Word of Recall

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Grey Wolf, it may not be great for his XP total, but he only needs to do it once, and it beats everything out of burning to death. Or being Soul Trapped, or whatever else he might be running from.

What he will be running from is a concerted attack on him. On a regular day, that means someone infiltrating the palace, and going after top-level officials. If the attack is dangerous enough to require WoR, it will be because his enemies are genre-savvy and have done their homework. In which case, doing something as predictable as WoR is just asking to be killed.

I remain unconvinced that for Malack, specifically, WoR is a better FUBAR spell than PfD. They both are subject to a one-spell block: greater dispel magic and dimensional anchor - except dispel is a level 6, while anchor is a level 4 that always works, thus making WoR easier to counter. And Malack has got the most to fear from the Sun, the one thing that can truly destroy him, and thus quite logically, put two spell slots towards that. Wasting a 6th level spell slot on a spell that pretty much does the same thing as turning into mist and running for it is a waste of a magical slot - with the added problem that as mist, he can still pick and choose were to go, while WoR means the destination is set in advance, and anyone that knows clerics, it seems, expects him to have it as the last resort.

Add any Divination obscuring techniques you'd like.

Divination obscuring techniques in an otherwise unremarkable place is like putting up a massive neon sign saying "Something important hidden here! Come take a look!"

Grey Wolf

[BroomGuys]

(SoD spoiler)

Spoiler

Show

Malack not having a WoR scroll is along the same lines as Dorukan not having a ring that protects from negative energy.

In general, I think it's important to remember that not everybody in the audience has the body of knowledge to come up with "why didn't X character do Y" sorts of questions like this. I, for instance, didn't even know there was such a thing as a WoR scroll, because I've never played D&D. From my perspective, this scene worked perfectly: I fully believed that Malack had no way out unless he burrowed into the sand or Durkon got back in time with the staff, and it was wonderfully dramatic that Malack tried to take Nale with him and failed.

Considering that Rich has outright stated that he does not care about rules lawyering, I think pursuing the internal logic of the comic so rigorously can sort of miss the point. Some readers don't even know Y action exists, and for those that do, it's easy to overstate the degree to which quasi "plot holes" are a problem (see also: the eagles in LoTR). The art of storytelling has so much more going on than logical consistency, so srsly guys, let's re-read the punchline to #904 again.

[Dalek Kommander]

I expect Nale to fail because his plans have always failed. Heck, even he expects his plans to fail.

Nale doesn't expect his plans to be foiled by heroes because he's incompetent, he expects his plans to be foiled by heroes because they are heroes. As much as he might try to tell himself that he has nothing in common with his father or his brother, Nale has the family gift for genre awareness, at least enough to eventually realize there is something unnatural about being able to gloat at a hero caught in a trap for as long as he wants without anything going wrong.

But Malack wasn't a hero, he was a fellow villain. The genre conventions regarding villains stabbing each other in the back strongly favors the one who stabs first, especially if it comes as a suprise and re-establishes the underestimated villain as legitimately dangerous. It's more dramatic that way!

Nale probably regrets only having one round to gloat over Malack before he burned to ash, but maybe it was for the best. Once you tell someone you murdered their children as a practice run, saying too much more after that runs the risk of being anticlimactic.

[NerdyKris]

I'd like to point out something else here. The only clever thing we've seen Malack do is work that back door into Durkon's spell and always prepare two castings of protection from sunlight. Basically, the bare bones neccessary to protect himself. And the grappling technique for drinking.


I think a lot of people are applying some sort of super genius to a character who has displayed none of that. Looking back, there were the same complaints during the Durkon fight, asking why Malack wasn't as effective as he "should" have been. All the evidence we've seen from the two fights he's been in show him as NOT being clever or particularly experienced in battle.

We have no idea how he's survived 200 years. A lot of people are assuming that takes extreme genius. It doesn't. He makes a few friends, gets a position in a temple, and sits pretty for centuries. We've seen nothing that shows him as being a regular adventurer except one reference to him doing "something" with Tarquin. That something could have been a trip to the market, for all we know.

