League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

[Renegade Paladin]

Are any of you Bethor Kookalian? I got a friend request in game out of the blue and have no idea who it is.

[NineThePuma]

That'd be Godskook. He's a pretty okay guy.

[9mm]

So I've reached a conclusion during my quest to learn assassins: always buy mobility boots. I feel the speed increase to catch opponents is worth more than any pen or CDR. Am I making a preference decision or going crazy trying to compensate for mistakes.?

[Tychris1]

While movement boots are good, most assassins have some sort of gap closer to get to their targets anyway. CDR and Pen mean you either kill the person faster (And thus the enemy closes less distance thus you need less movement) or you can cast abilities faster (Such as your gap closer, which will cover the disrance lost from your lack of movement) which will do more damage and thus kill the opponet faster (See Pen).

Atleast that's my rationale.

And yep, Godskook = Bethor. Pretty okay guy.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

While movement boots are good, most assassins have some sort of gap closer to get to their targets anyway. CDR and Pen mean you either kill the person faster (And thus the enemy closes less distance thus you need less movement) or you can cast abilities faster (Such as your gap closer, which will cover the disrance lost from your lack of movement) which will do more damage and thus kill the opponet faster (See Pen).

Atleast that's my rationale.

I like Boots of Mobility on a few assassins: usually those with only one gap-closer, or jungling assassins that I want as many ganks as possible with. This basically means Talon, Rengar, Evelynn, and Shaco, and SOMETIMES Kat if I'm feeling crazy. On most other assassins I prefer boots that will let me actually fight a bit more: usually Pen or Merc's. CDR isn't really a particularly useful Assassin stat, unless you already have absurdly low cooldowns (Rengar, Zed, and so forth), since you'll usually only get 1 combo off even with the extra CDR, and, if you're playing it right, your target should be dead.

Basically, more mobility is never a bad option, but you only really want it if A: you HAVE to move across the map quickly to get kills (Rengar is great at this: likewise Shaco) or B: if you absolutely have to save your gap-closers for finishing moves or to avoid blowing a flash or other escape move.

[Godskook]

Are any of you Bethor Kookalian? I got a friend request in game out of the blue and have no idea who it is.

Y'know, you could've just accepted and asked him. I hear he's a pretty okay guy. Had to, after two endorsements.

So I've reached a conclusion during my quest to learn assassins: always buy mobility boots. I feel the speed increase to catch opponents is worth more than any pen or CDR. Am I making a preference decision or going crazy trying to compensate for mistakes.?

Depends on the 'zoom' of your goal, so to speak. If its map-wide(split-pushing squishy loners or ganking presence), you're not crazy, at the very least. On a more local level, AP assassins like Fizz, Diana and Akali would be better served with either Merc's(for Tenacity) or Sorcs.

[McDouggal]

What is the most annoying champion to play against? (Must have something to read in the morning...)

Most annoying for me? Alistar. Is it just me, or does he hard counter all the supports that I have :'(

[toasty]

Toasty has a bad habit of quoting the wrong posts, but I think he was referring to the multiple posts of jungle WW discussion going on just above.

Apparently I do.

1. We're talking about lanewick, so first paragraph is irrelevant b/c it's talking about junglewick and jungle mundo

WW may not be as tanky in teamfights, but you're not going to tell me the ability to catch carries who wander too far out, which is relatively common in solo que, is not an advantageous ability?

Mundo can catch people. His W makes him immune to CC (W+Mercs+Defense Mastery People. THINK ABOUT IT). His ult makes him fast. His q makes people slow. You should probably just take red buff because you're gonna carry. I mean I haven't played warwick much in a long time, but right now I'd argue Mundo does more damage and is tankier which means almost literally Mundo is the better hero in every way imagineable. Except Mid-game. Warwick probably has a stronger midgame. But his early game is so terrible . . .

[tyckspoon]

What is the most annoying champion to play against? (Must have something to read in the morning...)

