The Heroic Expert: 'I am not a rogue.' (Improved NPC)

[Ralasha]

The Expert: A master of many knowledges and works. Not a warrior, nor a spellcaster. Not a rogue, nor a bard.

A craftsman, a scholar, a sage, the Expert can be any, or in some cases even all of these things.

HD: D6

Class Skills: All
Skill Points Per Level: 8+Int Mod.

{table=Header]Level|BAB|RS|FS|WS|Special|0
1|0|2|0|2|Trapfinding|-
2|1|3|0|3|Skill Focus|1
3|2|3|1|3||1
4|3|4|1|4|Bonus Feat|1
5|3|4|1|4|Skill Mastery|2
6|4|5|2|5|Skill Focus|2
7|5|5|2|5||3
8|6|6|2|6|Bonus Feat|3
9|6|6|3|6||3
10|7|7|3|7|Skill Focus, Skill Mastery|4
11|8|7|3|7||4
12|9|8|4|8|Bonus Feat|5
13|9|8|4|8||5
14|10|9|4|9|Skill Focus|5
15|11|9|5|9|Skill Mastery|6
16|12|10|5|10|Bonus Feat|6
17|12|10|5|10||7
18|13|11|6|11|Skill Focus|7
19|14|11|6|11||7
20|15|12|6|12|Skill Supremacy|8[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The expert is proficient with any arms or armors it has crafted personally, as well as all simple weapons, and light armors.

Trapfinding: An expert is capable of finding and identifying traps, as a rogue of it's level.

Skill Focus: Choose a skill in which the expert has maximum ranks, it gains skill focus as a class bonus to that skill, so long as it remains at maximum ranks.

Bonus Feat: The expert may chose a feat from the list found below:

Skill Mastery: The expert may chose a number of skills equal to it's intelligence modifier. It gains a +2 class bonus to these skills, and may choose to take a 10 on checks with that skill, even while under duress, or distracted.

Skill Supremacy: The expert may now take a 20 with the skills it has chosen for skill mastery. Taking a 20 on these skills is treated as rolling normally, except that the character may do so under the same conditions as though using skill mastery.

Feat List: Acrobatic, Alertness, Arcane Talent, Athletic, Blind Fight, Breadth of Experience, Cooperative Crafting, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Divine Talent, Dodge, Endurance, Fleet, Master Alchemist, Master Craftsman, Nimble Moves, Persuasive, Self Sufficient, Shield Proficiency, Skill Focus, Stealthy, Throw Anything.

0: The expert has the ability to draw on a very limited number of spells per day as a cleric. The DC for these spells is determined by the expert's intelligence modifier. These spells are drawn from the cleric and wizard spell lists.

[Omnicrat]

I like the theory, but this class is very underpowered.

The skill bonuses are way too low for for the class to be worth it.

Does it only cast level 0 spells? If so, why? Its so few spells that its not worth any of this.

As is, this class seems more like an NPC Expert fix than a heroic expert.

[EdroGrimshell]

I like the theory, but this class is very underpowered.

The skill bonuses are way too low for for the class to be worth it.

Does it only cast level 0 spells? If so, why? Its so few spells that its not worth any of this.

As is, this class seems more like an NPC Expert fix than a heroic expert.

Actually, I'd play this, I'm in a low magic setting right now planning to make an alchemist, and this would help greatly with it. Though I would give some extra options.

[Fruchtkracher]

Also the dead levels are quite painfully and way too numerous.

I mean look at level 13 for example, where you gain nothing but a few hitpoints.
I'd add a skill trick or rogue talent on those levels.

[Steward]

Actually, I'd play this, I'm in a low magic setting right now planning to make an alchemist, and this would help greatly with it. Though I would give some extra options.

Is it strictly better than a factotum though? I definitely like the concept but I'm a little confused as to why having 8 0th-level spells as well as small boons for skill uses is worth a 20 level class. I think the class would be great if it filled in some of the dead levels and/or had more than cantrips/orisons to call on.

[Loki_42]

These spells are drawn from the cleric/wizard spell lists.

Assuming it's not a typo, this could be very good. Oh, wait, is it only cantrips? Never mind, then.

[Kornaki]

Skill supremacy lets you take 20 on skills... does it still take 20 times longer though? Because it's not clear how that would work when you're "under duress" - if I'm in combat taking 20 rounds on a take 20 and rolling and hoping I get a 20 are mechanically quite similar.

If I could just auto get a 20 on these skills whenever I wanted to the ability could be pretty good, but probably not a 20th level capstone

[ngilop]

the spell casting needs a MUCH better explanation than cast a a cleric fron cleric/wizard list.


