OOTS Kickstarter Bonus PDFs: The Discussion Thread *Unmarked spoilers*

[Chronos]

I didn't have any particularly strong feelings for a Therkla bonus story... but to get one, and it turns out to also be a Sangwaan bonus story? If I had contributed enough to pick a minor character for a bonus story, it probably would have been her.

And a masterful job it was, with fitting all of the pieces together.

[DreadArchon]

That was beautiful, 2-for-1 character background! Thanks Giant!

[Douglas]

As for seeing Therkla's death, my interpretation was that Shangwaan did give Therkla the antidote, and that, from her reaction, Therkla realised that. It's unclear to me if she saw Therkla's death as occuring later that night, prevented it, then after giving her the antidote saw her "next" death (hence agreeing to see next week and wishing her a good year) or if she never saw her first "death" at all because it never occurred (would she even have been poisoned if not for hanging out with Shangwaan, which is how she got the antidote? So it's possible she wouldn't have died either way and the time and fashion of her death were always the one we knew).

I try not to think about those things too much though. Prophecies and/or time travel can easily give me headaches.

My interpretation is that Sangwaan saw Therkla's actual death, dying of black lotus poison on a ship far from home, and either knew the date as well or figured getting in such a situation from her present location in Azure City was unlikely to happen soon.

Therkla had no clue about any antidote, but knew Sangwaan both knew about Therkla's death and had agreed to meeting her next week, and worked out that this combination implied Therkla's death was at the very least not going to be this week. Thus, Therkla could use whatever tactic she liked and be reasonably assured of survival.

[Lissou]

My interpretation is that Sangwaan saw Therkla's actual death, dying of black lotus poison on a ship far from home, and either knew the date as well or figured getting in such a situation from her present location in Azure City was unlikely to happen soon.

Therkla had no clue about any antidote, but knew Sangwaan both knew about Therkla's death and had agreed to meeting her next week, and worked out that this combination implied Therkla's death was at the very least not going to be this week. Thus, Therkla could use whatever tactic she liked and be reasonably assured of survival.

When I said Therkla knew that she had been given an antidote, I mean after the fact. When she's told she consumed the exact mix of herbs and alcohol to serve as an antidote, her reaction shows she understood that Sangwaan gave her an antidote and saved her life.

I agree with your interpretation but I wanted to clarify, as you seemed to think I though Therkla knew about the antidote before throwing herself onto the knife :)

[Onyavar]

I never thought Sangwaan was that young. I always pegged her as an elegant fifty-ish lady, not a depressed but humourous twenty-someone.

Still, even that much younger she comes across pretty wise. Being a seer, she made the best out of her life, and this comic only reinforces this perception of her character. It's both sad and inspiring.

Rich, it's wonderful that you took your time to craft this wonderfully composed story. I read it two times now, and despite it being relatively short, it adresses many points your readers wanted to know though we never realized it until we read about them. I suppose that this bonus story was - of all the kickstarter shorts you promised us - the most difficult to write, since you had to tie everything so that it fit into the main storyline.

There were light-hearted jokes, suspension, ironic hindsight-foreshadowings and tragedy, all packed in a little tale that (admittably) wasn't even necessary to know so that non-backers aren't cheated out of important content.

Bravo! Encore, Encore!

[factotum]

I never thought Sangwaan was that young. I always pegged her as an elegant fifty-ish lady, not a depressed but humourous twenty-someone.

Not sure why you thought that...the Giant has a very specific way of showing older people in his art style (the lines on the faces), and Sangwaan was never portrayed that way; I never thought she was older than her thirties, myself.

[TheBaffledKing]

I like Therkla’s role in the main comic, and I find the strips in which she makes her final appearances (including Elan’s speech at her grave) particularly moving.

And now you’ve somehow delivered a great story which also makes me appreciate the Therkla strips still further.

Wonderful stuff, Giant, thank you.

[Unregistered]

Just here to chime in: I liked the story as well very much, well done (though it didn't leave me as depressed as some here it seems).

[meep]

Not sure why you thought that...the Giant has a very specific way of showing older people in his art style (the lines on the faces), and Sangwaan was never portrayed that way; I never thought she was older than her thirties, myself.

I haven't thought much about the ages, except when explicitly stated or referred to.

Anyway, I rarely comment on the forums, but just wanted to say how excellent the story was.

I didn't find it depressing so much as touching.

Also, I've been in the situation Therkla was re: Harry Potter books. For most of the years, I had a full-time job, so I'd have to wait to the weekend to finish the books. I was particularly annoyed when people spoiled the ending of book 6. ;)

[avakeiya]

All I can picture now is Therkla and Sangwaan chilling in the afterlife with Thane and Shojo, cheering on the protagonists and getting drunk.

I hope that's a part of the endings when the OOtS story finally ends, just one page of the victorious dead getting closure and a final chance for one-liners.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm not sure any of those would be together. Shojo's CG, Thanh is LG, Therkla's TN and I'd guess Sangwaan's NG.

Which is another case of why the Great Wheel kind of sucks. You die, and never get to see any of your friends and family with different alignments again.

[Ron Miel]

Life isn't fair, why should the afterlife be?

[factotum]

Therkla's TN

Is she? I kind of had her more down as LN...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Is she? I kind of had her more down as LN...

Word of Giant is TN.

[Grey Watcher]

Is she? I kind of had her more down as LN...