Nale won because he has experience taking on people more powerful than him. He took advantage of a situation Malack never would have thought about. This isn't bad writing for Malack. Because Malack has never been established as having any sort of experience defending himself while alone. Most of the arguments for Malack being smarter in this fight rely on assumptions being made that aren't backed up in the comic. Malack simply isn't as awesome as we've been assuming.

[Dalek Kommander]

Considering that Rich has outright stated that he does not care about rules lawyering, I think pursuing the internal logic of the comic so rigorously can sort of miss the point. Some readers don't even know Y action exists, and for those that do, it's easy to overstate the degree to which quasi "plot holes" are a problem (see also: the eagles in LoTR). The art of storytelling has so much more going on than logical consistency, so srsly guys, let's re-read the punchline to #904 again.

This isn't even proper rules lawyering, it's CHOICE lawyering. It's actually the lawyers who are failing to realize that "Y action exists", where Y is any choice that in hindsight wasn't optimal.

And arguably preparing word of recall wasn't actually the optimal choice even in hindsight, since Nale has clearly been studying Malack's spell-preperation habits for years and could have arranged for the imp to cast dimension anchor if it was actually necissary.

No, the ACTUAL optimal choice would have been order Durkon to attack Z and cast slay living on Nale before Nale drank the potion of negative energy resistance, instead of warning Nale that "there may be consequences for failure" (all but stating outright he was a dead man walking) and blithely waiting for Nale to act on the warning. He could have done that just because Nale had failed, never mind conciously recognising Nale as a legitimate threat. But I'm not mad that Malack didn't attack first, because it was perfectly in character for him to choose contempt and patience over impulsiveness or paranoia.

[Math_Mage]

Scroll of WoR would take two actions to cast. Malack doesn't have two actions to use. What's the line? The only thing worse than irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry?

Besides, we know where Malack stores spells he considers critical but not necessary to prep every day: his staff. Which, y'know, wouldn't help in this situation.

[pendell]

No, I don't. Why? A mere twelve strips earlier, we were witness to this staggeringly implausible feat of incompetence on Nale's part.

I didn't find it implausible.

Because "smart" and "stupid" are not binary on/off switches. I personally am fairly smart about computers, but am still clueless about how to sell things.

There are things Nale is very good at , and things he is not.

He is very good at playing a hypocritical front, acting a role. He's fooled the OOTS repeatedly.

What he is NOT good at , because he is lawful, is spotting other people's cons games. Haley's lecture on shell games , given to Roy and Hinjo -- and Roy has a very high intelligence -- applies every bit as much to Nale as it does to those two.

It's a common failing of lawful types in OOTS world. They are often able to pull off a con on others (Hinjo disguising as a bush to trap Therkla, Redcloak creating the three decoys) but they often aren't nearly as good at spotting it when it's done to them.

The reason the OOTS saw through it while the LG failed is because the LG at this point is composed entirely of Lawful individuals. Even then, they didn't fall for it at once. They checked it out with detect magic and true seeing and locate object. When all their magical sensors failed to detect anything out of the ordinary, they believed the illusion. Because that's their blind spot -- they believe what their magic tells them. The idea that the gate would be protected by, not an ultra-sophisticated magical charm, but by a simple box made of lead sheeting, was completely outside their thinking process.

The OOTS figured it out because they have Haley in the group who, as chaotic, doesn't share Roy's blind spot. And Roy has a well-foreshadowed knowledge of engineering which made him suspicious of the wall.

And say what you like about it, no one can possibly complain that his ranks in engineering are Deus Ex because that particular fact about Roy was well established and foreshadowed in advance. That's good writing , that is.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ghosty]

...And arguably preparing word of recall wasn't actually the optimal choice even in hindsight, since Nale has clearly been studying Malack's spell-preperation habits for years and could have arranged for the imp to cast dimension anchor if it was actually necissary.

