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2013-01-08, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Selinia isn't having trouble with the concept of the empath, the class is just really big.
Reaaaally big.
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2013-01-08, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Wordcats
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Well, that really is what happens when you decide to go for that scale of Aspects.
Empath is - I believe - almost done. Just needs full writeup. Which Selinia is getting done.
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2013-01-08, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
::Shrug::
This is what happens when I get interested in homebrew. I add to it.
Either Selinia likes my suggestion (it could easily just be a 4th class as well, I very nearly tossed out the moon references and left it referring to the 'light of life') or not. I leave my version there for people to critique or consider as they wish.
Also, since Snowfire's latest game is using this homebrew right now, I thought it would be nice if the 3rd base class were available while people were still creating characters.Last edited by kestrel404; 2013-01-08 at 01:11 PM.
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2013-01-08, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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2013-01-08, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Nice class, one small nitpick - evokers tend to get "/enc" abilities, rather than "/day".
Also, on Lunar Spirits... on the first read, I somehow though they retain their silver-misty appearance at all times, and my first though was less Pokemon, more "Expecto... PATRONUM!" Which is nice by itself, I have to say)Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.
"Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)
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2013-01-10, 03:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Central Florida, USA
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
So, building a character for Snow's game.
It seems odd that the most melee-y of the classes can't extend their own buffs- or even do anything but apply the most basic form of buffs.
I'd expect Champions to at least get some form of secondary effect aside from range increasing.
EDIT: and de-aggroing, I mean.Last edited by The-Mage-King; 2013-01-10 at 03:19 AM.
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2013-01-22, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
I had an idea:
Having finally watched Madoka, and seeing the... distinct fighting style therein (summoning disposables), I realized that there was another way to handle the massive amounts of weapons currently unusable:
There are rules for volley archery, right? Basically makes it an AoE?
Why not implement that?
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2013-01-22, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Last edited by sreservoir; 2013-01-22 at 09:40 PM.
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2013-01-22, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- The Southern Wildlands
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Change that word. For all that is good and holy, change that word.
What ever made you think that making that contraction was a good idea.Last edited by Draken; 2013-01-22 at 09:38 PM.
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2013-01-22, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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2013-01-22, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
...
Oooooohhh...
Okay, now it makes more sense.
Except I still have no idea what you're talking about.
But yeah.
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2013-01-22, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Cones are fun.
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2013-01-22, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- The Southern Wildlands
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
He is talking about making an illumination using the Cone blast shape and fluffing it as a hail of arrows/bullets/ducks at your preference.
That is the point of the illumination crafting system. It is not just supposed to craft the mechanics, you are also supposed to craft the visuals, preferably within a theme specific to the character.
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2013-01-22, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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2013-01-23, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Usaki City, Syona
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
I used 5ft bursts of Battles to create an AC bonus for my magical centaur and her rider. ^^
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2013-02-07, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
So. I'm still here. A busy schedule, combined with biting off waaaaay more than I could properly chew led to me falling much further behind with this project than I'd like. There is... a ton I need to respond to in this thread since my last update, including a lot of really solid ideas and input. I'll be getting to those.
But for now, rather than delay it further, a rather simple changelog I think everyone here has been waiting on for entirely too long:
- Empath Base Class added!
Was it worth the wait, and the (frankly, staggering) amount of time and effort I dumped into it? I have no clue. This class taught me a few extremely important things about tempering my ambitions into something reasonable, but the byproduct was something... that I think I can safely say is unique, even within this subsystem.
Having this done is an enormous relief - the greatest remaining gap in the Tome of Radiance is filled. I got in way over my head and gave myself a positively miserable time by sticking to an idea that was originally just fancy, but I like to think that the finished product was worth the wait.
Questions, comments, and suggestions are - as usual - more than welcome. Just having this monster of a project done and downed is invigorating, and I'm enormously looking forward to resuming my regular updates here.Lovely Rita Mordio avatar by Zefir! Thank you!
