Steven Universe

[eggynack]

Snip

I'm not really sure what you think "Keeping a tight pace" would mean. Would that just be keeping only the incredibly serialized episodes? Cause that seems to me like it'd be acting against the fundamental point of the show. Steven Universe is absolutely about the gem half of Steven, expressed in plot important episodes like Mirror Gem, but it's also about the human half, especially because saving humans is the entire basis of the crystal gems. The whole point of the show is that you get complicated characterization for characters like Lars in episodes like the amazing Lars and the Cool Kids, and the only marginally less amazing Island Adventure. I mean, you say Lars and Sadie haven't really changed, but I feel like I still only have a partial picture of their nature and relationship. I care so damnably much about how Lars and Sadie's relationship was impacted by Island Adventure and Joking Victim, as well as how Lars' relationship with his friends has progressed, and that's not a thing I can say about most shows.

Considering further, the idea that these episodes aren't critical to the overall plot makes little sense to me, because even the tiniest things on the show are brought back in a big way. So, we're skipping right from Ocean Gem to Lion 3 now? That means we're missing Steven losing access to his healing powers, a thing directly referenced in several later episodes including The Test, Pearl going crazy and taking Steven to space, a fact is made so much more poignant by the events in Rose's Scabbard, while simultaneously making those events more poignant, Garnet calling Kiki "Pizza Daughter", which is just the best thing (I can't think of much for Secret Team), Lars and Sadie's relationship both being created and scuttled, which came back in a big way in Horror Club, the basic development of Ronaldo's character, which set up every subsequent episode where he's a major player, both the formation of Alexandrite, which is certain to come up again, and the continuing relationship of Steven and Connie, which is possibly the most important relationship on the show, and Steven figuring out the plant control ability, which again, will almost certainly come up (Garnet's Universe is just ridiculousness, at least apparently. I gots nothing).

That's so frigging much stuff. I could easily call out specific moments and jokes too, from all of those episodes, because I think it's really great television, but the point I'm trying to make is that they're not just trying to develop a plot here. They're trying to develop a world. Moreover, they're trying to develop a world where it's worth getting invested in just about every single relationship and character portrayed, all the way from Steven and Connie to Greg and Amethyst. And, to put it bluntly, I am invested in all of those relationships, and that's something I don't think I've ever seen on a show. I see shows where I care about the majority of relationships, like Bob's Burgers, but even there I tend to lose my interest somewhere around the line of Jimmy Pesto and Bob, as well as Linda Gretchen. It's not on quite the same level as this show, at least on this axis, where I can honestly say that I care at least a little about how Mayor Dewey/Pearl works itself out. I would watch the hell out of that episode, and I would love it.

I think this world creation works because, as has been said elsewhere (maybe on this thread), the world has existed before we started looking at it. Steven's entrance into the world, and his more serious joining of the Crystal Gems, was an interruption. Things were happening before he popped in, and those things really frigging mattered. Some of those things, like any relationship with Rose, are just gone now, and some of those things, like Lars/Sadie or Amethyst's issues, are only really starting to come into play because he started interfering. Maybe sometimes the characters don't change in an episode, but that's just because these characters were developed before we started watching them. And I think that's awesome.

As for Over the Garden Wall, that show is phenomenal, on pretty much every level, but it's very much a different thing. Some shows can tell their whole story in that ridiculously short stretch of time, and that's an impressive thing. But, where Over the Garden Wall's story is one about a pair of characters going on a journey, and the folks they meet and things they learn on that journey, Steven Universe is about a town, and the continuing development of that town, and that's just a bigger story. In trying to boil away unnecessary things, I think you may have boiled away the point.

[Fawkes]

Yeah, Jayngfet, I really think you're expecting something of Steven Universe that really isn't what the show's about. Steven Universe is an episodic children's cartoon show that is influenced partly by plot-heavy anime. It is NOT a plot-heavy anime. The show uses slice-of-life episodes to flesh out its world, and the growing plot behind the Gem War is basically background information that helps inform us about the character's relationships. The main focus of the show is always going to be the relationships between Steven, Connie, and the Gems, NOT the Gem War.

Compare Steven Universe to some of its contemporaries: Adventure Time, Gravity Falls and My Little Pony. All have an overarching mythos behind them, but not every episode advances our knowledge about the mythos, and that's intentional, because ultimately, it's not what the show's really about. Adventure Time is about a boy and his dog, Gravity Falls is about two twins and their Gruncle, and MLP is about Friendship.

