World of Warcraft XVI: Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Orcy Worcey...Stuff

[GungHo]

Actually, it really isn't. Also, it isn't the new feature everyone thinks it is.
Click here for what I'm talking about

No, no, no... I get the scale, the time savings in playing a character all the way to 90, and the secondary account stuff. I just mean, at a glance, it's giving me sticker shock. I say the same thing when I see that a Camaro 2SS is just under $40k. I know that you can negotiate it down, I know that it's fully loaded, and I know that it goes like greased lightning. It's still a goddamn Chevrolet.

A boost is a good thing to have, but pricing it so highly seems exploitative.

On the other hand, I don't think they're exploiting anyone. They're selling you a cheat code. They figure $60 is the price of a cheat code. You don't gotta buy the cheat code if you don't like it. If no one buys the cheat code, the price will come down. I have a feeling, though, that plenty of people will buy the cheat code because they have the disposable income to do so. Hell, I'll probably buy one just because I've never had the fortitude to take a mage past 40. It's not like they're hiding any additional content behind a paywall or telling you you gotta buy a token to play a raid.

[Karoht]

I'm not actually upset with the price, I think it's just a bit odd that it's that high. I wasn't aware of that strange double-account workaround though, so that at least helps make sense of it.

There was both my post and Glyphs article which both discuss it.

@Female Orc Model
It gives me high hopes for the Female Tauren now. Truthfully, I thought the female orc model would be harder or take more iteration (recall the female worgen debacle a few years back), but they seem to have nailed it.
My only complaint, the eye proportioning reminds me of the female goblin face, but it's not a deal breaker.

No, no, no... I get the scale, the time savings in playing a character all the way to 90, and the secondary account stuff. I just mean, at a glance, it's giving me sticker shock. I say the same thing when I see that a Camaro 2SS is just under $40k. I know that you can negotiate it down, I know that it's fully loaded, and I know that it goes like greased lightning. It's still a goddamn Chevrolet.

Odd example and one I won't argue, because it's GM. I got a funny story regarding GM and Audi but it's off-topic.

On the other hand, I don't think they're exploiting anyone. They're selling you a cheat code. They figure $60 is the price of a cheat code. You don't gotta buy the cheat code if you don't like it. If no one buys the cheat code, the price will come down. I have a feeling, though, that plenty of people will buy the cheat code because they have the disposable income to do so. Hell, I'll probably buy one just because I've never had the fortitude to take a mage past 40. It's not like they're hiding any additional content behind a paywall or telling you you gotta buy a token to play a raid.

I think the 'Sticker Shock' for me, comes from the fact that it's a 90 and not a 100. However, compared to the character leveling services which sell 463 geared 90's for 3x-5x the price, it's still sounding like a reasonable amount. High enough that not everyone does it, but low enough to make it a reasonable option to some people.

[Cerlis]

As some of you know there where press releases in France, Korea and i think one other place.

I thought i'd share one of the French sites covering it...or..something

Je ne parles pas francais

http://www.mamytwink.com/

^site front page.

Relevant links

Images from starting zone
http://www.mamytwink.com/actualite/p...rds-of-draenor

Interview:

http://www.mamytwink.com/actualite/p...on-hazzikostas

Female Dwarf discovered in character creation screen
http://www.mamytwink.com/actualite/w...ele-des-naines

And of course there are 3 subpar videos on MMO champion (Spoiler alert. On the one with the warlock, no he doesnt really do anything for 4 minutes until he switches to the dwarf. 2 things you CAN see are facial expressions while dancing and part of the quest where you meet the Frostwolves.

[Luzahn]

Sometimes I regret playing on the Horde side (Blood Elves were too great in WC3 to pass up). Shadowmoon seems so much nicer than a volcanic tundra. Might need to focus on leveling my Worgen before launch.

[Sylthia]

There was both my post and Glyphs article which both discuss it.