No, the ACTUAL optimal choice would have been order Durkon to attack Z and cast slay living on Nale before Nale drank the potion of negative energy resistance, instead of warning Nale that "there may be consequences for failure" (all but stating outright he was a dead man walking) and blithely waiting for Nale to act on the warning. He could have done that just because Nale had failed, never mind conciously recognising Nale as a legitimate threat. But I'm not mad that Malack didn't attack first, because it was perfectly in character for him to choose contempt and patience over impulsiveness or paranoia.

FWIW, I've argued that Z did cast DA; the Giant just chose not to show it on panel. The imp can't cast it, or at least, shouldn't be able to by RAW. (Then again, the imp shouldn't have been able to shoot at Blackwing with whatever he was shooting with either.) Otherwise your suggestion'd be a great tactic, with not having to rely on Z winning initiative in the second round. Cat's Grace though would help Z win initiative, along with any other applicable buffs, and all of the prep could be bluffed as just preparing for a fight with the Order in the pit.

Coat, I think, mentioned, either here or in #906 discussion, that Malack and D should have attacked Nale and Z from the 'ooom!' in Boom! No reason not to, really. I admittedly didn't think about it when I was reading 905 though. Anyway, with the Gate gone, Nale's knowledge of same is rather worthless, and any Business should be already concluded. Further, with only the extant Pro Daylight available + whatever's in the staff, stuck out in broad daylight, and both enemies able to cast Dispel, both sides strike me as more Glass Cannon than not. So why not attack?

I agree with you though, that it's in character for someone who thinks they've everything completely under control, to wait until Tarquin gives the O.K. This has the bonus of letting Nale stew in the knowledge of his near-future annihilation. The problem is that Malack forgot that the enemy gets a vote on your battle plan too.

Math Mage, doesn't Slay Living take a standard action to cast, and an standard action to make the touch attack? If so, how does that differ from pull the scroll (standard action) and cast the spell (standard action)?

[Snails]

We have no idea how he's survived 200 years. A lot of people are assuming that takes extreme genius. It doesn't. He makes a few friends, gets a position in a temple, and sits pretty for centuries. We've seen nothing that shows him as being a regular adventurer except one reference to him doing "something" with Tarquin. That something could have been a trip to the market, for all we know.

In fact, to survive 200 years and be merely ECL 20 (or CR 15) argues against significant adventuring prowess. He is averaging somewhere south of one decent fight per year, if PC experience rules apply.

If he has much experience, most of those fights were walkovers where he gained zero experience. Nale's ambush would be one of the small minority of combats with a level playing field.

Another way to look at it: Malack must have survived for >150 years while relying on abilities other than Word of Recall. The idea that WoR is not really necessary, from Malack's POV, has been adequately proven. While perhaps not optimal (by some definition), such a point of view is complete reasonable.

[Rakoa]

Pendell, the Giant has confirmed that Zz'dtri is Neutral Evil and has implied that Nale isn't Lawful. Though I do agree they are unable to detect cons, I wouldn't attach it to their alignments in this case.

[Klear]

In general, I think it's important to remember that not everybody in the audience has the body of knowledge to come up with "why didn't X character do Y" sorts of questions like this. I, for instance, didn't even know there was such a thing as a WoR scroll, because I've never played D&D. From my perspective, this scene worked perfectly: I fully believed that Malack had no way out unless he burrowed into the sand or Durkon got back in time with the staff, and it was wonderfully dramatic that Malack tried to take Nale with him and failed.

In general, yes, but in this case the spell has already been demonstrated. I don't know much about DnD as well and while it didn't occur to me that Malack could have used that to escape (frankly, AFAIK he could have used any other teleporting spell), I immediately knew what everybody is talking about in this thread.

That said, I found the scene to work perfectly as well. I especially enjoyed it since I realized what is going on after reading Nale's line about the weather, just as my eyes turned to the frame where he steals the staff. I stopped reading, reread the beginning again, and realized Malack won't unlive to see another night.