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2013-02-07, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
I would just like to say that you're awesome, and I'm glad you're back.
I'll read through the Empath in a moment.
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2013-02-07, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
OK, I am a bit confused... Empath table has a columns for Personas Known and Persona Capacity, yet I don't see any explanation of how it works... I can assume that Personas Known is the number of different Personas an Empath can have by this level, and Capacity is the number of aspects each Persona can include, but would love the clarification. Also, do aspects have to be selected at the levels they are gained? For example, Empath gains Lesser Aspects at level 5; is it possible to, at level 3, leave the aspect slot you gain empty, and then fill it with a Lesser aspect at Level 5?
Also, the description mentions Aspects grant Empaths the ability to wield Illuminations (and Moonlight Apotheosis specifically mentions Illumination lists not stacking), but what are these Illumination lists?
Also, if you have several aspects that boost the same save, do they stack? I 'm afraid having 7 "+1/3 levels" bonuses to the same save is a bit out of hand :-)Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.
"Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)
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2013-02-07, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
@Jamieth: Persona Capacity is the number of Illuminations that each Persona has. You craft the Illuminations normally and assign them to each individual Persona. I got a bit confused too, haha. :3
@Selinia: This will always be one of my favorite Homebrews ever. And it's awesomeness is now through the moon. Not the roof - it went through that way long ago! :3
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2013-02-07, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Ah, I see. So, then every Persona has one Aspect selected as it (persona) is gained? OK, much more manageable :-) (and saves max out at +12 with persona boost, just a point shy of a good progression. Still terrible saves at the low levels, you're stuck with three +0's at the Level 1 no matter how you spec... but that's an issue with the way saves work in d20 inn general.). Does that mean that every Persona has all the Illuminations assigned to it available at all times?
Nice! Also, Lain might provide the quote, but for me, it would always be a "Hinamori Amu" class.
Also, at the subject of Selinia's awesomeness - I left that out of my post, feeling that stating the obvious serves little practical purpose :-)Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.
"Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)
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2013-02-07, 03:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
If you want the saves to work out a bit more evenly, how about the personas granting +2, +1 at 2nd and every 6 levels thereafter? It's a lot closer to the usual good save progression from 1st through 20th (and even more so beyond, although it shouldn't actually progress beyond 20th due to epic save bonuses). Or, just use the same mechanics for base saves that personas already use for base attack bonus (switching your Empath BAB to work with a different class's progression), which would be even more consistent, both mechanically and numerically.
I'm still reading through all of the different persona abilities, but everything looks good so far. Awesome as always.
Have you ever tried building a character using these classes? I usually find that making a character is a great way to identify a lot of issues that my homebrew has that I may have missed over the course of writing it. Even without actually playing the character through anything, building one is a great way to approach the same ideas from a different and necessary perspective.A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
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2013-02-07, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Well, there was at least a couple of campaings using these classes already (sans Empath, obviously), I applied to one featuring a gestalt characters with one Evoker side though my Catgirl Champion/Barbarian didn't make the cut. I also playtested a couple of Magical Girls through a goblin raid on Sandpoint in the very beginnning of the Rise of the Runelords. Commando really was a tough one, but, 1. there was only 2 PCs instead of four, and, 2. Champion never rolled anything over 8 on her attacks... and the Commando nat-20'ed the save against the one AoE I had. They still managed to persevere through :-)
Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.
"Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)
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2013-02-07, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Yes, "Persona Capacity" definitely has to be defined somewhere.
Also, you should clarify what happens to persistent Persona-powers if you dismiss that Persona. For example, whether the Mindlink formed by The Lovers stays active if you switch into some other Persona.
In addition, it might be good to rework the way saves work.
Change the table to say "Good Saves" and "Bad Saves", and then just have Aspects say "These saves become Good saves".
Works much better - the save progression will be equal to that of everyone else, and it needs less math to boot.
