She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[Kellus]

Interesting!

For Submerging Engines, can we get some sort of approximate conversion rate for HP to volume of fluid blood? With the help of Black Filter anesthetic and a bunch of magical healing, you could fuel the engine without actually killing anything.

Unfortunately, no. Having more hit points doesn't actually mean that you have more blood in you (in fact, it's not super clear what it means, but that's a whole other story). A 20th level character has roughly the same volume of blood in his body as a 1st level character. Bleeding has never really been covered by the rules in a volumetric fashion, so I'd suggest going by the adage that a person can stand to lose 1 gallon of blood before they pass out. Any more than that and it could get really dangerous.

If anything, I'd apply some sort of temporary Constitution or Strength damage from bloodletting, but I don't think the rules are consistent enough to make it a hard and fast rule.

Also, when an EI uses Abnormal Behavior to produce another EI, does it use their Intelligence or that of the Gramarist at the time of preparing Abnormal Behavior? A level 12 EI that took increases to Int could make an EI that starts out smarter than they did.

Okay, here's where Abnormal Behaviour gets interesting. When it's triggered, it's the original gramarist who actually prepared it, it's just activating later. Thus, it would use the mental statistics of the gramarist who prepared the AB. On the other hand, if an EI took levels in gramarist and then created another EI, it would use the mental statistics of the first EI, which by this point could've increased beyond their original parameters.

I mean, there isn't one for Geo-Engineering, at the very least (it's large scale Landscape Architecture; basically, it would all be climate/weather control, turning deserts into rainforests and the like.)

That's a really cool idea! There are for sure other disciplines I'd like to look into after getting the basic system finished, but I wanted to get the essentials done first. Still, that's a super awesome idea. I'd be happy to help with something like that, too, if you like.

[General Patton]

If any of you have experience with thermodynamics would you mind doing some calculations? I've forgotten the exact mathematics involved.

You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?

[Quester]

I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.

As the temperature decreases further physiological systems falter and heart rate, respiratory rate, and blood pressure all decreases. This results in an expected HR in the 30s with a temperature of 28 °C (82 °F).

Difficulty in speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia start to appear; inability to use hands and stumbling is also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down. Below 30 °C (86 °F), the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination becomes very poor, walking becomes almost impossible, and the person exhibits incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and respiration rates decrease significantly, but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death.

On a lighter note there are also some interesting culinary applications, a perfect even through and through roast as well as flash freezing and instant thawing.

As is my nature time for a question completely out of left field question, can you grow handicap graphs on a chassis?

[Hellwyrm]

I posted these questions before and I think they might have been missed, so here they are again!
1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?
2. Also with the same principle, with Alkahest is there a limit to the volume of metal that can be dissolved in some volume of Alkahest? With one cubic foot of alkahest could I cumatively create infinite effective alkahest, because it specifies that the dissolved metal is added to the volume of the Alkahest solution? Would adding a limit to the volume of non-Alkahest metal that can be dissolved in an Alkahest solution based on the volume of the pure Alkahest solution work?
3. In ELDK 355, with the lightning leap ability, the wording does not specify what is the end of a leap, so how far can you travel with one leap? Is it based of the speed due to the Push of the Engine and Bulk of the cargo?
4. When transforming planetary metals using ALCH 286, does the transformed amount key of the volume of the metals, or the weight of the initial and final metals? For example if I had 1 cubic foot of tin, would it create 1 cubic foot of gold? Or would it create a ¼ a cubic foot of gold? Additionally if a had a cubic foot of gold and turned it into tin, would it produce 1 cubic foot of tin, or would it create 4 cubic feet of tin?
5. Also with polarcane flux in YGGD 212, with the gravity and magnetic fields created, is there some kind of interaction with the effect of the gravity or magnetic field with the Push created by engines, and so can we use them to push objects somehow?
6. Does increasing the size of input bubble for an arcanodynamic transformer with ARCD 101 increase the number of Ebbs it can absorb? For example, if I have a gold arcanodynamic transformer, with a typical 5ft bubble input, then it can absorb a maximum of 3 Ebb per round, with full daylight in one square. If I then increase the input bubble size to 10ft (which has up to 8 squares included in the input), does that mean the gold transformer will then absorb a maximum of 24 Ebb per round (assuming the UMD check was high enough)?
/Super Nitpick Mode Engaged/ In IMCH 101, when talking about mimicry, you mean “Kenku” not “Kenky” /Mode Disabled/
Hope this feedback is of some use!
EDIT: Sounded unnecessarily terse, thats what I get for posting to early.