At first just from seeing the table I thought it was going to be invocations.


also I would put skill mastery at every 3rd level make it onlt one skill and and let you add 1/2 yoru class level as an insight bonus, boot skill supremncy down to like 17th allow you to a number of times per day equal to intelligence modifer take 20, with no increase in time.

then give them soem kinda cool capstone that has to do with stuff.

[Yitzi]

Would probably be improved by the addition of bonus skilltricks, possibly including ones that aren't available normally.

[Ralasha]

Performed correction to intended outcome of skill supremacy.

[Transcendent]

looks cool could just use a boost in power.

[eftexar]

Though this probably wouldn't be too great for a PC, I think this actually works great for an NPC class. The original ones were quite sparse and this adds some actual options without getting too complicated.
It could also be used to gestalt with a tier 4, or lower class, to provide some extra options.

But if the intent here is for a player class, but to still leave it somewhat undefined and open, access to 4th level spells would probably bring it into playable range.

[Seharvepernfan]

I like it, but it's not a PC-class, is it? I might use this as a replacement for NPC experts.

[ideasmith]

The Expert: A master of many knowledges and works. Not a warrior, nor a spellcaster. Not a rogue, nor a bard.

A craftsman, a scholar, a sage, the Expert can be any, or in some cases even all of these things.[/B]

A similar class can be found here.

Though this probably wouldn't be too great for a PC, I think this actually works great for an NPC class. The

original ones were quite sparse and this adds some actual options without getting too complicated.

NPC classes are supposed to be sparse.

[eftexar]

I realize that, but there is a difference between sparse and completely vacant though. The normal NPCs aren't even semi-competent enough to fulfill their roll as stage hands.
They might as well have made the NPC a blurb in the glossary like monster types instead of wasting space with empty tables.

[ngilop]

the spell castign still makes no sense tome

they cast spells as a cleric and from the cleric/wizard list yes I get that part idk why you bolded the latter


is it just zero levle spells

all you say is literally they cast spells liek this from list A and list B

so i could actually cast 9th level spells as a 2nd level heroci expert? or what

im osrry if i sound mean but you really need to clarify what the spellcasting for this class all entails.

[Yitzi]

I realize that, but there is a difference between sparse and completely vacant though. The normal NPCs aren't even semi-competent enough to fulfill their roll as stage hands.

I think they're good NPCs to parallel the tier 5 PC classes.

[Ralasha]

It is, in fact, supposed to be an NPC class. It has 0th level spells, that is all.

In so far as that being useless goes, there are many 0th level spells which are utilitarian in nature. Detect magic, or stabilize as an example.

Heroic is in the title to distinguish it from a standard expert.

If I were to convert an NPC class into a PC class... it wouldn't be the Expert, it would be the Adept. However, my intention is to make the NPC classes more... feasible.

It makes no sense for every NPC historian to be a wizard/sorcerer/etc. They are supposed to be NPCs, not Non Player-heroes.

[Dethklok]

It makes no sense for every NPC historian to be a wizard/sorcerer/etc. They are supposed to be NPCs, not Non Player-heroes.

Agreed. (And older games had sages and scribes to fill that role, although they may not have been as interesting as this Heroic Expert.)

[Ralasha]

I think next... What NPC class should I remake next... Hmmm...

Warrior is a fighter with no feats.

Adept is a combo wizard/cleric with no actual abilities. I may remake it as a shaman.

Should I try my hand at making a PF Warlock? I'm not certain if one exists...

[Omnicrat]

When you title something "The Heroic Expert: 'I am not a rogue,'" it implies you are making a skill-based class without the forced-stealth aspects of rogues. It does not imply a better expert NPC class.

[Ralasha]

Implications are not facts. What something suggests... is not necessarily what it is. Generally, when one is faced with something that does not appear correct, one would ask a question.

[Omnicrat]

What you are trying to make is not what you said you were trying to make. People will critique and comment on this class called a heroic expert. There is nothing heroic about NPC classes, that's the point. Specifically referencing the PC skill-focused class in your title and never once (until directly prompted) saying it is supposed to be an NPC class makes people think its a PC class even more.

What it seems like you did was post a misleading title to get comments on your NPC class. If that is not the case, I recommend you change the title to reflect your actual intent. If that is the case, I have the same recommendation along with a request to not do that in the future.

[Temotei]

Do you have to prepare your 0-level spells or are they spontaneous?

[Ralasha]

Do you have to prepare your 0-level spells or are they spontaneous?

Since the classes description answers this... let me answer you with a question... does it say 'as a cleric'? And if it does... Does a cleric prepare it's spells?

0: The expert has the ability to draw on a very limited number of 0th level spells per day as a cleric. The DC for these spells is determined by the expert's intelligence modifier. These spells are drawn from the cleric and wizard spell lists.