League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut

[TechnOkami]

Inspired by a recent LoL music video, I've been playing lots of Crit Runes Gangplank recently. It is insanely hilarious. Anyone not Riven or Jax will eventually succumb to the red numbers of doom.

I too have been on a recent Gangplank splurge, and I highly enjoy the Pirate. Perhaps not Crit Runes Gangplank, but Gangplank nonetheless.

[Tergon]

Aaaah, the glorious sensation of winning a 4v5.

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Our Singed disconnected in and out for the first 5-10 minutes before permanently poofing. I was laning bot with Miss Fortune, giving her all of the creep kills against Twitch and Mundo. This would have been a sound strategy and done okay had Singed remained in the game, but then by the twenty minute mark I'd spent all my gold on wards and potions to counter Twitch, and only had a few items. I was also suddenly the closest thing we had to a tank, and with the lineup against us I had to fill the role.

But, a few lucky grabs make the difference, and our MF was very good, as was our Xin. We could turn a teamfight into a 4v4 with one grab from me to initiate it, and with balanced odds we started winning the straight fights. Eventually a battle mid let us take down Zilean and Mundo, and we pushed straight through the inhibitor into their Nexus for the win.

Just one of those really, really great games.

[NineThePuma]

Syndra really really has a stupidly high skill floor.

[PersonMan]

Syndra really really has a stupidly high skill floor.

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

[Talesin]

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

I've interpreted it as needing a lot of basic mechanics down before you can play a charatcer to a 'viable' level. Ie you need to climb a long way before you pass the skill floor and are then in the place where you can play the champion 'well'.

So someone like Annie has a relatively low skill floor as you just need to work out how to use the passive effectively. Compared to someone like Brand or Cass where you need to combo abilities together to get max damage, and also blow your ult when they are facing you in Cass' case.

In Syndra's case its things like putting the balls in the right place, positioning yourself to land the stun on as many targets as possible while keeping as many balls in play at once so you can land your ult as/when you desire. So using your full kit is hard because there are so many things to think about. Going back to Annie you've just got to get your stun up and then land Q, W or R and then you can unleash full damage on to 1 person.

Obviously its not as simple with Annie as i'm making it out but that's the part between the skill floor and skill ceiling

[Forrestfire]

Unless I've misunderstood the usage of the term, that means that she's incredibly easy to use and is very powerful even when played by people without much skill.

Which goes against everything I've heard and experienced about Syndra. Ever.

No, it means the skill floor, the minimum skill level needed to player her, is incredibly high.

[PersonMan]

No, it means the skill floor, the minimum skill level needed to player her, is incredibly high.

Ah, I've been misinterpreting it, then. I overlapped it with 'champ effectiveness floor/ceiling'.

[Nadevoc]

There's just this super wrong feeling of having one ability unupgraded.

So they did limit it to three upgrade points? Awesome. I saw the idiea, and was really hoping they'd limit it so your choices still matter even end game. I like the idea of being able to customize a character to suit the matchup, but then being locked in to it.

[Forrestfire]

So they did limit it to three upgrade points? Awesome. I saw the idiea, and was really hoping they'd limit it so your choices still matter even end game. I like the idea of being able to customize a character to suit the matchup, but then being locked in to it.

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

...that's the best hidden passive in the game. The others are minor (as in only 1-2 points) of damage or movement speed...this one has the potential to actually be game-changing.

RARE, but game-changing.

[PersonMan]

Supposedly he has a hidden passive that if he pentakills, he gets an extra upgrade point.

I'm surprised nobody has set up a 5v1 premade and fed the guy a penta just to find out.

[Eldariel]

It actually reads cleaner if we assume Eld was talking about Jayce's shred, though.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Teron about the overstatement of the conflict between flat and percentage pen. I mean, c'mon, flat pen's got increasing returns on your investment.

Yup, this is correct. I read it as penetration, not shred. This actually makes Brutalizer/Youmuu's an interesting option, much like on Monkey & J4. Hmm...

I find generally that if I'm losing lane as Jayce, it's not because I'm not winning trades but because I'm running out of mana; he can turn mana into free damage with ranged EQ, so I like the Philo for lane dominance.

