Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

[Flame of Anor]

I guess it sounds a lot like "Xerk-Quei"?

Someone in the comic discussion thread suggested it sounded like "iz-iz-zer-key", like "is this your key".

Ah, like "X-x-zer-quei"?

I considered the "Xxz" more to be one long hiss-sound (lizard or vampire (or vampire-lizard ;)) like), the "zer" is then longer and clearly pronounced while the "qei" is very quick and short.
So you get like "XsssssERkeiii"

I predict desperate flamewars and mod interventions over this point in the near future.

[SaintRidley]

Ah, like "X-x-zer-quei"?

I considered the "Xxz" more to be one long hiss-sound (lizard or vampire (or vampire-lizard ;)) like), the "zer" is then longer and clearly pronounced while the "qei" is very quick and short.
So you get like "XsssssERkeiii"

Perhaps the spelling is an arbitrary Commonization of Lizardfolk's spelling, and the word is really pronounced like "Bob."

[Flame of Anor]

Perhaps the spelling is an arbitrary Commonization of Lizardfolk's spelling, and the word is really pronounced like "Bob."

I don't think there's ever been that weird a transcription IRL.

[137beth]

I don't think there's ever been that weird a transcription IRL.

I also don't think RL has any lizardfolks, or (Moderately) Dismissible Mass Death Ward spells, or intelligent undead.

[Raineh Daze]

I think someone suggested it's 'Isthisyourkey' all run together very quickly.

[Dr. Gamera]

At the point where I read up on the 50+ posts that were made here in the past two days. I'm not online 24/7, you know

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way; was just trying to ask how this thread works, as it's one I started following only recently.

[RickDaily12]

Well, unfortunately...

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Durkon declared "deceased", as of strip 877.

And another "CRAP CRAP CRAP!!!" for the road.

Possibly needing more updates as the next immediately following strips progress.

[mawexzon]

So, two things.
First, I'm pretty sure everybody agrees Malack is Lawful and Evil.
And, Durkon

Spoiler

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should be listed as deceased, at least until he rises as a Vampire.

[Winter]

So, two things.
First, I'm pretty sure everybody agrees Malack is Lawful and Evil.
And, Durkon

Spoiler

Show

should be listed as deceased, at least until he rises as a Vampire.

I'm strongly suggesting to at least wait for the next strip before listing Durkon as deceased. I somehow have the feeling he might need a template-addition instead.

[mawexzon]

I'm strongly suggesting to at least wait for the next strip before listing Durkon as deceased. I somehow have the feeling he might need a template-addition instead.

I know, but for the time being until that happens, he should be listed as deceased.

[Emmit Svenson]

Because apparently Durkon has no 8th level spells.

Except his researched Mass Death Ward is, I think. So there's no need for a change.

No, Malack’s Dismissable Mass Death Ward is level 7, by word of Giant.

There’s been no indication that Durkon can cast 8th level spells. If he could, he’d have been talking about using Greater Planar Ally, not Planar Ally, to fortify the gate after a night’s rest. The spell slot count he displayed in the hunt for Gerard’s Gate is entirely consistent with him being a 14th level cleric with the Good domain and a wisdom of 22+.

The belief that Durkon is level 15 hinges on the number of “thonks” appearing in a single panel of a comedy fight. By the same strip, Belkar is a Halfling Sheriff with d6 hit dice.

I agree that Durkon’s level should be shown as 14.

[mawexzon]

I noticed something, In #209, Elan mentions the samurai class, in fact, mentions an old and a new samurai class, so, Should whatever sourcebooks the Samurai classes are in (Complete Warrior, although that one already is, and Oriental Adventures, I think) be listed in sourcebooks used for the comic?

[Tomada]

No, Malack’s Dismissable Mass Death Ward is level 7, by word of Giant.

