The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

[hamishspence]

Dark Eldar souls are also not tainted by Slaanesh. But, rather than use discipline to avoid Slaanesh's notice or Spiritstones to keep their souls safe after they die an early Dark Eldar leader figured out a ritual for physical immortality (i.e. agelessness, not invulnerability) which also kept themselves from getting instantly nomed by Slaanesh: brutally and systematically torturing other sentients and sending their souls to Slaanesh instead. If the flow of souls isn't kept up the Dark Eldar start wasting away until they die and are consumed by Slaanesh.

The 5e codex phrases it slightly differently- implying that Slaanesh started draining their souls after the Fall- and the evil acts were a way to stop it- and immortality was the side-effect:

Codex Dark Eldar page 7

The change that was wrought upon those Eldar sealed within the webway was far more subtle. Rather than having their essence consumed in one great draught, their souls were slowly draining away into the Warp - consumed over time by Slaanesh, the entity the Eldar call She who Thirsts.
...
Provided they steeped themselves in the most evil and decadent acts, the Eldar of the webway found that the curse of Slaanesh could be abated. The agony of others nourished their withered souls and kept them vital and strong, filling their frames with unnatural energies. Assuming they could feed regularly enough, the Eldar of the webway became physically immune to the passage of time.

Yea, Dark Eldar do have psychic ability... it's just profoundly different than that of normal Eldar; it's very single purpose, due to their vampiric nature.

on their psychic powers- they are apparently atrophied- and not used in the City:

Codex Dark Eldar page 5

While countless generations of physical conflict have ensued the Dark Eldar have better reaction speed and greater physical strength than other members of the Eldar race, the innate psychic abilities of their forebears have atrophied. To channel the energies of Chaos within Commorragh would be to invite disaster, for such psychic pyrotechnics could draw the gaze of She Who Thirst, the bane of the Eldar race. As such the use of psychic powers is one of the few things forbidden within the Dark City.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, what is it they feel when they torture someone, beyond normal addiction, then??

[Maugan Ra]

Pleasure. The poor individual being tortured is experiencing such exquisite agony, that the Dark Eldar responsible (or even just watching) is experiencing the same sort of vicarious thrill as a human might feel while watching a movie, or going skydiving, or looking at a beautiful sunset.

[Gavinfoxx]

I thought there was a psychic component, as this is refilling their soul or relieving drain on their soul, or something like that?

[Forum Explorer]

I thought there was a psychic component, as this is refilling their soul or relieving drain on their soul, or something like that?

The 'soul' is tastier, and I suppose it gives a stronger effect. That's about it.

[jseah]

EDIT: When did the Culture hear the term 'Webway Gate'? What do they know of the Webway itself?? I would strongly, strongly, strongly suggest that you keep this information and this term until after The Culture scans the Deathwatch / Ordo Xenos archives!

Sorry that was a mistake. It has been corrected.

They also have a distinct technological advantage, and of all the Eldar factions are easily the most flexible and willing to adopt virtually any new technique or tactic.

Oddly, the Culture could probably set up shop there without too much trouble, once they'd established their credentials as possessing massive overwhelming force.

Huh. Would one be able to take over Commoragh that way? Or would trying just result in a lot of dead Dark Eldar? (it would result in a lot of dead Dark Eldar due to soul drain in the long run but that's another problem)

Look hard enough, and one would be able to find something in Commoragh to cater to any taste.

Especially if the Culture SC agents trying to take over were considered... wimpy by the Dark Eldar due to their far more mundane pleasures.


RE soul drain:
What happens if you put a Dark Eldar inside a Warp interference area? Like a Tyranid shadow or a Necron Warp disruption pylon?

Another possible method for keeping the Dark Eldar "alive" at least by Culture definitions would be constant reloads. As each body gets drained, they reload again.
Either that, or they just go directly to mind-uploading and turn them to inorganics which don't have souls and so don't drain. (not sure if the Dark Eldar would want that?)

[Forum Explorer]

RE soul drain:
What happens if you put a Dark Eldar inside a Warp interference area? Like a Tyranid shadow or a Necron Warp disruption pylon?

Another possible method for keeping the Dark Eldar "alive" at least by Culture definitions would be constant reloads. As each body gets drained, they reload again.
Either that, or they just go directly to mind-uploading and turn them to inorganics which don't have souls and so don't drain. (not sure if the Dark Eldar would want that?)