@Female Orc Model
It gives me high hopes for the Female Tauren now. Truthfully, I thought the female orc model would be harder or take more iteration (recall the female worgen debacle a few years back), but they seem to have nailed it.
My only complaint, the eye proportioning reminds me of the female goblin face, but it's not a deal breaker.

Odd example and one I won't argue, because it's GM. I got a funny story regarding GM and Audi but it's off-topic.

I think the 'Sticker Shock' for me, comes from the fact that it's a 90 and not a 100. However, compared to the character leveling services which sell 463 geared 90's for 3x-5x the price, it's still sounding like a reasonable amount. High enough that not everyone does it, but low enough to make it a reasonable option to some people.

I've never researched the topic, but who's paying hundreds of dollars for 90s now? Didn't realize they charged that much.

[Karoht]

I've never researched the topic, but who's paying hundreds of dollars for 90s now? Didn't realize they charged that much.

You would be surprised. Or hey, just pay attention to trade chat spam, all kinds of services are advertise there, legal or not.

Seriously, check eBay. 120 is a low figure for most of them.

[Sylthia]

You would be surprised. Or hey, just pay attention to trade chat spam, all kinds of services are advertise there, legal or not.

Seriously, check eBay. 120 is a low figure for most of them.

Wow, I could be sitting on thousands of dollars if I ever felt like selling mine.

[otakuryoga]

Wow, I could be sitting on thousands of dollars if I ever felt like selling mine.

naw...you are not a chinese company doing this
as an individual they would jump all over you and stop it in a heartbeat 8p

[Kislath]

I would say that I would never buy a levelup, but who knows? One thing that is for sure is that I'll be running my current 90's through the Proving Ground first to see how helpful it is before I decide. ( Is that a scenario or an actual place? )
I've sent two 90's to the Timeless Isle so far, and.. well, I'm sure you know how much tougher it is than one might expect.
Are those critters all set on Heroic or at Raid strength or something? They sure aren't normal.
Then there's the jerkwads who figured out out to somehow flag me for PvP without my even knowing it. I spent a half hour yesterday trying to get away from one douchebag who kept camping the graveyard.
I'm not impressed by your prowess, oh mighty warlock. Go to a PvP server if you want to fight. OH wait! I get it now... you're really a total pansy who couldn't hack it there, so you came to my server to pick on PvE'ers who can't fight back. Okay, then. Whatever.

Moving along...

If I'm having this much trouble with characters I thought I knew how to play, then what hope would I have with one I insta-raised to 90?
True, the thought of Outland questing makes me feel dead inside, but if my 60-somethings were suddenly 90's, I'm sure I wouldn't have a clue of what to do with them.

( The irony is that I'd be skipping Outland only to wind up in Old Draenor. NNNNNNOOOOOOOooooooooo!!!!! )

By the way, how many Timeless Cloaks am I going have to find before I get something I can use?? Sheesh! I found 5 cloaks in a row yesterday!!!

[Traab]

Ok, prot warrior is hilarious. I rolled one for grins and giggles, (im on a run of all the starting areas since its been awhile) and chose the 1h weapons and shields as i strolled through the first 9 levels. Sword and board SUCKS for those 9 levels dammit! Seriously, I was getting hammered by those rare spawns, especially that bastard bat in the forsaken starting area. Anyways, So I finally hit 10, pick prot, and Blammo, im one shotting every caster mob, and two shotting whatever isnt a caster. Shield Slam or whatever its called is freaking hilarious since it does 10x the damage of my pathetic heroic strike. I can almost see it with my minds eye, some dude with a shield strolling through the woods, smacking bears and wolves through the air with a casual swing of his arm. /ROAR!! /BONK!

I... I may be too easily amused.

