The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

[Lix Lorn]

I disagreed with pretty much everything in that post, and can't really reply to it without starting a tier argument. And they tend to get threads locked.

[drack]

Ah, my apologies then.

[Aldurin]

I'm looking at the embraced template, and if I'm reading this right then the person that has it then has the benefits of a swarmlord of her ECL, minus the manifesting, CHA to will saves, infestation/assimilation/embrace and Adaptions? Does this include the ability to make swarmlings, even if they choose not to have a level in swarmlord?

[Lix Lorn]

You're reading it right, and yes they may.

[zzuxon]

I really like this class. A lot. In fact, I'm making a few changes to a campaign setting I was already done with just to fit this in.
Anyway, I reccommend you add an evolution that can let your swarmling be a mount.

[Lix Lorn]

I really like this class. A lot. In fact, I'm making a few changes to a campaign setting I was already done with just to fit this in.
Anyway, I reccommend you add an evolution that can let your swarmling be a mount.

thanks.
...am I missing something?
Buy an exotic saddle. Boost it to large. Get on the saddle. Done.

[Aldurin]

For the Alternate Type: Humanoid evolution, would the Bonus HD evolution instead grant extra levels, or just RHD in humanoid? It's something I'm wondering about since I'm about to utilize that in a game I'm using this class in.

[Erik Vale]

Most of the time you gain levels in Warrior, every level divisible by three instead nets you a class level of whatever you want.

I might submit some other types though, I've been thinking about it.

[Qwertystop]

Oh, this thingy!
I saw it a while back (a month or two? Not sure), and thought it was cool. Then I lost it. Subscribing!

[Lix Lorn]

For the Alternate Type: Humanoid evolution, would the Bonus HD evolution instead grant extra levels, or just RHD in humanoid? It's something I'm wondering about since I'm about to utilize that in a game I'm using this class in.

Levels, same as normal

Oh, this thingy!
I saw it a while back (a month or two? Not sure), and thought it was cool. Then I lost it. Subscribing!

Heh, thanks.

[inuyasha]

this is pretty awesome :D I like it...but I do have one question.

What if we just wanted to have swarmlings, infesteds, embraced, and others as just creatures, like in a dungeon or building. Could you come up with a system for individual CRs of swarmligns?

[Lix Lorn]

CR is kinda broken anyway, so... not easily, no.
I'd recommend just adding effective levels of swarmlord, until the swarmling is powerful enough to be a balanced challenge for the party.

[inuyasha]

hmm ok :) because like I said, Ive always been a big fan of this class from the moment I saw it, Im glad the bugs have been fixed and stuff :D. Im actually thinking of having a swarmlord NPC that has taken over the castle, it is full of creep, infested beings, and swarmlings :) thanks for the class

[Lix Lorn]

Cool!
I hope you have fun!

[Qwertystop]

I just realized, looking at Swarm Beyond:

I think there've been more "looked into the abyss until it looked back - and the abyss blinked first" sort of uses of that phrase than the normal sort that stops at the first half.

[inuyasha]

yea and after I do it I will let you know how it goes :D

[Draken]

Problem is, they'd pretty much just be a soulknife.

Problem is, the soulknife sucks.

Fortunately, I, and half the homebrewers in the world, have made a fix for it already.

Wizards of the Coast fixed the Soulknife on the very same book they released it!

It's called the Psychic Warrior.

[Qwertystop]

Question regarding The Swarm Grows:

It says they share an evolution point pool but buy seperately. Does this mean that getting more Swarmlings means they'll all have to be weaker?

On another note, Resist. Wouldn't this fit into existing rules better if it was phrased as "DR X/-" (which is DR that blocks anything that doesn't just generally bypass all DR) and "{Energy} Resistance X" for every energy type (which would resist all energy)? Otherwise, it's completely unbypassable in any case I can think of. There's no effects that deal physical damage that say they bypass Energy Resistance, there's no effects that deal energy damage that say they bypass DR, and there's no effects that deal energy damage that say they bypass resistance to a different kind of energy. As written, for example, fire damage with Searing Spell wouldn't bypass Resist because Searing Spell doesn't bypass DR, Cold Resistance, Acid Resistance, Electricity Resistance, Sonic Resistance, or Force Resistance.

Also, it says "counts as Damage Resistance". AFAIK, DR actually stands for Damage Reduction. It's clear what is meant, but at the same time, it's technically a different term and you just KNOW someone would try to ruleslawyer even more immunity out of that. Or someone else would ruleslawyer that it does nothing because it's undefined.

