The Legend of Korra IV: This Thread Has the Admiral Zhao Seal of Approval

[John Cribati]

This is a thread for the discussion of The Legend of Korra, where the eponymous heroine is the spiritual reincarnation of the Avatar, a being with the ability to control, or bend, four elements, and will bring balance to the world.

Previously on the Legend of Korra:

Fans complain about Mako, Bolin gets no love, and A. Firebender is still at large.

Also, Korra's going into the spirit world for some reason.

Now let's start this thread off by breaking everyone's heart:




Other Fan works of interest:

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Seal of Approval: One, Two
I can bend!

Previous threads:

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1. Legend of Korra: Will it Bend!
2. Legend of Korra II: Brought to you by Flameo Instant Noodles!
3. Legend of Korra III: In Hono(u)r of the Victims of A. Firebender.

[Pokonic]

Annnd, that gif make's me very...sniffly.

[thubby]

i just thought of something.
it's theoretically possible for an avatar to be the child of another avatar. bet that would be an interesting story.

[Anarion]

Ooh new Korra thread. I sort of dropped out of the last one after the season finale.

i just thought of something.
it's theoretically possible for an avatar to be the child of another avatar. bet that would be an interesting story.

This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

[thubby]

Ooh new Korra thread. I sort of dropped out of the last one after the season finale.



This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

assuming its a matter of a single parent, not knowing they are the child of the avatar would mean not being told about their father basically at all and then finding out about it potentially from the previous avatar himself. which has potential.
(im going to assume the avatar would be male because the whole pregnancy/death thing is less finicky)

or they'd know all along and have this great legacy to live up to before they found out and there's a whole mess of potential stories and...
*runs off to write fanfiction*

[John Cribati]

I like the idea of them knowing that they're the son/daughter of the previous Avatar early on, just not that they're the current Avatar.

[INoKnowNames]

This would make a pretty interesting story, actually.....

Though I'm still trying to catch up to the real one, but I'm still having trouble finding it online... when am I supposed to be catching Korra on Tv (assuming I can find my remote somewhere)?

[oblivion6]

This would make a pretty interesting story, actually.....

Though I'm still trying to catch up to the real one, but I'm still having trouble finding it online... when am I supposed to be catching Korra on Tv (assuming I can find my remote somewhere)?

not entirely sure. i know my cable company has the last few on-demand but not sure when it will be on nick again

[lord_khaine]

This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

[John Cribati]

No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

This would mean that the avatar spirit knows when its current host will die. There's no proof of that at all.

[t209]

I wonder when will second season come out?
I read that the first season was meant to be a mini series.

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Which could be a reason why it ended so early (Amon and Tarrlock's death and Korra regains her power.

P.S- Was it me or I find Korra hotter than asami.

[Ashen Lilies]

No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

Sperm can survive for up to 6 days inside the womb before coming across an egg.

Which is irrelevant anyway, since "The Avatar and the Firelord" seems to imply that Aang was born at the very instant that Roku died, meaning that the Avatar Spirit seems to pass on to a new vessel at birth, rather than conception.

[endoperez]

I like the idea of them knowing that they're the son/daughter of the previous Avatar early on, just not that they're the current Avatar.

Furthermore, a water tribe Avatar can learn to bend fire before water, and an air nomad avatar can have a water tribe child.

So, in theory, the child of the old (say, earth nation) Avatar could learn earthbending first, and not realize he's the new fire nation avatar. Recognizing the avatar includes tests like checking if the child prefers the old incarnation's toys, and the earth nation avatar might have given his or her favourite toys to the child already...

Yeah, it could get pretty complicated.

[lord_khaine]

This would mean that the avatar spirit knows when its current host will die. There's no proof of that at all.

No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

What you are talking about i have no idea....

Sperm can survive for up to 6 days inside the womb before coming across an egg.

Which is irrelevant anyway, since "The Avatar and the Firelord" seems to imply that Aang was born at the very instant that Roku died, meaning that the Avatar Spirit seems to pass on to a new vessel at birth, rather than conception.

Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

[Dr.Epic]

Now let's start this thread off by breaking everyone's heart:

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So you're saying Mako's got some competition?

[Grey Watcher]

No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

What you are talking about i have no idea....



Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

[thubby]

Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

and? that's not an unreasonable way for their... would that be cosmology? to work.

[John Cribati]

No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:

1. The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
2. The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.

By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

[Kd7sov]

Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

As a matter of fact, I'd hold that we have evidence (though not proof) to the contrary: Sokka appears to have experienced the biological processes of about twenty-four hours when he was kidnapped to the Spirit World for a day just before the winter solstice.

[Randomguy]

I wonder when will second season come out?

Sometime in 2013.

Does anyone think that Katara might die sometime during the series? The "mentor" character often gets killed off somehow, and it might happen because of old age, which might be allowed in a kids show.

[Anarion]

It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

I have to agree with this one. I can't speak to when the baby's spirit is formed in the Avatar cosmology, but this visual scene strongly implies that the Avatar spirit passes on when the child is born.

I also note that if the Avatar spirit does not transfer instantly and has to spend time somewhere else while it's looking for a new host, that would potentially be a period of significant vulnerability for the entire Avatar cycel.