[otakuryoga]

well...i beat celestial tourney 1st time last night so i have my first baby celestial (da kitty)
went in and was facing the cat when i realized that one of the 2 foxes i needed against it was only 23...and poor quality........yeah...that didnt work out
so off to kun lai summit to farm a better one
1st spawn i hit gives me a 25 rare..YAY
leveled it back up to 25 and went into tourney again to beat it w/ no problem

[Cerlis]

I would say that I would never buy a levelup, but who knows? One thing that is for sure is that I'll be running my current 90's through the Proving Ground first to see how helpful it is before I decide. ( Is that a scenario or an actual place? )
I've sent two 90's to the Timeless Isle so far, and.. well, I'm sure you know how much tougher it is than one might expect.
Are those critters all set on Heroic or at Raid strength or something? They sure aren't normal.
Then there's the jerkwads who figured out out to somehow flag me for PvP without my even knowing it. I spent a half hour yesterday trying to get away from one douchebag who kept camping the graveyard.
I'm not impressed by your prowess, oh mighty warlock. Go to a PvP server if you want to fight. OH wait! I get it now... you're really a total pansy who couldn't hack it there, so you came to my server to pick on PvE'ers who can't fight back. Okay, then. Whatever.

Moving along...

If I'm having this much trouble with characters I thought I knew how to play, then what hope would I have with one I insta-raised to 90?
True, the thought of Outland questing makes me feel dead inside, but if my 60-somethings were suddenly 90's, I'm sure I wouldn't have a clue of what to do with them.

( The irony is that I'd be skipping Outland only to wind up in Old Draenor. NNNNNNOOOOOOOooooooooo!!!!! )

By the way, how many Timeless Cloaks am I going have to find before I get something I can use?? Sheesh! I found 5 cloaks in a row yesterday!!!

Well if you really look over every class that exists you realize they are basically all the same
1-2 big hitters you click whenever they cooldown (every 6-10 seconds)
1-2 DoTs yo keep on the enemy
Filler ability
1-2 randomly activated abilities (or non-random procs)
1-2 Buffs, that usually just give a straight up passive buff (doesnt much matter if its +20% dmg or +20% crit)

and thats all one needs to know to play a class. All other information falls into the catagory of something you'd ask another player or an online guide to optimize anyways. (for instance which of your 4 main abilities[2 cooldowns and 2 procs] is the most powerful and should be hit first)

I mean shaman is easy. Stormstrike (main ability), lava lash (second ability), unleash weapon, Shock spell, and click each of those again as soon as thy come off cooldown. Throw in maelstrom lighting bolts/chainlightings/elemental bolts as soon as they come up. Use buffs at same time.

all you need is 5 minutes to look over your abilities and 30 or so minutes of testing it out to see how they work and you are playing about as good as anyone else who hasnt learned the "right" way to play the class (as in pseudo optimized)

-----------------------

As for timeless isle, the creatures ARE designed to challenge lvl 90 players. You can still die alot at 540. However to give perspective with my 544 rogue the frogs and most elites usually die within two finishers. If they are lucky.

HOWEVER,most of this difficulty comes from AVOIDABLE attacks. Most of those creatures have abilities that will one shot you, or take off 25-50% of your life. If you completely avoid them then you take almost no dmg. The frogs auto kill you at 10 stacks of poison, just stun them and the stacks will fall off and start over.

Due to gear anyone under 470 gear WILL have alot of trouble with the island, which is why they should fight the none elites (and some animal elites) first, get as much treasure chests as they can find first. there are 3 buffable items you get off creatures (the rewards for the Daily) that give you MAJOR help, food all over the island you can eat for 5% stats, shrines that give you MAJOR buffs and the Pandaren ghost have a chance at dropping an item that summons a ghost to fight for you. having even a few of these buffs REALLY helps.

Furthermore, "rep' groups are common, so is grouping. Rare spawns will give loot to anyone and most people are curteous enough to announce when they are up. They usually give 100-300 coins.

Also paying attention to things helps alot. For instance snakes do 20% of your life in damage, however it is a slow cast and any form of CC even if it breaks immediately will stop it. Tigers alwas leap backwards and swipre forward. Keep their backs towards areas you already cleared of creatures, avoid their swipe and Move if it leaps at you and they will do (basically) NO damage to you. The fire elementals in the cave...there are camp fires near them that reduce damage you take from them by 50%. in the place with all the yak people , being near the glowing green orbs near the trees reduces fire dmg you take by 50%. Evermaw cant hurt you (unless you get near his mouth). Anyone can get loot by attacking a celestial who is fighting someone from your same faction, even if you arent grouped with them if yuo are the same faction you can get loot (once per week)

[Krazzman]

Well if you really look over every class that exists you realize they are basically all the same
1-2 big hitters you click whenever they cooldown (every 6-10 seconds)
1-2 DoTs yo keep on the enemy
Filler ability
1-2 randomly activated abilities (or non-random procs)
1-2 Buffs, that usually just give a straight up passive buff (doesnt much matter if its +20% dmg or +20% crit)

and thats all one needs to know to play a class. All other information falls into the catagory of something you'd ask another player or an online guide to optimize anyways. (for instance which of your 4 main abilities[2 cooldowns and 2 procs] is the most powerful and should be hit first)

I mean shaman is easy. Stormstrike (main ability), lava lash (second ability), unleash weapon, Shock spell, and click each of those again as soon as thy come off cooldown. Throw in maelstrom lighting bolts/chainlightings/elemental bolts as soon as they come up. Use buffs at same time.

all you need is 5 minutes to look over your abilities and 30 or so minutes of testing it out to see how they work and you are playing about as good as anyone else who hasnt learned the "right" way to play the class (as in pseudo optimized)

I think the sameness is somewhat wanted as there are just that many ideas that are ideal.

Ferals and Rogues Share Combo Points and Energy.
Energy is also shared with Monks. Monks have to build up a buff on themselves and a debuff on the enemy. As do Ferals (dunno if Rogues have to do this too).
Monks have Chi which works similar to Holy Power, Shadoworbs or Ember.
Use X to build up and use Y to use up your extra resource.

What I personally find rather awesome is that Rotations are nearly extinct.

I really disliked how a Feral Druid plays. Guardian Druid? Awesome! Moonkin? Weird but I can deal with it. Resto? Despite me being bad at healing ok. Feral? -5/10 will never play again.

Paladin? I have to use Inquisition frequently and else just power through stuff with my priority skills. I think the whole energy and Combopoints deal makes Feral tedious compared to paladin.

I have so far with RAF bonus played: Destro Warlock(85), Blood DK(80), Elemental Shaman(55)(Resto too) and Survival Hunter(52).
So far everything seemed easy but most of this was playing ranged classes. I fear a slight bit the time when I try out Warrior or Monk. Especially the monk.

I have no clue how awesome a mage might be (he is still 85 on the server blackhand). But the Warlock, Hunter and Elemental Shaman are so far the ones I like most.

I think similar playstyles for certain classes are there because you don't have to learn something entirely new if you want to reroll.

[Karoht]

Well if you really look over every class that exists you realize they are basically all the same
1-2 big hitters you click whenever they cooldown (every 6-10 seconds)
1-2 DoTs yo keep on the enemy
Filler ability
1-2 randomly activated abilities (or non-random procs)
1-2 Buffs, that usually just give a straight up passive buff (doesnt much matter if its +20% dmg or +20% crit)

and thats all one needs to know to play a class. All other information falls into the catagory of something you'd ask another player or an online guide to optimize anyways. (for instance which of your 4 main abilities[2 cooldowns and 2 procs] is the most powerful and should be hit first)

I mean shaman is easy. Stormstrike (main ability), lava lash (second ability), unleash weapon, Shock spell, and click each of those again as soon as thy come off cooldown. Throw in maelstrom lighting bolts/chainlightings/elemental bolts as soon as they come up. Use buffs at same time.

