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2012-10-12, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I agree with everything but the boots/regrowth comment. While boots are nice I find that regrowth first allows you to clear jungle once (wolves, blue, wraiths, wolves, red, golems) and return to base with just enough money for a philo stone and boots. This is best for slow start lanes like jax, cass, and other heroes that need skills to help your ganks.
Pick boots if you plan on doing a level 2 gank with some hyper agressive lane like a lee sin or leblanc but personally I like the regrowth start because of the lack of communication in solo que makes ganks more difficult.
Also, while most people say that ignoring E is good on skarner, If you mid lane is someone who doesn't want blue (vlad, akali, kennen or such) then I suggest getting one level of E at level 4 to help clear even faster and keep your health up. But again, this is very situational
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2012-10-12, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
This all sounds really good to me except the Sheen. In general on low-farm champions like junglers, it's better if you can build support-tank, and I would favor Aegis/Frozen Heart/Shurelia's over Sheen.
Keep in mind that rushing Shurelia's will make you somewhat weaker at the expense of strengthening your ganks and initiate. While you should probably get it, getting it first leaves you much more vulnerable to counterganks and weak in fights than, say, Frozen Heart.
Sheen->Triforce is probably decent as a 6th item, though.Avatar by Ava
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2012-10-12, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
On the topic of jungle, I normally go back with enough gold to buy HoG and finish my stone, and pick boots up on my second back.. Most of the champs I use to jungle have at least 1 skill to start a gank and so I find the extra good and HP more useful..
Just my opinion.DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
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2012-10-12, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Damage really isn't a primary or even a secondary concern on Skarner, and so while Triforce and Wit's End are nice they hardly ever take priority over Aegis, FH, or Shurelya's. Even then, they aren't always the best fifth and sixth items.
Edit
If you have *any* intention or expectation of ganking before the 4 or 5 minute mark, not only as Skarner but as almost every jungler in the game, you need to start boots. They're also the best starting item as far as clear time is concerned, so there's that.Last edited by ex cathedra; 2012-10-12 at 12:18 PM.
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2012-10-12, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Last edited by LordShotGun; 2012-10-12 at 01:06 PM.
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2012-10-12, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Well, it goes without saying that boots giving the fastest time to clear your route, but they don't decrease the amount of time your spending at any given camp.
And while it's quite possible I'm wrong, I would think that starting with a pendent over boots is much more gold efficient, which as a jungler seems like semi-big deal.
Also I mostly do solo queue, and ganking before your ult is up, or the laner's ult, generally seems to end the jungler dead, and both laners still alive. It's rare that I find a laner who will even attempt to help get that early kill unless they are pushed nearly all the back to their own tower. Instead they rather just passive farm as long as they can.DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
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2012-10-12, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Dunno about Nautilus but I just watched SaintVicious start boots + 3 on skarner and there is no way he could have ganked at level 4 with how he cleared his jungle. He had to go back to heal before trying a gank but if he had started regrowth then he could have ganked and possibly gotten lucky before going back.
Last edited by LordShotGun; 2012-10-12 at 01:52 PM.
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2012-10-12, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
So Captain Dire Smallpox of the Fifth Ebola Brigade is a pretty neat carry. I may scrape the 3150 IP together for him at some point.
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2012-10-12, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Right, it depends a lot on how much help I get on wolves/pull. I've had pulls where I didn't even need to pop a pot on wolves/Blue, which was awesome.
Once Nautilus hits level 2 or 3, he takes minimal damage from Wolves/Wraiths thanks to his shield and AoE clearing skills. His shield also gives him a little bit of health buffer when ganking.
Nautilus' level 3-4 ganks are pretty brutal with an inherent root on his auto-attack and a mini-hookshot and a slow. His level 6 ganks are even better with a targeted, ranged knock-up.Last edited by Joran; 2012-10-12 at 03:16 PM.
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2012-10-12, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Decided to take Twitch for a spin on Intermediate for once.
Spoiler
Did alright.
Edit: For reference's sake, Jax stole four kills from me, but I took one from him, so call it three.
More edit: Literally every death beyond the first was Crowstorm+CC.
