Speculate on the upcoming OOTS/LG/Team Evil royale!

[Smash_Gordon]

I'll add more after classes, but here's a few thoughts I had.

1) They find the gate. All at the same time
(1a) V's 44:16 comes into effect, and he engages Xykon for at least part of the match. (I'm a little fuzzy on whether or not the fiends can soul splice again.)

2) Durkon and Malack team up to fight Redcloak. Overwhelmed, Redcloak teleports the gate away, but not where he wanted it. Alternatively, a spliced V performs the same action. (see #5)

3) Nale is killed, Belkar is Killed, Thog was dead the whole time. I think the Giant is going to clean house on the secondary villains once Belkar's year is up. Everyone in LG right now will be dead before the story leaves the western continent.

4) Tarquin will not die in the temple if #2 happens, but if not, then he probably will.

5) the fight is relocated entirely. Personally? I'd like the gate to be moved back to the Capital. Xykon abandons his fight with the protagonists to seek it out, and the fall of the city looks like another invasion. Tarquin's legacy dies in ignominy.

6) Elan and Haley are married by Durkon.

7) V stays with the party until the end of the fight, but reveals his hand in killing the Draketooths and either resigns or is booted from the party.

8) The OOTS gets a new addition!

your thoughts?

[Emperordaniel]

The latter part of #7 sounds a little unlikely to me; as the team wizard, the Order entirely relies on Vaarsuvius for the arcane side of their quest (sure, Elan can cast arcane spells, but he's only good at being a Dashing Swordsman), and Blackwing would do everything he could to keep V in the group. And since we're nearing the end of the story, I think it's a little late for a new addition to the group as per #8. At most, they'd get an "addition" for a few dozen pages, like with Miko Miyazaki back in the early 200's.

[Smash_Gordon]

Maybe you're right. V may or may not get kicked out, but it's going to come up in an uncomfortable way and the party will need to spend a while dealing with it.

Speaking of deals, how exactly do you think V's 44:16 will factor into the fight?

[BaronOfHell]

What is meant by "V's 44:16"?

I think more soul splicing would be a lack of creativity. I don't think the gate can be teleported away. I don't think they'll boot V, it's V's trauma. The others can probably see V didn't intend to take down the draketooths and have already accepted V for who he is, despite disagreement. V is questioning who is, because of the consequence of his actions.

[Smash_Gordon]

44 minutes, 16 seconds --> the amount of time that the fiends have to control V's soul. I think splicing again would be an interesting reversal - V becomes a gamebreaker again, except he is controlled by the three fiends.

The point of Redcloak's ritual (830) was to teleport the gate elsewhere. I feel like that is going to come into play sooner rather than later, especially if Xykon learns the ritual's true nature.

Barring an extra-long arc I doubt that the Girard's Gate plot will be resolved soon. To continue in the temple would be mundane, but to completely resolve the loose ends and start on the next gate? chiral.

And I think V has been separated from the party for a good reason. What happens if he's not their ally when the chips are down?

[Gift Jeraff]

Tarquin dies screaming in agony.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think more soul splicing would be a lack of creativity. I don't think the gate can be teleported away. I don't think they'll boot V, it's V's trauma. The others can probably see V didn't intend to take down the draketooths and have already accepted V for who he is, despite disagreement. V is questioning who is, because of the consequence of his actions.

Whenever people bring up the possibility that the IFCC will use their time in control of V's soul to force V into a soul splice, I can't help but think "so?" According to everything we've been told about soul splices, the spliced souls have no power over the soul to which they're spliced, or the body that belongs to that soul. They're a resource to be tapped.

There are ways around that. Maybe we were lied to and a spliced soul can in fact influence the splicee's actions. All the information we know about soul splices comes from admitted liars and manipulators after all. Or maybe now that the fiends own V's soul they can remove it from her body, place another soul under their control into the body...and then splice V's soul onto it. All V's power, knowledge, and experience is there for some evil spellcaster thrall of theirs to tap, and as an added bonus V gets to sit there and watch as she does terrible things with no control over the outcome.