Other than that, well done :D
And i'd like to note that an Empath will have a HUGE selection of effectively-readied Illuminations, which will give them a lot of flexibility :)LGBTitP
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2013-02-07, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Typos found in Empath:
Races: Members of any race can take up the mantle of a stargazer (copy/paste error)
Other comments:
Overall an interesting class, but unbalanced (in comparison to the other two).
First, while the class starts out with 2 illuminations (painfully few), it ends up with 42 (effectively readied!). This is almost twice as many readied illuminations as a Stargazer has known.
The personas themselves are underpowered, having only a single ability (besides BAB/Save buffs, which are kind of a pain to track in combat if you're switching madly between them).
To balance the class, I'd change the Persona Capacity as follows:
Starts at 2, +1 at level 8 & 16. You start with as many 'readied' illuminations as a Champion, and in the end you know fewer Illuminations total than the Stargazer (24 vs 25 @ level 20), but you can acces any of them with a swift action.
Then I'd add a bit more to some of the aspects to make your 'class feature' more interesting. Balance them along the lines of Vestiges (Binder, Tome of Magic) - while you end up getting more at once in the long term (6 vs 4) and you get Illuminations besides, the ones you choose are permanent and you don't get any more. So, each one should really be a bit less powerful than a Vestige.
I'll add suggestions on the aspects themselves in a bit.
Here's how I'd add to the aspects:
LeastSpoilerThese should get some abilities that either level up well or else remain relevant regardless of level, so that the least aspects actually see use beyond illumination capacity at later levels.
The Fool - Add evasion & weapon finesse.
The Magician - This is a creater of things, not a wielder of magic (at least no more so than any other aspect). Add Trapfinding and grant a bonus to search and knowledge(architecture & eng) checks as well - creating mundane items is nice and all, but Shapesand is better and only costs GP.
The High Priestess - Since this is a defensive aspect have all good saves, and change skill bonus from Balance (?) to Spellcraft (for identifying the spell to be countered, which is step one of counterspelling). Otherwise great.
The Empress - Add status effect removal (see Pathfinder's Paladin).
The Emperor - Nice, I like the mind-effect reversal! I'd add Combat Expertise, with a note that you qualify as having Combat Expertise (and 13 int) at all times when qualifying for feats when you take this mantle.
The Hierophant - I like it, but I'd add a mass fascinate at level 12 (fascinate up to class level targets at once), and add bonuses to Bluff skill as well.
LesserSpoilerYou only ever get one lesser aspect, and it comes at the level where most heroes grow up from 'gawky' to 'heroic'. This is when your people should start to become capable of things like flight and +Stat to damage and creating zombie minions.
Lovers - Grants proficiency with all martial ranged weapons, and the ability to deal non-lethal damage at range with weapons. May also spend up to 1/2 class level (round up) in motes when using a ranged weapon to add 1d6 non-lethal damage per mote.
Chariot - While awesome, this is a 'combat aspect' with no combat abilities. Add a fly speed equal to base land speed with Perfect maneuverability, fly speed doubles at level 12. Also add the Flyby attack feat.
Strength - I expected this to be in some way related to combat, but leadership/fortitude is also appropriate. However, the aspect is far too situational and rather underpowered in comparison (aside from healing ability burn, you can accomplish the same with scrolls/wands easily). All good saves, full BAB, add in a 30' aura of Death Ward (constant), and an advancing DR N/- (1/4 levels should do).
The Hermit - I'm tempted not to mess with this, as it's a VERY handy utility/divination aspect. However, since I'm boosting all the other aspects, give this aspect Knowledge Devotion.
The Wheel of Fortune - OK, that's unique. And potent. And as a PC I'd love it and hate it. ...And it still needs a bit more to be on par with the others. How about 1/encounter (i.e. 5 minute rest), after rolling a D20 but before finding out if you succeeded or failed, you may immediately re-roll (like having a 1/encounter luck blade). This is not quite as potent as Balam's (5th level vestige) re-roll ability so should be good for a Lesser aspect.
Last edited by kestrel404; 2013-02-07 at 11:32 AM.
