V for vegetarian?

[Sky_Schemer]

They are food and don't contain meat, ergo they are a vegetarian dish. It's not a particularly exclusive category.

To be fair, muffins can be made with lard which can be significantly more objectionable to a vegetarian than, say, butter.

[Porthos]

To be fair, muffins can be made with lard which can be significantly more objectionable to a vegetarian than, say, butter.

'Cruelty free' muffins, then.

[SiuiS]

Oh, cool. A vegetarian Giant.!

[Ron Miel]

Wait, why are people implying banana nut muffins are a vegetarian dish? Are meat muffins a popular thing?

Ever seen McDonald's breakfast menu?

[thereaper]

Guys, guys. Just because one character of a particular race happens to be vegetarian does not mean the entire race is.

Furthermore, it's not some covert statement by the author about vegetarianism (or other diets).

It just means that a single character happens to be a vegetarian. Nothing more.

[Ron Miel]

Well said.

[Bird]

Guys, guys. Just because one character of a particular race happens to be vegetarian does not mean the entire race is.

It does not entail that "the entire race" is such, no. But -- especially in a fantasy context -- it may be indicative of such.

Let's take Celia's case. Consider that she as well as her two faerie friends all appear to be vegan. It's entirely plausible that veganism or vegetarianism are species-wide traits. Could be a cultural thing, or they could be physically incapable of digesting meat. (I grant that "all three happen to be vegans" is also a possibility.)

V's case would be on shakier ground, I think, because we don't have much evidence of other vegetarian elves, and we may have a harder time accepting that non-magical beings are all alike. (The Giant has indicated, for instance, that he is more comfortable with blatantly supernatural creatures being "always" one alignment than he is with respect to non-supernatural creatures like goblins.)

On a related point, the strip has, in the past, lampshaded the fact that fantasy races often have monocultures in which all individuals are practically indistinguishable from the others. Durkon loves his beer, as does every other dwarf. We don't have evidence to say that this is in fact the case with V's vegetarianism -- and there may be very good reasons to suspect that it is not the case -- but you can't fault folks for pursuing it as a line of inquiry or speculation.

[ti'esar]

We do have an additional reason for believing the elves are somewhat monocultural: unlike some of the other races, but like the dwarves, they appear to only have a single nation (one which largely keeps to itself, even).

[Raimun]

I wouldn't like that to be true.

I don't like the idea that Elves have to be vegetarian because they're a wiser and superior race.

I don't see your concern. Elves don't have a bonus to Wisdom.

Edit: Also, most people would agree human racial bonuses are superior to what elves get.

[CRtwenty]

I don't see your concern. Elves don't have a bonus to Wisdom.

Edit: Also, most people would agree human racial bonuses are superior to what elves get.

Well excluding that whole lifespan thing. Though there's a funny bit regarding that in the Origin of PCs.

[Morty]

On a related point, the strip has, in the past, lampshaded the fact that fantasy races often have monocultures in which all individuals are practically indistinguishable from the others. Durkon loves his beer, as does every other dwarf. We don't have evidence to say that this is in fact the case with V's vegetarianism -- and there may be very good reasons to suspect that it is not the case -- but you can't fault folks for pursuing it as a line of inquiry or speculation.

Yes, we can. V has shown plenty of traits no other elves share with her - Lirian, Inkyrius and the specieist commander aren't nearly as loquacious. Nor do they evoke first and ask questions later. V's vegetarianism is just that - V's vegetarianism. It's nonsensical to take it as a hint it's more common among elves than among any other race. Or are we going to start assuming halflings are knife murderers until proven otherwise?

[Kish]

Clearly, the reason Serini was able to convince the rest of the Order of the Scribble to go along with her proposed compromise was because they knew her second offer would be "I murder you all."

What?

[Ron Miel]

V's vegetarianism is just that - V's vegetarianism. It's nonsensical to take it as a hint it's more common among elves than among any other race.

One thing that occurs to me. The Elven ambassador was among the diners at Tarquin's banquet.

Yes, I know it was Z in disguise. But if he was pretending to be a vegetarian elf, he would have declined the invitation.

I deduce, therefore, that not all elves are vegetarian. And Z certainly isn't.

[BenjCano]

Yes, V is a vegetarian.

Self-Godwin: You know you what other mass murderer was also a vegetarian?

[The Succubus]

Is there anyway we can use this new-found knowledge to determine V's gender?

[mrzomby]

Ever seen McDonald's breakfast menu?

Most of what mcdonalds makes is not actually food though.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Tolkien's elves are all vegetarian, I believe.

[Domino Quartz]

Tolkien's elves are all vegetarian, I believe.

Why do you think that?

[Warren Dew]

Tolkien's elves are all vegetarian, I believe.

There's quite a bit about elves hunting in Tolkien. I suppose they could have used just the skins and left the meat to the wolves, but that doesn't seem terribly likely to me.

[veti]

Tolkien's elves are all vegetarian, I believe.

In 'The Hobbit', the wood elves are specifically described as roasting meat in their Mirkwood BBQs:

"The smell of the roast meats was so enchanting that, without waiting to consult one another, every one of them got up and scrambled forwards into the ring with the one idea of begging for some food."

[Bird]

Yes, we can. V has shown plenty of traits no other elves share with her - Lirian, Inkyrius and the specieist commander aren't nearly as loquacious. Nor do they evoke first and ask questions later. V's vegetarianism is just that - V's vegetarianism. It's nonsensical to take it as a hint it's more common among elves than among any other race. Or are we going to start assuming halflings are knife murderers until proven otherwise?