[Snails]

The imp can't cast it, or at least, shouldn't be able to by RAW. (Then again, the imp shouldn't have been able to shoot at Blackwing with whatever he was shooting with either.)

Simply zapping Malack with whatever that ray was is probably sufficient to disrupt a spell. So the Imp being a potential counter on Nale's side of the equation is proven.

Z is more than high level enough to have a familiar superior to a mere Improved Familiar. That the Imp was shooting at blackwing supports this idea. My guess: 4 or 5 levels of Sorceror.

If the Imp has class levels, he can easily be using a Wand of Dimensional Anchor. He might even succeed with a measly scroll.

[Mutant Sheep]

I'd like to point out something else here. The only clever thing we've seen Malack do is work that back door into Durkon's spell and always prepare two castings of protection from sunlight. Basically, the bare bones neccessary to protect himself. And the grappling technique for drinking.


I think a lot of people are applying some sort of super genius to a character who has displayed none of that. Looking back, there were the same complaints during the Durkon fight, asking why Malack wasn't as effective as he "should" have been. All the evidence we've seen from the two fights he's been in show him as NOT being clever or particularly experienced in battle.

We have no idea how he's survived 200 years. A lot of people are assuming that takes extreme genius. It doesn't. He makes a few friends, gets a position in a temple, and sits pretty for centuries. We've seen nothing that shows him as being a regular adventurer except one reference to him doing "something" with Tarquin. That something could have been a trip to the market, for all we know.

Nale won because he has experience taking on people more powerful than him. He took advantage of a situation Malack never would have thought about. This isn't bad writing for Malack. Because Malack has never been established as having any sort of experience defending himself while alone. Most of the arguments for Malack being smarter in this fight rely on assumptions being made that aren't backed up in the comic. Malack simply isn't as awesome as we've been assuming.

I want to add in something to this, if I can. Malack vs Belkar. He spends a whole page debating whether he should kill Belkar, and apperently assumed Belkar would just sit there and kindly wait for a "Round One: FIGHT". Him being able to defeat Belkar easily doesn't mean he didn't get distracted talking evil-people ethics with himself when a fight was about to start.

[Porthos]

You know, I just figured out what this whole debate reminds me of. The battle that Vaarsuvius and Xykon had. You had people swear up and down that there was, literally, no way Vaarsuvius could possibly lose that fight, and they were prepared to prove it using math.

The exact same sort of 'properly prepared caster can't lose' arguments. The exact same sort of 'this is just lazy writing' charges. And the exact same 'characters who are this smart/wise can't possibly make such fundamental errors in strategy, and this takes me out of the story' complaints.

The fact that the story had already established some pretty damn good reasons for V's lack of sound planning was handwaved away as being unimportant.

There is a school of thought that says, more or less, "Casters can't lose. And superior casters can't lose to inferior ones."

That really does seem to be the root of the problem, IMO. OK, maybe the above statement is a bit of an exaggeration. But I don't think by much.

And I think the V/Xykon fight was constructive compared to this one. In the V/Xykon fight there was a series of blow/counterblow spells flung around. And yet when V lost, some (admittedly only some) people were incredulous and started to pick apart every little 'error' they saw. All the while complaining about how 'V shouldn't have done that s/he would know better'.

Which brings me to this fight. If Rich tossed away the rules to allow Malack to stay in sunlight for a while longer, or if Malack had some sort of backup plan ala WoR or something else, there still would have been complaints if Malack had lost. EIther because some people like Malack more than Nale, or because some people have difficulty with a 'stronger' caster losing to a 'weaker' one.

Would there have been less people complaining? No idea. But the storm over V losing to Xykon makes me think there still would have been some.

As Rich said, "Do you accept the story premise that Nale was more prepared, more capable, and more driven to kill Malack than Malack himself was expecting?" If one doesn't buy that, then I don't think Rich could have possibly written things that would satisfy.

If one does buy it? Then it just comes down to a matter of execution.