Well, her loyalty to Kubota is less about respecting his position or maintaining personal honor as it is she is loyal to the one person who's been willing to give her a fair shot. Plus, on a meta level is makes sense for her to smack dab in between the Chaotic Good Elan and the Lawful Evil Kubota.

[avakeiya]

i just kind of assumed that eternal paradise included time spent with your friends, even if they aren't the exact same alignment. I mean, there are no rules saying they can't meet up in neutral territory (maybe literally) every once in a while. I'm sure Elan's eternal reward would involve seeing the rest of the order occasionally once they all pass away.

Speaking of the afterlife and such, apparently Rooster is the god of fortune telling. Is there any other bonus stuff telling of the roles of the rest of the Southern Gods? Or is this a direct real world 12 Zodiac meaning kind of thing?

[ti'esar]

Speaking of the afterlife and such, apparently Rooster is the god of fortune telling. Is there any other bonus stuff telling of the roles of the rest of the Southern Gods? Or is this a direct real world 12 Zodiac meaning kind of thing?

SOD establishes Rat is evil-aligned (apparently the only one).

[Ron Miel]

i just kind of assumed that eternal paradise included time spent with your friends, even if they aren't the exact same alignment. I mean, there are no rules saying they can't meet up in neutral territory (maybe literally) every once in a while. I'm sure Elan's eternal reward would involve seeing the rest of the order occasionally once they all pass away.

Elan himself thinks not.


I won't see you in the afterlife in that case
Because you're Lawful, and Chaotic Good am I
And I don't think they'll let me hang at your place.
O buddy Roy, O buddy Roy, why did you die?

[factotum]

Elan himself thinks not.

Elan not only isn't likely to have ranks in Knowledge (Religion) (or whatever would be required to know the answer to a metaphysical question like this), he's not the brightest candle in the box, so I don't think anything he says to be true can be assumed to be so; and even if you *do* assume that, the statement is hardly cut and dried when he's saying he doesn't "think" they'll be able to meet up.

[The Troubadour]

Oh, you devious, devious Giant. That was beautiful.

[malloyd]

Also lord Rooster seems to be kinda of jerk. Which fits.

Or particularly kindly. I think you can interpret "well played" as good job making me realize this is what I really wanted in advance, while working around the problem that knowing *I* was going to die soon would've defeated the whole unexpected thing it needed to have to qualify.

[NothingButCake]

Or is this a direct real world 12 Zodiac meaning kind of thing?

It's not, unless it is really stretching.

I vaguely remember Dragon being closely associated with paladins, but I may be making that up?

[Rogar Demonblud]

i just kind of assumed that eternal paradise included time spent with your friends, even if they aren't the exact same alignment. I mean, there are no rules saying they can't meet up in neutral territory (maybe literally) every once in a while. I'm sure Elan's eternal reward would involve seeing the rest of the order occasionally once they all pass away.

Speaking of the afterlife and such, apparently Rooster is the god of fortune telling. Is there any other bonus stuff telling of the roles of the rest of the Southern Gods? Or is this a direct real world 12 Zodiac meaning kind of thing?

Roosters in general have fortune telling aspects, since they 'foretell' the day by crowing. They're also sacrificed so their entrails can be read.

[Anarion]

Geez, I just finished the Therkla PDF. My feels, all of them. I think her story is incredibly sad precisely because her view of love and what she wants out of life is so childish. She's simple in so many ways and this PDF shows how the people around her never really respected how she felt, yet she's still loyal to them because it was the only place she could even get a shot at being successful at all.

[KillianHawkeye]

Damn, Giant........ Therkla + Sangwaan = MAXIMUM feels!

I'm surprised to say that I enjoyed this one even more than Belkar's story.

[busterswd]

Yet another person chiming in who didn't think he needed a Therkla story, and ended up being very pleasantly wrong.

Probably my favorite of the Kickstarter PDFs.

[Lord Torath]

I just realized that the rumble. rumble. rumble. on page 15 was from Miko's Fall. And it only took four read-throughs for me to catch it. <sigh>

[Lissou]

Yeah. I spotted the sound on the first read, but completely forgot about the sound made when Miko fell, so I thought it was Qarr trying to knock again (and I thought the guard saying it was wind was a reference to Therkla saying Qarr knocking is too quiet).

Took me until someone else pointed it out in this thread to realise I got it wrong.

[Cavenskull]

Not sure why you thought that...the Giant has a very specific way of showing older people in his art style (the lines on the faces), and Sangwaan was never portrayed that way; I never thought she was older than her thirties, myself.

Considering those tell-tale lines on the faces tend to be bags under the eyes, don't you think Sangwaan's blindfold might make it hard to tell whether or not they're there? Really, the only visible clue that Sangwaan wasn't particularly old was the fact that her hair hadn't shown any indication of gray yet. But not having graying hair in the comic still leaves a pretty wide age range.

On the other hand, Sangwaan's prominent presence among high-ranking individuals during the planning and initial stages of a major battle suggest that she's their most capable diviner, and generally it takes people quite a while to advance to high rank. Obviously Therkla's story tells us otherwise, but considering how diviner-type characters are generally depicted throughout fiction, it's understandable that one might expect Sangwaan to be much older than she really is.

[Kareasint]

I just realized that the rumble. rumble. rumble. on page 15 was from Miko's Fall. And it only took four read-throughs for me to catch it. <sigh>

Giant was establishing the time line in relation to the actual story. It was very nicely done also. I also enjoyed the insight into Sangwaan's character as well.