General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Hi Omegalith, I simply once started more vigorous discussion that broke the rules slightly when I and another person forgot the rules of courtesy a little. That and Rpol reduce amount of attention I have for replying for the posts here.

And sadly, much too many people here seem to believe in things that are illogical and annoying to me even from Exalted point of view. Like when I stated that Exalted were in the wrong to overthrow Primordials because it caused more harm than good.

[omegalith]

Like when I stated that Exalted were in the wrong to overthrow Primordials because it caused more harm than good.

Huh, I raised almost exactly the same point a few days ago.

They did need to be taught that less powerful beings are people too though. Pretty much only Autocthon ever realized that.

[Exthalion]

Has it occurred to anyone that the Shinma encode certain fundamentals of logic into the structure of the meaningful Wyld?

Where Nirguna's influence ends things do not exist. There is no Wyld where Nirguna does not hold sway. Therefore, certain statements like "P exists and P does not exist" can never be more then nonsense.

Point of fact, all this mucking about is what Nirvishesha makes impossible. Height cannot be chair because that is not the nature of those as defined by Nirvishesha.

Nirupadhika defines location and so unless purple is a viable positional system (which it isn't) it cannot exist in the area of the Way's influence.

The Shinma are there to impose basic assumptions on the setting even in the midst of essence and narrative order. You can never actually achieve perfection because Dharma exists. (Sorry Sol) You can never not have properties because the Ring exists.

To be sure, the form these things are expressed in is up to the Wyld, but the Shinma are the fundamental logical axioms on which all statements about possibility in Exalted must be evaluated.

[Urpriest]

@omegalith: I agree that any world will be comprehensible to overall logic and science, properly applied. That precludes P and ~P, but it certainly doesn't preclude up becoming purple. Remember, Exalted is instantiated in narratives, oral/written ones, not in observers on a manifold. When any event in Exalted is merely a collection of words, it is certainly possible for the words to be poetically misused and still constitute a coherent narrative.

[Lord Raziere]

well thing is omegalith...

you can't really observe a thing that mostly either tries to show you yourself or what you want to be shone, unless something else imposes something stronger over it. the Wyld, is mostly a bunch of that. Its subjectivity incarnate. the Wyld is like a big giant mind that does nothing but imagine without taking anything about the real world into account, for to the Wyld, nothing is truly real. To the Wyld, there are just stronger illusions than others. the Wyld is like an entire world of people that think all logicians are unfun straw vulcans that spew out logic at every opportunity in a cold voice….then create exactly the stereotype to populate it, then just to mock real logicians, the fake logician's nonsensical technobabble and reverse the polarity solutions work better than actual science within that particular area of Wyld. oh and all the stereotypical straw vulcans are completely blocky, half-green and use fish as weaponry just because.

the only reason why the Wyld even obeys linear time is because the Primordials modified reality to do that. in its most unmodified state, time wasn't linear at all and you probably had a lot of time-traveling shenanigans taking place. and supposedly before that, there was Time Not, which is only theoretical but explains that in the Wyld raw state know as Time Not- things weren't even separate from each other. not only couldn't you figure out anything because time didn't exist, but neither could you figure out how thing A was different from thing B.

in short, the only reason why the Wyld even seems to make sense, is because it has undergone quite some modification to even be maybe comprehensible. Look I'm a rationalist and a scientist who likes logic and consistency and all that too but…sometimes you just like to imagine what you could do if you didn't have to follow all that. the Wyld is that place.

so don't go try figuring out what is, in the end, a giant trollface surrounding the real world going "trololololololololololololololololol, I don't make sense! U mad?" just enjoy the fact that there is a reality somewhere out there in the Wyld, where the laws consist of "all girls become lesbians and make out. all boys become girls" or "You all gain loyal dinosaur mounts, fight the evil giant mecha with them." or even "everything looks like a 2-d mario game"

[Exthalion]

well thing is omegalith...

you can't really observe a thing that mostly either tries to show you yourself or what you want to be shone, unless something else imposes something stronger over it. the Wyld, is mostly a bunch of that. Its subjectivity incarnate. the Wyld is like a big giant mind that does nothing but imagine without taking anything about the real world into account, for to the Wyld, nothing is truly real. To the Wyld, there are just stronger illusions than others. the Wyld is like an entire world of people that think all logicians are unfun straw vulcans that spew out logic at every opportunity in a cold voice….then create exactly the stereotype to populate it, then just to mock real logicians, the fake logician's nonsensical technobabble and reverse the polarity solutions work better than actual science within that particular area of Wyld. oh and all the stereotypical straw vulcans are completely blocky, half-green and use fish as weaponry just because.