Nothing. Though I'd like to point out that no one has been in prolonged exposure to Warp disruption pylons. Going by the general theme of 40K that would likely lead to insanity and death. The Shadow doesn't block off access to the warp, it's just this massive presence in the warp that disrupts usage of it unless you have a strong enough will to ignore it.

The problem is that the Dark Eldar know they have souls. So while they'd like new cloning tech, they also realize that the Culture's cloning tech isn't saving them it's just creating a copy of themselves which doesn't help them any. I mean better then nothing but not enough to prevent them from their murdering and torturing.

Same thing with the robots.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, Tyranid shadow just make all weak willed psykers go madder than usual, since it is a huge hungering pressure on their mind. As far as necron pylon thing, I would think that, depending on it's setting, it might be similar feeling to a blank -- nausea, vomiting, passing out or whatever. Or, if it has the setting that the Cadian ones do (stabilizing the warp), than nothing bad would happen at all.

[Gavinfoxx]

SOME Uploaded things maintain their souls (this might require some weird warp tech to do, though). It's the only way that the uploaded psyker I linked you to for the lexicarnum article would still have access to his psyker abilities, if the soul transferred over.

"The Proteus Protocol
[snip]...in 240.M41 Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn discovered the essence of the Arch-Heretic Pontius Glaw preserved in just such a device. The machine itself consisted of a crystalline core, containing the transferred intellect, connected to a Mind Impulse Unit (MIU) that enabled Pontius' mind to connect with exterior machinery and control just as a Princeps mentally controls an Imperial Titan using the same device. Even in his bodiless state Pontius could still make use of his formidable psychic powers. The Renegade Magos-Inquisitor Cyrrik Scayl has for many years experimented with mind transfers and his studies indicate that only the mind of a psyker is strong enough to endure the process."

From one of the 40k wikis...

[Forum Explorer]

SOME Uploaded things maintain their souls (this might require some weird warp tech to do, though). It's the only way that the uploaded psyker I linked you to for the lexicarnum article would still have access to his psyker abilities, if the soul transferred over.

"The Proteus Protocol
[snip]...in 240.M41 Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn discovered the essence of the Arch-Heretic Pontius Glaw preserved in just such a device. The machine itself consisted of a crystalline core, containing the transferred intellect, connected to a Mind Impulse Unit (MIU) that enabled Pontius' mind to connect with exterior machinery and control just as a Princeps mentally controls an Imperial Titan using the same device. Even in his bodiless state Pontius could still make use of his formidable psychic powers. The Renegade Magos-Inquisitor Cyrrik Scayl has for many years experimented with mind transfers and his studies indicate that only the mind of a psyker is strong enough to endure the process."

From one of the 40k wikis...

That's a 40K tech item though. It's like a Soulstone really (which is another version of uploading.) It's the Culture tech that we've decided does not transfer the soul. Otherwise their backups would be worthless against Chaos

[Gavinfoxx]

Well... yes. But Culture looking into these alternative methods (Proteus more than Soulstones), would certainly be interesting. Especially for psykers -- if they can tweak and fix the issues with it, even if that the soul will only adhere to the main copy -- the basic intelligence increasing and personality modification and such which is more possible with AI than biological methods (drones and such can get smarter than people, given culturetech...) will most definitely improve all the ancillary skills associated with being a psyker. All the willpower stuff, all the mental finesse, reaction time, all the decision making of where and how to apply existing psyker capabilities, intellect on where it's useful to suspend physical laws temporarily to achieve a desired goal, etc. Even if raw psychic power and psychic fortitude wouldn't change in such a drone, the sorts of things the psyker could do with their level of power would increase immensely. And they might even be safer than biological psykers, with better safeguards possible!

[Tiki Snakes]

Well... yes. But Culture looking into these alternative methods (Proteus more than Soulstones), would certainly be interesting. Especially for psykers -- if they can tweak and fix the issues with it, even if that the soul will only adhere to the main copy -- the basic intelligence increasing and personality modification and such which is more possible with AI than biological methods (drones and such can get smarter than people, given culturetech...) will most definitely improve all the ancillary skills associated with being a psyker. All the willpower stuff, all the mental finesse, reaction time, all the decision making of where and how to apply existing psyker capabilities, intellect on where it's useful to suspend physical laws temporarily to achieve a desired goal, etc. Even if raw psychic power and psychic fortitude wouldn't change in such a drone, the sorts of things the psyker could do with their level of power would increase immensely. And they might even be safer than biological psykers, with better safeguards possible!