There’s been no indication that Durkon can cast 8th level spells. If he could, he’d have been talking about using Greater Planar Ally, not Planar Ally, to fortify the gate after a night’s rest. The spell slot count he displayed in the hunt for Gerard’s Gate is entirely consistent with him being a 14th level cleric with the Good domain and a wisdom of 22+.

The belief that Durkon is level 15 hinges on the number of “thonks” appearing in a single panel of a comedy fight. By the same strip, Belkar is a Halfling Sheriff with d6 hit dice.

I agree that Durkon’s level should be shown as 14.

I concur. Level 14 with an undisclosed +1 caster level item or bonus, that is applied to, at least, the Holy Word spell. (I'm pretty sure there are feats and stuff to do this.)

[Flame of Anor]

I noticed something, In #209, Elan mentions the samurai class, in fact, mentions an old and a new samurai class, so, Should whatever sourcebooks the Samurai classes are in (Complete Warrior, although that one already is, and Oriental Adventures, I think) be listed in sourcebooks used for the comic?

Ah, yes, I agree. As should Sword and Fist, which is the source for the Master Samurai PrC which Elan mentions.

[EmperorSarda]

So Durkon is now listed as deceased, but he still listed as 15th level. Perhaps I am wrong, but isn't the consensus that Durkon is 14th level? Or maybe I am confused; but here are the arguments as I see them:

Durkon for 15th level:
1. Cause Belkar got 7 attacks in a joke comic in which we don't know precisely if it was one round.
2. The Mass Death Ward, though 7th level, could have been prepared in an 8th level slot.

Arguments for 14th level:
1. If Durkon had prepared the Mass Death Ward in an 8th slot, then Durkon would have an additional spell to use. Even spontaneous casting of mass cure critical wounds would have been better than anything.
2. Durkon has cast no 8th level spells. Nor has he made 3 attacks in 1 round.

Maybe there is more, but I am short on time. I think though that Durkon is 14th level, making Belkar and other evil characters who were also deafened, at 15th level.

[137beth]

@above:
Given that that "consensus" has been reached in the past few hours (quotes to indicate that it may not be a consensus, given how few people would have had time to respond in a brief time period), I would suppose that the reason it hasn't been changed in the past few hours is

At the point where I read up on the 50+ posts that were made here in the past two days. I'm not online 24/7, you know

You can't really expect instantaneous editing of the first post, can you?

[EmperorSarda]

You can't really expect instantaneous editing of the first post, can you?

Probably not. Sorry for my haste.

[Tomada]

So Durkon is now listed as deceased, but he still listed as 15th level. Perhaps I am wrong, but isn't the consensus that Durkon is 14th level? Or maybe I am confused; but here are the arguments as I see them:

Durkon for 15th level:
1. Cause Belkar got 7 attacks in a joke comic in which we don't know precisely if it was one round.
2. The Mass Death Ward, though 7th level, could have been prepared in an 8th level slot.

Arguments for 14th level:
1. If Durkon had prepared the Mass Death Ward in an 8th slot, then Durkon would have an additional spell to use. Even spontaneous casting of mass cure critical wounds would have been better than anything.
2. Durkon has cast no 8th level spells. Nor has he made 3 attacks in 1 round.

Maybe there is more, but I am short on time. I think though that Durkon is 14th level, making Belkar and other evil characters who were also deafened, at 15th level.

Or, as I said, we could leave Belkar at 16th, and apply some unknown bonus to Durkon caster level, at least on the Holy Word casting.

[EmperorSarda]

Or, as I said, we could leave Belkar at 16th, and apply some unknown bonus to Durkon caster level, at least on the Holy Word casting.

What other bonus is there? Durkon already has the benefit of the good domain which treats spells like Holy Word as if they were of a caster level higher. What other bonus could there be? And if there is a bonus that would stack with the Good Domain bonus, why add it all since it has not been mentioned?

We have two competing arguments in the comic. Belkar is level 16 because of 7 thonks, which until recently we supposed that Durkon had to be 15th level due to Belkar being deafened.