Fiddles. Because 3 second point-and-click hard CC. Cow is also kind of annoying, if only because it feels like his skills gain about a hundred units of range when other people play him than they have when I play him. (Also, Cow vs. Cow is one of the most hilariously futile matchups.)

[ChaosOS]

What is the most annoying champion to play against? (Must have something to read in the morning...)

Most annoying for me? Alistar. Is it just me, or does he hard counter all the supports that I have :'(

Teemo. Playing dominion, it's literally a teemo on every single team. It's impossible to walk through the jungle without losing half your health to a shroom unless you have seriously invested in MR because of how stupidly strong Blackfire Torch is. I am SO glad it's being nerfed next patch.

[Godskook]

What is the most annoying champion to play against? (Must have something to read in the morning...)

Most annoying for me? Alistar. Is it just me, or does he hard counter all the supports that I have :'(

Most annoying, I'd say Draven. He hurts like hell, and every. single. time. I play against one, he catches all the axes, every time. Sure, he's weak to CC, but I swear, that never happens in practice at my normal Elo(which I'm pretty sure is lower than my ranked Elo).

but right now I'd argue Mundo does more damage and is tankier which means almost literally Mundo is the better hero in every way imagineable.

Mundo has zero hard CC, WW has suppression. I mean, think about it. Of those two, which one is actually going to be stop people from flashing away?

Mundo is the stronger jungler right now, but he doesn't fulfill the same roles as Warwick does, so if you actually need Warwick's role, Mundo is a horrible substitute.

[toasty]

Mundo has zero hard CC, WW has suppression. I mean, think about it. Of those two, which one is actually going to be stop people from flashing away?

Flash is good, yes, and flashing over walls is rather annoying. But let me say this again:
Mundo has red buff, Q spam, ult and maybe even Exhaust. You aren't getting away from him. And even if you are, he will chase you forever because he's Mundo and isn't easily kited. Warwick ults and if someone does go low enough in HP then he has a hard time doing anything but qing whoever is near him, not zoning the carries.

I admit Warwick is good and that he technically has stronger engage, but I've found, ESPECIALLY in my elo, that just walking up to someone usually makes them attack you. Especially under tower.

[u-gotNOgame]

Flash is good, yes, and flashing over walls is rather annoying. But let me say this again:
Mundo has red buff, Q spam, ult and maybe even Exhaust. You aren't getting away from him. And even if you are, he will chase you forever because he's Mundo and isn't easily kited. Warwick ults and if someone does go low enough in HP then he has a hard time doing anything but qing whoever is near him, not zoning the carries.

I admit Warwick is good and that he technically has stronger engage, but I've found, ESPECIALLY in my elo, that just walking up to someone usually makes them attack you. Especially under tower.

Mundo is really squishy pre 6(11 really) before he gets any items. Sure he turns into the final raid boss but he requires a lot of amp up time. Really he shouldn't be ganking much at all unless the enemy lanes are being dumb; because, if you miss a clever he's not really that good of a chaser, and every second he spends in a lane is a second he's not farming his/the enemy's jungle. He became super popular around the time that counter jungling became huge ( M5 at IEM Hannover 2011 IIRC) but that was before lane mechanics really became "perfect" in some ways and people realized that every lane was a snowball lane. That's why gank oriented junglers are big now (Mao, Lee Sin, Skarner). Everyone of those gank better than mundo and have clear times that are close to mundo's, they also offer utility that mudno doesn't (Mostly in the way of hard initiation) which is why he's sort of fallen out of favor.

Picking a jungler that is not gank oriented really means that your lanes have to play safe because as a jungler you're playing to put the other jungler behind and to a lesser extent pressure lanes. That doesn't happen if the enemy is first blooding top lane and double killing bot lane. Maintaining jungle/objective control is a full time job and it means that you have to spend less time actually showing yourself on the map in the lanes. It means "enemy jungler top?" "time to take dragon/his wraithes/ check his buffs/ push towers" not "time to go countergank".

That being said, Red buff + exhaust makes any jungler deadly if you can force their defensive summoner early.