I can see a build that wants to focus on pure combat strength, and use W hammer passive for mana sustain. His AD scaling actually seems not that good to me, so I'd probably just rush either Glacial Shroud or Hexdrinker, depending on damage type of my lane opponent. Maybe an early vamp scepter, too, to compensate for the sustain lost without early Shurelia's.

Yeah, the build I was playing with right now was simply Phage -> FH/Hexdrinker/Aegis and eventually Trinity/Last Whisper. I did not consider Zeke's on him since his personal damage is so ability-heavy but I could see it being decent; I was running 14/16/0 Masteries and AD/Armor/CDR/MR runes so I was hitting 40% CDR (well, 38%) with just FH.

Laudandus' build is fairly similar to what I've been using myself mostly (and since Jayce came out he has probably been my most played champion).

I used to start with Philo Stone (into Shurelya's later), and then get Trinity Force, Frozen Heart, Maw of Malmortius and Last Whisper, in varying order depending on the game. Ninja Tabi or Merc Treads for boots, as the opposition demanded.

I've found though that I was very often winning my lane hard early on, often denying or zoning my lane opponent to a large degree, and Philo Stone didn't give me enough direct combat power to snowball this lead into even more dominance, so if I went Philo Stone and my opponent went for combat items, that would give them a chance to get back into the game. I've therefore started to skip the Philo Stone and instead get Zeke's Herald at some point.

Essentially, I believe CDR is absolutely crucial on Jayce (if nothing else, one wants to be able to switch forms as often as possible), and his base numbers are good enough that damage is generally a secondary concern; tankiness and utility are usually preferable.

Hm. Yeah, it's an interesting question. Feels like he really has multiple equally strong builds; after rereading his ulti passive it appears an ArPen build would be pretty strong actually, and he has both, tanky and squishy options for CDR.

[Eurus]

...that's the best hidden passive in the game. The others are minor (as in only 1-2 points) of damage or movement speed...this one has the potential to actually be game-changing.

RARE, but game-changing.

That's why I'm rather inclined to not believe it without proof, heh.

[NineThePuma]

Sadly, the PBE is currently experiencing too much use, so I can't test it myself.

[MCerberus]

I too have been on a recent Gangplank splurge, and I highly enjoy the Pirate. Perhaps not Crit Runes Gangplank, but Gangplank nonetheless.

The Gangplank run I'm on is Bankplank/Tankplank, who is a Critplank as well!

[ex cathedra]

He has a percentage reduction, actually, which means it's applied before any kind of penetration. Since armour negation gets more efficient the more you have, Youmuu's actually synergizes with Jayce's ultimate. For the same reason, the conflict between flat and percentage reduction/penetration is vastly overstated.

It's reallly just flat and percentage penetration that are problematic, since each percentage point of % pen lowers your effective flat pen by the same percentage. LW reducing your flat ArPen by an additional 36% is pretty huge.

[Zen Master]

Hm.

I'm a little unsure about this new champ. I mean, LoL already has a lictor champion, I can't see how it really needs another one.

Kha'Zix looks like he should have been a new skin for Cho'Gath. The abilities look cool though.

[NineThePuma]

As someone who dedicated a significant chunk of his struggle from level 1 to 30 to cho, Kha'Zix plays VERY VERY differently from Cho. It'd be like comparing Akali to Kennen.

Well, not exactly, but you get the general point; they're not remotely similar in play style, despite being visually and lore wise, similar.

Laning Kha'Zix wants top, wants to harass a whole lot, and then close that gap and turn it into a kill the second an enemy's low and isn't standing pretty much on top of a minion wave.

Laning Cho'Gath gives virtually zero craps about the enemy, and chases them off through liberal use of spells, with his Ult being reserved as either a killing blow or used to build up his stacks. He doesn't have any inbuilt escapes, so he's kind of iffy top, but he works out alright mid.


Visually, yes, I can see how you'd link him with cho. In practice, I don't have any idea who to compare him to. He's this bizarre mishmash of characters, to be honest. He definitely suffers from AD Caster Itemization Syndrome, and while AP isn't totally wasted on him, his AP scaling is really not all that good.