the only reason why the Wyld even obeys linear time is because the Primordials modified reality to do that. in its most unmodified state, time wasn't linear at all and you probably had a lot of time-traveling shenanigans taking place. and supposedly before that, there was Time Not, which is only theoretical but explains that in the Wyld raw state know as Time Not- things weren't even separate from each other. not only couldn't you figure out anything because time didn't exist, but neither could you figure out how thing A was different from thing B.

in short, the only reason why the Wyld even seems to make sense, is because it has undergone quite some modification to even be maybe comprehensible. Look I'm a rationalist and a scientist who likes logic and consistency and all that too but…sometimes you just like to imagine what you could do if you didn't have to follow all that. the Wyld is that place.

so don't go try figuring out what is, in the end, a giant trollface surrounding the real world going "trololololololololololololololololol, I don't make sense! U mad?" just enjoy the fact that there is a reality somewhere out there in the Wyld, where the laws consist of "all girls become lesbians and make out. all boys become girls" or "You all gain loyal dinosaur mounts, fight the evil giant mecha with them." or even "everything looks like a 2-d mario game"

There are also an infinite number of lovingly and hatefully crafted personal hells where every possible indignity and perversion waits to be carried out on you by everyone you ever loved until your soul cries out for the void but is not granted that mercy.

[Tavar]

Has it occurred to anyone that the Shinma encode certain fundamentals of logic into the structure of the meaningful Wyld?

Where Nirguna's influence ends things do not exist. There is no Wyld where Nirguna does not hold sway. Therefore, certain statements like "P exists and P does not exist" can never be more then nonsense.

Not entirely true: the Shinma were created from the Wyld, so the Wyld existed before them. How exactly it existed is a good question, but it likely wouldn't be the oddest thing in Creation.

In addition, I don't think Nirguna imposes the separation you're imply it does.

[Exthalion]

Not entirely true: the Shinma were created from the Wyld, so the Wyld existed before them. How exactly it existed is a good question, but it likely wouldn't be the oddest thing in Creation.

In addition, I don't think Nirguna imposes the separation you're imply it does.

Created from is someone difficult in this concept, since it was separation of the distinct elements of Time Not from which the Shinma and the Wyld Emerged. Prior to separation there was no separation between anything including the shinma and what would become the wyld. An equally valid statement is that the Wyld is the dross that remained after the shinma become themselves.

Nirguna isn't the shinma of separation, that would be the Way, or possibly God depending on which edition and angry developer you are quoting. It is just that everything is in the area of the influence of Nirguna. There is no area of the Wyld where Nirguna does not hold sway because outside the influence of Nirguna there is no existence.

What that implies, is that it is not possible for the statements "P exists" and "P does not exist" to both be true because Nirguna prevents that particular duality from occurring by means of the existence which it defines..

[Tavar]

Ah, I think I misunderstood where you were going from that.

Though, not all shinma are created a the same time or same location, which makes things more complicated. Though, given that this is supposed to be a mythology, that makes sense.

[Exthalion]

Ah, I think I misunderstood where you were going from that.

Though, not all shinma are created a the same time or same location, which makes things more complicated. Though, given that this is supposed to be a mythology, that makes sense.

Indeed. When some of the laws of physics are sentient it becomes hard.

[Maugan Ra]

It, of course, doesn't help that:
a) We, as beings with defined and relatively constants forms, and trying to comprehend the Raksha, which are alien to our very concept of what exists and
b) The Raksha aren't even entirely clear on how exactly the Wyld works. Or what came 'before' the Primordials established the concept and existence of linear time.

Hell, in the Exalted universe, if you use magic to declare that the Shinma of non-existence does, in fact, exist (purely by means of logical deduction), the principle reacts by unmaking parts of reality. This being Exalted, someone naturally went and weaponised the paradox.

All in all, the Wyld appears to obey rules, but what exactly those rules are changes from moment to moment. If we can work out the meta-rules that covers how and when things change, then maybe...

[Callista]

"Before the Wyld" makes about as much sense as "before the Big Bang"...

