vow with them rather than swearing on your true name? Unless you have that many ongoing pledges?

C:tL 176: Non-changelings do not receive any additional penalties when forswearing an oath; the pledge is bound to the name sworn on by the changeling parties only.

(Am I just confused?)

[ToySoldierCPlus]

I think you're a bit confused. The only thing the line in the CtL book means is that a non-changeling swearing an oath on his True Name doesn't take any of the penalties associated with it (vulnerability to the fetch, knowledge of his forswearing leaked to others), he just suffers the penalties for forswearing his pledge.

As for True Names having meaning for mortals, you're right... and you're wrong. For an average mortal, no True Name has little meaning. For the Wyrd, however, True Names are very important, whether you're a mortal, or a changeling or anything else. Your True Name matters to the Wyrd.

One might swear an oath on their True Name with a mortal because the changeling in question has already used up a number of their other options for pledges, or simply because it's convenient.

[imany]

Right. That's what I mean, though -- I mean, besides that it is their first pledgecrafting attempt so the slots shouldn't have been filled up already? Regular vows are serious business, oaths are extra serious-- That's my impression, anyway. Mortals don't adequately understand what you are risking and the penalty they take for that seriousness is negligible compared to your own?

I guess I am just wondering why you wouldn't save the true name pledge for a changeling. Swearing on it seems like it shouldn't be taken very lightly (not that any pledge should be, but oaths especially.)

Mortals can swear on anything (like, if I don't do this, let fate strike me down) or whatever, it doesn't have to be an oath. I thought.

[Lady Serpentine]

The slots are not filled, yes. I never got a chance to use this one, even, for that matter, since the only WoD game I was in died before we got past the first scene.

That said, the reasoning was mostly because that was what the only example I had of a pledge involving ensorcellment was, and I'm not entirely clear on how to figure out the invocation cost, so I didn't want to mess with things too much.

In practice, it could just be a Vow, or any other kind of pledge a mortal can swear.

[imany]

-has totally been spending all night reading about this-

The glamour cost seems to be the total points a pledge has minus boons if it isn't a stock pledge.

Step Four: Add the total Glamour costs (task costs for each task + sanction costs for each sanction + duration cost) to determine the amount of Glamour that must be spent to activate the vow. Each party must contribute at least one point of Glamour (for mortals, or changelings who have run out of Glamour, Willpower may be used in place of Glamour, but changelings must use Glamour first if they have it), but the remaining may be divided however the parties involved see fit, as long as the total Glamour cost is paid. This Glamour cost is the activation price of the pledge, and when the vow is spoken aloud and the activation price paid, the pledge is tied to the Wyrd and made manifest.

Honestly though, I'm totally confused what that means when it comes to sealing custom pledges with non-changelings. They don't have glamour to spend -- so with a vampire, would they spend BP? How many WP is it supposed to take per glamour point? Is taking an adjusted existing oath easier to activate than a custom one?

Also :( oh no for dying :(

[Mewtarthio]

Honestly though, I'm totally confused what that means when it comes to sealing custom pledges with non-changelings. They don't have glamour to spend -- so with a vampire, would they spend BP?

Willpower, I presume. The non-changeling contributes a point of Willpower, and the changeling pays everything else.

How many WP is it supposed to take per glamour point?

I'm reading it as a one-to-one substitution.

Is taking an adjusted existing oath easier to activate than a custom one?

Why would it be? The "existing" pledges are just worked examples of the pledgecrafting system.

[SiuiS]

Third time's the charm, perhaps?

Someone commented on it before, did they not?

As it is, it looks good. I think you'll maybe lose out having both pleasant and guarded dreams, but I'm a very 'bad experiences can be good for you' kinda shapeshifter. So.

Costs? I vaguely remember a 'costs are stupid, we'll ignore them unless the total gets above +2' house rule. That's it >_>;

They have (free, I think) one-shot adventures for each of the major splats, using those would be a good start (or at least a pattern to base the one-shot off).

Oh, neat. I'll go looking around then.
I hope they aren't hell to read though.

For the stereotype of Su-Menent:

"I appreciate physicality as much as the next woman, but to paraphrase, if you like it then you should put a ring on it. A gold one, with certain properties."

Ha ha ha!

I think you're a bit confused. The only thing the line in the CtL book means is that a non-changeling swearing an oath on his True Name doesn't take any of the penalties associated with it (vulnerability to the fetch, knowledge of his forswearing leaked to others), he just suffers the penalties for forswearing his pledge.

As for True Names having meaning for mortals, you're right... and you're wrong. For an average mortal, no True Name has little meaning. For the Wyrd, however, True Names are very important, whether you're a mortal, or a changeling or anything else. Your True Name matters to the Wyrd.

One might swear an oath on their True Name with a mortal because the changeling in question has already used up a number of their other options for pledges, or simply because it's convenient.

plus there's no reason to think mortals aren't equally limited in oath amount. Perhaps swearing on his true name leaves him with X vows left?

[Lady Serpentine]

Someone commented on it before, did they not?

As it is, it looks good. I think you'll maybe lose out having both pleasant and guarded dreams, but I'm a very 'bad experiences can be good for you' kinda shapeshifter. So.

Costs? I vaguely remember a 'costs are stupid, we'll ignore them unless the total gets above +2' house rule. That's it >_>;

That'd be you, saying you were going to look at it after you'd slept - which was the extent of said commentary, to the best of my knowledge.

