OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

[PrinceOfMadness]

Not certain if this has been mentioned already (I didn't read through all 13 pages) but in panel 7 it kind of looks like Malack's Greater Dispel Magic is chaining from Durkon off-panel...could have possibly chained to Belkar, negating the Hold Person? Or something else we're not seeing yet? A quick glance at the SRD shows that Dispel Magic can affect more than one target (a 20 foot burst, to be precise).

Edit: I also feel that Malack's tactical choices have largely been suboptimal thus far (and yes, I did see the Giant's earlier comments on this matter). Malack has always been portrayed as intelligent - I would be very surprised if he didn't have an ace in the hole.

Edit 2: On second glance, panel 4 shows Bolster Undead running off-panel from Malack as well. Unless there is some undead entity hiding behind Malack (Xykon?!?) it now seems unlikely that there is any significance to the spell effects running off-panel. Oh well.

[bguy]

Also, why wouldn't the spells he's so far used be useful against Xykon? Thor's Lightning admittedly won't, but Mass Death Ward will be insanely helpful against Xykon's Energy Drain/Finger of Death shenanigans, and Heal is always useful if popped against an Undead.

Start of Darkness Spoiler

Spoiler

Show

Xykon has a ring that protects him from Positive Energy attacks. Heal won't do anything to him.

[isoriveil]

Not certain if this has been mentioned already (I didn't read through all 13 pages) but in panel 7 it kind of looks like Malack's Greater Dispel Magic is chaining from Durkon off-panel...could have possibly chained to Belkar, negating the Hold Person? Or something else we're not seeing yet? A quick glance at the SRD shows that Dispel Magic can affect more than one target (a 20 foot burst, to be precise).

Actually, nice pick! Belkar lies further in that direction, and he is not shown after the Dispel.
Though it still could be not chaining, but merely going round the shield.

[LasVegasLawyer]

Not certain if this has been mentioned already (I didn't read through all 13 pages) but in panel 7 it kind of looks like Malack's Greater Dispel Magic is chaining from Durkon off-panel...could have possibly chained to Belkar, negating the Hold Person? Or something else we're not seeing yet? A quick glance at the SRD shows that Dispel Magic can affect more than one target (a 20 foot burst, to be precise).

Although possible, it wouldn't be a good idea tactically. Dispel can be targeted on a creature (Durkon) or an area (20' radius). While Malak might have been attempting to counteract the Death Ward for everyone in the area (including Mr. Scruffy), that auto-dispells the Hold against Belkar. Now, instead of one Cleric of equal (or greater) level, he'd be fighting against a melee character and a cleric. Unless his goal is to Dominate Belkar and make it a Cleric and melee character vs. Durkon...

[Forikroder]

Actually, nice pick! Belkar lies further in that direction, and he is not shown after the Dispel.
Though it still could be not chaining, but merely going round the shield.

although belkar is spcifically shown in the earlier panel... almsot as if the giant wanted to make sure we knew where he was...

and Durkons foot sticks out as far as his shield yet the aura doesnt leave the panel in taht one...

what if the OoTS verse doesnt obey the actual rules and Belkar is already a vampire so dispelling the hold is actually giving him a combatant

[Tanngrisnir]

I'm really hoping that V or Belkar don't join in for this fight.

I'm loving that this is Durkon's time to shine. Whether he triumphs or dies defending what he believes in, he should do it alone. Having someone else save him or steal the moment will cheapen it for me.

[Forikroder]

I'm really hoping that V or Belkar don't join in for this fight.

I'm loving that this is Durkon's time to shine. Whether he triumphs or dies defending what he believes in, he should do it alone. Having someone else save him or steal the moment will cheapen it for me.

plus hes the only order member whos hasnt a chance to fight alone and show off

[Ivrytwr]

Awesome-ness-ity squared!
I love the banter. Plus Mr Scruffy in the background tending to Belkar.

The Giant is well-deserving of his name. I just hope the pace of updates remains undisturbed. Guard your digits, sir!

[rewinn]

1. If Malack dominates an unHeld Belkar, what's to stop Durkon from doing the same? Belkar bouncing back and forth between clerics would be amusing!

2. Durkon's two "wooshes" in panel 8 suggest that Malack's got some sort of defense that's not obvious. One would expect Tarquin's BFF to have access to good equipment.

[Forikroder]

1. If Malack dominates an unHeld Belkar, what's to stop Durkon from doing the same? Belkar bouncing back and forth between clerics would be amusing!

2. Durkon's two "wooshes" in panel 8 suggest that Malack's got some sort of defense that's not obvious. One would expect Tarquin's BFF to have access to good equipment.

Malack would be dominating him as a vampire race ability not as a cleric so best durkon could do is dispell it (could be wrong)

also for number 2 Malack will have some AC enhancing spells, items and probalby a good bit of AC from being a vampire not odd Durkon missed (dont think Durkon would do much with Malacks DR anyway)

[MReav]

Start of Darkness Spoiler

Spoiler

Show

Xykon has a ring that protects him from Positive Energy attacks. Heal won't do anything to him.