[Math_Mage]

FWIW, I've argued that Z did cast DA; the Giant just chose not to show it on panel. The imp can't cast it, or at least, shouldn't be able to by RAW. (Then again, the imp shouldn't have been able to shoot at Blackwing with whatever he was shooting with either.) Otherwise your suggestion'd be a great tactic, with not having to rely on Z winning initiative in the second round. Cat's Grace though would help Z win initiative, along with any other applicable buffs, and all of the prep could be bluffed as just preparing for a fight with the Order in the pit.

The imp has class levels.

Math Mage, doesn't Slay Living take a standard action to cast, and an standard action to make the touch attack? If so, how does that differ from pull the scroll (standard action) and cast the spell (standard action)?

First of all, pulling out the scroll is a move action, not a standard action.
Second, casting and delivering a touch attack spell does not require two standard actions, because the specific rules about how touch attack spells work trump the rules about spellcasting and touch attacks in general. You can even use a move action between casting and delivering the touch attack spell in the same round.

[NerdyKris]

before Nale drank the potion of negative energy resistance, instead of warning Nale that "there may be consequences for failure" (all but stating outright he was a dead man walking) and blithely waiting for Nale to act on the warning.

He had no idea Nale was drinking that potion. Nale was behind him. He assumed it was a healing potion if he saw it. Why would he have initiated the attack? Nale assumes he would have killed him, but for all we know, Malack planned to do that in the palace with plenty of guards and backup.

See, this is where people are getting hung up. Malack was not expecting Nale to attack. No amount of "Malack should have prepared for this" matters, because his underlying assumption was that Nale was working with them. He made an extreme tactical error. Nale even points this out, asking why he thought Nale would have forgotten what "buisness before pleasure" means. He underestimated Nale's ability to double cross.

The fact that he turned his back on Nale and was caught flat footed proves this. Had he expected betrayal, he never would have allowed Durkon to send the demon into the pit. Clearly he was never expecting an attack. That right there says that Malack is not the tactical genius people are making him out to be. He's a vampire who got lazy off two decades of playing it safe in the background. He underestimates everyone he faces. He got lucky with Durkon. But he clearly didn't think enough of Nale to consider him a threat.

[Grogmir]

....SNIP....

If you're a writer, and you have to spend time outside the work justifying your characters' behavior to your audience, then you're not doing your job right to begin with.

This is going to far now. Rich doesn't HAVE to do anything. He's cleared up some points on whats obviously an emotional subject for some. But its pretty clear that illiciting that emotion makes him a dang good writer.

Malack was doomed to die, no matter what... Before he was even given a name... Way back when the strip was only #1 strip old. Thats pretty mental.
Was it done in a way consistent (but not ruled by) DnD rules, Yep, did it provide insight into both Ms and Nales characters? Yep. Was it horrific? Yep.

Nice one Giant and I thought this Arc comic couldn't get any more awesome.

[Ghosty]

...First of all, pulling out the scroll is a move action, not a standard action.
Second, casting and delivering a touch attack spell does not require two standard actions, because the specific rules about how touch attack spells work trump the rules about spellcasting and touch attacks in general. You can even use a move action between casting and delivering the touch attack spell in the same round.

I haven't played 3.5, so I'm hazy on who can do what within the round. As I'm sure you've noted.

Malack can: Cast Slay Living + Touch attack all within one round. Right? Not shorter?
Or
Retrieve Stored Item (scroll) [Move Action] + Activate Spell Completion Item (Read the scroll) [Standard Action]: also within one round, since you can do a MA and a SA in the same round.

Either way, it's still a round. If he's got time to do option 1, he's got time to do option 2. At least according to the way the Giant drew how much time Malack had when he was burning up.

As to the Imp, my guess is that Scorching Ray was what s/he was throwing at Blackwing. Two bolts at 4d6 each is ~28 pts of damage, if both hit, no save. Or a DC 44 Concentration check when trying to cast WoR. Not too shabby. I never thought before about having the Imp join in the fun. What a good idea.