Or they might usher in a whole new way for Chaos to directly mess with technology and before you know it you have a chaos-enslaved Culture.

I think it ranks up there with some of the more dangerous ideas we've had in the thread.

Any idea that can be summed up as "What if the Culture started playing around with the warp?" goes in a very similar catagory.

[Forum Explorer]

Well... yes. But Culture looking into these alternative methods (Proteus more than Soulstones), would certainly be interesting. Especially for psykers -- if they can tweak and fix the issues with it, even if that the soul will only adhere to the main copy -- the basic intelligence increasing and personality modification and such which is more possible with AI than biological methods (drones and such can get smarter than people, given culturetech...) will most definitely improve all the ancillary skills associated with being a psyker. All the willpower stuff, all the mental finesse, reaction time, all the decision making of where and how to apply existing psyker capabilities, intellect on where it's useful to suspend physical laws temporarily to achieve a desired goal, etc. Even if raw psychic power and psychic fortitude wouldn't change in such a drone, the sorts of things the psyker could do with their level of power would increase immensely. And they might even be safer than biological psykers, with better safeguards possible!

I don't know. I think the Culture are actually too arrogant to think that keeping the soul is a good thing. Or that the 40K backups are superior to what they already do. They might think it's interesting and respect that faction more, but not superior.

[Gavinfoxx]

Any idea that can be summed up as "What if the Culture started playing around with the warp?" goes in a very similar catagory.

At some point, I believe they are going to have to. Eventually.

[The Glyphstone]

At some point, I believe they are going to have to. Eventually.

At which point (more) hilarity ensues.


I'm still waiting to get back to the Orks, and find out that Speaks Softly (that's the most pro-Ork GSU/Mind, right?) has been dedicating massive quantities of processor cycles to determine whether Effectors count as Dakka or Choppa. A subtle way to get across the point that it's becoming increasingly 'Orky' as a result of its experiments and/or pets.

[Gavinfoxx]

At which point (more) hilarity ensues.


I'm still waiting to get back to the Orks, and find out that Speaks Softly (that's the most pro-Ork GSU/Mind, right?) has been dedicating massive quantities of processor cycles to determine whether Effectors count as Dakka or Choppa. A subtle way to get across the point that it's becoming increasingly 'Orky' as a result of its experiments and/or pets.

I think the more subtle way of being more orky -- liking winning, liking speed, liking glaring colors, liking overt and unsubtle displays, the appreciation of a good visceral fight, and attracting biologicals that feel similarly -- would be more likely to actually happen.


Also, I'm still waiting for the Sororitas hilarity...

[The Glyphstone]

I think the more subtle way of being more orky -- liking winning, liking speed, liking glaring colors, liking overt and unsubtle displays, the appreciation of a good visceral fight, and attracting biologicals that feel similarly -- would be more likely to actually happen.


Also, I'm still waiting for the Sororitas hilarity...

That could also happen, but I'd consider that more overt than the Effector question. Minds research weird stuff all the time and no one thinks anything of it, but the Dakka/Choppa question is one that no one except an Ork would even consider of mild importance. Actually beginning to display Orky cultural attitudes and behaviors in its day-to-day operations would be the next step.



Also...what happens when two GSU's get in a fight? Does everything cancel out, or is it a 'who strikes first' situation?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Also...what happens when two GSU's get in a fight? Does everything cancel out, or is it a 'who strikes first' situation?

Surprise can make a difference, and it depends on relative tech levels as well. I think the scene in Excession where one ship takes on hundreds of older ones has been posted multiple times here; granted, that was warship vs. warships, but the tech gap still holds. I think two GCUs from roughly the same generation would find themselves basically evenly matched unless one of them pulled something really tricky, though I don't recall there being enough equiv-tech matchups in the books to be sure.

