Dresden Files: Winter is coming (Cold Days Spoilers)

[Soras Teva Gee]

Oh there are explanations there to be made. The easiest is just that Fidelacchius is not a true katana in forging and sturcture but rather just mimics the shape. Its unbreakable anyways. Or "reforging" meant making a physically new sword with the old nail in it. Or a damn angel made a damn miracle happen that changed the internal composition of the swords material structure. At any rate as I'm sure this board has discussed before one cannot remake a european sword into a katana because its the result of a specific process, its rather like making tea into coffee.

And that still leaves that Kusanagi's myth not gelling all that well with the timeline's involved. Yamato Takeru is nominally born in 72 AD, that alone puts a pretty short span of time for things to come together even aside from that not being earliest instance of Kusanagi. Can't exactly have nail put in the Body of Christ from Before Christ now can we? Also not sure if European broad swords are that old/big for that sort of timeline, but Amoracchius is allegedly in original form. Its all kinda snarled there.

The point is I suspect this is less Jim has a convoluted explanation for it all... and just did latched onto the most famous sword from Japan and made assumptions. Fidelacchius did get introduced in the same book as the vast empty parking lot around Wrigley Field afterall.

Or simply figured most of his readers would not appreciate a reference to the Honjo Masamune or Yawarakai-Te.

It irks me because if you are going to invoke myths playing too fast and loose ends up cheapening the very myth you are using to give things literary weight.

[Connington]

Maybe the angels cut a deal with whoever owned the pre-Christian Kusanagi?

[The Glyphstone]

The sword could have existed prior to the Nail being embedded in it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Maybe the angels cut a deal with whoever owned the pre-Christian Kusanagi?

The sword could have existed prior to the Nail being embedded in it.

Those explanations can scan from a basic raw fact perspective, but given the weight symbolism is given in the Dresdenverse and the swords in particular... you see the problem with the mixing of mythos here? And the swords are extra symbolic.

And its needing such extra explanations that are really the problem anyways. Needing a more convoluted history is why I say this part of the mythos just isn't all that well thought out.

[Gryffon]

The myths about Kusanagi originate from the late 7th to early 8th century AD.

It also has a mythical accounting, and a historical account starting in around 688. So, the sword in the book, could be the legendary historical sword. And not the mythical sword used by Susanoo.

The "actual" Kusanagi isn't even a katana.

[123456789blaaa]

Am procrastinating on a reply to you Soras. Sorry about that.

In the meantime I think I'll drop this off:

How can Kusanagi be a Sword of the Cross when it predates the crucifixion?
Because the Swords are ideas and symbols as much as they are physical objects–maybe even more so. Kusanagi isn’t the original Kusanagi, Exaclibur isn’t the original Excalibur, etc. But their title, their /idea/ has been passed down from one generation to the next, much as the names of warships are passed down to the next generation of ships, with the new ship inheriting the titles, victories, and traditions of its forbears. The nails are passed on from one sword to the next, bringing bits of the metal of each sword that came before.

Also, Glyphstone, what do you think of Simon=Cowl from my previous posts?

EDIT: Also, about the Fallen influence:

What’s the range of influence for the Fallen in the coins? How far can they extend themselves away from their Denarian hosts?
Oh, their range is very, very limited, to this one little planet.

I would advise people to be cautious when interpreting this WoJ. Jim can be very very tricky in his WoJ's sometimes.

[The Glyphstone]

\
Also, Glyphstone, what do you think of Simon=Cowl from my previous posts?

It makes sense from a certain point of view. Therefore, it must be wrong, because Jim is anything but predictable.

[123456789blaaa]

from a certain point of view.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ainPointOfView

[Soras Teva Gee]

The myths about Kusanagi originate from the late 7th to early 8th century AD.

Meaning when it was written down of course. Pretty much anything people are familiar with about Arthur (Excalibur not Caledfwch) is only put together centuries after it (didn't) occur.

Am procrastinating on a reply to you Soras. Sorry about that.

In the meantime I think I'll drop this off:

Is no matter.

Now that's yeah... I'll call it a cop out but one I can nominally live with since I half expected it. Where you get that from, generally when copypasta'ing a link is a good idea so people can investigate the source.

[123456789blaaa]

<snip>
Is no matter.

Now that's yeah... I'll call it a cop out but one I can nominally live with since I half expected it. Where you get that from, generally when copypasta'ing a link is a good idea so people can investigate the source.

I get every single WoJ I ever posted from this section of the DF forums (Most are from the DF WoJ Compilation -Transcription help requested [SPOILERS] subsection at the very top). I also get WoJ-esque info from the RPG books.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I get every single WoJ I ever posted from this section of the DF forums (Most are from the DF WoJ Compilation -Transcription help requested [SPOILERS] subsection at the very top). I also get WoJ-esque info from the RPG books.

Hmm yeah now I see, the link doesn't help that much does it? I'll get around to joining that forum one day.

[123456789blaaa]

Hmm yeah now I see, the link doesn't help that much does it? I'll get around to joining that forum one day.

Are you not able to view that section without joining? My memory is fuzzy on my pre-DF forum member days.