[radmelon]

I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.

The description for red filters explicitly notes that it does not do this.

[Quester]

Red: A red filter excludes heat. Changes in temperature or external sources of hot or cold do not pass through the filter or have any effect on the temperature of the other side. Any physical objects or creatures which move through a red filter which are warmer than the ambient temperature on the other side have their internal temperature reduced to match the temperature on the other side of the filter. A red filter is vulnerable to extremely low temperatures. If it absorbs a total amount of cold damage equal to the Spot check, it collapses.

Where does it say this?

[radmelon]

Huh, I could have sworn it said something to that effect. It says it for orange, green, and indigo filters, so I assumed that it was the same for red. My bad.

[Kellus]

Sorry, didn't mean to miss your questions!

Question's reposted as not answered:
1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?

Ahaha, yeah, I guess the dimensionality on that is a little silly. The bead terminology is based off of an old Indiana Jones computer game. If the dimensions are a little off, that's okay, that's just how orichalcum works.

2. Also with the same principle, with Alkahest is there a limit to the volume of metal that can be dissolved in some volume of Alkahest? With one cubic foot of alkahest could I cumatively create infinite effective alkahest, because it specifies that the dissolved metal is added to the volume of the Alkahest solution? Would adding a limit to the volume of non-Alkahest metal that can be dissolved in an Alkahest solution based on the volume of the pure Alkahest solution work?

No, the idea is that when you dissolve metal in it you end up with more dissolving solution, so in theory it could keep spreading and dissolve massive amounts of metal over a long period of time. Totally intentional, and it gets more awesome even worse with the Amazing Alkahest discovery by a contractor.

3. In ELDK 355, with the lightning leap ability, the wording does not specify what is the end of a leap, so how far can you travel with one leap? Is it based of the speed due to the Push of the Engine and Bulk of the cargo?

The Push always determines what speed is imparted to the vehicle on the round. The squares that it moves through with this speed are affected by the lightning effect as it transforms into a bolt of electricity. This is why it specifies a Push result in the first place.

4. When transforming planetary metals using ALCH 286, does the transformed amount key of the volume of the metals, or the weight of the initial and final metals? For example if I had 1 cubic foot of tin, would it create 1 cubic foot of gold? Or would it create a ¼ a cubic foot of gold? Additionally if a had a cubic foot of gold and turned it into tin, would it produce 1 cubic foot of tin, or would it create 4 cubic feet of tin?

Volume is preserved, but that's a very good point. I'll specify that in the original write-up.

5. Also with polarcane flux in YGGD 212, with the gravity and magnetic fields created, is there some kind of interaction with the effect of the gravity or magnetic field with the Push created by engines, and so can we use them to push objects somehow?

Yes! Simple orthogonal, ascending, and descending engines are all keyed based off of the direction of gravity relative to the engine. When you change the direction of gravity, that also changes the direction that those engines generate Push in. There's always more than one way to do something in gramarie.

6. Does increasing the size of input bubble for an arcanodynamic transformer with ARCD 101 increase the number of Ebbs it can absorb? For example, if I have a gold arcanodynamic transformer, with a typical 5ft bubble input, then it can absorb a maximum of 3 Ebb per round, with full daylight in one square. If I then increase the input bubble size to 10ft (which has up to 8 squares included in the input), does that mean the gold transformer will then absorb a maximum of 24 Ebb per round (assuming the UMD check was high enough)?