(I've been playing him in ARAMs, Maxing W, rushing ghost blade, and stacking AD; I use him as a mobile artillery platform; sadly, even at max rank with 40% CDR, his W's cool down is too long to do a massive bombardment for zoning purposes, but it's really good at clearing waves.)

[tyckspoon]

Hm.

I'm a little unsure about this new champ. I mean, LoL already has a lictor champion, I can't see how it really needs another one.

Kha'Zix looks like he should have been a new skin for Cho'Gath. The abilities look cool though.

I'd place Cho more as a Carnifex, with the whole HUGE and STOMPY and UNSTOPPABLE and COMING FOR YOU AAAAAAHHH thing.

[Zen Master]

I'd place Cho more as a Carnifex, with the whole HUGE and STOMPY and UNSTOPPABLE and COMING FOR YOU AAAAAAHHH thing.

Hm yea - tank vs assasin, I guess you're right. Still, they are too closely related for my tastes. Soon, we'll have the whole tyranid playlist (well - not that soon, I guess, but still).

[LordShotGun]

So I tried ranked today.

(Solo Que Horror Story inside containing a gunblade chogath)

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Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. First and only game we get a guy asking for rammus bans. This sets off a little light in my head saying "DANGER DANGER" but I ignore it and that guy and do not ban rammus. I play kennen versus Cass mid.

That same guy calls jungle and picked cho'gath. Alright no big deal cho is pretty good at jungle. About ten minutes into the game this guy have ganks zero times and out top lane was getting denied hard (garen versus diana).

I didn't need any help mid as I got first blood and 2 other kills when later the jungle maokia dived me and I just flashed into tower and stunned him.

So I tell him to go help top. He tells me to f*** off. Alright so he is a little hostile, ok no big deal it happens, maybe he is having a bad day.

So our top garen versus diana is half her CS and down 2 kills. Despite this he manages to be more helpful then cho'gath the entire rest of the game.

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

Anyway it is now 30 minutes in and I died a few times to diana coming to mid. Our bot lane is doing ok (sona and corki versus nunu kogma) but between diana and maokia jumping our corki, he never really does anything and the enemy kog cleans up.

After trying to talk to him about his build he just starts verbally attacking me in all chat. Even the enemy team got angry at this guy.

So we go from a 12-5 lead at 20 mins to 29-37 by the end of the game.

After game I try to explain to the guy how to build cho jungle but he repeatedly said that his "2000 elo friend riot" always wins with this build.



THREE WINS

He got to level 30 playing bot games nearly exclusively and then went straight into ranked.

So nah I think I will stick with normals for now.

[Dada]

Don't judge solo queue (and ranked) on a single game. This is the whole reason for the elo hell myth and people complaining about their rating. Elo does not measure your performance in a game, but your performance over a (large) amount of games. Sometimes you will get that gunblade cho, sometimes he will be on the opposing team, and once he and you have played enough games, your elo difference will be large enough that you won't encounter him anymore. With that said, solo queue can definitely be a disheartening an frustrating experience. Don't play it if you don't enjoy it.

On a slightly related note, I am starting to believe in elo hell. Not in the traditional elo hell where it is impossible to get elo due to stupid teammates, but in a rating where it feels like most of the games are decided not by good play, but simply by more or less random throws. I have recently dropped 200ish elo (from 1600 to 1400), which I kinda deserve since I play way worse that I did when I got to 1600. Down in the low 1400s though, it feels like most games (like 75% or so) are decided by afks, leaves, solo adventures in the unwarded enemy jungle, or some guy not understanding that you should not engage on your lane opponent(s) when you are down 3 kills and 2 levels. Am I the only one experiencing this? I kinda feel like it shouldn't be true and that I am falling into some fallacy.

[PhoeKun]

So I tried ranked today.

(Solo Que Horror Story inside containing a gunblade chogath)

Spoiler

Show

Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. First and only game we get a guy asking for rammus bans. This sets off a little light in my head saying "DANGER DANGER" but I ignore it and that guy and do not ban rammus. I play kennen versus Cass mid.

That same guy calls jungle and picked cho'gath. Alright no big deal cho is pretty good at jungle. About ten minutes into the game this guy have ganks zero times and out top lane was getting denied hard (garen versus diana).