And while you might lose out if you're not allowed to have nightmares, the guarding is specifically talking about Fae intrusion, which I think we can all agree is overly deleterious to one's health to be allowed.

Besides, the exact definition of pleasant can be varied. My thoughts on the matter would be that as long as you're not actually going to horribly scared by it for a while after you wake up, it counts, like reading a horror story, but waking up screaming and shaking is something to prevent. But that's probably best defined by the people making pledge at the time they do so.

Edit: Also, PM box is cleared out now. Sorry if you tried to send me anything while it was full.

[SiuiS]

Besides, the exact definition of pleasant can be varied. My thoughts on the matter would be that as long as you're not actually going to horribly scared by it for a while after you wake up, it counts, like reading a horror story, but waking up screaming and shaking is something to prevent. But that's probably best defined by the people making pledge at the time they do so.

Huh. So act three presto-chango? Terrible nightmare, reduced to silly funhouse ride at the very end? Character helps dreamer off the cart, flicks the (now) obviously fake monster on the nose, makes a comment about how real it looked in the dark, maybe say its fun to bed areas sometimes, ask what they learned?

*scribbles in notebook*

Edit: Also, PM box is cleared out now. Sorry if you tried to send me anything while it was full.

Okay. So far, I've been mentally geared for Mage and Werewolf, which has an entirely different feel to it. I'll give it a once-over and send my initial thoughts if there's nothing new to add immediately.

[Lady Serpentine]

Huh. So act three presto-chango? Terrible nightmare, reduced to silly funhouse ride at the very end? Character helps dreamer off the cart, flicks the (now) obviously fake monster on the nose, makes a comment about how real it looked in the dark, maybe say its fun to bed areas sometimes, ask what they learned?

*scribbles in notebook*

That would work. Allowing normal nightmares to run their course in a relatively standard fashion, but dampening the fear just enough to make it scary in a pleasant way throughout, similar to going through a realistic haunted house in one's sleep, along with steering away from things that bring up anything intensely traumatic, or otherwise a truly horrible nightmare, would be possible as well.

(Sidenote: I take it that 'to bed areas' is your phone's version of 'to go to bad areas', yes?

If not, the only thing I can come up with for it is someone trying to sleep with the geography.. )

Okay. So far, I've been mentally geared for Mage and Werewolf, which has an entirely different feel to it. I'll give it a once-over and send my initial thoughts if there's nothing new to add immediately.

Sounds good.~

[willpell]

Incidentally, oh Great Modthulhu, if you ever see me mention Changeling or Mage on this forum again, please ban me for my own good. Every time I come to this thread, I tell myself I'm only going to say constructive things about the games I like, but then I say something without thinking (in this case a two sentence aside, which I immediately mocked as me just being bitter about a game idea that will never be used), and much nerdrage is incited and I end up burning precious hours of my life. I need an incentive to stop typing before I get started.

I hope you don't mind my laughing (and nodding in sympathy) at this hilarious commentary on the human condition. It's nothing personal, just an observation on someone, to quote the sample in a Kill Hannah instrumental, "noting the compulsiveness of {their} own behavior as it enters {consciousness}...you can't help yourself, realize that {others} can't help themselves". There's definitely a WOD-tastic lesson in that.

[SiuiS]

"fun to be scared sometimes". Oddly, caused because I corrected a minor typo and it sent auto spell into a tizzy.

[Lady Serpentine]

Ah, I see. Well, the intent was close enough that my response is still accurate, at least.

[Sith_Happens]

If not, the only thing I can come up with for it is someone trying to sleep with the geography..

What happens in Arcadia stays in Arcadia.

[SiuiS]

What happens in Arcadia stays in Arcadia.

Unless it doesn't! Then we put it in shiny green book overs and market it as a game line.

[Morty]

We now know a bit more about the upcoming Demon game.

Demon is about looking in the mirror. Recognizing the establishment standing behind you, recognizing that it's used you. Looking into your own eyes, and promising yourself that you're going to change that. And then realizing that no matter what you do, it'll never undo the lies you're going to have to tell.

Demons are former agents of the God-Machine. Once, they delivered revelations and destroyed cities. But each one of them had a moment, a breaking point, an instant in which they realized what they were. Maybe they fell in love, maybe they developed a conscience. In that moment, the demon fell.

Now, they walk among us, in the crowds and the flesh and the stink. They can see the angels and the infrastructure. Some of them want to destroy it. Some of them want to turn it to serve their own ideals. Some just want someplace warm with a bed and a bottle.

And they're all going to Hell.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

...Not sure how I feel about that. Part of me thinks it sounds pretty neat, but another part of me is concerned that it'll become somewhat... metaplot-ty, I guess? I don't know, something just doesn't sit right with me.

[Hyena]

Is it me, or humanity sins table in Vampire is a bit... strange? I know that murder is bad, but in WoD it is part of everyday life and no party can ever spend a night without killing a dozen of enemies. Or is that the point?

[The Glyphstone]

Is it me, or humanity sins table in Vampire is a bit... strange? I know that murder is bad, but in WoD it is part of everyday life and no party can ever spend a night without killing a dozen of enemies. Or is that the point?

That's the point. WoD is no D&D, where parties are marauding sociopathic hobos who gleefully slaughter enemies by the dozens. Murdering someone is a big deal, and scars you appropriately - it's not supposed to be a part of everyday life, and if it is for a character, they won't stay sane for long.