[radmelon]

Also, resist as it is is functionally identical to hardness. It might be more elegant to simply give hardness instead.

[Aldurin]

Question regarding The Swarm Grows:

It says they share an evolution point pool but buy seperately. Does this mean that getting more Swarmlings means they'll all have to be weaker?

That's the main concept, but remember that swarmlings get a bonus pool equal to half of your swarmlord level multiplied by your CHA modifier. It can actually be more powerful to dump your entire main pool into making more swarmlings if you can get your charisma high enough to build them off of their bonus pools alone.

For Lix Lorn, this paragraph needs clarification. The contradictory parts are bolded. Does the swarmlord actually get its own bonus pool based on ability score, or is the bonus pool simply a third of its regular pool?

As a Swarmlord grows, she becomes closer to her swarm's ideal form. She gains bonus evolution points, just like those she gets for her swarmlings. She can spend these to increase her own abilities, exactly as if she were Swarmling. She may not choose evolutions that an Embraced could not take. She receives as many evolution points as one third of her total pool, rounded down. She does not gain bonus evolution points based on her ability scores.

[Erik Vale]

I think that's ment to mean they are used in the same way. Proposed correction.

As a Swarmlord grows, she becomes closer to her swarm's ideal form. She gains bonus evolution points, justthat can be used like those she gets for her swarmlings. She can spend these to increase her own abilities, exactly as if she were Swarmling[Tuatology with the last bit]. She may not choose evolutions that an Embraced could not take. She receives as many evolution points as one third of her total pool, rounded down. She does not gain bonus evolution points based on her ability scores.

[Lix Lorn]

Question regarding The Swarm Grows:

It says they share an evolution point pool but buy seperately. Does this mean that getting more Swarmlings means they'll all have to be weaker?

Yes, intended.

That's the main concept, but remember that swarmlings get a bonus pool equal to half of your swarmlord level multiplied by your CHA modifier. It can actually be more powerful to dump your entire main pool into making more swarmlings if you can get your charisma high enough to build them off of their bonus pools alone.

Also intended. xD

On another note, Resist. Wouldn't this fit into existing rules better if it was phrased as "DR X/-" (which is DR that blocks anything that doesn't just generally bypass all DR) and "{Energy} Resistance X" for every energy type (which would resist all energy)? Otherwise, it's completely unbypassable in any case I can think of. There's no effects that deal physical damage that say they bypass Energy Resistance, there's no effects that deal energy damage that say they bypass DR, and there's no effects that deal energy damage that say they bypass resistance to a different kind of energy. As written, for example, fire damage with Searing Spell wouldn't bypass Resist because Searing Spell doesn't bypass DR, Cold Resistance, Acid Resistance, Electricity Resistance, Sonic Resistance, or Force Resistance.

Also, it says "counts as Damage Resistance". AFAIK, DR actually stands for Damage Reduction. It's clear what is meant, but at the same time, it's technically a different term and you just KNOW someone would try to ruleslawyer even more immunity out of that. Or someone else would ruleslawyer that it does nothing because it's undefined.

My mistake on damage resistance, will edit that.
I'll also clarify that it's penetrated by effects that penetrate either.

For Lix Lorn, this paragraph needs clarification. The contradictory parts are bolded. Does the swarmlord actually get its own bonus pool based on ability score, or is the bonus pool simply a third of its regular pool?

The bonus pool is just a third of the normal pool. Will clarify.

I think that's meant to mean they are used in the same way. Proposed correction.

Will yoink. Thanks. xD

[inuyasha]

when you say swarmlord evolution do you mean adaption?

[Lix Lorn]

Where did I say it?

[inuyasha]

under the rapid evolution feat

[Lix Lorn]

Yes, it should. Thanks.

[galan]

well, i wanted to say this class is amazing. i will play it asap.

problam is, i cant find many psionic powers that feel.. right for this class. any chance there will be an ACF that gives lesser psionic power and something in return?

[Lix Lorn]

Hmm. That seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure what to replace it with.
(I'd recommend telepathy powers, mostly)

[Erik Vale]

That's What I normally go for. Also think of the healing/biofeedback for swarmlords with distan't manifestation. Any stunning spells are also good [theres one in the SRD to induce helplessness] to assist in infestation.

[inuyasha]

yeah I actually think that would make more sense because I dont think this should be a psionic class (other than the telepathy for controlling and communicating of course) but other than that I love this class