TL;DR If you prefer plot-heavy anime to what shows like Steven Universe are doing, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that Steven Universe is doing it wrong. It's just doing something different.

Also, here is an unrelated gif because there is too much text on this page already.

[Jayngfet]

Compare Steven Universe to some of its contemporaries: Adventure Time, Gravity Falls and My Little Pony. All have an overarching mythos behind them, but not every episode advances our knowledge about the mythos, and that's intentional, because ultimately, it's not what the show's really about. Adventure Time is about a boy and his dog, Gravity Falls is about two twins and their Gruncle, and MLP is about Friendship.

Yes, and I compared it to some of it's other contemporaries, one on the same network with a launch date closer to it, and compared exactly where it came up short. You're hung up on specific comparisons to the point where you've forgotten that every single thing you listed in every genre is more or less for the exact same age range and demographic. Trying to separate them and only compare it to those three specific points is arbitrary at best.

Likewise, lets not act like there isn't a much greater focus on overarching plot in this particular show in comparison to the others. Anything the others wanted resolved they either did quickly or put on the backburner for other things(outside of Gravity Falls, which does have an overarching thing but actually paces itself much better. It's just that network scheduling has made it seem slower than it is). Adventure Time never actually pretended to have anything else to offer besides what it initially had(and no, the two situations aren't really that similar. You can have a setting with things implied in the background without making them a central premise of the show). I haven't seen all of My Little Pony but at least what I did see early on was a much more pace conscious show that kept track of what it was going. Then to bring it back to Over The Garden Wall, you have a show that achieved a comparable tone and did everything it set out to do with less than a quarter the run time, using a much more involved art direction.

It's not even about overarching plots when you get down to it. It's about the show hitting it's intended marks it's with proper timing. It doesn't matter if that mark is some kind of plot revelation, a gag that's given enough focus to be a centerpiece, or any other such moment that's so important to the show itself in a way that the crew would place it as such without any ambiguity(usually by audio of visual cues). While I haven't taken down a specific list of which cues and when, it's pretty clear when certain episodes are trying to hit what marks, because the show marks them with specific visual framing or audio tracks, applying to both comedy and drama.

A large amount of the time, those marks wind up being a bit off. I mean a good example is say, Island Adventure. It's a Lars and Sadie episode where their relationship doesn't change, we learn nothing of note about them, and for all the next episodes reference what happens it may well never have happened. So what's on paper the focus of the episode isn't really given anything of note. But it's given this great big musical number that's a good tenth of the episode, as if all of that nothing that actually happens is somehow an emotionally resonant thing of note.

[eggynack]

Likewise, lets not act like there isn't a much greater focus on overarching plot in this particular show in comparison to the others.

I don't think this show has as strong a focus on overarching plot as you do. Or, to some extent I do, but I think these things you're dismissing are the overarching plot. The point of Jailbreak isn't really that the protagonists repel the gem invasion, after all. The point is to show who Garnet is as a person. Similarly, the point of The Return isn't that they get captured, but that Steven grows as a person in trying to go back, and the speech Garnet gives to him.

This show is deeply serialized, or at least deeply serialized in that kinda loose way where episodes don't necessarily follow each other all the time, but where the underlying progression is there. But, instead of just being one serialized story, that of Steven dealing with this existential threat, it's a massive network of intertwining serialized stories, and they're all important in their own way.

A large amount of the time, those marks wind up being a bit off. I mean a good example is say, Island Adventure. It's a Lars and Sadie episode where their relationship doesn't change, we learn nothing of note about them, and for all the next episodes reference what happens it may well never have happened. So what's on paper the focus of the episode isn't really given anything of note. But it's given this great big musical number that's a good tenth of the episode, as if all of that nothing that actually happens is somehow an emotionally resonant thing of note.

I don't think that Island Adventure is a top tier episode, but I do think it's a reasonably good one. Lars and Sadie's relationship absolutely does change, because the subtext that was presented in Joking Victim becomes text, and Sadie's role in their relationship as the, I guess you could call it less broken or flawed character, but that feels inadequate, was frayed by her deception. I don't think she'd ever done that before, or anything like it. At the same time, Lars is a more vulnerable person in that episode than he's been in any other, and again, the subtext presented in Lars and the Cool Kids, that he puts on this facade of cool in order to distract from his fragility, which is further reinforced later in Horror Club, is made significantly more textual.

Point is, Island Adventure was another episode in a long running plotline, one that while not directly mentioned in future episodes, has influence both on how we see the characters in those future episodes, and on how those characters interact. Also, the show isn't over yet. You see the show's pacing as one of overindulgence on the basis of more episodes scheduled, but I see it as patience. They've been willing in the past to reference long gone episodes in present ones, deepening their role in the story, whether it's Cheeseburger Backpack coming back in The Test, or the gem battlefield from Serious Steven given more background in Rose's Scabbard, or even something as short in distance as Garnet's reaction in Alone Together gaining new meaning in Jailbreak.

You say that this episode might as well have never happened, but even if I were to agree that we should discount all the subtle influences I brought up already, how could you even begin to know that when the show is still running? For all we know, a soon to come episode could have Lars and Sadie confront each other about the events of Island Adventure, or there could be some detail from it given more weight. Or, maybe not. Because sometimes in life, things happen and they don't necessarily act as a turning point, and that's fine.

My conclusion is that Steven Universe is damn complicated. You can go around thinking that you can just pull out some threads, or even cut out a bunch of episodes, but that kind of thinking ignores how surprisingly dense the show is, with stuff that appears throwaway becoming the center of the entire show for a bit ("We kept Amethyst"). This show is not Adventure Time, though it does borrow some of that show's sense of continuity and love affair with immortal characters (I'm vaguely inclined to believe that that's more of a Rebecca Sugar thing), but neither is it Over the Garden Wall. It is its own show, and trying to evaluate it by a metric as ludicrous as episode count makes no sense.

[Jayngfet]

You say that this episode might as well have never happened, but even if I were to agree that we should discount all the subtle influences I brought up already, how could you even begin to know that when the show is still running? For all we know, a soon to come episode could have Lars and Sadie confront each other about the events of Island Adventure, or there could be some detail from it given more weight. Or, maybe not. Because sometimes in life, things happen and they don't necessarily act as a turning point, and that's fine.

Because that's it. Season 1 is over. When they initially wrote the show we've already seen everything they wanted to put into almost fifty episodes of content. There was never any real plan to have them do anything with it. It's obviously not much of a deal at this point because they aren't even listed as being in the next few episodes.

That's the point you're not getting. They didn't plan this as a gag-a-day slice of life show. The season had a clear beginning middle and end and it had a clear point it wanted to jump back on with when and if they got a second season. Obviously the stuff regarding the individual gems as characters was significant, in particular the Amethyst episodes. Ronaldo built on everything, because he's an active participant in events, if a totally insane one, and he's essentially become a handy device to address certain concepts and ideas while keeping it light. It didn't always work but you can generally get a sense that there's an attempt to do something there that leads to something else.

There's structure, and it's a transparent and clearly articulated structure that was obviously planned. It's just that there are notable points where that structure doesn't work. This one specific episode is just a particularly good example because instead of a line being a bit too off or something not being where it needs to be, the whole thing essentially went nowhere to begin with. It's like someone drew up a building and one of the staircases doesn't go anywhere, it just builds up and up until it hits the roof and runs out of space to continue.

[LaZodiac]

The next episode is literally about Lars. Also, Sadie's got that scar on her face from the Island Adventure ever since. That's gotta count for something (that and she killed a Gem in combat).

[Jayngfet]

The next episode is literally about Lars. Also, Sadie's got that scar on her face from the Island Adventure ever since. That's gotta count for something (that and she killed a Gem in combat).

The next episode is about three characters that've interacted with Lars once or twice. If you can point him out in the preview or summary I'd like to see it.

Sadie killing a gem in combat might've counted for something if it counted for something. I mean if she actually contributed somehow when Jasper showed up then you'd have a point but she left with the rest of them.

[eggynack]

Because that's it. Season 1 is over. When they initially wrote the show we've already seen everything they wanted to put into almost fifty episodes of content. There was never any real plan to have them do anything with it. It's obviously not much of a deal at this point because they aren't even listed as being in the next few episodes.

I don't see why either the season ending or the immediate future of the show is entirely relevant. They could easily come back to the events of Island Adventure in ten episodes or fifty if they wanted. Hell, Adventure Time has had things come back whole seasons later, like King Worm as an arbitrary example. They're not the same show, but still, you're basing this claim on absolutely nothing. We don't know how they treat the break between seasons, but honestly, I would be incredibly surprised if they just dropped all of the plotlines that involve various town members that aren't directly gem relevant just because a new season happened.

