The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

[dethkruzer]

really liking this class. First of all I'd like to point out that there seems to be a typo in the "powers Known" column, at level 16. I also wanted to ask how
The Swarm Grows Evolution works, the Evolution points are deducted from the Swarmlords pool, correct? But also, since it gives you new Swarmlings, do these swarmlings each have their own pool of evolution points? Lastly, The Infested, Assimilate, and Embraced gain evolutions, I assume these evolutions are the same ones used by Swarmlings, is this right?

[Lix Lorn]

really liking this class. First of all I'd like to point out that there seems to be a typo in the "powers Known" column, at level 16.

Whoops. Fixed.

I also wanted to ask how
The Swarm Grows Evolution works, the Evolution points are deducted from the Swarmlords pool, correct? But also, since it gives you new Swarmlings, do these swarmlings each have their own pool of evolution points?

There is one pool of evolution points that is shared by all swarmlings. The Swarm Grows comes from this pool. In addition, each Swarmling gets points based on the Swarmlords level and charisma.

Lastly, The Infested, Assimilate, and Embraced gain evolutions, I assume these evolutions are the same ones used by Swarmlings, is this right?

Yes.

[Lix Lorn]

oh god why did I not reserve posts.
...
Oh god I need to clean up those sections. X_x

[Lady Serpentine]

Would you like me to do a writeup for Creep Tumors, so that you don't have quite as much to work on?

Also, on the whole thing about making hivemind people individuals again, I suspect the main reason to do so would be if you take over a swarm where the Swarmlord previously in control had chosen not to leave them intelligent.

[Erik Vale]

If they do not make their will save, the personality is gone. If they do make their save and join the hive mind anyway, then their personality is past of the gestalt.

These mental ability scores are fixed mental traits, and are not gained by Infested that pass their will save on creation. As clarification, these new ability scores represent the fact that the original self is effectively dead. Resurrection magic treats it as if their body was completely destroyed. (if the Infested body is slain, it can be used for resurrection again.)

If he failed his save, his identity, while still distinct, is perfectly loyal to the swarm. It is usually not gained by an Assimilated who passes his will save. A Swarmlord may choose not to cause this perfect loyalty effect. Healing an Assimilated to their original views is difficult. Remove Curse allows them a new will save, success freeing them, while spells such as Miracle or Wish are necessary to cure them automatically, and even that will not remove the template. (A second application would.)

Bolded the impotent bits.
Long story short, nothing short of a Wish or Miracle will return them to their previous views/restore their mind (with a decent chance of success, given that Swarmlords would go out of their way to become powerful) while Alive if they are of the Assimilated, and nothing can be done to resserect them.
Should they die thought, the personality/soul somehow reforms and can be reserected, even at the mindless infested level (This might need changing.)

A thought however, The Mindless Infested section says that the original is treated as dead, however they can't be reserected. How does this work with spells such as clone, which allow the soul to flee to the second body on death?
((If it prevents it, Swarmlords 1, Casters 0))

As someone said about the Creep stations, I might to make up some basic templates for acquisition throughout the swarmlord levels.

Edit: Opps, misread what you said. However, I'll leave it, it'll be good to have these bits out and bolded for thoughts and Q's...

As for getting cluttered, maybe make a new thread, continue development in this, Post the finished bits in the other.

Edit: You haven't given the blindsence, Blindsight and Darkvision special abilities ranges.

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, an Infested is considered to be dead. They can be resurrected, but their body can't be used for it unless it's been killed.
While an Assimilated is closer to being mind-controlled.

Will add range for vision stuff.

[Erik Vale]

Q, How does the Spirit force Evolution interact with infested/etc that already have sorcerer/Psion Casting?
I.E.:
Do the Levels Stack for purposes of Powers and Points/spells known and slots? (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force Become Level 10 Psion)
Do the Levels Stack for purposes of manifestor level? (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force has manifestor level 20)
Do they Count Separately? (Assumed at moment) (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force treats them separately)

[Lix Lorn]

Q, How does the Spirit force Evolution interact with infested/etc that already have sorcerer/Psion Casting?
I.E.:
Do the Levels Stack for purposes of Powers and Points/spells known and slots? (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force Become Level 10 Psion)
Do the Levels Stack for purposes of manifestor level? (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force has manifestor level 20)
Do they Count Separately? (Assumed at moment) (I.E a level 5 Psion with 15 points in Spirit force treats them separately)

Both of the first two statements are true.