-UGNG

[Eldariel]

So, what should I do on TT when I'm playing Olaf and the enemy team is stacking health to counter me? Especially a team was enough cc to zone the ad carry and the ap caster is incompetent? Or is it pretty much over at that point?

I'd build normal; Pillager > Tanky. If they're building Health to counter Reckless Swing, they're leaving themselves open to Undertow which combined with your inherent ArPen from ult, Pillager & Masteries and your W means you can probably Lifesteal/Spellvamp for enough that it damn well doesn't matter what they do.

Depends on the exact opponents, of course. I could see Blade but Olaf isn't really an autoattacker so much of the potential is lost.

[toasty]

@Mundo:

Mundo probably doesn't fit the current "meta" as junglers go, I agree. He's too much of a carry jungler who needs to farm, this is true. I don't even think I'd want to play him so much the way I do in competative play.

The thing is... I click with Mundo. I know how to jungle him and I have been outplaying junglers for a while now. I think the last game I played the enemy jungler got 2-3 buffs the entire game. (To be fair my olaf was pretty damn good, but still, it was awesome).

Something else to consider though: I think one of my complaints about a hero like Warwick vs Mundo is that, in an early skirmish, even assuming Warwick gets into the fight, he still doesn't do a whole lot of damage. I mean, his autos hurt enough and his W is a decent steroid, but what really makes WW deadly is when he can max his Q and do the whole "ult someone and kill them with onhit effects and Q spam." Mundo never has that problem. So you can countergank, like, its not that hard to pull off a decent counter gank if you know how to predict people and you have even just 2 well placed deep wards (like, honestly, warding wraith camps is so amazingly useful oh my god). A final thing to consider is that while Mundo is mostly not the greatest ganker you can always have a roam heavy middle that supports Mundo.

edit: I'm really tired and this post probably doesn't do the topic justice. The reason I play mundo is because I play mundo. if I have a high winrate I don't question it, I go with it.

[Dante & Vergil]

Man I've been having an insane time with Varus this past month. His Q is just awesome, cause it allows me to sit back and harass from a safer distance, and oh man, ever since the buffs to his ult it always seems to be grabbing more than 1 champ for me, which is awesome. With all this in my mind, I was wondering what other people thought of Varus, and wanted to ask people how to build him with the new items of season 3 approaching?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Runaan's Hurricane would be interesting on Varus if it builds W stacks on multiple targets (no idea if it does). Otherwise I don't think he'll be too different.

[Cogwheel]

Runaan's Hurricane would be interesting on Varus if it builds W stacks on multiple targets (no idea if it does). Otherwise I don't think he'll be too different.

It does. This was even one of the examples used, I believe.

[Zinc]

Enough lurking, time for me to finally post.

I'm on NA servers, username is "El Jaun Zinco" (not a typo). Been playing since the release of Udyr, so abou 2010, and not stopped since. I have drifted from tole to role over the years enough times to say that I am comfortable playing in all of the roles to a competant level. My favourite champions are GP, Sion, Janna, Fiddlesticks (as a support), Nautilaus, Graves and recently, Shen. I have been active on the mumble server over the past few months.

Introductions out of the way, I have this to ask: Who is your favourite less-conventional support, if any?

My personal favourite is Fiddlesticks, followed closely by GP. Fiddle provides so much lane pressure from his Dark Wind and his Terrify, and his teamfighting isn't awful early-mid game. GP is similar, but he has a stronger teamfight with a more shaky lane-phase. He really requires your ADC to know what you are thinking before you act, else they both get punished hard.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Introductions out of the way, I have this to ask: Who is your favourite less-conventional support, if any?

I'd say Zyra, but she's commonly accepted these days.

Speaking for Mario and myself: Rengar. It's less "support" and more "Kill Lane Alpha," but a Rengar in bot lane has some decent sustain, some half-decent CC with his bolas, and almost unparalleled zoning: a Rengar in the bush is incentive to NEVER go near it, especially if he has 4 stacks of Fury. If the enemy carry or support is at all squishy, Rengar + any offensive carry (Draven, Vayne, Graves, and Trist are all great with him) is basically a free kill whenever they come close.