That's in addition to whatever damage the Sun's burning into his flesh. (What would that be? Call it 1/2 his total max HP per round, since he's flambeed by Round 2? Amazing that Malack was able to cast anything at all.) Do you have to make a Concentration check when reading from a scroll?

Meh, I'm mostly agreeing with you. The Giant's approach to following 3.5 rules has been repeatedly noted: i.e. he doesn't feel bound to them in any way. And, as I wrote earlier, I think the scene's got a lot more impact if Malack could've run, but just chose not to. I'm just curious about some of the rules peccadilloes. It's apparent to me that Malack's goose was cooked as soon as Nale (well, and the Giant too) got the drop on him. Vice versa too. Malack grappling Z and chowing down while the Count either Dominates Nale or does the '16 foot tall dwarf with a hammer' trick, seems like a game-winner.

[Reverent-One]

I haven't played 3.5, so I'm hazy on who can do what within the round. As I'm sure you've noted.

Malack can: Cast Slay Living + Touch attack all within one round. Right? Not shorter?
Or
Retrieve Stored Item (scroll) [Move Action] + Activate Spell Completion Item (Read the scroll) [Standard Action]: also within one round, since you can do a MA and a SA in the same round.

Either way, it's still a round. If he's got time to do option 1, he's got time to do option 2. At least according to the way the Giant drew how much time Malack had when he was burning up.

No, you get a free touch attack from casting a spell like Slay Living, so option 1 only takes a standard action, and a option 2 takes a move and a standard.

[Kish]

Malack can: Cast Slay Living + Touch attack all within one round. Right? Not shorter?

Wrong; shorter. Casting Slay Living and making the associated touch attack=one standard action, leaving room for a move action and a swift action in the same round. If Malack was able to take a full round's worth of actions with the sun beating down on him. Which he was not.

As it was, Malack could spend his one standard action casting Slay Living and touching Nale--which, in fact, he did--losing the move action and swift action (e.g., casting a Quickened spell, as we've seen Malack do before) that he would normally be entitled to* to the sunlight. Or he could pull out the scroll as a move action...and lose the standard action he would normally be entitled to to the sunlight, being quite unable to do anything with the scroll before he burned up.

*When I say "entitled to," that doesn't mean everyone takes a swift action every round. In fact, they rarely do, because few swift actions are generally-available and desirable. But when Malack in darkness or protected by Protection from Daylight casts only one spell in a round, that's him forfeiting his swift action due to not having a quickened spell he wants to cast; when Malack in sunlight without Protection from Daylight casts only one spell in a round, that's because he cannot cast quickened spells in sunlight.

[Ghosty]

No, you get a free touch attack from casting a spell like Slay Living, so option 1 only takes a standard action, and a option 2 takes a move and a standard.

So, cast + touch equals only a standard action, and you get your move on top of that. Then that is shorter, and thanks for clarifying that for me.

Would that be faster than casting Pro. Daylight out of his staff? Or since he already has the staff in his hands, all it'd take is the standard action to activate a magic item?

Oh, and I had no idea that using a scroll required concentration checks too. There goes one of their benefits from 2.0

Edit, Thanks to you too, Kish. I think I get it now. But normally, you can't use metamagic on a spontaneously converted to Inflict spell, so Malack's previously demonstrated Harm + QIMW, meant that he needed two 6th Level spots for that combo, and that he had to have memorized QIMW specifically beforehand. Thanks, I think I've finally got it.

[Ghosty]

Finally, that means that, for Malack to use WoR, in the one standard action he had before he went Poof! he needed to have:

1) Memorized it, but that means one less Heal/Harm, all for a spell he's practically never going to need. Good luck passing the Concentration check too.

2) Put it in his staff. Which he probably did do, for all the good that did him. Assuming that's even legal to do with a staff.

3) Fashioned a ring or amulet that just needed a code word to activate. Hideously expensive as far as XP goes, and he doesn't gain XP fast, if at all. If he loses a level due to his crafting, it makes him that much more dispensable by Tarquin.

4) Crafted a scroll of it. Useful if he's got a full round to escape. Which he doesn't in full unprotected daylight. And see Concentration check above.