Technically...

Spoiler

Show

We know he had one at one point. We don't know whether he still has it since he was blown up in Dungeon Crawling Fools.

[Tanngrisnir]

plus hes the only order member whos hasnt a chance to fight alone and show off

Exactly. I know he's not the most popular of characters in this story, but I've always loved him and have been waiting a long time for him to get some decent story time.

[LasVegasLawyer]

2. Durkon's two "wooshes" in panel 8 suggest that Malack's got some sort of defense that's not obvious. One would expect Tarquin's BFF to have access to good equipment.

Maybe he just has a better head for numbers.

[Math_Mage]

Technically...

Spoiler

Show

We know he had one at one point. We don't know whether he still has it since he was blown up in Dungeon Crawling Fools.

He still has a lot of other things from before he was blown up, like the material focus for Cloister, so it's probably safe to say that Rich handwaved his items.

[gorocz]

1. If Malack dominates an unHeld Belkar, what's to stop Durkon from doing the same? Belkar bouncing back and forth between clerics would be amusing!

I'm guessing the fact that Durkon is not a Vampire? Sorry about the sarcasm, couldn't help it . Dominate is a Vampire class feature, Dominate Person is an arcane spell and therefore not castable by Clerics...

[Tannhaeuser]

The clerics now go toe-to-toe
And how it will end none can know.
The comic is dense
With the building suspense:
Oh, Giant, ye spoil us so!

[rewinn]

Malack would be dominating him as a vampire race ability not as a cleric so best durkon could do is dispell it (could be wrong)

Hmmm that does make sense ...

... well, there's always Hold Person. It seems to work against Belkar pretty well !

[Nephrahim]

I'm guessing the fact that Durkon is not a Vampire? Sorry about the sarcasm, couldn't help it . Dominate is a Vampire class feature, Dominate Person is an arcane spell and therefore not castable by Clerics...

OR IS HE?!

[Alsadius]

I'm going to put my guess in writing - Belkar is going to escape from paralysis and be incredibly pissed off that Durkon didn't let him get turned into a vampire.

[Nephrahim]

I'm going to put my guess in writing - Belkar is going to escape from paralysis and be incredibly pissed off that Durkon didn't let him get turned into a vampire.

It occurred to me (And this is crazy) that Belkar could decide he'd rather be a vampire and attack Durkon outright right now. Switching teams, as it were.

But I doubt it.

[Haleth]

The clerics now go toe-to-toe
And how it will end, none can know.
The comic is dense
With the building suspense:
Oh, Giant, ye spoil us so!

My feelings exactly, except I can't write poetry to save my life.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Calling Dominate because of Malack foreshadowing with his "other benefits" line.

[Stormlock]

Kind of surprised everybody is counting Malack out of the fight so soon. Even assuming he's lower level than Durkon (and who knows what his level is, he likely gained nothing since becoming a vampire but maybe that didn't happen until he was level 15 or more) he can heal himself just as easily as Durkon can by converting spells to inflict wounds on himself, and is probably ahead in spell slots between not having to cast all of durkon's wards (Mass resist acid, death ward, who knows what else) and Holy Word besides. He's probably physically strong enough to grapple with him even if he used Thor's Might too. The fight could easily swing either way just by a saving throw or magical item. Or V could wander in, and probably take out both of them at once given their current states if he tried (or were made to try. *hint hint*) I wonder if he has access to Sunburst and if that would tear through whatever sunlight protection Malack uses.

Also, I really beg to differ on the whole 'vampire powers not worth the LA cost' thing. Sure, he might have more trouble winning a 1v1 with a spellcaster, but he's immortal and doesn't die by being reduced to 1 hp. Were he so inclined he could simply go live in a cave for a few hundred years until Durkon dies of old age. I know if I were a vampire cleric with 6th level spell slots I'd never leave home without Word of Recall. Malack is potentially the most dangerous opponent in the strip besides Xykon.

Though I imagine he'll be written out fairly quickly- the comic isn't big enough for two epic level foes and Rich has stated he already has an endgame in mind; and I doubt it involves Malack, who wasn't even around for the first 500 strips.

[Incom]

This would be one heck of a time for Belkar to finally make a Will save.

[Forikroder]

Technically...

Spoiler

Show

We know he had one at one point. We don't know whether he still has it since he was blown up in Dungeon Crawling Fools.

hes had alot of time to make another

[Wanderer]

Ah, using healing spells vs undead. I love it. I always love it. This is when clerics in 3.0 and 3.5 can really lay down the damage. Not that they can't do so at other times too, but they can REALLY be optimized for anti-undead work.