Cassiopeia is similar: with decent mana regen, she can zone the enemy team basically indefinitely, which is awesome. There's a snake in the bush! Garen can also zone very well: his silence + spin + his ability to run into the bush and heal up are really strong if you can force your opponent back a little bit to gain that bush control. Pantheon functions like Rengar, but he trades immense bush control and repeated engages for better harass.

[Lix Lorn]

What is the most annoying champion to play against? (Must have something to read in the morning...)

Most annoying for me? Alistar. Is it just me, or does he hard counter all the supports that I have :'(

Alistar ruins aggressive kill lanes, and I don't really know how to do any othe rkind.
Blitzcrank is similar but squishier. I can win against him, sometimes, but he changes the entire dynamic.
Kassadin. Just... @#%£ Kassadin.
And Jayce. If I meet Jayce top, I lose. Whatever champion I play, he has better everything than I do.

[Zinc]

Speaking for Mario and myself: Rengar. It's less "support" and more "Kill Lane Alpha," but a Rengar in bot lane has some decent sustain, some half-decent CC with his bolas, and almost unparalleled zoning: a Rengar in the bush is incentive to NEVER go near it, especially if he has 4 stacks of Fury. If the enemy carry or support is at all squishy, Rengar + any offensive carry (Draven, Vayne, Graves, and Trist are all great with him) is basically a free kill whenever they come close.

Cassiopeia is similar: with decent mana regen, she can zone the enemy team basically indefinitely, which is awesome. There's a snake in the bush! Garen can also zone very well: his silence + spin + his ability to run into the bush and heal up are really strong if you can force your opponent back a little bit to gain that bush control. Pantheon functions like Rengar, but he trades immense bush control and repeated engages for better harass.

Not a fan of Pantheon support since if he doesn't force a kill early, he had no presence in the mid game and his lare game was already bellow par.

Garen really lacks ability to peel for his ADC in lane beyond exhaust, but I can see him working in a hyper aggressive lane when you have extensive warding.

I never really thought about Cassiopeia as a support until now, and the more I think about it the more I can see it working. Her ability to peel in lane is still unreliable, but base damages are good alongside with solid teamfighting with that ult and sustained damage. Would like to try it someday.

As for Rengar, I am yet to experience it. If either Mario or Yourself could use it with me one day, I'll give it a look.

[Forrestfire]

I'm a fan of support Veigar, if only for the giant stun. Just let him last-hit a single minion out of each wave with his Q.

Cassiopeia is similar: with decent mana regen, she can zone the enemy team basically indefinitely, which is awesome. There's a snake in the bush!

All I could think was this.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Not a fan of Pantheon support since if he doesn't force a kill early, he had no presence in the mid game and his lare game was already bellow par.

Well, yes. Panth really needs certain carries: Grave and Vayne can apply enough damage to force kills. But he is unreliable.

Garen really lacks ability to peel for his ADC in lane beyond exhaust, but I can see him working in a hyper aggressive lane when you have extensive warding.

This is where you use him, yes.

I never really thought about Cassiopeia as a support until now, and the more I think about it the more I can see it working. Her ability to peel in lane is still unreliable, but base damages are good alongside with solid teamfighting with that ult and sustained damage. Would like to try it someday.

Yeah...she has no peeling power whatsoever (aside from a small slow), but her zone-control is REALLY strong, and people often think twice about chasing through poison.

As for Rengar, I am yet to experience it. If either Mario or Yourself could use it with me one day, I'll give it a look.

Sure. Be warned though...a Rengar lane gets kills wherever it can, so be prepared to A: be aggressive, and B: not necessarily get the kills yourself. When BOTH bot laners scale incredibly well off kills, you just want as many of them as you can get.