All of which means he should have had a death grip on that staff. You or I would have, but we're not insanely overconfident and rusty, with 200 years of habits set in.

[Kish]

But normally, you can't use metamagic on a spontaneously converted to Inflict spell,

Actually, you can. But if you use a metamagic feat on any spontaneously cast spell (whether that's a good cleric's Cure spell, an evil cleric's Infliect spell, or a sorcerer or bard's any spell), it makes casting that spell a full-round action (an action that takes up all your actions for that round, standard, move, and swift).

Malack couldn't have cast any spontaneous metamagiced spells in the sunlight; he didn't have any full-round actions. Quickening a spontaneously-cast spell is worse than pointless under any circumstances; first the quickening makes it a swift action, then the fact that it's metamagiced overrides the quickening and makes it a full-round action.

[Dalek Kommander]

He had no idea Nale was drinking that potion. Nale was behind him. He assumed it was a healing potion if he saw it. Why would he have initiated the attack?

It was perfectly in character for Malack to not initiate attack, and the point I was buillding up to is that I'm perfectly satisfied with Malack being true to his character rather than only making "optimal choices". But that being said, initiating combat WAS the optimal choice in his position, and choosing to attack would not have required omniscient knowledge of Nale's intent. A more impulsive villain might have just attacked Nale simply because he had failed. A more paranoid villain who didn't know exactly what Nale was going to do might snuff him because he doesn't know exactly what Nale was going to do.

These are all perfectly valid reasons to attack Nale as soon as the gate exploded, but Malack didn't do it for the same reason he didn't prepare Word of Recall: because he was Malack.

[tomandtish]

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Actually, "Attack Action" is defined in the SRD: it's one of the Standard Actions. It comes in three types: melee, unarmed and ranged. It's specifically stated that delivering a touch attack spell counts as an armed attack action.

What turns it messy is that casting the spell is a standard action, but if you cast the spell and deliver the touch attack in the same round (even if the two are separated by a move action!) it still seems to only count as a single standard action, which is also an attack action. But if you cast the spell in one round, and deliver the touch attack in the next, it might seem that it costs you a standard action in each.

Stupid RAW, not anticipating what would happen if a spellcasting vampire gets caught in the sunlight with a touch attack spell available.



Me, I thought that touch attack spells would be allowed by RAW but no other spells, at first. Now I think the RAW is ambiguous about whether someone restricted to an Attack action could use it to cast-and-deliver a touch attack, because the casting and the delivering can't be counted as two separate standard actions in the same round.

But you're right, if WoR is ruled out as not an attack action, Malack couldn't have cast Pro Daylight either...

and in OotSverse, the situation is resolved that vamp's are allowed a standard action, but:



is the right answer

.

DeliaP says here much better what I was trying to say earlier. Casting a spell is a standard action. Attack actions are combat actions, including delivering a touch spell. But what about casting it in the first place? RAW is nuts!

This.

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And this.

Let's step back a bit and look at Comic 769, Comic 770, Comic 771, and Comic 772

In 769 once he finds out the connection between Roy and Haley, he immediately leaps to the conclusion that Roy was planted there by Haley and he "should have seen it coming" since there is no way a Big Guy who wants to hear about the local political scene could possibly be in there by chance.

Paranoid thinking. It helped Haley and Roy, sorta, because he already liked Roy. And it did have a wink and a nod to Dramatic Conventions. But still paranoid thinking.

In 770 he, rightly in this case, figures that someone is thwarting his escape attempts. But he comes up with the explanation that his bugs have been bugged.

Paranoid thinking. Not because he realized that someone was thwarting him. But because of who he fingered.

In 771 he immediately presumes that Elan was planted by Tarquin to get to at him. Not Haley, though he brought that up as he was thinking about it. Him.

"He joined you team to gather information on us - or maybe to catch you red-handed in the act of busting me out!" is his line.

The paranoid thinking isn't so much the fact that he immediately presumes Elan is bad news. It's that he was put in Haley's group to get at HIM.