I know you're doing this from a first glance, but you lost me at Lava Lash.
You open with Unleash for the haste buff on your auto's. You Flame Shock to start the dot ticking and for cooldown timing purposes and damages while you close with the enemy, and Searing Totem. Stormstrike > Lava Lash, by this point you have Flurry + Unleash happening. Your next Shock should be off CD at this point, either wait the second or two, hit Stormstrike > Earthshock or Earthshock early, Stormstrike > Maelstrom [Lightning Bolt]. By this point Searing Totem will have stacked up and Lava Lash will be off CD, pop that. Unleash should be off shortly after, repeat.

all you need is 5 minutes to look over your abilities and 30 or so minutes of testing it out to see how they work and you are playing about as good as anyone else who hasnt learned the "right" way to play the class (as in pseudo optimized)

Well, in all fairness, going by the above it isn't as true as you think it might be. Moreover, very few classes have a rotation now, more of a priority system. Arms Warrior for example is Colossus > Mortal Strike > Overpower > Slam > Heroic Strike, and much of that has caveats based on Rage levels. My fiance mains as an Arms warrior. She was topping meters for a while with a 'hit everything on cooldown ever' mentality. I informed her about the priority system, her DPS nearly doubled.

As for timeless isle, the creatures ARE designed to challenge lvl 90 players. You can still die alot at 540. However to give perspective with my 544 rogue the frogs and most elites usually die within two finishers. If they are lucky.

HOWEVER,most of this difficulty comes from AVOIDABLE attacks. Most of those creatures have abilities that will one shot you, or take off 25-50% of your life. If you completely avoid them then you take almost no dmg. The frogs auto kill you at 10 stacks of poison, just stun them and the stacks will fall off and start over.

This. It's a place designed to keep people busy at the end of expansion tier of content. It didn't come out with Mists at launch. Most people are expected to have gone through other content, like the dailies, the Dominance/Shieldwall and the Isle of Thunder, nevermind the raids as well. They give the gear catch up because they understand that not everyone has been through all that. Wander the island and avoid fights, find chests and score yourself some 489-496 gear before you start really doing anything else.

Also paying attention to things helps a lot.

Words to live by. Seriously, if you die to a one-shot mechanic, it's because you are not paying attention, not because your gear sucks.

[Icewraith]

I would say that I would never buy a levelup, but who knows? One thing that is for sure is that I'll be running my current 90's through the Proving Ground first to see how helpful it is before I decide. ( Is that a scenario or an actual place? )
I've sent two 90's to the Timeless Isle so far, and.. well, I'm sure you know how much tougher it is than one might expect.
Are those critters all set on Heroic or at Raid strength or something? They sure aren't normal.
Then there's the jerkwads who figured out out to somehow flag me for PvP without my even knowing it. I spent a half hour yesterday trying to get away from one douchebag who kept camping the graveyard.
I'm not impressed by your prowess, oh mighty warlock. Go to a PvP server if you want to fight. OH wait! I get it now... you're really a total pansy who couldn't hack it there, so you came to my server to pick on PvE'ers who can't fight back. Okay, then. Whatever.

Moving along...

If I'm having this much trouble with characters I thought I knew how to play, then what hope would I have with one I insta-raised to 90?
True, the thought of Outland questing makes me feel dead inside, but if my 60-somethings were suddenly 90's, I'm sure I wouldn't have a clue of what to do with them.

( The irony is that I'd be skipping Outland only to wind up in Old Draenor. NNNNNNOOOOOOOooooooooo!!!!! )

By the way, how many Timeless Cloaks am I going have to find before I get something I can use?? Sheesh! I found 5 cloaks in a row yesterday!!!

Be very careful with any aoe or cleave-type abilities around flagged players. Healing a flagged player also gets you flagged, not sure if this works on atonement type effects but I do know I somehow got magically flagged in disc on my priest once while hitting the ship. Also if you're melee or a hunter, be very careful doing anything, including moving or any clicking or autorunning whatsoever. I got ganked by a monk who was running around with the trinket/item that summons four tiny no-health savage gnome minions that attack your target, somehow or other I managed to autoattack one and only one with about 30% left on the rare mob I was beating on.