[Exthalion]

"Before the Wyld" makes about as much sense as "before the Big Bang"...

Depending on how things work out, it might make about as much sense as "before" period. There is no Shinma of time, so there could be places in the Wyld that are timeless. Creation might be one of them and the whole of Creation from inception to dissolution is merely a 4d crystal in which all of history exists in an eternal now.

It would annoy the raksha at least.

[tonberrian]

It's important to note that even what is called "Pure" Chaos technically isn't.

The very concept of linear time, the fact that things can come before and after each other? That's not in the Wyld's original design specs. There was a period "before" that, Time Not. The Wyld was defined by Creation. It influences the entirety of the Wyld's infinity. This is part of the reason why some Raksha are pissed off about Creation. Yes, there are a few relatively unmutable laws in the Wyld. It's not enough to make any meaningful predictions about it; it's been tried, and they failed. Any given constraints will be broken, any given experiment unrepeatable, any given prediction broken.

[Exthalion]

It's important to note that even what is called "Pure" Chaos technically isn't.

The very concept of linear time, the fact that things can come before and after each other? That's not in the Wyld's original design specs. There was a period "before" that, Time Not. The Wyld was defined by Creation. It influences the entirety of the Wyld's infinity. This is part of the reason why some Raksha are pissed off about Creation. Yes, there are a few relatively unmutable laws in the Wyld. It's not enough to make any meaningful predictions about it; it's been tried, and they failed. Any given constraints will be broken, any given experiment unrepeatable, any given prediction broken.

Actually certain experiments are repeatable. A solar throwing down CRP will create a region where Creations Laws apply and if they use WST they will get some land that is Creation out of it. This only establishes the primacy of Creation's (or at least the Solars) essence but it means certain concepts like, "WST or CRP do not work here" are also impossible states for the Wyld. Well, that and perfect defenses will always work even if the Grass Cutting Scyth is the attacker.

[meschlum]

Why must I be summoned in so many places at once, and without suitable reality hacks to pull off omnipresence? (hint: it's feasible as a starting level Fair Folk, but then, what isn't?).

To give my take on the preliminary question: it really depends no your ST. Practically speaking, the interaction between the Loom, Creation, and the Wyld is opaque at best.

- Reality Engines (and Wyld Shaping) can create stable pockets of Creation-stuff (or close enough) with no need for the Loom to be involved, as this happens Outside Fate.

- The Loom gets disrupted when Charms and Stunts occur, both of which can create things out of nothingness (without even requiring Emergency Chandeliers, though they have their uses). So a Loom-less environment would be one where wanting things to happen (and, optionally, having Essence to back you up) makes them happen (more easily, anyway).

- The Elemental Poles (except Earth) are out in the Wyld yet not of the Wyld, except they are. Even without a Loom, they're probably safe due to high Essence, so the local Wyld is liable to remain elementally aspected.

- Stable reality pockets (Freeholds, for instance) created by the Raksha do not have gods in them. And work anyway. So it is eminently possible for matters to go on as they have before, given local supervision. It's not like people were using all that space on the map of Creation, anyway. Sending out an appeal for help to the Far Folk (should they exist) would be highly recommended - an exponentially growing transhumanist bubble originating in Creation is liable to have a few members with fond memories of the old world, after all.

- The abence of a Loom does mean that divine memetic infections will become more common (Desus is a great guy, and that's all you need to know anyway), which might inconvenience you. The sapient divinities are going to have to actually work more, and the likely consensus will be that mortals are prayer fuel, period. Thus do the gods become their parents.


So my take on matters is that your situation is fairly dire, but it's possible to recover - especially if you only care about a few million people or so. If you actually want to restore the Loom and fix all of Creation, matters are much more difficult, of course. I have Raksha on the mind, so I'd recommend using them instead of gods as your new processing engine (they can be made utterly loyal and unflaggingly dedicated, by the millions) - that said, you'e going to need to collect Things Of Power and create a lot of refuges on the way (again, Fair Folk are incredibly good at this).


On to the fun things!

The Treatise of Chromatic Dimensionality

Working on the innate knowledge that Up was really Purple in a cheap suit, one of the Fair Folk fell into a pit and was stuck within the cruel barriers of Creation. In an attempt to secure its release, the Raksha wrote a complex and utterly accurate Treatise detailing how some directions could be colors and others most definitely were not (since they were fish, of course).