However, seeing that the evidence now points to Durkon now being 14th level due not having cast 8th level spells, not having a spell above 4th level to help (and citing the remaining high level spells he cannot use), he cannot be 15th level.

Since there is stronger evidence of what Durkon is than what Belkar is, it makes no sense to list Durkon as 14th level and Belkar (and others deafened) at 16th level and attribute it to some unknown benefit that hasn't been mentioned.

[Bird]

Plus, isn't the MO of the thread to assume lower level(s) unless demonstrated otherwise? Seems the burden of proof would be on the 15th level camp.

[Ajadea]

Bringing in some support for 15th level from the Spells Durkon has Cast thread:

The tally now stands at:

8th –
7th – holy word^D, mass death ward, resurrection (2)
6th – extended true seeing, find the path, heal (2), planar ally
5th – thor's might, true seeing
4th – cure critical wounds
3rd – dispel magic, mass resist energy, meld into stone, remove blindness/deafness, speak with dead, thor's lightning^D
2nd – cure moderate wounds, hold person (2), remove paralysis
1st – cure light wounds, divine favor
0 (at-will) – detect poison, guidance

...plus at least two healing spells of unknown (though probably fifth) level.

He prepared 4 7th level spells today: Holy Word, Malack's Dismissible Mass Death Ward, and 2 Resurrections.

This means one of two things - he's 14th level and his Wisdom is at least 24, or he's 15th level and prepared one of those 7th level spells in an 8th level slot. Both are potential solutions. He had at least 1 7th-level spell remaining after Nale's enervation - Malack's MDW is 7th level. All that is known from the dialogue in that scene is that he lost at least 2 spells - which means that he was dealt a minimum of 2 negative levels, and still had 1 7th level spell remaining.

[EmperorSarda]

or he's 15th level and prepared one of those 7th level spells in an 8th level slot.

I already address this though, if Durkon had access to 8th level spells and put a 7th level spell in an 8th level spell slot, then he would have his domain spell left. Which is either Holy Aura or an unknown Thor spell. Given that Durkon was contemplating going melee with Malack when he thought of Thor's Might and used Divine Grace to improve his attack and damage, why would he not use Holy Aura which grants him improved AC and other defense?

Or if the Thor domain spell was prepared and not useful, why not spontaneous cast mass cure serious wounds? It'd heal Belkar some, and would be far more useful than just hitting Malack with a hammer.

Either way, having an 8th level left does not jive with Durkon's statement that he has "naught above 4th level" to use.

[Procyonpi]

Durkon is now a Vampire.

I wonder how this effects his spellcasting, as presumably, he can't still get spells from Thor.

[mawexzon]

maybe he will worship nergal now.

[Malanthyus]

So should we bother adding the new template to durkon, or wait a few strips to see how long he lasts?

[SavageWombat]

I say wait at least 'til tomorrow. I still expect to see "Durkon" as a character in the afterlife, and "Count Durkula" with the Linear Guild (at least temporarily) and we might need separate entries.

[EmperorSarda]

Should we include Malack's Vampire Hastening Spell as part of the staff?

[Gift Jeraff]

Is it also safe to assume Malack's staff has Heal? He used it the same way he did to hasten the rise of Durkon as he did to heal not-nale and V.

[rgrekejin]

Perhaps the spelling is an arbitrary Commonization of Lizardfolk's spelling, and the word is really pronounced like "Bob."

I once worked with a man named Kyaw who instructed me to pronounce his name like "Joe". To this day, I have no idea whether that was actually how it was said or if he was just sick of everyone mispronouncing it.

[Guy Incognito]

Durkon is now a Vampire.

I wonder how this effects his spellcasting, as presumably, he can't still get spells from Thor.

Vampire clerics who become incompatible with their gods start drawing power from negative energy. The only major difference is that now Durkon's domains change from two of Thor's domains to two of Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery.