Crusader Kings 2 Thread II: Sparkly Vampire Invasion

[mythmonster2]

New dev diary out. First thing covered is the vassal limit: going over it exponentially gives you less taxes and levies from your vassals, plus upon succession it's possible some farther vassals may just break free. More info on centralization, which you can go further in by increasing legalism, and it seems that's all legalism does now, with short reign penalties going to majesty. Low centralization lets you have more vassals, while high centralization gives you a bigger demesne size and smaller vassal limit. You can appoint viceroys to govern your kingdoms for you if you're an emperor and duchies if you have a high enough legalism. Finally, regents will act for their own interests now and may even block certain actions if they don't approve, but you can appoint a chosen regent.

[AgentPaper]

Demesne limit is the really big change here. No more world-spanning empires with a million duke-level vassals. If you want to get big, you need to make lots of titles and hand them out, which is when the game is the most fun anyways, so I approve of that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still possible to conquer the entire world if you stack diplomacy, stay at low centralization, and keep only king-level vassals/viceroyalties, but it should be a lot more difficult now compared to before, where beyond a certain point (usually soon after becoming king) there just isn't any real way for you to lose anymore.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

One big issue in Crisis of the Confederation is that he stretched the playable Republic code to its very limit, so its pretty unstable in that sense...

[OrcusMcP]

The more I hear about the upcoming expansion the more I love. The vassal/demesne limits? Awesome. Legalism unlocks crown laws? Even more awesome. Viceroyalty? Expanded Regencies? Brittleness built into the feudalism? Yes, yes and yes!

Oh man, I cannot wait to play this expansion.

[Guancyto]

There are 79 Kingdoms in the world (plus a religious leader vassal if you aren't the Caliph or Fylkir, plus any mercenary companies or holy orders you want to have under you). That's about the same number of vassals you'd get with nothing but dukes ruling over all of Britannia, Francia, Hispania and the HRE. The screenshot in the dev diary has him with a vassal limit of 56 in 1337 at minimum Centralization.

It seems likely that conquering the world is going to involve a lot of vassal kings/superdukes and a lot of letting your vassal kings grab territory besides their de jure. (Particularly the ones in kingdoms you can't create.)

On the plus side, vassals of vassals don't count against your limit, so if one of your vassal kings conquers India, it won't be a problem for you! (It'll be a huge problem for him though, what with only being able to make dukes. If his vassals spontaneously become independent of him, do they become your vassals?)

I don't mind this a bit because I really like vassal kings.

[OrcusMcP]

Apparently almost all of Paradox's titles are 80% off on Steam right now. If there's been any DLC you were holding off on, now is the time to get it.

[Leecros]

Apparently almost all of Paradox's titles are 80% off on Steam right now. If there's been any DLC you were holding off on, now is the time to get it.

Sometimes i really do hate it when things go on sale shorty after i buy them.


I just picked up the remaining two portrait packs that I didn't have just the other day... Oh well, that's the risk you take when buying off of Steam.

[Cristo Meyers]

The more I hear about the upcoming expansion the more I love. The vassal/demesne limits? Awesome. Legalism unlocks crown laws? Even more awesome. Viceroyalty? Expanded Regencies? Brittleness built into the feudalism? Yes, yes and yes!

Oh man, I cannot wait to play this expansion.

Hopefully there's no Prior Savegame Breakage this time. I really don't want to have to start over again.

Apparently almost all of Paradox's titles are 80% off on Steam right now. If there's been any DLC you were holding off on, now is the time to get it.

And I just got EU4 as a bonus from work...

[Corvus]

Its saying 75% off for me - and I just got it a week ago. Grumble. But at least I can pick up the other major DLCs for cheap.

I can see what is meant by Egypt. Maththias reined for 40 years and unified Nubia and Abyssinia - but things went sour on his death. Abyssinia is a bit of a festering sore with its numerous scheming dukes and terrible laws. Can't make it eldest son inherits until you get High Crown Authority. And given you start at low with all those dukes it causes problems. So on his death gavelkind and the dukes caused problems in Abyssinia - and then the Egyptians came calling. Maththias's son could only raise a force half the size of the invasion. Loosing the northern duchy, all his troops and half of Abyssinia sort of brought the game to a crashing halt.

[Avilan the Grey]

Anyone reading this but not actually have the game yet... Huge steam sale on all Paradox titles on Steam this weekend, including the Crusader Kings 2 mega pack (all DLC's up until May this year included).

[Hydranova]

So, question. Are there any opinion malus for being of the same culture group but not the same culture, ie Celtic and Welsh?

[Leecros]

So, question. Are there any opinion malus for being of the same culture group but not the same culture, ie Celtic and Welsh?

There is, but it's halved. So instead of 20 it's 10.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Its saying 75% off for me - and I just got it a week ago. Grumble. But at least I can pick up the other major DLCs for cheap.

I can see what is meant by Egypt. Maththias reined for 40 years and unified Nubia and Abyssinia - but things went sour on his death. Abyssinia is a bit of a festering sore with its numerous scheming dukes and terrible laws. Can't make it eldest son inherits until you get High Crown Authority. And given you start at low with all those dukes it causes problems. So on his death gavelkind and the dukes caused problems in Abyssinia - and then the Egyptians came calling. Maththias's son could only raise a force half the size of the invasion. Loosing the northern duchy, all his troops and half of Abyssinia sort of brought the game to a crashing halt.

Ultimogeniture or elective are valid options to gavelkind.

[Corvus]

Ultimogeniture or elective are valid options to gavelkind.

Elective would be nice - but Abyssinia is not the nicest place to try it. There are around 8 duchies there and short of massive tyranny, most of them are going to be of the wrong culture. Trying to herd them all in the right direction takes patience, bribery or an adored king.

The good news is that the new king has pushed through high crown authority threw bestowing of a few landless titles plus some bribery. In about a years time he can switch over to primogeniture and then turn back to the real problems - how to deal with the Seljuks who kicked the Fatmaid's out of what remained of Egypt, thus denying his dad a shot at Emperor of Abyssinia.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Seljuks in Egypt? Ohhhh boy son.

Try to attack when a crusade lands maybe?

[OrcusMcP]

Elective would be nice - but Abyssinia is not the nicest place to try it. There are around 8 duchies there and short of massive tyranny, most of them are going to be of the wrong culture. Trying to herd them all in the right direction takes patience, bribery or an adored king.

The good news is that the new king has pushed through high crown authority threw bestowing of a few landless titles plus some bribery. In about a years time he can switch over to primogeniture and then turn back to the real problems - how to deal with the Seljuks who kicked the Fatmaid's out of what remained of Egypt, thus denying his dad a shot at Emperor of Abyssinia.

Oh man, have the Seljuks broken into Anatolia as well?

It might be time to start killing the non-decadent members of the Seljuk family.

[Corvus]

Its actually not a bad as it sounds.

Before the Fatamids were kicked out of Egypt (though they aren't yet out of of the game), King Gabriel the Wise managed to grab the Duchies of Aswan and Alexandria off them, very much improving Nubian strength. Since then they have added Cyrenica and Tripolitania.

Byzantium has lost Armenia but that is about all, and even gained some ground in the Balkans.

Right now those two powerhouses are duking it out over Antioch, so the more they fight the longer it will take to turn towards Nubia.

There is a very bright spot though. The Seljuk ruler, Sultan Kemal the Just, has Sympathy for Christendom, and a positive opinion of King Gabrielkouda. To make sure of it, I've parked my Chancellor in his court to improve relations.

[OrcusMcP]

Its actually not a bad as it sounds.

Before the Fatamids were kicked out of Egypt (though they aren't yet out of of the game), King Gabriel the Wise managed to grab the Duchies of Aswan and Alexandria off them, very much improving Nubian strength. Since then they have added Cyrenica and Tripolitania.

Byzantium has lost Armenia but that is about all, and even gained some ground in the Balkans.

Right now those two powerhouses are duking it out over Antioch, so the more they fight the longer it will take to turn towards Nubia.

There is a very bright spot though. The Seljuk ruler, Sultan Kemal the Just, has Sympathy for Christendom, and a positive opinion of King Gabrielkouda. To make sure of it, I've parked my Chancellor in his court to improve relations.

