Is sex always fanservice?

[ThiagoMartell]

1. It's a statue of a naked guy. What does something need to have more than one person to be sex now? Doing solo is no longer sexual?

"Sexual" does not mean "sex". It means "related to sex".

2. Again, define porn. Don't just call it porn. DEFINE IT. Give me a definition that can be measured. Not just "I know it when I see it." I want numbers, examples, SCIENCE, "damn it".

Dictionary.com for porn.
Oxford dictionary has an entry for hentai.

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Pronunciation: /hɛnˈtʌɪ/
noun
[mass noun]
a subgenre of the Japanese genres of manga and anime, characterized by overtly sexualized characters and sexually explicit images and plots.

Origin:
1990s: Japanese, literally 'abnormal, perverted'

3. So basically you're judging something you've never read based on your biases. There are so many things wrong with that. But most of my arguments to show how stupid it is, involve religion and would get me warnings.

No, I'm judging a game by it's genre.
It's like saying an action game has action and an FPS has guns.
I'm also judging it by it's title. It's like saying Dungeons and Dragons has dragons in it.
I don't know how good is your Japanese, but katawa is a very rude, very offensive word.

[Morithias]

{Scrubbed}

[Morph Bark]

2. Again, define porn. Don't just call it porn. DEFINE IT. Give me a definition that can be measured. Not just "I know it when I see it." I want numbers, examples, SCIENCE, "damn it".

If we go by this definition, Katawa Shoujo is probably not porn, but all the sex scenes in movies and HBO series and such most likely are.

I think in a lot of cases one can just take the opinion of the creator on what it is as the definition of whether or not something is porn or not. If the creator of Katawa Shoujo said it is an eroge, then it is porn.

[Morithias]

If we go by this definition, Katawa Shoujo is probably not porn, but all the sex scenes in movies and HBO series and such most likely are.

I think in a lot of cases one can just take the opinion of the creator on what it is as the definition of whether or not something is porn or not. If the creator of Katawa Shoujo said it is an eroge, then it is porn.

Yeah, but then one gets problems. Does that mean if I create a videogame about playing a tyrant going around kidnapping and raping princesses, so long as I say it's not porn it's not porn? "it's not porn, it's a game to simulate what many real world armies and tyrants did to the women after they killed the men."

[ThiagoMartell]

I'm just questioning, why you show one piece of nudity and all of a sudden "OMG MUST BAN" when the best selling book right now is about children MURDERING EACH OTHER.

That's simply not what happens.
Nudity is one thing, explicit sex is different. Nudity can be non-sexualized and it frequently is. Explicit sex... not so much.

[Morithias]

That's simply not what happens.
Nudity is one thing, explicit sex is different. Nudity can be non-sexualized and it frequently is. Explicit sex... not so much.

I stay by what I said about the three scenes in Sengoku Rance. Kenshin's murder, Kou's raping, and Leith's capture, all made me want to reload my game, or hit the "skip" button as fast as I could. They were definitely un-sexy. Especially the Kenshin scene...oh god that was like something out of a horror movie.

[ThiagoMartell]

{scrubbed}

[snoopy13a]

The sex scene at the beginning of Juno is rather integral to the plot.

[RPGuru1331]

Neither plot device, 'character development', nor fan service? It probably does happen, but it's infrequent at best, when it's explicit. Why? Because if none of those things occurs, it's pretty much a waste of screen time. An implicit scene can handle the fact that it happened, and was fun, without detracting from the more important points.

[Morph Bark]

An implicit scene

Prime example: Kirk putting on his boots.

[Giggling Ghast]

The live double-dildo show in Requiem for a Dream is the least sexiest thing ever. It just shows the degrading depths Marion is forced to sink to feed her addiction.

[ThiagoMartell]

The live double-dildo show in Requiem for a Dream is the least sexiest thing ever. It just shows the degrading depths Marion is forced to sink to feed her addiction.

That scene is very disturbing. Of curse, I'm sure someone was turned on by it.