I did my damndest to kill him (I was in fury), unfortunately I think a number of my best cooldowns were still on cooldown. When it was clear I wouldn't be able to burst him down (I got him close but he managed to heal back up after I ran out of burst) I feared him, heroic leap->rocket belted out of the cave, dropped combat and was less than half a second from finishing my mount cast and escaping when he caught up to me and put me back in combat. He was on my faction using the ordos servitor thing to be flagged for all players, so it was nice when he whispered me and congratulated me (not mockingly) on nearly killing him.

Anyways.
Finally went back to old LFR, killed the thunder king, and finished up the legendary quest chain (I've been sitting on the kill quest for a couple weeks now, only really been logging on to raid). This would have been nearly impossible to do in a day (well maybe any day not a tuesday) if I hadn't checked comments on wowhead and noticed one reminding people of the presence of the "other raids" in-game finder tool (Openraid was next to no help). Granted I ended up killing about six celestials before finishing the quest thanks to a horde group downing Yu'lon before I started using aforementioned feature. I was pleasantly surprised at the near-constant stream of people, including healers, to the point that most of the groups were actually around 30 or so in size instead of the bare minimum of ten-ish (or probably five geared people) needed.

[Kislath]

Thanks guys! This is all very helpful.

The PvP flaggers... I figured them out, but don't yet know what to do about them. They seem to love to jump in to places where I would use an AOE or send their minions in. I use Mind Sear on groups of crane chicks, for example, and while whittling them down some flagged hunter's pet jumps in to attack the cranes, and bam, I'm flagged. In a group they'll flag one of my party members and wait for me to heal him. Very annoying.

I finally managed to get enough gear to get my 3 90's into the ilvl high-470's range, and have enough left over to instantly outfit another. I guess I'll raise my hunter when WoD comes out and I can send BoA's across servers, since I have a big pile of hunter gear now when all I need is a nice pair of cloth pants.

I found the proving ground. here I was, waiting for WoD to hit, not knowing that the PG was already live.
Not very helpful, though. Some characters can almost hack it, but my DK is having a very hard time. Rune regeneration is just too slow. I can get as far as the two shielded Yaungols with the herd of virmen, but by then my cooldowns are locked and I've got nothing left.

At any rate, gear-wise I'm much better off than I was, so that should make my rep-grinding for the various factions a lot easier.
Black Onyx cloud serpent, you WILL be mine... my blue, gold & green ones are nice, but not nice enough.

[Karoht]

I found the proving ground. here I was, waiting for WoD to hit, not knowing that the PG was already live.
Not very helpful, though. Some characters can almost hack it, but my DK is having a very hard time. Rune regeneration is just too slow. I can get as far as the two shielded Yaungols with the herd of virmen, but by then my cooldowns are locked and I've got nothing left.

Note, your gear is downranked to 463 automatically in PG's. You can't outgear them.
If your rune regeneration is too slow, consider a respec, as you get a choice of talents that work on that.
Also, consider looking up a guide on how to play your spec, as chances are good that your Rune usage and Runic Power usage are inefficient. I fully recommend www.icy-veins.com which has guides for all kinds of things, from boss strategies to class mechanics. They even have a Proving Grounds guide, worth a read.
Finally, are you going in as DPS or Tank? Note that Blood is a tank spec, and what you described sounds like DPS. I don't recall what spec you were enjoying with your DK, which is why I mention it.

[Icewraith]

Note, your gear is downranked to 463 automatically in PG's. You can't outgear them.
If your rune regeneration is too slow, consider a respec, as you get a choice of talents that work on that.
Also, consider looking up a guide on how to play your spec, as chances are good that your Rune usage and Runic Power usage are inefficient. I fully recommend www.icy-veins.com which has guides for all kinds of things, from boss strategies to class mechanics. They even have a Proving Grounds guide, worth a read.
Finally, are you going in as DPS or Tank? Note that Blood is a tank spec, and what you described sounds like DPS. I don't recall what spec you were enjoying with your DK, which is why I mention it.