I didn't need any help mid as I got first blood and 2 other kills when later the jungle maokia dived me and I just flashed into tower and stunned him.

So I tell him to go help top. He tells me to f*** off. Alright so he is a little hostile, ok no big deal it happens, maybe he is having a bad day.

So our top garen versus diana is half her CS and down 2 kills. Despite this he manages to be more helpful then cho'gath the entire rest of the game.

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

Anyway it is now 30 minutes in and I died a few times to diana coming to mid. Our bot lane is doing ok (sona and corki versus nunu kogma) but between diana and maokia jumping our corki, he never really does anything and the enemy kog cleans up.

After trying to talk to him about his build he just starts verbally attacking me in all chat. Even the enemy team got angry at this guy.

So we go from a 12-5 lead at 20 mins to 29-37 by the end of the game.

After game I try to explain to the guy how to build cho jungle but he repeatedly said that his "2000 elo friend riot" always wins with this build.



THREE WINS

He got to level 30 playing bot games nearly exclusively and then went straight into ranked.

So nah I think I will stick with normals for now.

Just as a minor clerical note, in ranked score screens, the number of wins displayed is wins in Ranked, not overall wins. Frankly more disturbing are the games where you see people behaving as badly or worse than you described, and you get the end of the game and find out they have 750 wins.

How on earth do you convince yourself to queue up for the exact same elo over and over and over again that many times without ever getting better? Even if you think you're stuck in elo hell, surely you should have either given up or quit and made a smurf a good 300 games back?

[PersonMan]

Why?

CHO
BUILT
GUNBLADE
FIRST

At first I thought it was just a troll but the guy adamantly insisted that he got "tons of kills" with it.

He was obviously Doing It Wrong, because Gunblade is the first big item in my Pain'Gath build if I'm doing well. It's really only a good option if you're stomping the opposition and know you will keep doing so, though.

It's less 'omg this Cho's build is bad' and more like 'this Cho is playing badly and using a build in a game it isn't really appropriate in', IMO. Pain'Gath is basically based on the following assumptions:

-Your HP makes the enemy unable to kill you quickly
-Your damage is killing enemies quickly

The whole point of Pain'Gath is that you use the free HP you get to tank the enemy's low damage (they've been denied by you all game, how could that have good damage?) without defensive items and build pure damage to keep crushing them. In an ideal situation you do this until they /ff. Late game you'd probably need to trade out your items for more normal ones because you'll need defenses beyond runes/masteries and free HP as the enemies catch up.

General Ranked Stuff, not really directly related to this:

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I personally only play Ranked when I'm in a 5-man or when a friend of mine says 'hey let's duo queue Ranked', because the only difference between it and normal, in my experience, is:

-Draft mode (I normally play blind pick)
-Rage is more common if you're losing
-People react worse to unusual decisions

I do think this is in part because my normal ELO could be higher than my Ranked one and I can understand why some people want a 'this is competitive mode, get your game on!' play type, though.

[LordShotGun]

The whole point of Pain'Gath is that you use the free HP you get to tank the enemy's low damage (they've been denied by you all game, how could that have good damage?) without defensive items and build pure damage to keep crushing them. In an ideal situation you do this until they /ff. Late game you'd probably need to trade out your items for more normal ones because you'll need defenses beyond runes/masteries and free HP as the enemies catch up.

It was a jungle cho that never ganked. So no denying was going on and the lack of lane farm makes it impossible.

[PersonMan]

It was a jungle cho that never ganked. So no denying was going on and the lack of lane farm makes it impossible.

Hence my 'he was using the build when he shouldn't have been' comment. I was just commenting that the build itself is fine...as long as the right circumstances are there.

It's like building Thornmail when the enemy team is 5 AP. It doesn't make Thornmail a bad item, it's just the wrong choice that game.

[ex cathedra]

Thornmail is a bad item, though.

[MCerberus]

Thornmail is a bad item, though.

It does have its uses, or, as one of its biggest proponents would say, "Okay..."

[Dada]

There are so many good armor items out there, however, that even Rammus should probably stay away from Thornmail except for in extreme cases.

[Joran]

There are so many good armor items out there, however, that even Rammus should probably stay away from Thornmail except for in extreme cases.

But can you put a price on "Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself" ;)