The work of the Primordials being an insufferable and unresponsive critic, the Treatise was not accepted by the walls or floow of the hole, and the Raksha left it there in disgust, wandering grue-wards out of this tale. The tome itself remained, and while its dialectic often proves confusing to less perceptive Creation-born, its power is undeniable.

Once a prospective owner of the Treatise has begun to peruse it, she soons becomes aware that it must be studied at the purplest point in the land and, to provide contrast, in the lowest site that can be found. Some argue that reading alongside salmon helps, but that's because they are unaware of the uses of anchovies. After its contents have been declaimed, the Treatise will correctly translate an area some four miles on the side (or roughly 3.141526 chair^2/qwerty) so that it may be perceived and interacted with properly.

From the reports of those who emerge from the translated zone before it dissipates, objects sent purplewards simply gain deeper colors until they begin to come down, at which point they simply land. It is entirely feasible for someone who is further purple to pass through those of lighter hue unawares, only noticing the oddity if they glance downwards.

Scolars and savants are advised to be particularly careful about the use of paint in the translated region - mixing reds and blues can have rather drastic consequences in terms of accelertation and red (or blue) shift. From previous observation, the use of the Treatise in a populated area results in roughly half the inhabitants emerging from the translated region, many with their sanity only somewhat fractured. The others are suspected of having gone too far purple, or experimented with prisms, and thus moved in directions which Creation does not currently accomodate.

That things from these other directions might emerge at some point is the official reason for which use of the Treatise is prohibited by the Realm.

4-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the City's Heart - the Treatise will affect quite a wide area.
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - the Treatise exudes scolarship.
Mad God Mien - the Treatise operates on laws that are orthogonal to counter-magic.
Spectral Transformation - beings in the area affected by the Treatise who look purple will understand how it works, gaining the relevant Derangement(s) (by Creation's standards). This insight fades after a few days of being outside the translated zone.
Waypoint Knife - going too far purple requires significant effort. Also, once an area has been translated, the interface between the translated zone and Creation is very hard to get through.
Shiftless Untamed Beauty - figuring out the workings of the Treatise offers chances to understand reality at a far deeper level than the obvious fakery that is Creation.

Mechanically, the Treatise is supported by an Exceptional Territory (from Principle of Worlds), in which up is purple. This is actually harmless, if somewhat disconcerting to those who try to apprehend it without the Treatise's enlightenemt. Using a Chancel or two to support and amplify the effect allows rapid transit to (but rarely from) Pure Chaos and the application of more interesting dimensional definitions.

Also, and this is a case where I actually have to bow to meschlum's expertise should he say something else, but as I understand it raksha are not individuals. They are not people in a meaningful sense of the word. They are basically storms of essence which randomly form and begin following a narrative. Sometimes that narrative devours another storm, and they grow more powerful. Sometimes that narrative takes them too close to creation, and they get a shape imposed on them by the axioms that define creation. But they still blindly follow their narrative, having no real consciousness in them. They don't think, they don't feel, they don't emote, they only "pretend" to do these things if it is narratively appropriate in a strictly mechanistic sense or as a result of the imperatives of outside essence acting on them and altering that narrative through the already established only means of imposing changes on the wyld.

Now, there is an argument to be had on whether or not something can actually pretend to sentience without becoming sentience. I tend to fall on the side of "no." But if I understand correctly, in exalted the answer to that is "yes" and "the raksha pretend sentience without being sentient."

Raksha are individuals - insofar as the most basic ones can be understood to have goals, their purpose in existince is "be different from the rest so I can exist". Which usually manifests as "serve my master / mistress with fanatical dedication, and hope to be rewarded", though you also get "really impress a Creation-born and become defined that way", which tends to make messes.

The Raksha approach to compulsion and stronger narratives is linked to their view of the Cup - their story becomes your story, until all you are is telling theirs. So while it's far easier to deprive a Raksha of free will (attune to its Heart, get it to swear an oath to you and it must follow the spirit as well as the letter...), this does not necessarily deprive it of agency.

The issue of emotion and sentience depends on their Graces. Your view of the Raksha is more or less correct for one that is deep in multiple types of Bedlam. While it's true that many Fair Folk (especially commoners) are little more than their story, they have the potential to go all they way along the emotion / sentience / existence scale - even becoming 'more' so than the Creation-born. One could argue that all the Graces do is layer lies on top of the hollow, nonsentient core, but Graces of the Wyld allows a Raksha to exist and function as though it had Graces without any having Graces at all (barring Heart).