A level 5 Wilder with 15 points in spirit force, however, would treat them seperately.

[dethkruzer]

would you by any chance have a change log for this class? seeing as it is still being worked .

[Lix Lorn]

Fraid not, why?

[dethkruzer]

well, I just noticed the Iron scales Evolution/Adaption had been changed, and I was just wondering if there had been any other mentionable changes, in this case, mostly concerning swarmlings and their evolutions/what-ever-you-are-calling-them-now.

[Lix Lorn]

I nerfed Ironscales because I was designing an Assimilated, and the template ended up giving them thirteen natural armor, minimum. Eleven is still too high really, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

There are several new Evolutions for Swarmlings. I renamed the Swarmlord Evolutions to Adaptions, because it was getting really confusing to refer to them. Infested, Assimilated, and Embraced get more evolution points now, and their Evolution section has been streamlined.

[Erik Vale]

Q: How does Mutable form interact with Spontainious Casters and Extra Spell Feats/Metamagic Feats?

Theoretically, After a few rounds observation and a round of choosing new spells/metamagic, a caster can choose the perfect spells for the job. In the case on PnP played games, this is less troubling due to the GM being able to reasonably say no due to time constraints but for PBP, A rulling is needed.
I would suggest a several round/minute/hour delay between granted spells, just to prevent infested sorcerers/warlocks/druids/clerics making the swarmlord firmly OP.

[Lix Lorn]

Q: How does Mutable form interact with Spontainious Casters and Extra Spell Feats/Metamagic Feats?

Theoretically, After a few rounds observation and a round of choosing new spells/metamagic, a caster can choose the perfect spells for the job. In the case on PnP played games, this is less troubling due to the GM being able to reasonably say no due to time constraints but for PBP, A rulling is needed.
I would suggest a several round/minute/hour delay between granted spells, just to prevent infested sorcerers/warlocks/druids/clerics making the swarmlord firmly OP.

It shouldn't. If you suddenly get more spells, they are gained as EMPTY spell slots. You'd need a few hours to fill them.

[Silva Stormrage]

It shouldn't. If you suddenly get more spells, they are gained as EMPTY spell slots. You'd need a few hours to fill them.

Extra spell lets the caster gain another spell known not another spell slot. What he is saying is that it lets a sorcerer effectively learn any spell it wants as a full round action at will. Which would break a sorcerer completely as it now knows every single utility spell that it ever needs.

[Erik Vale]

Extra spell lets the caster gain another spell known not another spell slot. What he is saying is that it lets a sorcerer effectively learn any spell it wants as a full round action at will. Which would break a sorcerer completely as it now knows every single utility spell that it ever needs.

This was what I meant (I thought the end of this post made it clear). Particularly, I am looking at the Warlock I am playing now that I have realised it. (Well, about to play...) I effectively have every invocation I could ever need chose-able as a full round action, as long as it doesn't need to be done through epic invoking.

[Lix Lorn]

Aaaaah. Hm. Yeah, that's not an intended interaction. Not sure if there's a subtle way to fix it...

[Erik Vale]

Well, Like I said. You could institute a several round/Minute wait. You could state that feats that grant extra spells/spell slots cant be chosen (Additional spell slots is also important, a spontainious could spend two rounds to loose then gain such feats to 'refresh'), you could state that such feat changes take a Longer time period or get locked in for a time period.