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2013-02-07, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Hm, I'm under the impression that you only have 1 aspect active at once, 2 with Apotheosis...
Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.
"Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)
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2013-02-07, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
When you can switch between them with a swift action, they are effectively simultaneous. You just don't get all the bonuses at the same time.
Edit: And here's the rest of my ideas.
GreaterSpoilerOnce again, you only get one of these.
Justice - While nicely in-theme, I'm not seeing any real utility for this aspect at all. Mark of Justice is incredibly situational (it's got a 10 minute casting time, and the target must be restrained or willing), easily cast from a scroll or by an NPC, and while good for punishing the enemy is not especially good for ensuring Justice. I'm going to go for a complete change here. Instead of Mark of Justice, you get a constant Zone of Truth effect (DC of 10+1/2 level+wis) that affects you & allies as well, Know Alignment, and Smite Opposition (as smite evil, but works against anyone who's alignment is at least 2 steps from your own). Smite Opposition may be used 3/encounter, and is based on Wis mod instead of cha. Additional uses of smite at levels 15 & 20. Also grants the Tracking & City Tracking feats and +wis to survival & gather information checks.
The Hanged Man - Interesting ability. I would add that any illuminations that deal damage used while in the Hanged Man aspect may be enhanced to also deal 1d4 points of ability damage to an ability of the empaths choice. At 15th level, this increases to 2d4 points of ability damage, and at 20th level 3d4. This ability may be used once per minute.
Death - That's a really nifty thing. Deathly healing. Change the good save to Fort (more thematic). Have the minute timer on the negative levels reset whenever they get hit by this again (otherwise, you're capped at -10 levels if you hit with 10 consecutive touch attacks), and anyone killed by this power is raised as a shadow under the Empath's control (as the Shadowdancer class feature). The empath may control a number of such shadows up to their wis mod at any time. The number of negative levels this power bestows when used increases to 2 at 14th level, and 3 at 18th. At 16th level, those killed by the power become Greater Shadows instead.
Temperance - OK, this, right here, is the only power really worth taking at this level as written. I add nothing to it. It's good just where it is.
The Devil - While sloth is one possible interpretation of the devil, I've always considdered it a representation of self-harm and mental issues. I'd add the ability to use Dominate Person 1/encounter, with no more than Wis Mod dominated at a time.
SublimeSpoilerWell, technically you get two of these, though the second one is at 20th level. This is where I'd put the really niche/specialty abilities, while still making the powers of a level potent enough to keep up with 7th & 8th level spells.
The Tower - Wow, this is kind of painful to use - you take 50% more damage! To balance it out, you should grant Level*Wis Mod additional (max, not temp) HP while using this aspect. Yes, this means that switching out could kill you. Also grants the Blade of Blood spell at-will.
The Sun - Also grants immunity to one of the following elements when manifested: Fire, Cold, Electricity, Sonic, Force (acid is deliberately not on that list). As a standard action, you may make a breath weapon attack by spending up to your class level in motes. You deal 1d8 damage + 1d8/2 motes spent to a 60' cone (reflex half) of the energy type to which you're immune. Cannot be used again for 1d4 rounds.
The Moon - Alter self at will to any Humanoid, monstrous humanoid, animal or magical animal (regardless of HD). Only lasts while using this aspect. (For Pathfinder equivalent, you get Alter Self, Monstrous Physique II, and Beast Shape III)
The Star - You also gain Regen 5, bypassed by cold iron, as well as a constant Sanctuary (as the cleric spell) effect with a will Save DC equal to 10 + 1/2 class level + wis mod.
Judgment - This one is almost good enough, but replace see invis with true seeing. Also, a number of times per day equal to her Wis Mod, may cast Clairvoyance - must target a person, and that person get a clairvoyance to you. Any magical means that would prevent the Clairvoyance from happening prevents both connections.
Well, that's a quick attempt at re-balancing so that all the options are good ones. Hope you take some of my suggestions.Last edited by kestrel404; 2013-02-07 at 03:50 PM.