[Giggling Ghast]

That scene is very disturbing. Of course, I'm sure someone was turned on by it.

There's someone turned on by everything. There isn't a 'thing' in the world that isn't someone's fetish. We could be talking about triangles and someone here would drop his pants at the mention of the word 'isoceles.' The intent of the scene is still to disgust the average viewer and I think it does that pretty well.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't know how good is your Japanese, but katawa is a very rude, very offensive word.

That word was used because whoever named the game didn't realize it's offensive, though. So it's not rude intentionally.

As for the rest of the game, really, I have no idea what you think there is in that VN that'd offend your sensibilities, but I can pretty much guarantee it's not there. It handles its subject matter in a very tasteful way, and avoids the pitfalls many visual novels fall into. By saying "it offends my sensibilities" without even playing it, you are judging a book by its cover.

[White_Drake]

I have a friend that says hell can't exist because no matter how horrible something is, someone will always fetishize it, thus making hell self-defeating.

[invinible]

Watch enough animal documentaries and you will evidently come across sex scene(s) that just happen instead of being planned.

[warty goblin]

Watch enough animal documentaries and you will evidently come across sex scene(s) that just happen instead of being planned.

Grow up around ducks, and never be shocked by anything again. Whatever people do, ducks do kinkier.

[Acanous]

if we're counting games, Zerg Queens oviposition larvae into hives. It's definately not intended to titilate, you CAN play without it (Though the only strat I've seen that does is the 3 minute ling pressure push) and it's there, without being a key part of the story or acknowledged by any of the characters in the game.

So there's an example, I think.

[Knaight]

1. It's a statue of a naked guy. What does something need to have more than one person to be sex now? Doing solo is no longer sexual?

Are you really going to try and argue that nudity is inherently sexual?

[Kato]

To pick up something commented on earlier:
Yeah, we don't usually see people going to the toilet while this, too, is a natural action, but the thing is... most of the time nothing interesting happens while people go to the toilet. And on rare occasions there are scenes that happen on the toilet... Though more likely e.g. men standing at a urinal and talking. (Something I couldn't do but whatever)

At the same time one could argue that eating is a normal, natural function and we often see people eating because they are having conversation over dinner.

Now someone tell me you don't talk to your partner while having sex and that whatever you say during sex (well, not all of it but part of it) is much likely an important aspect of the relationship and thus part of a story. Yet sex is most often only a tool for something else. (I guess we don't really need to discuss why, we all know and there are exceptions to the rule but still, it's interesting to see sex is much more likely used for other things opposed to what it is for in a normal relationship)

[thompur]

The scene between Sarah and Reese in The Terminator. Sexy, yes, but very integral to the plot.

[Giggling Ghast]

I have a friend that says hell can't exist because no matter how horrible something is, someone will always fetishize it, thus making hell self-defeating.

Unless Hell tailors itself to the sinner.

Everything in the world may be fetishized, but it isn't possible for one person to fetishize everything. Even if you were dealing with some extremely depraved soul that would delight in any torture you could think of, punishment could always be carried out by Hell through the absence of sensation, or by being really boring. (Crowley's version of Hell being an endless waiting line, for instance.)

I better stop there, lest we stray further into religious discussion.

[Mewtarthio]

The scene between Sarah and Reese in The Terminator. Sexy, yes, but very integral to the plot.

I'll say. It revealed that Sarah had three arms! Huge twist; never saw it coming.

[ManuelSacha]

I find pointless self-censoring as stupid and baffling as gratuitous fanservice.

Sex goes hand to hand with love, and it's just another (important) part of life. There's nothing shameful about it.

There are a few cases in which it is portrayed properly, without falling into fanservice, and I loved it (although there will be always those narrow-minded people who'll complain that ANY sex scene is fanservice, and there were a few that one time, too).

One case I can recall right away is the movie Watchmen. The "sex scene in the sky", between two characters whose awkward relation we had grown to like, is extremely well done and liberating.
The beautiful, and ironic, BGM ("Hallelujah") helps us think: "Yes, this is right. This should happen."