Sometime in 2013.

Does anyone think that Katara might die sometime during the series? The "mentor" character often gets killed off somehow, and it might happen because of old age, which might be allowed in a kids show.

No not really. She hasn't been mentoring Korra directly and she's very popular as a character. She could die of old age at some point, but since she's not even with Korra the whole time it would require the additional coincidence of Korra and Katara being in the same place when Katara took a turn for the worse.

[Rockphed]

Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:

1. The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
2. The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.

By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

Well, it could, theoretically, take up to 9 months to find a suitable kid. Maybe more if it determined that all the kids currently in the womb were unsuitable. It might even end up doing the whole matchmaker thing just to get a suitable kid conceived. Now isn't that an interesting story idea.

Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

Personally, I figured there are 8 of them (a male and female of each element), but then we saw something like 20 of them at the end of the last Korra episode, so my theory gets nuked that way.

And that comic detailing Korra's father's reaction to his daughter being a firebender is hilarious.

[lord_khaine]

It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

I cant see that implication, when one scene fades into another like that, then we cant know how much time there actualy pass, especaly since the guy suposed to do the noticing is dead.

and? that's not an unreasonable way for their... would that be cosmology? to work.

Actualy it is...

Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:

1: The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
2: The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.


By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

You missed option 3, that the AS, after dying, goes though the normal motions of a dying spirit, and then jumps over to the "Inn-tray" for spirit about to enter the world the normal way.

Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

No, its all the same guy, they are clearly stated to be past lifes of Aang in tLA, and thats how past lifes work, its the same spirit/soul getting reincarnated again and again.

[VanBuren]

Actualy it is...

...not.

Seriously though, you're going to have to elaborate if this part of the argument is going to go anywhere. You're claiming that the cosmology doesn't make sense if the soul is "created/inserted/manifested/etc" at birth instead of conception.

Why not?

No, its all the same guy, they are clearly stated to be past lifes of Aang in tLA, and thats how past lifes work, its the same spirit/soul getting reincarnated again and again.

^This.

It's a bit tricky, especially from a western perspective. But my understanding is that, in terms of the eastern spirituality it's drawing from, there is one "soul" being reincarnated, and that each Avatar is simply a different expression of that same soul (Aang and Korra have the same soul, but are not the same people) and that the Avatar State is notably powerful because it summons all those incarnations past and present into being at a single moment in time.

[Rockphed]

Is being the avatar something that is added on top of a normal soul or is it something inherent in a constantly reincarnated soul? We know that all avatars share something, but do not know what that something is. I'm pretty sure several characters, who might or might not have had any confirmation from a past avatar life, assume it is the second option, but we don't know.

And what is wrong with souls getting assigned a body as the body is born? While my personal cosmology doesn't work quite that way, it is a fairly valid cosmological choice. So is just about any moment from conception until passing the trials of manhood. Well, setting the moment of soul endowment too long after birth can raise problems. If it is a ritual, it opens the way for all sorts of changelings.

[Morty]

We might actually get some answers about that in the next season, since the writers mentioned something about it exploring the origins of the avatar cycle, I think.
Of course, given the first season's track record of including the things it was supposed to, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

[Grey Watcher]

I cant see that implication, when one scene fades into another like that, then we cant know how much time there actualy pass, especaly since the guy suposed to do the noticing is dead.

...

Well, it is only an implication, not a hard statement, like if there happened to be a calendar in view both on that volcano and in the delivery room. It may be that Aang was the Avatar from the very instant he was conceived, and we (the viewers) skipped over nine months of darkness and muffled noises because it would be boring and fail to illustrate the point. But usually Roku narrates us over skipped time, so that might imply that it really happened the way we see it. Given the nature of the show, I doubt the question of when a person gets a soul is going to be resolved by anything other than Word of God. And even then, they might not want to answer due to... reasons.

[thubby]

Actualy it is...

...because?
setting aside their are real world traditions that hold the soul enters the body with the first breath/at birth/at some period after physical existence. why?

[Xondoure]

...because?
setting aside their are real world traditions that hold the soul enters the body with the first breath/at birth/at some period after physical existence. why?

Not to mention we go from Roku's death to Aang's first cry. It's sort of implied that the two events happened in instantaneous succession, but there could well have been some time in between that there is simply no Avatar memory of.

[dehro]

no, I don't like the idea at all..
think about it.. the woman's child would be the man she bedded to conceive him.. talk about embarassing and yukky...inbreeding much?

that point aside, I don't think it's the spirit of the things. right from the get go, the Avatar is all about balance, which is why he reincarnates in a fixed pattern, so that each nation has their go at having an avatar.
2 avatars in the same bloodline? maybe... (edit: come to think of it, it's a must..the next airbender will have to be related to the previous one)
2 avatars that are directly related? hell no, it may be physically possible but I don't klike it, it would be a strong strike to balance, whichever way you look at it.
that said, if they went for it, we'd have possibly an interesting plot..but it would still be a side-plot/personal issue for the main character..on the background of the main event which would necessarily be of a social/planetary/war-and peace variety.. so.. I'd have to wonder how well they'd manage a sideplot of such magnitude, given their recent... disappointing results with sidestories in Korra.