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2012-09-16, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
That go down when hit by a few metal slugs...
If I hit someone in Legendary with that big as Beam Weapon will it's shields go down? What happens if they take 2-3 hits?
Lasguns (titled Flashlights due to their being Weak compared to other weapons) are those Beam Cannons on semi-auto/auto.
Or how about Bolters? Which basically Penetrating Rockets. (Rocket-propelled, they explode inside you) Would their armour hold up to that? Even if they do stop the insertion would the Rocket-To-The-Face be protected against?
Your regenerating shield is basically a 1-use Armour save.<-- Give the zombie a hug. You know you want too. It's so lonely.
I have quit Giantitp. I may be back but not anytime soon
Sorry everyone
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2012-09-16, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Actually, Space Marines have an implant specifically designed to insure that their armour DOESN'T affect their mobility at all. that is specifically what the Black Carapace is for, and it allows them to be just as hard to hit as if they weren't even wearing it, despite them counting as a size bigger whilst they are. It also increases their strength to ridiculous degrees and has a number of fancy tricks that the average spartan would be incredibly jealous about, such as a range of different sensors (which would most likely handily negate the covenants cloaking devices), automatic medical treatments and so on. It's easy to understate how much more impressive Space Marine Armour is that the Mjolnir thing.
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2012-09-16, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Well I didn't know about them. So I looked it up on the Halo wiki and here is generally what I found.
The shields are decent and actually provide some defense against torpedoes unlike Imperial shields. However they are particularly weak to lance weapons and other energy weapons. They also charge up slower then the Imperial shields. Also they do have an exploitable weakness in that they have to drop shields around fighter bays/torpedo tubes in order to launch their weapons.
I also found that the 'glassing' gun is generally on the three top ships and is about equilvent to a single lance in both range and power. However the glassing itself takes a long time as they go over the entire planet's surface having to actually shoot again and again to cover the entire surface. So their planet destruction abilities are much worse then the Imperium's.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
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Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2012-09-16, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
That could work in the Covenant's favor to a degree then, because it is standard Imperial doctrine to batter down shield with projectile batteries before firing lances so the shields don't get in the way. Until/unless they get some salvage samples, they'd assume shields = shields like every other energy shield in their universe and use standard tactics.
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2012-09-16, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
The difference as far as I can tell is that a lance would go through the shields like a bullet through tissue paper and the batteries would have to go through it normally.
Also source? I've never heard that as a standard tactic before. Particularly as some ships only have lances or are just very lance heavy.
I should point out also that some ships do have energy weapon banks that aren't lances. So they'll likely figure it out sooner then you think.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2012-09-16, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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2012-09-16, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Indeed.
And yes, there do exist energy based non-lance weapons, but they are rare (typically mounted on Adeptus Mechanicus ships who can experiment with the weird stuff, or lost archaeotech ships), and usually shorter-ranged. The exceptions are xeno-tech weapons (Eldar use energy weapon batteries instead of projectiles), but that wouldn't be found on Imperial Navy line vessels.
Ships with lance-only or lance-heavy armament aren't typically standard line vessels either. They're purpose designed that way, to move in concert with other ships carrying a heavy or pure projectile armament.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-16 at 12:29 PM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
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2012-09-16, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
So we're not including psychological warfare, and ignoring the fact that they can always target notable areas first for the sake of strategy. Sounds good. They have a lot more capable weapons, but they glass to make humans suffer. They want to remind them of their power by showing them they can just take a few days to completely annihilate the surface of a planet, with no worry of opposition. Should they want to use more efficient methods, they will.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Quickly regenerating reliable shields that go down reliably against UNSC MAC cannons. We did the math and they can withstand a couple megajoules of energy (enough to defend against their own plasma weapons; but not the energy projectors aboard Super Carriers). Imperial Lance Batteries operate at the level of gigajoules.
How do we know? Because standard Covenant Plasma weapons melt through UNSC ships with relative ease. A standard Lance Battery aboard and Imperial Cruiser does the same thing, only against ships double or triple the size of the Covenant ships. The other difference being that Imperial Ships have Void shielding which can withstand multiple Lance hits (they have to, because Lances melt right through the 10-30 meter thick armor, again nearly twice that of Covenant ship hull plating), and are similarly regenerative (not quite as reliably as the Covenant's, but still).