[GolemsVoice]

Everything in the world may be fetishized, but it isn't possible for one person to fetishize everything. Even if you were dealing with some extremely depraved soul that would delight in any torture you could think of, punishment could always be carried out by Hell through the absence of sensation, or by being really boring.

... the fluffy pillows.... the fluffy pillows.... the fluffy pillows.... the fluffy pillows....

One case I can recall right away is the movie Watchmen. The "sex scene in the sky", between two characters whose awkward relation we had grown to like, is extremely well done and liberating.
The beautiful, and ironic, BGM ("Hallelujah") helps us think: "Yes, this is right. This should happen."

While I absolutely agree, the cheap ejaculation metaphor ruined it a bit for me. What was THAT about?

[Water_Bear]

One case I can recall right away is the movie Watchmen. The "sex scene in the sky", between two characters whose awkward relation we had grown to like, is extremely well done and liberating.
The beautiful, and ironic, BGM ("Hallelujah") helps us think: "Yes, this is right. This should happen."

Well, that's somewhat subjective; that was the low point for me in the graphic novel and the movie, because it's just so damn disgusting. I don't mind sex scenes normally, but ugh, Dan is just a hideous creature. Alan Moore has always known the secret to making sex as completely unappealing and nauseating as possible.

BTW, can someone change the thread title? Because sex is not "alway" anything, probably because that isn't a word.

[Foeofthelance]

To pick up something commented on earlier:
Yeah, we don't usually see people going to the toilet while this, too, is a natural action, but the thing is... most of the time nothing interesting happens while people go to the toilet. And on rare occasions there are scenes that happen on the toilet... Though more likely e.g. men standing at a urinal and talking. (Something I couldn't do but whatever)

At the same time one could argue that eating is a normal, natural function and we often see people eating because they are having conversation over dinner.

Now someone tell me you don't talk to your partner while having sex and that whatever you say during sex (well, not all of it but part of it) is much likely an important aspect of the relationship and thus part of a story. Yet sex is most often only a tool for something else. (I guess we don't really need to discuss why, we all know and there are exceptions to the rule but still, it's interesting to see sex is much more likely used for other things opposed to what it is for in a normal relationship)

The answer to the question is both yes and no. Sex can be included in a story for just about any reason be it because it has to happen for the plot to move forward, because your lampooning something, or just because you paid your main actress $100 million dollars so she better show the audience something, damnit! It doesn't just have to be for the audience's cheap thrill.

On the other hand, yeah, some one is going to be a little more turned on than you hoped, or in some cases even want to know about. No helping it.

[t209]

I'd have to say that almost all of the sexual content of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was disturbing and not at all a case of fan service. Also, I really wish I'd had some warning what I was getting into when I agreed to watch it.

Well, I rather called it Fan Disservice since she looked hideous in my opinion.

[soir8]

Grow up around ducks, and never be shocked by anything again. Whatever people do, ducks do kinkier.

My first day working on a farm I saw one of the cows relieving herself... and the bull standing behind her lapping it up like a drinking fountain. I dread to even imagine what the ducks get up to. Animals are dirty, filthy perverts.

Back on topic, the Requiem For A Dream scene mentioned was really not a turn-on, which is impressive, because "2 hot naked women with a double-ended dildo", on paper sounds like soir8's digits & dingaling happy fun time, and I was not only NOT aroused but actually disgusted. Which is truly amazing if you've seen the porn I watch.

[Spuddles]

Most sex on television or movies tends to be highly sanitized. The overwhelming sentiment is that sex is always casual and inconsequential. I don't think pregnancies and STDs are necessary for a realistic portrayal, just a reasonable facsimile of emotional consequences or possibly bodies which aren't perfect -- like most of us have.

If I were to give two example, Breaking Bad and the Simpsons would be the two which immediately spring to mind.

Breaking Bad? I have only seen the first 3 seasons, but the ones that immediately spring to mind are Hank's lackluster bday handjob and then him attempting to get some from Lois in the kitchen post-cancer. Neither one were fanservice at all.