Please note that I did at no point assume that elves are all vegetarians. I have not claimed that all elves are vegetarians, that all elves are likely to be vegetarians, or that I believe all elves are vegetarians. My quite modest position is that "vegetarianism as a cultural or biological trait for elves is an interesting thing to speculate about." That's all. Such a position does not even carry a burden of proof, I would argue, since it comes down to our individual preferences and interests.

I agree that V shows traits not shown by other elves, and that folks have not discussed the possibility of these being species-wide traits. V is not identical to all other elves. Cheerfully granted.

Folks on the gender debate thread have floated the all-elves-are-gender-ambiguous idea, which I find to be both unlikely and contradicted by the comic, but it is something fun to think about.

I agree we should not assume all halflings are knife murderers. (Though as an aside, Dark Sun halflings are a bit like that.) Strong reasons for discarding this hypothesis include:

1. Knife murdering is a wild contradiction of the stereotypical depiction of halflings.
2. The comic has clearly indicated that Belkar is abnormal in this respect.

I think the vegetarianism for elves claim is substantively different. To give one reason, it's possible to imagine vegetarianism fitting in with the stereotypical portrayal of elves. As a matter of fact, if we think of the popular close-to-nature representation of their race, it would make a sort of sense.

Again, it would be very similar to the "all dwarves like beer" claim, or the "all elves are trained to use a bow" claim, which are true or near-true as directly evidenced by the comic. D&D and fantasy literature in general are chock full of that stuff. And as ti'esar pointed out, the fact that all the elves come from the same secluded nation opens up the possibility that they have a standard fantasy monoculture, as the dwarves appear to have.

If someone wanted to say that the conception of elves as hunters contradicts the idea of elves as vegetarians, that'd be fine, but I think that vegetarianism would be an interesting twist on elves' nature-oriented ways.

Spoiler

Show

Final point: part of the reason that I find the race-wide idea interesting is that it might be odd for V to be an ethical vegetarian while also being all about blowing monsters up with magic for most of his life. Vegetarianism as a cultural or biological trait would explain this away. Of course, it's VERY possible to have internal contradictions in character and actions, so this doesn't prove anything. Yes, a mass murderer can be a vegetarian, even an ethical vegetarian. It's just a thought.

One thing that occurs to me. The Elven ambassador was among the diners at Tarquin's banquet.

Yes, I know it was Z in disguise. But if he was pretending to be a vegetarian elf, he would have declined the invitation.

I deduce, therefore, that not all elves are vegetarian. And Z certainly isn't.

I was thinking about the same thing, yeah. However, we don't know what Z was eating, and it's entirely possible that:

--Z accepted the invitation without considering what would be on the menu, or
--A special vegetarian meal was prepared in advance for Z.

(They didn't prepare a special meal for Malack, but we all know why that wasn't the case.)

By the way, thanks for making this thread.

[Ellye]

I'm amazed by the fact that, even after reading this comic multiple times throughout almost a decade, there's still some cool little details to be found on it.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Why do you think that?

Because in Fellowship, when the hobbits run into the elves as they leave the Shire, the elven food conspicuously lacks meat (which Samwise complains about). Also, no meat in Rivendell if I remember correctly.

I am apparently mistaken, though.

[137beth]

Tolkien's elves are all vegetarian, I believe.

Well then, it's a good thing that OOTS elves are a new species created by a still-living author, based on creatures of ancient mythology, and are unrelated to the writings of one particular dead modern author

(They didn't prepare a special meal for Malack, but we all know why that wasn't the case.)

Ooo! Now I can derail on a tangent
They could easily have prepared a special meal for Malack without anyone realizing what it was. He even prepared his own drink and gave some to Durkon.

I'm amazed by the fact that, even after reading this comic multiple times throughout almost a decade, there's still some cool little details to be found on it.

Agreed, that's what I like about this series.

Is there anyway we can use this new-found knowledge to determine V's gender?

No

Most All of what mcdonalds makes is not actually food though.

Fixed for you.

[veti]

Well then, it's a good thing that OOTS elves are a new species created by a still-living author, based on creatures of ancient mythology, and are unrelated to the writings of one particular dead modern author

More like, they're an interpretation of a race described in game materials that owe an enormous amount to Tolkien. To claim that there's a line of descent going (Ancient Norse or Gaelic folklore -> Rich Burlew), without Tolkien as an intermediate step, is just surreal.

[Surprise!]

Always knew.

[King of Nowhere]

Well, I noticced that he often didn't eat meat when others were, but wasn't keeping track of it.

I find amusing that the person who single-handedly committed genocide on a sentient race is also the same person who won't kill animals for humanitarian concerns.
As others pointed out, it is not without precedent in our world.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I find amusing that the person who single-handedly committed genocide on a sentient race is also the same person who won't kill animals for humanitarian concerns.

That is kind of funny but I think it's relevant to mention there are several reasons besides "humanitarian concerns" for not eating animals, and V's are never stated.

[Acanous]

Well, I noticced that he often didn't eat meat when others were, but wasn't keeping track of it.

I find amusing that the person who single-handedly committed genocide on a sentient race is also the same person who won't kill eat animals for humanitarian dietary concerns.
As others pointed out, it is not without precedent in our world.

Fixed that for you.
V has killed a number of animals in the past. That he won't EAT animals is demonstratably not a moral choice, but a dietary one.

[Ron Miel]

Fixed that for you.
V has killed a number of animals in the past. That he won't EAT animals is demonstratably not a moral choice, but a dietary one.

Not at all. That doesn't follow.