Also, did anyone else notice that HWWB4's arm crossing block move in Mac's bar is VERY similar to Vittorio's arm crossing block move in WN? It's probably not important but I think it's a cool little find (request: can we please put [CD Spoilers] in the title of the thread?).

[The Glyphstone]

Well, we knew Vittorio was being possessed by an Outsider, I guess we know which one now.

[Mauve Shirt]

Glyph, your modliness, it's up to you to put "Cold Days Spoilers" in the thread title.

Yeah, Count, you have to be a member to see that forum. Luckily, you don't have to pay, or even post. You just have to make a name and password and tell your browser to save it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well, we knew Vittorio was being possessed by an Outsider, I guess we know which one now.

This does seem fairly likely come to think of it.

They never named the Outsider in that book did they?

[GenericMook]

Nope, they didn't. Plus, Harry comments that the psychic assault from He Who Walks Before was (I'm reiterating from memory here) exactly like the one in the Raith Deeps.

It's too close to be a coincidence, and with Jim, that almost always confirms things.

[Mauve Shirt]

Harry's been assaulted by Outsiders twice in the Raith Deeps, one must recall. Once in Blood Rites by HWWBH, and once in White Night by Maybe HWWB4.

[GenericMook]

I don't recall if the incident in Blood Rites involved psychic assaults from HWWBH, but I'm pretty sure that Harry's referencing the incident in White Night.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm pretty sure Blood Rites did not involve one and if there was and Harry would probably have noted it since we know that Outsider.

[GenericMook]

Yeah, Blood Rites didn't involve a psychic assault. HWWBH just pops up for a bit.

[Drolyt]

Yeah, Blood Rites didn't involve a psychic assault. HWWBH just pops up for a bit.

He also powered the ritual that killed all those people. Still is probably not what Harry meant. Also, at that point Harry still refers to HWWBH as a demon, I'm not sure he knew about outsiders yet.

[Tavar]

Reading through some of the previous books(having 7-8 hour shifts with long lull times is good for reading if nothing else) I was wondering if the two minor mysteries at the end of that book were solved: who smashed up Harry's car at the start, and who fixed Little Chicago?

[Soras Teva Gee]

The car I don't recall ever being explained.

Fixing Little Chicago I think we can infer was a bit of Divine Intervention for Michael/Charity/Molly's sake. Thus either Uriel, another such agent, or Big G directly.

[GenericMook]

The fact that Little Chicago was fixed is one of those unanswered mysteries that each of the books have. Currently, the best guesses point to Mab, or someone on that level. I wouldn't be surprised if Uriel fixed it, but we'd have to find some way that the scales were tipped in order to justify that.

It'll probably be answered in another book, methinks. There's usually one or two unanswered questions in each book, and some of them, like the Hexenwulf belt mystery, have already apparently been answered.

[lord_khaine]

Reading through some of the previous books(having 7-8 hour shifts with long lull times is good for reading if nothing else) I was wondering if the two minor mysteries at the end of that book were solved: who smashed up Harry's car at the start, and who fixed Little Chicago?

What book are you talking about?

because if its back when it was trashed by a baseball bat, then it was done by that ex-denarian snake guy.

[Mauve Shirt]

Who rammed the Blue Beetle off the road in Proven Guilty?

[Tavar]

Blarg, that's what I get posting really quickly between classes. Yeah, the one in Proven Guilty, that happens at the very start.

[Lamech]

Reading through some of the previous books(having 7-8 hour shifts with long lull times is good for reading if nothing else) I was wondering if the two minor mysteries at the end of that book were solved: who smashed up Harry's car at the start, and who fixed Little Chicago?

Causius (sp?) the ex-Denarian snake sorcerer smashed up the car. (Probably.) Just like Harry smashed up his legs earlier. It was never confirmed explicitly, but he is the one who would send a message like that. It could have been a local vandal, or someone sending Harry an obtuse warning, but snakeman seems like the main suspect.

Edit: That's what I get for posting really quickly before reading the rest of the posts.

[Anderlith]

Angels can travel whatever distance they feel like as fast as they want to.
Say Christ dies around 30-40ish AD The angels collect the nails, forge swords & then give them to people in the West, East, & in between. The three Knights of the Cross then go about gathering the 30 silver denari. This is plenty of time for the Kusanagi to be wielded & gain reknown. Also the swords gain their power from the Nail, if you were to remove the Nail then the sword would just be a sword. Thus even if the real Kusanagi wasn't a katana in a cane, it could still end up that way if the Nail giving it it's power were to be placed into a new sword.

[GenericMook]

Also the swords gain their power from the Nail, if you were to remove the Nail then the sword would just be a sword. Thus even if the real Kusanagi wasn't a katana in a cane, it could still end up that way if the Nail giving it it's power were to be placed into a new sword.

Not necessarily true. You have to remember that faith gives a sort of power to objects. Dresden points out that it doesn't matter whether or not the Shroud of Turin is real, the fact that people believe in it makes it a powerful object. The Swords are powerful symbols in their own right. I'd say that the Nails take that power and turn it up to eleven. Famous swords put together with sacred relics are going to result in some of the most powerful faith-driven weapons around.