That's the point you're not getting. They didn't plan this as a gag-a-day slice of life show. The season had a clear beginning middle and end and it had a clear point it wanted to jump back on with when and if they got a second season. Obviously the stuff regarding the individual gems as characters was significant, in particular the Amethyst episodes. Ronaldo built on everything, because he's an active participant in events, if a totally insane one, and he's essentially become a handy device to address certain concepts and ideas while keeping it light. It didn't always work but you can generally get a sense that there's an attempt to do something there that leads to something else.

There's structure, and it's a transparent and clearly articulated structure that was obviously planned. It's just that there are notable points where that structure doesn't work. This one specific episode is just a particularly good example because instead of a line being a bit too off or something not being where it needs to be, the whole thing essentially went nowhere to begin with. It's like someone drew up a building and one of the staircases doesn't go anywhere, it just builds up and up until it hits the roof and runs out of space to continue.

I just don't think you're right about what this show is at all. The stuff pertaining to the crystal gems obviously acts as a through line going across the entire show, and it's vital to the show's structure. But, at the same time, stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the crystal gems also acts as a number of smaller through lines, and they are just as important to the show, and vital to its structure. Steven is half human, after all, and that fact is reflected in his interactions with the townspeople. The fact that he has that unique blended experience is what sets him apart from the Crystal Gems, and indeed, it sets him apart from the town as well.

You can tell me that you think Island Adventure in particular doesn't work. You may even be partially right. The song was only reasonable, not up to the heights of stuff like Strong in the Real Way (though not much is), and Sadie's development may have come a bit too far out of left field. As I said, it's not a top tier episode, and it's probably not even second tier, though that may have less to do with a particularly low opinion I have of that episode than with a high opinion I have of some other episodes. However, if you're going to tell me that an episode largely about Lars and Sadie, with occasional Steven, is outside the character and structure of the show, then that's just not a criticism I can take seriously.

Because, while the crystal gem stuff might make up a lot of the show's structure, it's not the point of the show. The point, I think, was said best by Rose in Lion 3. "Isn't it remarkable, Steven? This world is full of so many possibilities. Each living thing has an entirely unique experience. The sights they see, the sounds they hear... the lives they live... are so complicated, and so simple. I can't wait for you to join them." That quote is just so well expressed in an episode like Island Adventure. The show is, in large part, about the experiences and relationships of these ordinary people. Sometimes those people are crazy powerful super ladies, and sometimes those people are just townsfolk going about their business, but really, maybe those two things aren't all that different.

[Fawkes]

Yes, and I compared it to some of it's other contemporaries, one on the same network with a launch date closer to it, and compared exactly where it came up short. You're hung up on specific comparisons to the point where you've forgotten that every single thing you listed in every genre is more or less for the exact same age range and demographic. Trying to separate them and only compare it to those three specific points is arbitrary at best.

That's the thing - the animes you cited AREN'T its contemporaries. And Over the Garden Wall was a miniseries. It had a completely different game plan going out the gate, and a different kind of story to tell.

Because that's it. Season 1 is over. When they initially wrote the show we've already seen everything they wanted to put into almost fifty episodes of content. There was never any real plan to have them do anything with it. It's obviously not much of a deal at this point because they aren't even listed as being in the next few episodes.

That's the point you're not getting. They didn't plan this as a gag-a-day slice of life show. The season had a clear beginning middle and end and it had a clear point it wanted to jump back on with when and if they got a second season.

[Citation Needed].

Steven Universe wasn't designed to be a one-and-done closed loop. It's an ongoing episodic cartoon show. To suggest that we've seen everything the show has to offer just because the initial episode order is done is frankly ludicrous.

[Jayngfet]

To suggest that we've seen everything the show has to offer just because the initial episode order is done is frankly ludicrous.

Sorry, but can you explain this to me.

"We haven't seen everything they had to offer. We just saw everything they had to offer when they wrote it down."

That seems kind of irresponsible to presume either as an audience member or as a member of the crew making the thing. It assumes that, years down the road, you'll still be making the same thing, the audience will like it, and that the executives of a network famous for waffling on shows and cutting content will grant you a season 2 even then.

That there even is a second season is mostly just happenstance and luck. If the issues of the first season are fixed in the second, that's all well and good, but it should never be expected, because this is the kind of thing one should never expect because it's the kind of thing that's by it's very nature uncertain and uncountable. Expecting an issue with a series to be resolved in season 2 is like expecting a game to improve in a sequel. It's a presumptuous assumption to say the least.