[Gavinfoxx]

I just think that when The Culture gets their hands on the Ordos Xenos and Deathwatch data, including all of the sequestered and restricted information that various academics and recording devices and biological data and writings the Imperium has had regarding Orks over the years... the 'Are they a HS?' debate is going to positively explode. I mean, just as an example, surely some Administratum (or planetary university) academic with far, far more curiosity than sense has written a thesis paper along the lines of, "A study in parallels--the cultural patterns from the Age of Terra and Developing Worlds of Equivalent technological level and those in Ork Kulture; is Ork society a funhouse-mirror distorted reflection of humanity's psychic gestalt and historical heritage?' with the short title, 'So why do the red ones go faster?' -- and of course this person was probably declared a heretic and shot, and his thesis burned... except for a few copies. Which would end up at the Deathwatch base, in the hands of the Ordos Xenos and Deathwatch themselves. And probably forgotten. And this sort of thing has been going on for thousands of years... oh the hilarity...

[jseah]

That's a 40K tech item though. It's like a Soulstone really (which is another version of uploading.) It's the Culture tech that we've decided does not transfer the soul. Otherwise their backups would be worthless against Chaos

It's because soulstones cannot be copied, but backups can. There is no way to approach Culture backups other than that they make a new soul because they can just as easily activate the backup while the original still exists. (and they can have an unlimited number of those backups active)

[jseah]

part 8.5 Dark Eldar - Finale

Spoiler

Show

Preliminary analysis of the mind scan data indicates some unusual physiology in Eldar biology. While humans and Necrons encode all of their information in realspace, it would appear that Eldar exist as part Warp (which our scans did not pick up). Primarily in their emotional impulses. This is bad news for implementing reload technology on the Eldar, we are unsure of the impact trying to do so would have on their psyche.
We are still able to pick out what emotion is being experienced but some complexity (which is considerably more than humans) is lost.

The good news is that memory and higher cognition appears to be similar to humans, at least to a large extent. We are able to pick out nearly all thoughts and memories exactly like humans. Decoding these will require some time until we have analysed the pattern further.

Nevertheless, from observations of the teleportation gate as well as guidance from the mind scans, we have a preliminary method for using Eldar teleportation gates. This, however, requires an Eldar to perform the actions as it is partly Warp driven. It should be theoretically possible to activate the gate without it, the gate provides all the Warp energy, it is only communicating with the gate that requires use of the Warp. The miniature copy of the teleportation gate should come in useful for this analysis.

The hyperspace transmitters we placed on the ships that left in the first week (which have been implied to have reached their destinations) are still undetected. Which is strange given that the hyperspace transmitters are of enough power to be detected over the entire galaxy and there has been enough time to ensure that the signal could reach anywhere.
There are two possible explanations. The first is that the Eldar teleportation gates lead outside of this galaxy. The second is that the gates lead to the Warp.
We consider the second more likely. It is known from IoM records that material objects can exist in the Warp, and that effects in the Warp have no impact on realspace. It would not be surprising that we are unable to detect the hyperspace transmitters' signals if the Eldar ships are still in the Warp.

Dark Eldar - Comorragh
The Harlequin held the blade directly under the Dracon's nose. The form of the Harlequin was still wavering and impossible to make out behind its holofield but the monomolecular blade was as steady as a rock.

"All right, take the ship," he said, making sure to duplicate the note to the captain. Lass'ver had returned from the brush with this Culture relatively unscathed but she was not a special vessel in any way. He wondered why the Harlequins were so interested in it.

But a mere Dracon did not anger the Harlequins and lived. He would just have to find another ship to shore up his strength somehow.

Two hours later
The Corsair Lass'ver moved out of Comorragh on its final journey, the hyperspace transmitter and spy nanobots beeping their signals futilely into the Webway.
Of the other two ships surviving that raid, the Harlequins paid no mind. They only needed one after all.

[Maugan Ra]

Oh yeah, Harlequins. This'll be fun.

Huh. Would one be able to take over Commoragh that way? Or would trying just result in a lot of dead Dark Eldar? (it would result in a lot of dead Dark Eldar due to soul drain in the long run but that's another problem)

A lot of dead... everything, really. The Culture could probably convince, say, Asdrubael Vect that fighting them in a straight conflict would just end up as a loss. And Vect might very well stand down, and call them the new bosses in that case. Then he'd calmly walk away, and start a guerrila war to end all others. Like, say, sealing off the section of the city that the Culture are occupying, and then opening it to the Warp. Possibly with himself inside, to allay suspicion, as he can be regenerated.