No. It increases the size of the net, but not the number of ebbs that it can process in a given round.

/Super Nitpick Mode Engaged/ In IMCH 101, when talking about mimicry, you mean “Kenku” not “Kenky” /Mode Disabled/
Hope this feedback is of some use!

Very useful, thank you! Good typo catch, I'll fix that right up. Thanks for the insightful questions!

I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.

Yes, they are very dangerous! Remember that in D&D low and high temperatures aren't as dangerous as in real life, but they can still be very hazardous. The appropriate rules section is extreme climate conditions.

I like culinary applications, too.

As is my nature time for a question completely out of left field question, can you grow handicap graphs on a chassis?

A handicap graft is a 0th level graft, and you have one free 0th level graft slot on every chassis (usually for disguises and aesthetics). You're also allowed to put lower level grafts in higher level slots if you want to, so if you want more handicap grafts for some reason you could use on of the 1st-4th level slots.

You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?

Really interesting question! Red filters are really weird because they somehow filter out heat while allowing the passage of everything that normally causes heat (ie, agitated molecules). The easiest explanation for this paradox is that in D&D land, heat is an actual thing that can exist on its own. This is actually really well backed up by the rules, because otherwise a wall of fire or a fireball makes absolutely no sense. Fire is an element in D&D, and is an actual thing that you can create and move around without having to be formed or controlled in the same way as normal heat. Carnot was correct, the caloric theory is actually how the universe works, and heat is just a substance that can be tossed around.

Under this interpretation, the red box makes perfect sense. Air moves out as it heats up, and the heat remains inside the box until it reaches equilibrium at the point when it's the same temperature as the source. For most flames, that's somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 degrees Centigrade. So you end up, absurdly, with a very hot vacuum.

[Kellus]

Hang on, sorry, I just doublechecked that:

1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?

If 1,340 lb of orichalcum stores 100 ebbs, then 1 ebb is stored in 13.4 lb, not 134 lb. Thought that seemed a little off.

[Hellwyrm]

Ah ok that makes more sense. Thanks.

The Push always determines what speed is imparted to the vehicle on the round. The squares that it moves through with this speed are affected by the lightning effect as it transforms into a bolt of electricity. This is why it specifies a Push result in the first place.

Yes, but I haven't seen anything about the time spent in the lightning leap or the distance traveled in it. It does provide the Push, and so in turn the speed of the object is given. However does one leap last for one round? Or a minute?

[Kellus]

Ah ok that makes more sense. Thanks.

Yes, but I haven't seen anything about the time spent in the lightning leap or the distance traveled in it. It does provide the Push, and so in turn the speed of the object is given. However does one leap last for one round? Or a minute?

Every jump is a single movement that the engine and its cargo takes. When you punch it, you transform into a bolt of lightning. The Push generated tells you the speed that you get based on the Bulk of the thing:

Lightningleap: A lightningleap engine uses electricity as a fuel source and is made out of solid mercury. It requires 10 volts of electric potential for every leap it makes. Every leap provides the equivalent of 200 points of Push in any direction, as the engine and whatever it is attached to transforms into a bolt of lightning. The vehicle reconstitutes into its original form at the other side of the leap. It also deals electricity damage to everything it passes through during the leap (10d6 damage with a Reflex save for half damage, against a DC equal to the Concentration check of the engine). A lightningleap engine can also be activated for a single leap with 10 ebbs of puissance.

So for example if you would have gotten a speed of 90ft. based on the amount of Push, you teleport 90ft. in any direction, and every square between your starting square and ending square is struck by lightning.

[radmelon]

So, rather than giving a steady push over a series of rounds, the lightningleap engine works in a series of jumps each 6 seconds apart.

[Quester]

Huh, I could have sworn it said something to that effect. It says it for orange, green, and indigo filters, so I assumed that it was the same for red. My bad.

That's ok, I was working on the same assumption until I reread it just now for General Patton's enclosed space question

Yes, they are very dangerous! Remember that in D&D low and high temperatures aren't as dangerous as in real life, but they can still be very hazardous. The appropriate rules section is extreme climate conditions.