I mean again, for this specific thing Lars and Sadie aren't even listed in any upcoming episodes. There may be a chance they appear this week, but given it's about three different characters taking the focus the odds of any kind of resolution or even meaningful interaction are kind of low.

[eggynack]

Sorry, but can you explain this to me.

"We haven't seen everything they had to offer. We just saw everything they had to offer when they wrote it down."

That seems kind of irresponsible to presume either as an audience member or as a member of the crew making the thing. It assumes that, years down the road, you'll still be making the same thing, the audience will like it, and that the executives of a network famous for waffling on shows and cutting content will grant you a season 2 even then.

The issue is that the only person presuming anything is you. I'm not assuming that this specific plotline will be continued, but to assume that it won't be seems pretty ridiculous. The fact that the season ended is completely irrelevant to whether this specific Lars and Sadie plotline will be continued, and while there is no evidence that it will continue, there is equally no evidence that it won't be.

That there even is a second season is mostly just happenstance and luck. If the issues of the first season are fixed in the second, that's all well and good, but it should never be expected, because this is the kind of thing one should never expect because it's the kind of thing that's by it's very nature uncertain and uncountable. Expecting an issue with a series to be resolved in season 2 is like expecting a game to improve in a sequel. It's a presumptuous assumption to say the least.

I don't really think there is an issue with the first season, is the thing. You still haven't really addressed the bulk of my rebuttals to your criticisms, including the fact that your main cited episode does have its role in the show's continuity, both stretching backwards and forwards. I mean, pretty much all you've got, by my reckoning, is that the episode hasn't been directly and explicitly referenced in the show, and that's a criticism of really limited scope that could be remedied at some point.

[Kymme]

So... I want to watch this show. I've already heard some of the songs and stuff from it, and for me the soundtrack is the most important part. Should I start from episode 1? I've heard some people earlier in the thread say that Steven Universe starts off kinda slow.

[eggynack]

So... I want to watch this show. I've already heard some of the songs and stuff from it, and for me the soundtrack is the most important part. Should I start from episode 1? I've heard some people earlier in the thread say that Steven Universe starts off kinda slow.

Personally, I think the first episode is somewhat slow, but I really like the second. They introduce Steven's father, Greg, in that one, and he's one of my favorite characters. After that, there the show vacillates between reasonable and quite good, but I think the next really high level episode is seven, Bubble Buddies, once again largely predicated on the introduction of one of my favorite characters. Then there's another sequence of those reasonable to good quality episodes, but it's followed by a streak from like 12 to 16 which is amazing, only breaking at 17 before another streak of awesome from 19 to 21.

Honestly though, I'd just watch all of it if possible. It's always at least reasonable, and while the driving plot of the show picks up later in, most of the episodes have some relevance to the underlying nature of the show. Also, if soundtrack and songs is your driving force in watching the show, I think it's pretty consistently amazing throughout the entire run, starting right from the first episode. Pearl's theme is still one of my favorites, even now, and that monster fight song is great too. If there's one way the show has rarely lapsed, it's in its aesthetics, whether in the form of backgrounds, character designs, or indeed, music.

[LaZodiac]

Personally, I think the first episode is somewhat slow, but I really like the second. They introduce Steven's father, Greg, in that one, and he's one of my favorite characters. After that, there the show vacillates between reasonable and quite good, but I think the next really high level episode is seven, Bubble Buddies, once again largely predicated on the introduction of one of my favorite characters. Then there's another sequence of those reasonable to good quality episodes, but it's followed by a streak from like 12 to 16 which is amazing, only breaking at 17 before another streak of awesome from 19 to 21.

Honestly though, I'd just watch all of it if possible. It's always at least reasonable, and while the driving plot of the show picks up later in, most of the episodes have some relevance to the underlying nature of the show. Also, if soundtrack and songs is your driving force in watching the show, I think it's pretty consistently amazing throughout the entire run, starting right from the first episode. Pearl's theme is still one of my favorites, even now, and that monster fight song is great too. If there's one way the show has rarely lapsed, it's in its aesthetics, whether in the form of backgrounds, character designs, or indeed, music.

Episode 5 has Frybo in it.

My recomendation is that you watch every episode. Two episodes together are the length of a regular show's one episode, so there's really no reason not to.