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[Hydranova]

Well, I've finally formed the Empire of Prydain after forcefully gobbling up Ireland county-by-county. Sure, It may have taken a truce breaker or two. Sadly, while I didn't get the achievement for all three kingdoms and set my dynasty on the thrones of Pommerania (got it after a Crusade and granted it independence) and Lotharingia, I'm now thinking about forging a claim in Norway and Holy Warring my way through Scandinavia, and giving the Empire of Prydain to a separate dynasty member once I've got Scandinavia's capital to where I want.

Meanwhile, The Byzantines have lost Anatolia, Syria is Shi'a, and Rus has a hold of Ruthenia and has reformed Slavic paganism. Aside from that....not much else weird stuff going on. Odd.

[Corvus]

Well things have taken a turn for the worse. The Byzantiums have lost Antolia to the Seljuks. The Fatamids are down to 6 counties - and half of those are in revolt. An adventurer threat is on the way. The Seljuk Sultan has contracted the great pox and picked up a few negative traits so our relationship has soured. And his heir isn't so open to other religions. Time to send in the assassins and see what a few bribes can buy.

In an interesting development, Ruthenia has formed and is turning into a slavic orthodox powerhouse - it and I are about equal for 5th and 6th largest armies - ahead of England and France. Persia is far out ahead, then HRE, Mauretania and the rump Byzantiums.

Ireland is still fragmented. Spain almost unified then broke apart again - and is taking on a resurgent Almoravid threat.

[Arogyos]

All dlc except sunset invasion, no mods.
1st up, Abyssinia, from Axum. Kinda got bored after this point.

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Viking Russia from Holmgardr. 1096, 103k score so far.

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The religion, Reformed Norse, am Falkyrate, holy order vassalised.

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And culture. Bit difficult this, took ages for me to get it to spread across from Aaland.

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Might do world conquest, but haven't been playing lately...probably start new game with Charlemagne instead.

[Morph Bark]

As a result of the Paradox sale, I have now ended up with all gameplay DLCs for CKII, the Victoria collection and Hearts of Iron 3. Perhaps it is time to start do a CKII-to-HoI3 playthrough with the converters.

Say, are there any mods that allow you to basically craft your own unique cultures/religions/rulers to start with in any area? I know there's the official ruler designer, but heard it was lackluster from a lot of people, so I passed on it.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

If you want, there is the ruler designer unlocked mod that lets you make whatever kind of custom toon you want. You can revert years all you want so you don't have to be a blind cripple just to have genius and a decent education.

[Corvus]

Well King Gabrielkouda the Old has passed on after an almost 40 year reign. He didn't do much to expand the twin Kingdoms like his father - I think he only took the Duchy of Sanaa. Most of his threats were internal.

The only external threats were from an 29K strong adventurer army and an Egyptian invasion. To defeat the adventurers required the holy order, both mercenary bands (and a loan to pay their wages) plus all the levies he could muster. All up he could only raise 26K troops, but it was enough, though with bloody losses. At least the money he made paid off the loan. The Egyptian, down to just 3 counties, didn't even require the aid of the vassals, even though they still scraped up 12K troops.

The Seljuk threat has been lessened, even though they are still the main powerhouse. The old Sultan died a maimed cripple at 57. Then his more hostile son fell on a lone arrow somehow. His heir was a 1 year old whom a lot of the vassals loathed. And decadence was sky rocketing. Surprisingly the place didn't fall apart. That may have had to do with a crusade going on. In the end the Crusade failed and the 100% decadence reset. The kid is now 11 and decadence has hit 49% and growing at 5.5% per month so trouble is coming soon for them, finally.

There was a bit of trouble internally though. A major independence plot brewed, led by his youngest brother, and backed by a son, his own queen and a number of dukes. The only way to stop it, reluctantly, was to have his own brother murdered.

The plot fell apart - only to reform a few years later again. This time the plot succeeded and a civil war broke out. Loyalists that rallied to the banner help put it down but not before the queen (the king's second wife and a duchess in her own right), the king's second son and three dukes were captured. It enabled Gabrielkouda to strip a number of titles and break up some of the power of the dukes.

The King's wife was an interesting character. Her father, the Duke of Gojjam had been plotting against him, and so he had been murdered. When the King's first wife died, he married the Duchess of Gojjam. She later became ambitious and loathed the king, taking part in the rebellion. Despite this, when she was 22 and he 74, they had a son who would bring the county into the dynasty when she died, having been stripped of the Duchy when she rebelled. He wasn't the first son though. She had had an affair with her chancellor. The kid was one of numerous to have an 'accident' through Gabrielkouda's reign.

There have been some other developments. One of the duke's has taken up Catholicism and handed over one of his baronies to the Knights Hospitaller. Apart from about 3 counties clinging to Islam, most else have been converted. The Court Chaplin will have to pay a visit to the rogue duke at some point and explain theology.

As the king's age began to catch up with him, he looked at his succession and noticed a rather disturbing future. Due to his firstborn son having died of stress, line of succession went to his grandson, also called Gabrielkouda, a gluttonous, proud indulgent wastrel. Not a man the king wanted on the throne. He would have preferred another grandson, Eliezer. Gabrielkouda had to die. And so he did. But it didn't end there - the dead prince had a son, a craven cynical 10 year old. So Gabrielkouda was forced to have murdered a brother, a grandson and a great grandson to ensure the realm didn't fall apart and a decent successor would follow him. In the end, aged 76, he passed away peacefully.

[Rockphed]

There are 79 Kingdoms in the world (plus a religious leader vassal if you aren't the Caliph or Fylkir, plus any mercenary companies or holy orders you want to have under you). That's about the same number of vassals you'd get with nothing but dukes ruling over all of Britannia, Francia, Hispania and the HRE. The screenshot in the dev diary has him with a vassal limit of 56 in 1337 at minimum Centralization.

It seems likely that conquering the world is going to involve a lot of vassal kings/superdukes and a lot of letting your vassal kings grab territory besides their de jure. (Particularly the ones in kingdoms you can't create.)

On the plus side, vassals of vassals don't count against your limit, so if one of your vassal kings conquers India, it won't be a problem for you! (It'll be a huge problem for him though, what with only being able to make dukes. If his vassals spontaneously become independent of him, do they become your vassals?)

I don't mind this a bit because I really like vassal kings.

The other option is to game the system to maximize your dynasty prestige. Which probably involves making lots of vassal kings and dukes of your dynasty. And counts. And barons. Or maybe seniority succession.

What is the best way to get high dynasty prestige?

[Hydranova]

Make your dukes and Kings your dynasty and set succession to elective?

[Artanis]

The other option is to game the system to maximize your dynasty prestige. Which probably involves making lots of vassal kings and dukes of your dynasty. And counts. And barons. Or maybe seniority succession.

What is the best way to get high dynasty prestige?

Make your dukes and Kings your dynasty and set succession to elective?

Also, any time you have titles you don't want (e.g. all the cities and churches after a Holy War), do a search for your dynasty set to My Realm and give everything to the more useless members you find. Even if they only last one generation, it still counts. In my current game, my dynasty has produced a LOT of 60-year-old childless female mayors with useless husbands and no chances at any inheritances

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Also, any time you have titles you don't want (e.g. all the cities and churches after a Holy War), do a search for your dynasty set to My Realm and give everything to the more useless members you find. Even if they only last one generation, it still counts. In my current game, my dynasty has produced a LOT of 60-year-old childless female mayors with useless husbands and no chances at any inheritances

Better yet, after a crusade win and you have all those titles, just get yourself killed. I like failing to kill a high intrigue ruler.

[Guancyto]

Dynasty prestige!

Set succession to Seniority, make as many titles as you can. It's based on how many titles have been held by your dynasty members at their time of death (and also all currently held by the living), so if you hold three empires and ten kingdoms and see four of your rulers dead in a year, you'll have another 12x Empires Held and 40x Kingdoms Held for a delicious 1280 dypres.

Doing elective 'right' is actually a big hindrance to your dynasty prestige (although makes your life way easier in every other respect); getting a high-stat, high-health monster of a ruler as young as possible with one top-level title will let you kick a lot of heathen arse, but your dynasty prestige in that case will mostly come from your vassals or independent rulers of your dynasty.

[Sange]

So Charlemagne's releasing on 14th October, awesome. That might mean the DLCs will be on sale again.