While my respect for Roy would skyrocket if he kicked V out of the party, or at least confiscated her spellbooks and dictated her prepared spells every morning, you're probably right that it won't happen. There's evidence that states Roy would act that way. When Haley kicked Belkar out of her party for "killing someone [she] needed", Roy approved. On the other hand, Roy's still keeping Belkar around even after that. On the other other hand, that's because he knows Belkar won't be his problem after a while. V doesn't have an Oracle-derived expiration date, and, being an elf, could potentially outive Roy by several hundred years, doing evil all the while.

[Incom]

^V's debt is interpreted as forty-five minutes of mind control. How could three uber-powerful fiends that can't normally act on the material plane possibly abuse a mind-controlled wizard with an effective character level high enough to not get XP from an ancient black dragon? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I brought up in an earlier thread that by the Exact Words (tv) of the deal, the fiends get possession of V's soul for a time equal to the duration which he holds the splices--and that could be interpreted to include the time V would maintain the splices while mind-controlled too, so as to get unlimited control of the wizard as long as at least one of them was paying attention. Of course, everyone else thought that was stupid, but whatever.

Back on topic, I'm thinking Malack or Elan will talk V out of his current panic--as all three of them are separated from the conflict.

[rgrekejin]

44 minutes, 16 seconds --> the amount of time that the fiends have to control V's soul. I think splicing again would be an interesting reversal - V becomes a gamebreaker again, except he is controlled by the three fiends.

My biggest complaint about the fiends being able to re-splice V is that it would be, to quote V, "a fairly dull and predictable plot turn". I sincerely hope that whatever the fiends end up doing with their V-time, it is more nuanced and creative than that.

The point of Redcloak's ritual (830) was to teleport the gate elsewhere. I feel like that is going to come into play sooner rather than later, especially if Xykon learns the ritual's true nature.

Redcloak's ritual allows the Dark One to move the gate to another plane. It does not allow Redcloak, Xykon, or anyone else to move the gate, and even if they could, it would only allow them to move the gate to another plane. I'm pretty sure the gate can't be moved to a different location on the same plane. Heck, if Xykon did know the ritual's true nature, why would he ever preform it? Under no circumstances does it allow the gate to be controlled by him.

Barring an extra-long arc I doubt that the Girard's Gate plot will be resolved soon. To continue in the temple would be mundane, but to completely resolve the loose ends and start on the next gate? chiral.

...okay. I'll bite. In what way would resolving all of the loose ends and starting on the next gate be a non-superimposable mirror image? And of what?

My personal crackpot theory is that, since we have no real idea how much time has passed since Xykon and Redcloak went off to ward their fortress, that perhaps Xykon and Redcloak are already at the gate, performing the ritual as we speak. Yes, I realize that the probability of this is low (as is the probability that Xykon just walked by a room full of mummified corpses without at least stopping to reanimate a few), but it might make for a neat twist.

[Finagle]

Honestly, I don't think there will be a 3-way fight, now that the Linear Guild is out of the picture. Maybe they'll rest and recuperate and come back...no way to tell at the moment.

[Ghosty]

I like the speculation that you all have posted so far.

My own contribution is twofold:

1. We'll see Ian and Uncle Geoff somewhere in the tomb, and they'll have something useful to contribute.
2. Girard shows up somehow. He's half-draconic; isn't it reasonable to expect that the present events would be within his natural lifespan? If he didn't die of old age, that implies he died from an accident or a critter got him, and that the Draketooth Clan didn't have the resources to raise him. I'm not sure that #2 is impossible, with a paranoid clan that might not have a cleric with enough horsepower to Resurrect him. And that might not want try finding a cleric who does, and allow the news to get out that Girard isn't guarding the Gate anymore.

This will mean he'll need to be Rezzed' (or True Res, despite the Giant's stated antipathy to that spell) and guess who just happens to have one dose of diamond dust left...? Malack wouldn't trip Girard's alignment filter, would he? I just can't see any arcane caster still in Stick-World, besides Girard, who can do more than serve as a speed bump to Xykon. Hence, if Xykon gets foiled at this Gate, Girard'll have to show up to do it.