[eggynack]

Episode 5 has Frybo in it.

Sure, but still not my favorite. Just, I dunno, something about it never appealed all that much to me. Maybe it's that I'm not the biggest fan of Peedee as a character. I actually liked the other episodes I cut out significantly more.

[LaZodiac]

Sure, but still not my favorite. Just, I dunno, something about it never appealed all that much to me. Maybe it's that I'm not the biggest fan of Peedee as a character. I actually liked the other episodes I cut out significantly more.

My main reasoning for enjoying that episode because of the "ketchup".

Spoiler: Minor early spoilers

Show

I was worried, even though I had been assured this series wouldn't betray the hype like the Pony show did, that it would be...well, the pony show. Then this horrible monster fueled by the shattered soul of a Gem that's responsible for many, many deaths gets attacked and has a big ass glaive jutting out of it's eye as blood pours down it's face.

[eggynack]

Fair enough, though that's not really the kinda thing that drew me into the show. I didn't really need to be sold on the show all that much, actually, given my already present love of Rebecca Sugar from Adventure Time.

[Fawkes]

Sorry, but can you explain this to me.

"We haven't seen everything they had to offer. We just saw everything they had to offer when they wrote it down."

That seems kind of irresponsible to presume either as an audience member or as a member of the crew making the thing. It assumes that, years down the road, you'll still be making the same thing, the audience will like it, and that the executives of a network famous for waffling on shows and cutting content will grant you a season 2 even then.

That there even is a second season is mostly just happenstance and luck. If the issues of the first season are fixed in the second, that's all well and good, but it should never be expected, because this is the kind of thing one should never expect because it's the kind of thing that's by it's very nature uncertain and uncountable. Expecting an issue with a series to be resolved in season 2 is like expecting a game to improve in a sequel. It's a presumptuous assumption to say the least.

What? Why would you not have plans for what to do for a second season? Because you might not have one? Steven Universe wasn't pitched as a 10-episode miniseries like Over the Garden Wall. It was pitched as an ONGOING show. If you're pitching an ongoing show, you're gonna have to present ideas for continuing the story past the first season, even if you might not get to make it, because that's the goal.

It's nonsense to presume that, just because their initial contract was for 40-50 episodes, that they only had ideas to fill that time. Rebecca Sugar has probably working on Steven Universe. She might have had ideas for 1,000 episodes ready to go before they started the pilot. That's not irresponsible, that's planning.

Do you think Joss Whedon only had ideas for 13 episodes of Firefly? Do you think **** Wolf only had plans for 20 episodes of Law and Order? Because that's not how TV works.

If you don't like how Steven Universe is doing things, that's fine. But don't pretend like you know more about the thought process of the creators than you do.

[LaZodiac]

What? Why would you not have plans for what to do for a second season? Because you might not have one? Steven Universe wasn't pitched as a 10-episode miniseries like Over the Garden Wall. It was pitched as an ONGOING show. If you're pitching an ongoing show, you're gonna have to present ideas for continuing the story past the first season, even if you might not get to make it, because that's the goal.

It's nonsense to presume that, just because their initial contract was for 40-50 episodes, that they only had ideas to fill that time. Rebecca Sugar has probably working on Steven Universe. She might have had ideas for 1,000 episodes ready to go before they started the pilot. That's not irresponsible, that's planning.

Do you think Joss Whedon only had ideas for 13 episodes of Firefly? Do you think **** Wolf only had plans for 20 episodes of Law and Order? Because that's not how TV works.

If you don't like how Steven Universe is doing things, that's fine. But don't pretend like you know more about the thought process of the creators than you do.

For example, Rebecca Sugar came up with the idea for the Gems like...I think if I recall what my friend told me from the wiki, 20+ years ago. Garnet for instance was always planned to be Ruby and Sapphire, from before the show was even confirmed for being a show they'd let her begin making. So yeah, we know for a fact that she has WAY more stuff planned then we can even imagine.

[Cizak]

I just started watching this series, and just saw the Mirror/Ocean Gem episodes. I just wanted to say, as a first reaction sort of thing: For all the monsters they fight in this series, Garnet is the scariest ****ing thing!