I haven't done any but the tanking ones, I got killed on the last wave of... gold? round three? ...due to blowing a CD out of caution earlier and not having it available to take on two of those big guys at once. I might go back eventually, but it was kind of tedious and anything I can practically clear without having even seen it before (and there's not some cool reward for those that I'm forgetting about, right?) is low on my priority list. Also by definition I can't run it with my wife.

Incidentally unless they turn off tier set bonuses and the cooldown reduction trinkets there MAY be a subtle way to "out-gear" the proving grounds.

[The Glyphstone]

I haven't done any but the tanking ones, I got killed on the last wave of... gold? round three? ...due to blowing a CD out of caution earlier and not having it available to take on two of those big guys at once. I might go back eventually, but it was kind of tedious and anything I can practically clear without having even seen it before (and there's not some cool reward for those that I'm forgetting about, right?) is low on my priority list. Also by definition I can't run it with my wife.

Incidentally unless they turn off tier set bonuses and the cooldown reduction trinkets there MAY be a subtle way to "out-gear" the proving grounds.

They do, I think. Same way they gear down for challenge modes.

[Seerow]

They do, I think. Same way they gear down for challenge modes.

Yeah set bonuses get turned off. Legendary Cloak procs are disabled. Legendary metagem is disabled. All gear is scaled down to ilvl 463.


Of course this does mean to be optimal you need to bring an extra helm with a regular metagem in it for the proving grounds. Also, gems don't get scaled down, so items with more gem sockets are worth more than items with fewer, even if the more socket item is lower ilvl.

[Kislath]

I went in as Frost, DPS. The next levels just come at me too fast, much faster than I would move from fight to fight in a real dungeon.
Thanks for the link. I'll be studying it.
I have a trinket with 3 gem slots in it, which I never got around to gemming, so that's probably a big thing to fix, eh?

[Tanuki Tales]

Getting real sick of all the troll PUG people.

[Icewraith]

Getting real sick of all the troll PUG people.

Dropped into ToT RF 2 last night with my wife and lo and behold, one of the tanks on Tortos was a dps trying to get a faster queue (and then we kicked him) and someone mass pulled half the trash before Meg into the group.

Some things never change. *sigh*

Found a couple people (most of the other ex-"serious raiders" in our terrible casual flex raid group) interested in running challenge modes before they evaporate, tried out what the one person with experience thought was "the easiest one". Terrible party composition, mostly unoptimized gear, no consumables, no heroism, underexperienced healer, and we were in there to get used to the difficulty and adjusted gear- but even with all that we've got a group that, once we address at least some of those issues, is definitely capable of making gold runs, no question.

The only downside is that one of the more logical substitutions is having the healer bring her tank and me bring my disc priest, assuming I can hack it. I did all the tanking last night though, I enjoy tanking against timers, and the tank sets the group's pace. Oh well.

[Cerlis]

In regards to the posts replying to my last post

My point was that its very easy to learn to play a new class (based off the facts they all have that system. Of big abilities you use every chance you get, buffs you maintain, and procs...to simplify it)


I think what yall where discussing was "playing a class well".

Because there is a huge difference.

What i'm talking about is you go Arcane mage to Fire mage.
"Ok, Fireball is your arcane blast, pyroblast is your arcane missles, nether tempest is your nethertempest. hit inferno blast on cooldown. Use combustion when you see 3 damage over time effects on the enemy"

And bamf you know how to play a fire mage.

Each class has major abilities that are mostly equivalent. Crusader strike, sinister strike , mortal strike and bloodthirst are all "your main strike you hit everytime its up to do more powerful stuff". Inquisition, slice and dice, savage roar, Tiger palm all all Direct dps boost abilities you always keep up. So when you have a new player that has been playing a rogue you can say "yea you use tiger palm to keep your Tiger palm buff up, kinda like slice and dice."

And so on and so forth.