Meh, I don't think #2 will happen, but this is the thread for rank speculation. I'll go with it.

[Emperordaniel]

I like the speculation that you all have posted so far.

My own contribution is twofold:

1. We'll see Ian and Uncle Geoff somewhere in the tomb, and they'll have something useful to contribute.
2. Girard shows up somehow. He's half-draconic; isn't it reasonable to expect that the present events would be within his natural lifespan? If he didn't die of old age, that implies he died from an accident or a critter got him, and that the Draketooth Clan didn't have the resources to raise him. I'm not sure that #2 is impossible, with a paranoid clan that might not have a cleric with enough horsepower to Resurrect him. And that might not want try finding a cleric who does, and allow the news to get out that Girard isn't guarding the Gate anymore.

This will mean he'll need to be Rezzed' (or True Res, despite the Giant's stated antipathy to that spell) and guess who just happens to have one dose of diamond dust left...? Malack wouldn't trip Girard's alignment filter, would he? I just can't see any arcane caster still in Stick-World, besides Girard, who can do more than serve as a speed bump to Xykon. Hence, if Xykon gets foiled at this Gate, Girard'll have to show up to do it.

Meh, I don't think #2 will happen, but this is the thread for rank speculation. I'll go with it.

Girard is only quarter-draconic. That, and the fact that had he still been alive, he would definitely have fallen to the Familicide make his appearance here (except as a ghost, perhaps - but that was already done back in Azure City) all but impossible.

[Ghosty]

Girard is only quarter-draconic. That, and the fact that had he still been alive, he would definitely have fallen to the Familicide make his appearance here (except as a ghost, perhaps - but that was already done back in Azure City) all but impossible.

Oh, I'm not saying he was alive when Familicide hit. Just saying that he was already dead from misadventure/accident and the Clan couldn't Rez him for one reason or another. (Although---this might be a little convoluted---was he paranoid enough to kill himself before the natural end of his life, with instructions or a pre-loaded rune to Rez him if the leader of the Clan felt a threat was coming that they couldn't handle or hide from? Sort of a "In Case of Emergency, Break Glass and Rez Epic Illusionist"? It's not like the Clan was going to generate someone with his kind of power on their own, given the absolute rarity of Epic NPCs.)

Then Familicide kills everyone w/o warning, and no Rez. Until a blundering, panicking V knocks on the wrong piece of wood...

Edit: All of this assumes---and I'm probably wrong---that a character's natural lifespan doesn't proceed while they are dead. (Jeez, that looks weird, re-reading it.) IOW, if you were going to live 85 years normally, but die 45 years in, can you be Rezzed 80 years later (assume True Rez, Wish, whatever) and keep going for 40 more years?

Good pickup on the quarter-Draconic instead of half. I didn't catch that initially, and it doesn't give him enough natural lifespan. Probably.

[B. Dandelion]

Redcloak's ritual allows the Dark One to move the gate to another plane. It does not allow Redcloak, Xykon, or anyone else to move the gate, and even if they could, it would only allow them to move the gate to another plane. I'm pretty sure the gate can't be moved to a different location on the same plane. Heck, if Xykon did know the ritual's true nature, why would he ever preform it? Under no circumstances does it allow the gate to be controlled by him.

rgrekejin is correct. We have Word of God on this specifically.

the Gate or the rift could not have been physically moved. [...]

The use of Redcloak's magic ritual to shift the Gate into another plane is entirely unrelated, and in fact can only shift a Gate to another plane—not to another place in THIS plane. Think of it like moving a Bag of Holding from the Prime to an Outer Plane: you've moved the entranceway to an extradimensional space, but opening it still leads to the same interior.

[Winter]

As for "Forcing Vaarsuvius into another Soul Splice":

All the problems aside why they should even *want* that I have to point out how Soulsplices work: The receiver has to actively maintain control of the spices to keep them from vanishing.
The consequence is you cannot splice souls to an unwilling target because you could not make the target keep them against his or her will.

We can fully forget about that theory.