[Zinc]

Sure. Be warned though...a Rengar lane gets kills wherever it can, so be prepared to A: be aggressive, and B: not necessarily get the kills yourself. When BOTH bot laners scale incredibly well off kills, you just want as many of them as you can get.

Kills are kills, regardless who they are on. The Krepo/Yellowpete lane shows this is fine even with worse scaling supports, so I am perfectly happy to share kills with Rengar.

[PersonMan]

Introductions out of the way, I have this to ask: Who is your favourite less-conventional support, if any?

LeBlanc. Starting at level 2, you can aggressively take control of your bushes (they all belong to you, always) and use Q+W (later QWE) to say "Hi there, enemy ADC, how's full HP treating you? Bad? Oh, well, no problem, lemme take that nasty HP away. Bye! See you in ~14 seconds!" Due to her high base damage and good ratios, you do good damage even with only Kage's. I generally go Philo/Kage's/Sorc/Abyssal, going into Zhonya's/Warmog's/Derpcap (selling Philo Stone and eventually Kage's) later. I call it "Tankblanc".

I've occasionally considered Supporten (that is, Support Kennen), since he has good "bushcamp, harass enemy" potential and can do well with only a handful of core items.

I think I might play others every now and then, but I can't think of 'em.

[toasty]

Kills are kills, regardless who they are on. The Krepo/Yellowpete lane shows this is fine even with worse scaling supports, so I am perfectly happy to share kills with Rengar.

This is only moderately true. Kills ARE kills but certain comps really want the gold distributed towards heroes with the best late game. This is why ADs get gold and supports don't. ADs scale really well with gold.

So does Rengar, and the fact that people still play squishy support heroes like Sona means he's probably a decent troll-pick support in less-serious games. I've done it and it's actually pretty fun because you can 1-shot sona if you get ahead enough.

However, the truth is its really not the safest strategy and in general you're better off jungling him or running him top lane.

Final thought: I'm so glad they are removing HoG. I'm so sick and tired of seeing every jungler in competative play build the same regardless of circumstance. I think Iwilldominate built the same build of Boots+2 gold/10 and Aegis on every hero he plays now. Dominate is playing Rengar and Hecarim, balls-deep all-in heroes who... really don't want Gold/10 (Aegis is still OP though).

[PersonMan]

Just played Soraka and got reminded of why I don't like playing ADCs.

Enemy Vayne/Nunu charge me and kill me, Ashe does 0 damage...uff.

Still, ended the game 5/2.

We had 7 kills in total.

[Silverraptor]

LeBlanc. Starting at level 2, you can aggressively take control of your bushes (they all belong to you, always) and use Q+W (later QWE) to say "Hi there, enemy ADC, how's full HP treating you? Bad? Oh, well, no problem, lemme take that nasty HP away. Bye! See you in ~14 seconds!" Due to her high base damage and good ratios, you do good damage even with only Kage's. I generally go Philo/Kage's/Sorc/Abyssal, going into Zhonya's/Warmog's/Derpcap (selling Philo Stone and eventually Kage's) later. I call it "Tankblanc".

I've occasionally considered Supporten (that is, Support Kennen), since he has good "bushcamp, harass enemy" potential and can do well with only a handful of core items.

I think I might play others every now and then, but I can't think of 'em.

For my next trick, I'll make their lifebar disappear.

[Zinc]

However, the truth is its really not the safest strategy and in general you're better off jungling him or running him top lane.

I would never play this lane if I were going to aim for a safe strategy. I'd play it as an all in, do-or-die lane. I normally don't aim for that, but nonetheless it can be very fun to play those lanes now and then to break the monotony of Ez/Sona vs Taric/Graves.

Fiddlesticks I'd play in a serious lane, since he works well in one; whereas GP (my other unconventional support) is less serious but still competitive. The Rengar lane is clearly a kill lane, where it doesn't matter that the "support" is getting SOME of the kills, so long as the opponent is dead and the AD carry gets to free farm. I used to play support Singed for a friend when he played Graves. Worked a charm, but that by no means says the the character is best suited to that position.