I'm sorry but I think red filters present a unique situation. There are only rules for a person of normal body temp being exposed to cold for long periods of time, not for having their body temperature removed. One pass through a red filter in room temp is the equivalent of hours spent freezing in weather. Also having your body temperature reduced to, say, -10 degrees Celsius would be an instant death effect.

[General Patton]

Under this interpretation, the red box makes perfect sense. Air moves out as it heats up, and the heat remains inside the box until it reaches equilibrium at the point when it's the same temperature as the source. For most flames, that's somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 degrees Centigrade. So you end up, absurdly, with a very hot vacuum.

Aww, but that's not apocalyptic enough.
Under real physics this happens.

Spoiler

Show

Some quick Googling reveals that one cubic meter of air at STP has roughly 2.5X10^25 molecules. Set up your cubic meter red box in the winter when it's freezing at 273 K and blast the inside with fire until it's 1273 K. Eventual result? One molecule at 2.5X10^28 + 273 K. Heck, I wanted to siphon the heat out of a lava flow for this purpose. That's got way more molecules full of heat.

[Kellus]

So, rather than giving a steady push over a series of rounds, the lightningleap engine works in a series of jumps each 6 seconds apart.

Yes, exactly! Which is why the description compares it to a Ballistic engine in that sense, rather than the sustained motion of every other engine (except the planejumping one of course).

I'm sorry but I think red filters present a unique situation. There are only rules for a person of normal body temp being exposed to cold for long periods of time, not for having their body temperature removed. One pass through a red filter in room temp is the equivalent of hours spent freezing in weather. Also having your body temperature reduced to, say, -10 degrees Celsius would be an instant death effect.

You're absolutely right, some basic research shows that even small changes in internal body temperature are incredibly dangerous. I'll go the way of other filters and say that living creatures cannot have their body temperature changed using a Red filter. Luckily for everyone involved, that still allows dead bodies to be modified, so the Instant Defroster is still viable. And thus was Christmas saved once more.

Some quick Googling reveals that one cubic meter of air at STP has roughly 2.5X10^25 molecules. Set up your cubic meter red box in the winter when it's freezing at 273 K and blast the inside with fire until it's 1273 K. Eventual result? One molecule at 2.5X10^28 + 273 K. Heck, I wanted to siphon the heat out of a lava flow for this purpose. That's got way more molecules full of heat.

That does in fact sound pretty super awesome, and that was only my interpretation. If that would make your game better (and it's hard to imagine it not), be my guest!

[Amechra]

...

And then you use it to get as many ebbs as you need.

Because a Red filter won't block the bubble for an Ice Input...

[radmelon]

...

And then you use it to get as many ebbs as you need.

Because a Red filter won't block the bubble for an Ice Input...

You have doomed us all. But at least it will be an awesome doom.

[Kellus]

You have doomed us all. But at least it will be an awesome doom.

Haha, indeed. The lava generator is pretty much the end-all be-all for generators. On the other hand, if you go with the caloric interpretation, it's just a convenient way of partioning off heat. You could still use it to build up a huge reserve of heat before you get access to phlogiston, but not quite at the level of doomsday apocalypse, since the heat is used up during the transformation, and would have to recharge.

[ForzaFiori]

Ok, this is epic. I'm subscribing and reading through it sometime this weekend after all that text sets in.