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2013-02-07, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
so. other changes (based on a diff on this plaintext rendering).
(my previous copy was a bit ... old, mind, as we can see.)
Additionally, the champion may craft a single, special illumination,
binding it to the unfathomable wellspring of radiance that she has become.
- This illumination may possess a mote cost of up to [the champion's evoker
- level * 1.5], rounding down. The champion may evoke this illumination once
- per encounter, and invariably pays 20m for it, regardless of its actual
- cost.
+ This illumination calculates the effect of its Foundation component as if
+ it possessed a mote cost of [the champion's evoker level * 1.5], rounding
+ down. The champion may evoke this illumination once per encounter, and
+ invariably pays 20m for it, regardless of its actual cost. The champion may
+ alter or replace this illumination whenever she gains a permanent evoker
+ level.
actually, that's the only other real change, I think.
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2013-02-07, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
Foundation components have their power dependant on the mote cost of the illumination. That line merely states that the Champion's ultimate illumination works as if it had a cost of 30 motes (for a non-epic, 20th level champion), it has nothing to do with what extra effects those motes actually pay for.
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2013-02-07, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
the new line is as far as I can tell, this indicates that the illumination's foundation component functions as if at cost 1.5×level, but the illumination itself costs 20m. it is not clear how this relates at all to the extra effects of motes: must they total to at most 20m? can they also total up to 1.5×level? are they not permitted, s.t. only the foundation takes effect? are they unbounded, since there doesn't seem to be a limitation on the most cost of an illumination beyond that the mote cost cannot exceed evoker level, and mote cost is fixed at 20m?
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2013-02-07, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice
So, first up, changelog! Lots of tweaks to get through, so here's the first batch:
- Twinned Device has gained new functionality! Using a variation of the volley rules, stand at the center of a veritable maelstrom of weaponry.
- Blazing Aegis has gotten a significant buff to its ally-shielding capabilities. Sword and board builds are underused and unappreciated, and can really use the help doing what they're supposed to be good at.
- Added the Radiant Arsenal feat.
- Nerfed the effect of the surge of Battles slightly - it no longer functions with less than 7m worth of cost, though it is unchanged beyond that point.
- Nerfed the Champion capstone slightly - it now only amplifies Foundation effects. Stargazer's complex formula are still weaker in terms of raw power, but they allow for significantly more finesse now.
- The Stargazer's capstone is now (Ex), so their immunity to suppression cannot be itself suppressed. That would be silly and borderline paradoxical.
- Empath illumination progression has been re-worked significantly. They now possesses vastly fewer total illuminations, but they've gained a small pool of innate illuminations in exchange - allowing them a compliment of abilities they can reliably use without worrying about changing aspects
- Empath formatting has been shuffled to more intuitively display their Good and Bad saves, given the highly mutable nature of those progressions.
- Assorted minor clarifications and typo fixes - continual thanks to people spotting these and pointing them out. I'm chisling away at them, bit by bit.
Calling this out specifically - it is an excellent class that has a fun niche as a nature-themed evoker, and a lovely flavor to it. While I obviously can't have two empaths listed, I'd very much like to include it with some minor refluffing. Is there any particular flavor you'd like to shoot for here?
You raise a lot of very sound point here, and give some good examples for potential fixes. At least some of these are likely to be incorporated into the aspects, once I have more time to properly analyze them and consider how they compare to what the other ToR classes bring to the table.
EDIT, missed this the first time:
The new version of the champion's capstone essentially overrides the Foundation value with [evoker level * 1.5]. So a 20th level champion would count the effect's foundation component as being worth 30m. It also fixes the cost at 20m, so regardless of evoker level, you'll always pay 20m for it. Otherwise, it is built exactly as any other illumination - you could have an empty effect if you wanted, with nothing but the foundation, but there's nothing preventing you from buying shapes and secondaries as usual.Last edited by Selinia; 2013-02-07 at 06:46 PM.
Lovely Rita Mordio avatar by Zefir! Thank you!
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