For the record, a high Cup Raksha can, and will, convince Cthulhu to play with kittens and bunnies (even using Creation-born values of 'play').

just enjoy the fact that there is a reality somewhere out there in the Wyld, where the laws consist of "all girls become lesbians and make out. all boys become girls"

Check. 1-dot Oneiromancy if it centers around you, 4-dot to affect entire nations. Use of a 4-dot Adjuration so you can personally participate in all the making out, everywhere, is recommended.

or "You all gain loyal dinosaur mounts, fight the evil giant mecha with them."

Check. Oneiromancy with Subversion and Transformation Artifice, add robot Behemoths to taste. Or just create all of them wholesale in a Chancel and pass them out to the kids.

or even "everything looks like a 2-d mario game"

Check. Principle of Worlds. Oneiromancy conveying suitable Derangements. Fall of Night Shadows the Truth.

[Story Time]

There was a period "before" that, Time Not.

...please repeat after me?

"All shinma are allegorical.

"They are not real things.

"Shinma are an explanation, not an object."

[...]any given prediction broken.

Incidentally this is the reason I ask my Players, "Which makes more sense to you? That the Celestial Maidens can really see the future? Or that they can read the flow of the Loom and extrapolate probable results and consequences from it?"

[Exthalion]

Upon reflection, I think it is possible to reconcile the Loom and Destiny with the Fate as scam nature of the setting.

The Loom is an attempt to impose clockwork order to the Essence of Creation. What it does in essence (no pun intended) is create a form of social contract similar to the one which is stated to be implicit in the Matrix Reloaded. When people live by the rules it lays out certain things will follow. This has become so pervasive that people aren't consciously aware that they can at any time decide to do something different which would throw out ripples of alteration in the variable crunching calculation the Loom does.

The Scam is that the Loom does not actually enforce anything. Those that participate in it all do so voluntarily. This includes the least gods though they are very stupid and so are very dependent and normally obedient to what it says. When someone weaves a destiny what they are doing is sending specific instructions to all participants in Fate that when X happens they should do Y where X is the thing they want done and Y is what is to come of it. Arcane Fate for example is just a pervasive error in the program of the Loom which says that "When you see a Sidereal you will not remember them." The stuff that gets filled into the gaps is handled by the Spiders since there is no generalized set of instructions for what is to go in there. If there were then it might be that everyone who sees a Sidereal would remember them as Bob the sage of five colors with an inordinate fondness for tea and ducks.

The Spiders job is to resolve queries for what is supposed to happen for which no general rules exist. The spiders do not ensure that every time a glass is poured the water comes out. The wrapped fly meditation is a Sidereal being decoupled from the Loom's consideration. They become like the browser addon that isn't updated to the new version so things don't work right for them. This frees up system resources since their personal Fate is no longer hogging up processing power but produces errors because their activities are not accounted for either.

When non extras do things like spend essence or stunting what they are really doing is violating the implicit contract of the Loom. They are imposing what they want on the world according to the personal causality they are forming. This is bad for the Loom because it essentially amounts to running a separate OS on the same architecture which it has to work extra hard to insure the proper inputs and outputs for.

The reason the First Age Solars were so dangerous to it is not that they were throwing around huge amounts of essence, it is that they were doing things that were not in the standard protocols for the Loom. When they tried to accelerate something to infinite speed by putting a Gate of Auspicious Passage under its own exit the thing really did start going obscenely fast. The equations the Loom was running however contained things like asymptotes about that sort of thing and so it caused it to have to devote significant resources to insure that the expected orders were being issued to the beings involved. This meant that it could not focus on other things in the area which created errors which the Sidereals had to fix.

Fate errors then are simply what happens when the Loom starts lagging the the flow of instructions to least gods is slowed down or corrupted.

Does any of this make sense?

[Rikandur Azebol]

Horrifying as it sounds, it makes sense.