[Kellus]

By the way, I wanted to mention that I really appreciate the intricate analysis and rules-reading that people are giving this project. I read somewhere that the best way to edit game rules would be to get a group of optimizers and offer them 10 bucks for every infinite loop or gamebreaking combo that they found. I don't have that much money (I don't think anybody has that much money), but I still wanted to thank everybody that's contributed to the early stages of this project. This project is all about creative problem-solving and using things in totally novel ways. You guys have thought up stuff and imagined things to do with these tools that I would never have thought of, and it just blows me away. Thank you! <3

[jojolagger]

By the way, I wanted to mention that I really appreciate the intricate analysis and rules-reading that people are giving this project. I read somewhere that the best way to edit game rules would be to get a group of optimizers and offer them 10 bucks for every infinite loop or gamebreaking combo that they found. I don't have that much money (I don't think anybody has that much money), but I still wanted to thank everybody that's contributed to the early stages of this project. This project is all about creative problem-solving and using things in totally novel ways. You guys have thought up stuff and imagined things to do with these tools that I would never have thought of, and it just blows me away. Thank you! <3

I love doing stuff like this. I get to combine Math, Engineering, legalese, and programming, to produce interesting results in a setting that interesting despite having no significant NPC's (yet).
Also, the wording for semi-spaces only stops bubbles originating from inside a semi-space from exiting, and it makes no such rule about a bubble from outside the semi-space entering it. Or through it if a semi-space is linked to another and then an opening.
Meaning the change to stop the AI from being everywhere doesn't stop my method for the AI being everywhere.

[Kellus]

Also, the wording for semi-spaces only stops bubbles originating from inside a semi-space from exiting, and it makes no such rule about a bubble from outside the semi-space entering it. Or through it if a semi-space is linked to another and then an opening.
Meaning the change to stop the AI from being everywhere doesn't stop my method for the AI being everywhere.

Hey, nice catch. Fixed it, although the change was for more than that. I was also concerned about people carried around infinite numbers of transformers and getting all the benefits of their input nets at once.

EDIT:

no significant NPC's (yet).

I do actually have a lot of plans for this, once the basic system is fairly solid and I'm happy with expansion material (most notably PrCs and racial substitution levels) I'm thinking about making a setting to show off some of the sorts of things that are possible with the technology...

[radmelon]

I just realized that biollurgy and eldrikinetics makes "Rocket Surgeon" a perfectly viable character concept.

[Eldan]

Hm. Biorocket. I'll get back to you on that.

[Eldan]

You know what prestige class should be adapted to this system? The Madspark Eccentric.

1. Because it's awesome.
2. Because it fits Gramarie.
3. Because sparks are clearly gramarists.
4. Because Girl Genius is the perfect source of inspiration for this system.

[General Patton]

Now that I think about it, you don't need to resort to the abomination that is caloric theory in order to have our so-called hot vacuum. When/if the last remaining molecule passes through the red filter, the heat separated from it becomes infrared radiation.

[Answerer]

If any of you have experience with thermodynamics would you mind doing some calculations? I've forgotten the exact mathematics involved.

You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?

I... think thermodynamics breaks down somewhat in that kind of situation. Thermodynamics is a statistical analysis of the gas as a whole, which becomes decreasingly reasonable the fewer atoms are in the gas.

It does remind me of the sun's corona, which is a region of a few but energetic particles. They are, in fact, the hottest particles in the sun, IIRC, but since they're so spread out you wouldn't even notice them (the radiation from the sun, though, that you definitely would).

And yes, once the last atom has exited the space, the word temperature no longer has a definition. The best I can come up with is that the filters, or the space between them, "remembers" the temperature, so that any particles that pass through the filter are heated to that temperature. It's sort of like if homeopathy were a real thing, instead of just a particularly egregious form of quackery...

[Eldan]

Now there's an epic principle for you. Functioning Homeopathy.

The epic Alchemetrist can take one potion and make two from it, both at an increased caster level.

[General Patton]

Well, you can already dissolve Carmot in a nigh-infinite quantity of water to spread the benefits to an entire population. Using Alkahest to dissolve the Carmot and retrieve it in granular form makes it pretty easy. Now, going so far as to enhance potions by reducing the amount of ingredients and energies in the dosage kind of breaks suspension of disbelief.

[radmelon]

It also occured to me, that a red filter box of hot vaccuum could be used as a simple, one-shot poor man's battery, way before you get orichalcum. Just be sure to enclose the box of red filters in a cage of real matter, so that someone doesn't put their hand through it, and lose the hand.