Anyway, the thing about the Dark Eldar is that they know there are ways to keep their souls intact that don't rely on constant sadism and the chasing of sensation. The Craftworlders and Exodites manage it, after all. And they still prefer their own methods.

Feel free to extrapolate this to the rest of the possible methods the Culture could offer...

Also, Harlequins. The Dark Eldar are perhaps the nastiest monsters the galaxy has to offer, and they are terrified of the Harlequins. A Troupe can go anywhere it wants in Commoragh, and no one will dare to attack it - something that not even Vect can guarantee for himself.

[Gavinfoxx]

It's because soulstones cannot be copied, but backups can. There is no way to approach Culture backups other than that they make a new soul because they can just as easily activate the backup while the original still exists. (and they can have an unlimited number of those backups active)

So if they modified the backups with the proteus thing like I mentioned, perhaps a way it could work is, 'only the first creation in space of the brain mind patterns, actually running, calls the soul from the now-dead organic psyker to it, and then only if the process is done in proximity to the organic body and with certain proteus methods. Subsequent machine copies do not call/lure the original soul, unless a particular set of circumstances which involve the destruction of the original machine intelligence and subsequent creation of a new one (to thereby lure the soul again to a different place), and any biological copies of the patterns spontaneously create a new soul, which may or may not become a psyker or be a latent psyker, given circumstances of their creation.'

[Forum Explorer]

So if they modified the backups with the proteus thing like I mentioned, perhaps a way it could work is, 'only the first creation in space of the brain mind patterns, actually running, calls the soul from the now-dead organic psyker to it, and then only if the process is done in proximity to the organic body and with certain proteus methods. Subsequent machine copies do not call/lure the original soul, unless a particular set of circumstances which involve the destruction of the original machine intelligence and subsequent creation of a new one (to thereby lure the soul again to a different place), and any biological copies of the patterns spontaneously create a new soul, which may or may not become a psyker or be a latent psyker, given circumstances of their creation.'

You're forgetting that the Proteus was a Chaos artifact. Or at least the only one we've seen is. And Chaos 'backs up' it's fav champions all the time. Take the Thousand Sons for example.

It occurred to me that if a Culture ship went into the webway (or warp) it'd likely be entirely cut off from hyperspace. Suddenly they would be without their most 'hax' tech which could lead to some hilarity if the Dark Eldar decided to attack.

Oh and if the Dark Eldar managed to capture a Mind they would find a way to cause it pain. They are that good.

[Gavinfoxx]

It was Chaos tech? you sure? I thought it just happened to be someone chaotic who used it, not that the process was Chaos infused...

[Forum Explorer]

It was Chaos tech? you sure? I thought it just happened to be someone chaotic who used it, not that the process was Chaos infused...

I don't think it's explicitly stated. However it was found by a Chaos cult, used by a Chaos cult, to preserve one of the greatest Chaos sorcerers. Odds are it was built by Chaos in the first place. Plus that very much is a thing that Chaos would build in the first place.

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't think it's explicitly stated. However it was found by a Chaos cult, used by a Chaos cult, to preserve one of the greatest Chaos sorcerers. Odds are it was built by Chaos in the first place. Plus that very much is a thing that Chaos would build in the first place.

....

See, that's what I get for trusting the wiki as my primary piece of info on the topic. *sighs* ...

[Forum Explorer]

....

See, that's what I get for trusting the wiki as my primary piece of info on the topic. *sighs* ...

It has been a while since I read those books. Particularly since I lost my copy of Xenos. But that's what I remember anyways.

[Gavinfoxx]

Can anyone try and confirm some of the details about this from the Eisenhorn trilogy??

[Fan]

You're forgetting that the Proteus was a Chaos artifact. Or at least the only one we've seen is. And Chaos 'backs up' it's fav champions all the time. Take the Thousand Sons for example.

It occurred to me that if a Culture ship went into the webway (or warp) it'd likely be entirely cut off from hyperspace. Suddenly they would be without their most 'hax' tech which could lead to some hilarity if the Dark Eldar decided to attack.

Oh and if the Dark Eldar managed to capture a Mind they would find a way to cause it pain. They are that good.

It would also reduce the Mind's intelligence.. vastly.. same with all the drones and such that think in hyperspace, the struggle of dealing with a thousand fold reduction in intelligence alone would be.. well that alone might drive a mind crazy.