Say, you could have it as wizard spell preperation

Here are some examples that you can put in (The top to lines are always the same, chose one of the other blocks of text)

When using Mutable Form, any use that grants additional spells or spells known have the Following Effects:

Mutable Form instead takes takes 5 rounds of Full round Actons insted of 1 Round, durring which you are treated as flat footed and may take no other actions.
This also applies for power points and other forms of casting. (Change relevent words, such as spell slots to power points)


OR

Mutable Form will Never Grant Additional spell slots or spells, or any other form of additional casting.
This also applies for power points and other forms of casting. (Change relevent words, such as spell slots to power points)


OR

Mutable form can only be used to select new spells or have any affect that adds aditional spell slots 1 per day. This process takes 1 hour of Concentration and these points cannot be moved for 23 hours. If additional slots are granted through stat bonus, these points are applied as normal, but if taken off and reaplied, unused slots are always removed first. Also, should a used slot be taken away, should the stat points be reasigned then used slots are returned as used, preventing the refreshing of spell slots.
This also applies for power points and other forms of casting. (Change relevent words, such as spell slots to power points)

OR

If Mutable form is used in a way that grants spell slots or additional spells known, these slots are granted after the end of the encounter, or 5 minutes, whichever is longer. (Or as the DM feels apropriate)
This also applies for power points and other forms of casting. (Change relevent words, such as spell slots to power points)

[Lix Lorn]

I think I'll just specifically say you can't get Spirit Force or feats.

[Erik Vale]

And again, Druids and Sorcerers can gain/loose spell slots with increased atributes.

[Lix Lorn]

Gpoint, will clarify.

[Aldurin]

Since I'm going to be using this in a game I want to ask about the whole race thing, since it's not entirely clear.

At the top it says that the Swarmlord ARE a race, yet in the description of the Subtlety Adaption it says "making her look like a normal member of her race". The former implies that you don't get to select a race if you start as a Swarmlord, but the latter implies you choose a race before your character becomes a Swarmlord.

What I'm asking is does the Swarmlord class deny you the ability to choose a race, or do they get to choose a race and get such racial benefits normally?

[Lix Lorn]

Since I'm going to be using this in a game I want to ask about the whole race thing, since it's not entirely clear.

At the top it says that the Swarmlord ARE a race, yet in the description of the Subtlety Adaption it says "making her look like a normal member of her race". The former implies that you don't get to select a race if you start as a Swarmlord, but the latter implies you choose a race before your character becomes a Swarmlord.

What I'm asking is does the Swarmlord class deny you the ability to choose a race, or do they get to choose a race and get such racial benefits normally?

You still get a race. Taking Swarmlord levels is more like a template.

[Aldurin]

You still get a race. Taking Swarmlord levels is more like a template.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Lix Lorn]

No problem.

[Erik Vale]

Q: Do only swarmlord levels count for the Evolution Point Cap, or do all class levels count? This might be assumed knowledge that I don't have but clarification would be nice.

Q: How Pinnical Swarm interact with The Swarm Grows? Does it Add points as normal, or get ignored as the Swarmlord is technically using those points on 'herself'?

[Lix Lorn]

Q: Do only swarmlord levels count for the Evolution Point Cap, or do all class levels count? This might be assumed knowledge that I don't have but clarification would be nice.

Only Swamlord levels.

...although, I may change that. As it is, multiclassing out means you're USELESS. For now, only Swarmlord levels.

Q: How Pinnical Swarm interact with The Swarm Grows? Does it Add points as normal, or get ignored as the Swarmlord is technically using those points on 'herself'?

It adds points as normal! You'll note that the numbers work perfectly, as 24 is a multiple of six and adds another swarmling. As a downside, your GM and co-players may hate you.

[Erik Vale]

*Wicked Grinning*

What about you do it the same as with Swarm cap, Each level in another class counts as +1/2 for the cap. (So a level 8/2 something gets a cap of 9)

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

[Aldurin]

For Enhanced Ability, do reductions count against your total spending toward the cap on that evolution?

For example: If a level 10 swarmlord wants to increase a swarmling's Strength and constitution by 6 (12 points total) and decrease Charisma by 4 (gain 2 points back), would the bonus points keep that sort of spending within the limit of 10 points?