[Callista]

One thing I hadn't mentioned yet is that my character is an Abyssal... I've never played one before, and I'm a little bit unsure about how to handle this. Personality-wise, he is very honorable, but also totally convinced that the world is doomed to annihilation, and believes that the best he can do is to basically mercy-kill everything before the more sadistic deathknights get their hands on it. He is still loyal to his deathlord (a custom one whom I know very little about), with the motivation of "Serve my master honorably"--problematic, since neither the Neverborn nor the deathlord in question are exactly honorable; necessary since honor is the only thing that's left when you take away everything else worthwhile about life (cf. backstory). While my character's not horrified at the destruction we've caused, he's quite unsettled by the fact that he knows he should be horrified, and isn't. The Whispers he's hearing currently sound like a very creepy celebratory party, which unsettles him even more. If it matters, he's Dusk caste with Temperance primary, focusing on martial arts and minor necromancy, and has been an Abyssal for less than a month.

So what's the Abyssal take on this? Grab as much territory as you can before the Fey get it? Create as many shadowlands as you can while everybody else is distracted? What's easier to annihilate--orderly Creation, or chaotic mess? I'm aware of course that his nature won't allow him to support life; but the underworld is very much into predictable stasis. By the way, would a run of the mill Abyssal with a couple points in Lore, three Occult, Whispers three and a crash course in Evil 101 from his deathlord know enough about the Underworld to know that it has its own Loom?

[Amechra]

Obviously, the answer is to get kudos from your superiors, and to then sneakily help fix things.

Because a stable creation is easier to destroy all of, obviously.

[Callista]

Obviously, the answer is to get kudos from your superiors, and to then sneakily help fix things.

Because a stable creation is easier to destroy all of, obviously.

I like that angle. It's kind of like, if you want to knock down a bunch of dominos, they have to be set up very carefully; just any random chaotic arrangement won't do. Is there anything in-canon that supports that Creation is easier to destroy if it's orderly? Isn't there bad blood between the Neverborn (or the Primordials in general) and the Wyld, to begin with?

What's Joe Average Deathlord going to think about this? Obviously the Neverborn seem to be happy about it, but if partial destruction paradoxically makes total destruction even harder...

[Teln]

By the way, would a run of the mill Abyssal with a couple points in Lore, three Occult, Whispers three and a crash course in Evil 101 from his deathlord know enough about the Underworld to know that it has its own Loom?

Yeah, it should be. The Calendar of Setesh is kind of a big deal in the Underworld, since among other things it keeps the day/night cycle and the turning of the seasons going, and it hangs in the sky about where Mount Meru's peak is in Creation.

[Amechra]

Well, logically, it is easier to know that you got the whole thing if Creation is orderly.

And it's always good to be thorough, because you don't know which parts are going to scrape by your gaze undetected...

[Rockphed]

I like that angle. It's kind of like, if you want to knock down a bunch of dominos, they have to be set up very carefully; just any random chaotic arrangement won't do. Is there anything in-canon that supports that Creation is easier to destroy if it's orderly? Isn't there bad blood between the Neverborn (or the Primordials in general) and the Wyld, to begin with?

What's Joe Average Deathlord going to think about this? Obviously the Neverborn seem to be happy about it, but if partial destruction paradoxically makes total destruction even harder...

The death lords are either going to be annoyed, starting a conquest, or happy about it, depending on how much they think they can enforce order on their conquests and how much their actual goals are in line with their masters'. Faffles will, of course, be engaging in a massive conquest of something.

[Xefas]

No beating around the bush for me. I'm gonna come out and say that I think the last 3-4 days of outage were all a consequence of y'all's lack of faith in the Yozi.

[Exthalion]

I thought we had another Time of Cascading Years.

[Kobold-Bard]

No beating around the bush for me. I'm gonna come out and say that I think the last 3-4 days of outage were all a consequence of y'all's lack of faith in the Yozi.

I personally blame those yahoos who blew up the Loom of Fate. The little gods who run our usernames all went on strike so they had to turn off the forums while they got put back in their place.

[Qwertystop]

I personally blame those yahoos who blew up the Loom of Fate. The little gods who run our usernames all went on strike so they had to turn off the forums while they got put back in their place.

Actually, that is sort of fitting.

Someone else do it in their own game and see if it happens again![/SCIENCE!]

[Lix Lorn]

No beating around the bush for me. I'm gonna come out and say that I think the last 3-4 days of outage were all a consequence of y'all's lack of faith in the Yozi.

If y'all trusted Lord Malfeas and His Sun, this wouldn't be happening.