[Psyren]

Any thoughts on the $60 for an instant 90?

[Karoht]

Any thoughts on the $60 for an instant 90?

I'll copy/pasta my reply for the third time now.
For reals.
TL:DR version with some fluff-The same thing was possible with RAF for the last 2 years, probably longer, this is just a streamlined version of that exploit and takes away the need to hunt for cheap copies of the game to make it worth it. Note that the RAF version still exists, so it's potentially possible to find a cheap copy of the Battle Chest + MoP + WoD and get TWO 90's (plus the XP boost) for potentially as low as $50 but probably more likely around $70-80 dollars, depending on the pre-WoD sales discounts, if one is willing to do a bit more of the legwork.

[Krazzman]

I'll copy/pasta my reply for the third time now.
For reals.
TL:DR version with some fluff-The same thing was possible with RAF for the last 2 years, probably longer, this is just a streamlined version of that exploit and takes away the need to hunt for cheap copies of the game to make it worth it. Note that the RAF version still exists, so it's potentially possible to find a cheap copy of the Battle Chest + MoP + WoD and get TWO 90's (plus the XP boost) for potentially as low as $50 but probably more likely around $70-80 dollars, depending on the pre-WoD sales discounts, if one is willing to do a bit more of the legwork.

With RAF you actually get quite a different amount...

Paying for 2 months: ~30€ (gives one free month to other account and a kick-ass mount)
paying for everything until MOP: 45 €
And 20€ to transfer to another account per character.
Brings a potential of 22 level 85 characters for 295€ and that means around 13€ per character at level 85. The 220€ are IF you actually transfer every class once.
Although this would most likely mean that you won't spend the 220 but just don't level certain classes and transfer them instead. Meaning that a) you will spend more time getting them to nearmaxlevel and b) you have probably more fun doing stuff with your partner. At least that's what we do atm. But yeah sadly that way is over.

[Karoht]

With RAF you actually get quite a different amount...

Which can vary greatly if you wait until christmas or black friday or some other sale price on Battlechest + MoP + WoD.
Pay for 1 month (you get 1 free with it plus RAF bonuses) $15
Battlechest + MoP you will likely see on sale for 5+5 again, much like we did during christmas, black friday, and the summer madness sale they had.
WoD for $40, possibly as low as $20 on sale, see above for precedent.
15+10+20 =45, then you just worry about transfering them. Merging accounts I think is the trick (you don't transfer them, you just merge the accounts is what everyone else was citing, which costs nothing so long as you are the owner of both accounts). Now this part might be the 'yell at blizzard and threaten to quit until they give you your way for free' part in which Your Mileage May Vary, but the way I read it on multiple sites, Merging the accounts isn't something you pay for, but it's the really REALLY buggy part of the thing.

Yes RAF is down for now, it's coming back probably before the expansion drops.
Official Bnet announcement
I can't find anything saying it's gone for good so... yeah. If you have a source saying it's perma-gone by all means share, otherwise I fully expect to see it back again soon-ish.

[Sgtpepper]

As one is prone to do when making(Rolling if you will) a character, I have gotten stuck on the choice of race. Hunter, what makes the coolest hunter, personally I prefer cool and optimized(for say agility or to hit or Crit). Narrowing down till just Dwarf, Worgen, and Night Elf was a simple task. Now I come to you, the almight playground of wisdom, what makes the better hunter.








(not trying to start an argument, just want reasons as to why one would play one over another.)

[The Glyphstone]

Dwarves get +1% Expertise with ranged weapons. This reduces the amount of Hit/Expertise you need, and lets you reforge more of it onto good stuff. But miss chance is going away in WoD, so who knows what this will be.

Night Elves get nothing that directly benefits Hunters.

Worgen get +1% Crit with all weapons.

Racial Sprint is a nice Worgen general perk, though. So if you just want bonuses, Worgen and Dwarf are roughly equivalent, but Worgen also gets a utility talent, so it would be the best. Worgen also look cool, and have a fun starting zone.