And based on the Battle of Reach novel and the Halo wiki, the standard engagement range for Covenant craft is 10,000-30,0000km. Again, only half or a third of the standard engagement range established in Battlefleet Gothic (the ship combat game for the 40k universe).
The only thing in the Covenant Fleet capable of giving anything in the Imperial Navy a run for it's money is the Super Carrier. Standard Imperial Frigates and Cruisers should reliably be able to tank dozens of Covenant ships, disabling or destroying them in droves with their broadsides and Torpedos (which Covenant craft point defense systems will be less effective against, seeing as Imperial Torpedos are again twice or three times the size of anything the UNSC or Covenant themselves use).
As for how to deal with the Super Carriers themselves? Boarding actions by Space Marine Terminators should be more than sufficient.Favorite Things Mr. Welch can't do during an RPG:
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- Collateral Damage Man is not an appropriate concept for a super hero.
- No longer allowed to recreate the Death Star Trench Run out of genre.
- When accepting a challenge for a duel, I must allow the other guy time to find a pistol.
- Check the door means to listen at it, not put several rounds through it.
- We will not implement any plan that includes the words "And hope they miss a lot"
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2012-09-16, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Where does this come from?
No seriously what is this being established from?
And if its JUST a number... well I really don't like to use numbers in arguments like this but. A standard MAC is for its slug and velocity is rated at 2.7 x 1014 Joules. Rounded off that is a Petajoule but even rounding down to 1014 a Gigajoule's order of magnitude is 109. So help me if remember my scientific notation properly that is along the lines of 100,000 times difference.
That is the standard for a UNSC shipboard MAC, which the wiki goes onto explain a Covenant vessels shields can tank multiple impacts from. Ergo by your own rating Imperial Lances are well within the tolerance level of Covenant shielding being several orders of magnitude weaker then weapons they routinely bear the brunt of.
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2012-09-16, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
I'm also curious where the gigajoules figure comes from, though all this line of argument is proving to me is that science fiction writers (Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo, 40K, whatever) should never be allowed near a number pad, because they have no sense of scale whatsoever.
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2012-09-16, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Lasguns are weak, point. When 40K first came out they were claimed to be good as military rifles. Aka our guns from multiple decades ago.
And then when you check Imperial Guard novels, taking cover behind the bodies of unarmored heretics always works to stop lasgun shots. Whereas our real-world hand rifles can easily punch trough multiple human bodies.
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2012-09-16, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Agreed. The more impressive number is the 10-30 meters of Armor ignored anyways. Also with their shields being weak to lances (and other energy weapons) and their shorter engagement ranges it looks like the Imperium would be able to pick off all but the Supercarriers which look to be roughly equivilant to a Space Station with 7 lance shots. Harder to deal with but do-able. Also the sort of thing that would attract Space Marines or Mechanicus ships.
Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2012-09-16, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Back to the Future, which got time travel right in almost every aspect, failed to represent a gigawatt. 1.21 gigawatts from plutonium? Or recycled matter? That won't work. Especially considering the average nuclear power plant produces about 5 to 6 gigawatts.
Either that, or Doc got his hands on some really, really good plutonium.Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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2012-09-16, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Neurotypicalville, WA
Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Uh, if it's any consolation, or if I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry. I don't know what you posted, but clearly I must have offended you in some manner.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Oh hey, look what I just found on the Halo Wiki, on the page for Orbital Defense Platforms and their Super MACs:
These cannons fire a 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round at 119916983.2 meters per second,[4] impacting with a massive amount of kinetic energy, equal to approximately 5325 megatons of energy.
Ignore me, I got Gigatons and Gigajoules mixed up.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-16 at 03:50 PM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
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2012-09-16, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
I like how Halo fails in physics just as much as Warhammer.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Warhammer doesn't really try to pretend its physics is realistic, though, which is a small technical point in its favor.
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2012-09-16, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Yeah, guess I never should have tried to bring in numbers XD
Anyway, I think the point that Imperial Lance weapons routinely melt through ships double and triple the size of Covenant Cruisers should count for a lot in how any space battles will work out.Favorite Things Mr. Welch can't do during an RPG:
- My monk's lips must be in sync.
- Collateral Damage Man is not an appropriate concept for a super hero.
- No longer allowed to recreate the Death Star Trench Run out of genre.
- When accepting a challenge for a duel, I must allow the other guy time to find a pistol.