Now in 772 is where it really goes off the rails. It starts off with Haley reminding Ian that Ian used to feel that Haley was the one person in his life who could always tell when someone was lying.

His reaction? "I don't think you're lying, Kitten, per se. I just think you're being tricked." He then goes on to say that she used to be so perceptive. His reasoning for why she isn't anymore? That she disagrees with him.

This is still paranoid thinking.

This is reinforced by him saying, "Kitten, try to think about this rationally. Why would Tarquin infiltrate your team just to catch YOU". That Elan is a plant by Tarquin is a given, and poor Haley is just too smitten to see what is really going on.

Paranoid thinking. Also with a huge dash of "It's all about him".

Then they have a huge fight about the value of trust and love. He flat out ignores Haley's description of Elan's qualities and what she has to say about him. He simply says "blood doesn't lie. You can always trust in family, for good or for ill."

He just presumes that since Tarquin is evil, so too will Elan be. He isn't open to discussion on the matter. Family is the most important determiner of how a person will act.

Which is... potentially ironic.

It is for all of the reasons above that Ian Starshine is paranoid. Life might have made him that way. He might have had reason to be skeptical of Elan. Even highly skeptical. But it is the fact that he refuses to acknowledge the possibility that he's wrong, and to automatically assume that every situation revolves around him that makes him paranoid.

He might be able to function normally when he is in control of a situation or when things are pretty free and easy. His interactions with Belkar and Roy whilst in the arena jail show that. But once things crop up that threaten, even slightly, his already established world view?

You guessed it.

I bolded a section for emphasis because it is more than just potentially ironic. Given how much trouble Haley had opening up to Elan in the first place, it's obvious that paranoia (from her father) was one of the most important factors. It was eventually able to be overcome, but was the single biggest factor in keeping that relationship (from her end anyway) from getting off the ground. She hates seeing it in her father now because this WAS her for quite a while.

[SavageWombat]

You know, I just figured out what this whole debate reminds me of. ..snip..

This is what's been bothering me. These few people are investing an enormous amount of emotional energy in trying to convince the other 99% of us that we're somehow wrong for thinking this was a perfectly fine scene.

I begin to suspect that some readers really hate it when the characters in the comic do not act in the way they anticipate.

[137beth]

The imp can't cast it, or at least, shouldn't be able to by RAW. (Then again, the imp shouldn't have been able to shoot at Blackwing with whatever he was shooting with either.)

Qarr is a sorcerer, when he shot Blackwing, he was casting scorching ray. It has nothing to do with him being an imp. In fact, the appearance of the rays indicate that he has 8-10 sorcerer levels, so he actually knows at least 1 4th level spell, and it might be dimensional anchor.

[Fish]

This is what's been bothering me. These few people are investing an enormous amount of emotional energy in trying to convince the other 99% of us that we're somehow wrong for thinking this was a perfectly fine scene.

I begin to suspect that some readers really hate it when the characters in the comic do not act in the way they anticipate.

It's just the first stages of grief: denial and bargaining. Those posters were emotionally attached to Malack and could not bring themselves to believe he was gone. They argue why it can't be true, in hopes of appealing his destruction.

[blacksabre]

{Scrubbed}

[NerdyKris]

It was perfectly in character for Malack to not initiate attack, and the point I was buillding up to is that I'm perfectly satisfied with Malack being true to his character rather than only making "optimal choices". But that being said, initiating combat WAS the optimal choice in his position, and choosing to attack would not have required omniscient knowledge of Nale's intent. A more impulsive villain might have just attacked Nale simply because he had failed. A more paranoid villain who didn't know exactly what Nale was going to do might snuff him because he doesn't know exactly what Nale was going to do.

These are all perfectly valid reasons to attack Nale as soon as the gate exploded, but Malack didn't do it for the same reason he didn't prepare Word of Recall: because he was Malack.

Ah. I do not see how I managed to entirely misread your point. My apologies. I has a case of the dumb today.