[Forikroder]

Kind of surprised everybody is counting Malack out of the fight so soon. Even assuming he's lower level than Durkon (and who knows what his level is, he likely gained nothing since becoming a vampire but maybe that didn't happen until he was level 15 or more) he can heal himself just as easily as Durkon can by converting spells to inflict wounds on himself, and is probably ahead in spell slots between not having to cast all of durkon's wards (Mass resist acid, death ward, who knows what else) and Holy Word besides. He's probably physically strong enough to grapple with him even if he used Thor's Might too. The fight could easily swing either way just by a saving throw or magical item. Or V could wander in, and probably take out both of them at once given their current states if he tried (or were made to try. *hint hint*) I wonder if he has access to Sunburst and if that would tear through whatever sunlight protection Malack uses.

Also, I really beg to differ on the whole 'vampire powers not worth the LA cost' thing. Sure, he might have more trouble winning a 1v1 with a spellcaster, but he's immortal and doesn't die by being reduced to 1 hp. Were he so inclined he could simply go live in a cave for a few hundred years until Durkon dies of old age. I know if I were a vampire cleric with 6th level spell slots I'd never leave home without Word of Recall. Malack is potentially the most dangerous opponent in the strip besides Xykon.

Though I imagine he'll be written out fairly quickly- the comic isn't big enough for two epic level foes and Rich has stated he already has an endgame in mind; and I doubt it involves Malack, who wasn't even around for the first 500 strips.

the problem is though that none of Malacks attacks will get through Durkons death ward

also if Malack is reduced to below 1 HP now he turns to gas and has X hours to get back to his coffin or he dies

but if Xykon gets killed then he rengerates after a few days and if it wasnt for redcloak his Phylactery would be in that super safe vault so Xykons lich template kicks Malacks Vampire template in the nads and laughs HARD

quite frankly malack is struggling hard to beat Durkon

[Stormlock]

Why would Malack need to use spells? He has +6 str modifier. He could just strangle Durkon to death.

And Vampire has a stronger LA than Lich for good reason: even with no other spells at all, Malack could at this point simply assume bat form after a quickened inflict on himself and stay there fast healing or flee quite rapidly). He has 10 lightning resist (and a good +4 reflex save between his bonus dex and free lightning reflexes feat), so even if Durkon has more lightning he's probably screwed. Hell, he could even spider climb onto the roof if he's got any decent spells to cast that don't require hands. Gaseous form renders him impossible to touch or melee even if Durkon could fly after him.

Vampires are STRONG.

Edit: I'd also like to note, that while he only has 2 hours to get back to his coffin, once there he only needs to stay for a single hour, then he can get right back up, fast heal to full in a few minutes, and fly back to kill whoever put him there.

[rewinn]

I'm guessing the fact that Durkon is not a Vampire? Sorry about the sarcasm, couldn't help it . Dominate is a Vampire class feature, Dominate Person is an arcane spell and therefore not castable by Clerics...

It's ok; I didn't Detect Sarcasm so if was intended, perhaps you want to use the Sarcasm Smilie ...

... but seriously, it's been a while since I leafed through those stapleboard beigecovered booklets. The spell lists for magic users vs. clerics always seemed to combine arbitrariness with randomness (e.g. clerics don't get a ranged attack or some sort of mental commanding effect as a 1st level spells?) I assume that it's all been cleared up and made simpler and more logical with the passage of time.

....while he only has 2 hours to get back to his coffin, once there he only needs to stay for a single hour, then he can get right back up, fast heal to full in a few minutes, and fly back to kill whoever put him there.

And as you pointed out above (and I believe I pointed out earlier) Word Of Recall is Malack's hole card. He would be a fool if his coffin wasn't in his WoR sanctuary. And what are the odds the sanctuary is fully stocked with an empire's worth of sending scrolls so he can report to Tarquin ... or even a Teleportation Scroll so he can rejoin the party (now that he knows where the pyramid is).

[Forikroder]

Why would Malack need to use spells? He has +6 str modifier. He could just strangle Durkon to death.

And Vampire has a stronger LA than Lich for good reason: even with no other spells at all, Malack could at this point simply assume bat form after a quickened inflict on himself and stay there fast healing or flee quite rapidly). He has 10 lightning resist (and a good +4 reflex save between his bonus dex and free lightning reflexes feat), so even if Durkon has more lightning he's probably screwed. Hell, he could even spider climb onto the roof if he's got any decent spells to cast that don't require hands. Gaseous form renders him impossible to touch or melee even if Durkon could fly after him.

Vampires are STRONG.

Edit: I'd also like to note, that while he only has 2 hours to get back to his coffin, once there he only needs to stay for a single hour, then he can get right back up, fast heal to full in a few minutes, and fly back to kill whoever put him there.

but bleedingham is a few days away so if Malack gets killed now hes dead

basically all of your points are only ways for Malack to escape, alot of them would be helpful if he was a fighter fighting another fighter but practically none of his class abilities help in Cleric VS Cleric