- Check the door means to listen at it, not put several rounds through it.
- We will not implement any plan that includes the words "And hope they miss a lot"
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2012-09-16, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
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- Neurotypicalville, WA
Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Considering it's been previously established that the Covenant isn't outright stupid, they wouldn't engage the Imperium in space combat. If they got put into that position, they'd enter a slipspace jump as quickly as possible to get from one place to the next. While not as efficient, it's still better as an escape plan, as slipspace travel is more akin to teleportation rather than moving unbelievably fast.
You're not going to get a space battle with them, as nice as that sounds . They're going to engage the Imperium where they have the advantage. Namely, where they can set up cannon fodder at the front lines, forcing the Imperium to waste their resources on little punks like Grunts and Skirmishers without knowing of the other, more obvious threats while Jackals take them apart with long-range weaponry, Brutes put on pressure with heavy weaponry, Elites flank and penetrate defenses with effective anti-shield weaponry (plasma is made to take down shields, not armor; however, it's still effective against armor), and of course, the incredibly devastating Gravity Hammer and Energy Sword.
Note: the Energy Sword blocks bullets. The Gravity Hammer displaces gravitational fields at such a rapid pace that the bends would seem like a sneeze in comparison to the pain you'd have to deal with.Last edited by Triscuitable; 2012-09-16 at 04:25 PM.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Yeah, in my eyes, I, along with a few buddies and a case of energy drinks, kicked the Covenant's butt six ways to Sunday. Four guys basically soloed their entire military power over and over and over. I'd give them almost no odds against the Imperium. Just talking sheer manpower, the Covies are just not capable of doing anything except reaching a draw by wiping out sentient life with a Halo ring, if you even gave them a Halo as a resource and the Imperium didn't just blow it up faster that you can say "Master Chief".
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2012-09-16, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
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2012-09-16, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-16, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-16, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Consider this:
- The Covenant in the games is not the Covenant we are basing this argument on. Rather, we're paying attention to lore rather than whatever difficulty you played on.
- There was only one person fighting the Covenant, not four. And he happened to have extraordinary luck.
- He was also trained from six to fight specifically this force.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
The problem being that the Covenant lose even worse on the ground. The Imperial Guard generally have the resources and ability to wipe out anything the Covenant can throw at them. Particularly the tanks. Such as the Leman Russ for front line or the scarily accurate Basilisk. They even have dedicated air corps in Valkyries and Vendettas which drop off more units to help out flank. All of the Imperium's tanks tend to have better armor and weapons then anything seen from the Covenant.
Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2012-09-16, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Lies!
He was trained from six to fight rebels. The UNSC didn't even know the Covenant existed until after the Spartan IIs first couple of combat missions. Hell, the Mjolnir armour wasn't even developed until years after the war started and the shield generator addition came at basically the end of the war. Not that it matters, because the Covenant's ground forces are not sufficiently different from what the Imperium is used to that Space Marines would have trouble adapting. A single squad of Marines is going to curb-stomp the Covenant's ground forces just as hard as the Spartans do. Which is entirely irrelevent, because this versus is decided entirely in space, just as the UNSC-Covenant war was in every location except on a Halo array, which do not come into play by the stipulations of this versus matchup.
Daedalurker, away!Avatar by the wonderful SubLimePie. Former avatar by Andraste.
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2012-09-16, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Yeah, I kind of recalled after about five seconds that the Covenant didn't show up until about 2 years after he was deployed. Even then, his training shifted immediately to take them down. Also worthy of note is how the majority of the Spartan IIs and IIIs died.
Do they have active camo? Or what about the fact that the Covenant could have all their forces on the ground much sooner than the Imperium?
Also, you can't just say "the Imperium can beat the Covenant because they've got better stuff". Explain what weapons they have that are so much better than a bullet blocking sword and gravity field displacing hammer. Y'know, the incredibly easy to manufacture weapons of which the only restriction is whether or not you are allowed to hold one.Last edited by Triscuitable; 2012-09-16 at 05:19 PM.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-09-16, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: The Covenant (Halo) vs The Grand Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k)
Uh...ordinary metal swords can block bullets, depending on caliber. You just have to get the sword in the way of the bullet, and that's a question of reflexes, not weaponry. You hand a Grunt an energy sword and I doubt he's going to be going anything except dying, regardless of his weapon's bullet-blocking abilities.
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