Last edited by Cogwheel; 2012-10-12 at 03:17 PM.
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2012-10-12, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2012-10-12, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Question: I usually start cloth 5 on Skarner jungle. Is regrowth + pots better on him?
Also, to add to the Skarner discussion... Only take your E at lvl 13. Max Q, R whenever possible, and your W inbetween. It helps a lot with clear times and turns you into a ganking machine (hello Q slow...).
Now, I usually go cloth 5 and have never built regrowth pots, but from I'm hearing it would work, apparently. I go into a philo and boots, then hog, philo into Shureliya's, finish te boots, wit's end, glacial or Randuins depending on the situation, sheen, then finishing Randuins/frozen heart, and depending on how the game's going, possibly selling that Shureliya's for a super chalice.
Nautilus is almost the same, just swap Wit's end for Aegis and sheen for a phage (which you may want to build earlier). Piggy is built like Nautilus, just replace the mallet with an abyssal. They're generally the same in build, give or take a few items.I've started streaming again.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign outside of an abandoned mine, just as soon as a meteor storm from the moon hits.
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2012-10-12, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
At higher Elos, you need to be starting your aggression earlier than lvl 4 post-buy, especially on someone as powerful as Skarner is early game. If none of your lanes are open to early ganks, you should be looking to counter jungle if you can(against both early gank junglers and slow clear speed junglers). Boots facilitates this better, and if you're buying Philo+Boots on back either way, gp5-wise, it doesn't matter which way you start.
Also to the point, a boots-clear is *always* faster regrowth clear on any champ that can handle it(like Skarner), due to the MS letting you get to camps faster. This is even more crucial in counter-jungling paths, since that MS can mean the difference between getting away free and clear and getting caught.
1.Appreciate knowing I'm roughly in line with you on this.
2.Eh, everyone I hear using Sheen on Skarner never gets the Triforce, except maybe as a 6th item.
3.I admit that the "when to get Shurelya's" question is one that should be answered game-to-game, since even on Skarner, sometimes, you need to hold the Philo for a while.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-10-12, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Last edited by Joran; 2012-10-12 at 03:28 PM.
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2012-10-12, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-10-12, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-10-12, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
New infographic.
Gotta love how the ">90% of players are male" shows Kayle's helmet. Not sure how they know the info for that section though.
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2012-10-12, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
It doesn't really matter whether you take a camp earlier due to reaching the camp more quickly or killing it more quickly. In both cases the camp begins respawning earlier than it would have otherwise. The faster you clear the jungle the earlier your juungle begins replenishing itself. In effect, faster junglers have *more jungle* to farm than slow junglers. Don't underestimate boots.
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2012-10-12, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
To contribute further to the Skarner discussion I have a few more tips.
When ulting someone, at the end of your ult turn your Champion Model around. Skarner carries the victim on his tail, if you turn around you can get extra distance at the end.
Skarner Q slow proc doesn't care if it hits champions or minions. You can Q minions as you approach the enemy champion. That way when you get to the enemy champion your first Q on them slows.
Tips that are more obvious:
Runes I run the standard MS Jungle Page.
Masteries- Mostly Defense and utility. 16 in defense recommended, as well as MS in utility/defense. I run 2/16/12 or 0/21/9 usually.
For items I'm gonna list a set of viable items.
Core: Boots, HoG, Philo Stone, Glacial Shroud.
You will build your core items in pretty much every game.
Good items:Frozen Heart, Randuins, Aegis, Wits End, Reverie, GA.
Sometimes build these:Banshee's Veil, Warmogs, Zeke's, Tri-Force (never early), Boots of Mobility, Force of Nature, Will of the Ancients (Your ryze is megafed and you haven't been doing anything in fights), Abyssal Scepter.
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2012-10-12, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Apparently not, cause it needed to be said. Also, what's your point? We're not comparing boots with anything that does decrease time spent at a given camp, so that's irrelevant to the comparison.
Its 70g more efficient in terms of HP pots not bought. However, if it costs you 1 failed kill during a gank, or 1 death from not being able to run away, that's costing you at *LEAST* 300g in death gold, not to mention time wasted.
And then there's the fact that since the boots start is faster, camps are respawning earlier, and thus, you're farming faster overall, there's another gold increase from the boots start, albeit a somewhat intangible one.
*SOMEONE* is doing it wrong if you're never seeing successful lvl 4 ganks. And a successful gank can be as minor as simply blowing flash with minimal cost to your laner, allowing him to be more aggressive knowing his opponent simply can't commit as strongly anymore.
Also, not only should lvl 4 ganks be common, but lvl 2 and 3 ganks should be popping up on some junglers, such as Shaco, Lee Sin, Jarvan, and possibly Alistar. Hell, Skarner is one of the junglers who can do the wolves>blue>their red>gank path really well.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-10-12, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Its 70g more efficient in terms of HP pots not bought. However, if it costs you 1 failed kill during a gank, or 1 death from not being able to run away, that's costing you at *LEAST* 300g in death gold, not to mention time wasted.
And then there's the fact that since the boots start is faster, camps are respawning earlier, and thus, you're farming faster overall, there's another gold increase from the boots start, albeit a somewhat intangible one.
*SOMEONE* is doing it wrong if you're never seeing successful lvl 4 ganks. And a successful gank can be as minor as simply blowing flash with minimal cost to your laner, allowing him to be more aggressive knowing his opponent simply can't commit as strongly anymore.
Also, not only should lvl 4 ganks be common, but lvl 2 and 3 ganks should be popping up on some junglers, such as Shaco, Lee Sin, Jarvan, and possibly Alistar. Hell, Skarner is one of the junglers who can do the wolves>blue>their red>gank path really well.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-10-12, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Thanks for the Skarner discussion. Been quite helpful.
You can eventually convert that Cloth armor into Frozen Heart or Aegis (or Tabi if you're really lucky), but Cloth start is essentially the 'safe farm' start in contrast to Boots ganking start, and Regrowth is almost as safe as Cloth while accelerating your mana regen, which is a major limiting factor for Skarner. So I would take Regrowth in a situation where you normally take Cloth, and Boots otherwise.Last edited by Math_Mage; 2012-10-12 at 04:57 PM.
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2012-10-12, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Exactly. I don't think people realize that is impossible to completely clear the jungle as skarner with boots+ 3 and stay at a health that enables ganking. You would either have to skip some jungle in order to gank (thus exchanging certain creep gold for uncertain kill gold) or start regen + 1 and take all the creep gold and have the possibility of perhaps getting a lucky gank before going base.
So either way you have to go base before you gank if you clear the entire jungle.
Again, let me make clear that this is for skarner ONLY, champions like Chogath or lee sin always want boots since they can sustain much better then skarner.
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2012-10-12, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Which isn't really a problem, since the effective health difference between a Regrowth+1 start and a boots+3 start is only ~60hp over the course of the first clear. If you were low with the boots start, you'd still be low with the regrowth, only now you'd be more vunlerable, since you're slower, and less likely to get away(1 auto from the invader negates the entire health bonus from Regrowth).
Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-10-12, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Does anyone remember Skarner's basic clear time off of the top of their heads?
Because it doesn't take much to realize that Regrowth+1 doesn't actually offer that much more HP than boots+3 immediately after your initial clear.
It's pretty simple. Regrowth pendant offers 3 HP/second. However, you have two health potions less than the boots start jungler. At 150 HP a pop, that's a 300 HP deficit that Regrowth has to make up. At 3 HP/second, it takes Regrowth Pendant 1 minute and 40 seconds to break even with the boots start in terms of HP and that's assuming that you're always at less than full HP and thus benefiting from the regen. Since Regrowth doesn't kick in until you start taking damage, and in a normal jungle scenario you'll never start taking damage until 1:40, you aren't actually any safer in terms of straight HP until 3 minutes and 20 seconds into the game. Even then, you aren't significantly ahead of the boots start until the 4 minute mark, and while you're marginally more capable of ganking with safe HP after your initial clear you're significantly less capable of ganking in the first place. Bootsless Skarner doesn't scare anyone.Last edited by ex cathedra; 2012-10-12 at 05:37 PM.