[eggynack]

So, Joy Ride. I really liked this one, mostly because I love the tendency of the cool kids from Lars and the Cool Kids to be genuinely cool people, even if they still maintain a bit of that traditional recklessness. Of course, there's also the weird continuity thing I've been talking about, where the status of Steven's apparently arbitrary TV grounding is kept track of throughout episodes, instead of just acting as an end of episode gag. Of course, that's not even bringing up the most massive revelation of the episode, dwarfing anything that occurred in Jailbreak:

Spoiler: Greatest thing ever

Show

Holy crap, Sour Cream and Onion are (step?) brothers. How did I not put this together? It seems eminently possible that everyone else already knew this, because it makes so much sense, but I didn't know it until the exact moment Sour Cream started talking about his step father the fisherman who just makes mwaw noises. Awesome. I love this show.

[Jayngfet]

This, children, is why you don't take joy rides in crashed alien spaceships.

It's also why those three aren't leadership material outside of by elimination. They panic and attack way too quickly.

What? Why would you not have plans for what to do for a second season? Because you might not have one?
If you don't like how Steven Universe is doing things, that's fine. But don't pretend like you know more about the thought process of the creators than you do.

There's a difference between having ideas for a second season, and having your story rely on the idea of a second season. If an arc cannot close in the time allotted when it's being drawn up, it's not a good arc. This specific thing they were trying to do didn't really conclude or do anything.

[eggynack]

It's also why those three aren't leadership material outside of by elimination. They panic and attack way too quickly.

Not the first time they've displayed such a lack of capability either. As I've noted earlier, they're pretty deeply incompetent, at least as applies to some things. Still, it would make sense that they would be on attack mode, given both that Peridot is a major threat for the show, and given that there were kids there that took priority over reason. I have the feeling that, on a larger level, the gems just behave irrationally about homeworld gems. Or, if things go really high scale, maybe they're actually behaving rationally. That's a scary thing right there.

There's a difference between having ideas for a second season, and having your story rely on the idea of a second season. If an arc cannot close in the time allotted when it's being drawn up, it's not a good arc. This specific thing they were trying to do didn't really conclude or do anything.

It's not just a basic one season arc. Heck, none of the arcs on the show are, really. They're continuing events in the course of the lives of these characters, which sometimes fall along the lines of a similar plot, because a major driving force behind a character doesn't necessarily just go away. It's also a romantic subplot, and those have a serious tendency to be extended across seasons. I don't think I really need to provide citations for that particular claim, because that sort of thing is ridiculously common. Beyond that, again, I really don't feel like this particular continuation you seek is necessary. I mean, it'd be nice, but if the show went off the air tomorrow, my first reaction wouldn't be, "Oh my god, that plot from Island Adventure was never explicitly referenced."

As a side thing, I've been considering doing a continuity rating for episodes of the show in order. The basic question is the extent to which various episodes are referenced in later episodes. I might do a bulk deal on the first ten in a later post, because looking back, those episodes became surprisingly integrated into the larger plot after initially appearing to be one and dones. Might also be worth measuring the distance between episode and reference, because that could give a better idea of the kinda span we're working with for this particular issue.

[Jayngfet]

It's not just a basic one season arc. Heck, none of the arcs on the show are, really. They're continuing events in the course of the lives of these characters, which sometimes fall along the lines of a similar plot, because a major driving force behind a character doesn't necessarily just go away.

There's a difference between that and this.

Look at say, Amethyst. She starts off being a goofy comic relief character who expands through her episodes to reveal a bunch of extra character traits which eventually tie back into Peridot's larger plans, giving her a dramatic side without losing the comedy bits. Or Pearl, who's mostly a stuck up know it all but increasingly has to confront periods where she's wrong and that maybe her way of doing things isn't always best. There's a clear evolution of a character and a progression they follow to a single end point that ties back into the show itself's larger plot(heck, one of the last episodes of the season goes right back to Kindergarten).

But then you have basically any given episode with Lars and Sadie. She wants him, he blows her off, she whines, they kiss up, wind up back at square one. This is the summary of literally any and every episode featuring Lars and Sadie. Their episodes may well not have happened 75% of the time they show up.

[eggynack]

There's a difference between that and this.

Look at say, Amethyst. She starts off being a goofy comic relief character who expands through her episodes to reveal a bunch of extra character traits which eventually tie back into Peridot's larger plans, giving her a dramatic side without losing the comedy bits. Or Pearl, who's mostly a stuck up know it all but increasingly has to confront periods where she's wrong and that maybe her way of doing things isn't always best. There's a clear evolution of a character and a progression they follow to a single end point that ties back into the show itself's larger plot(heck, one of the last episodes of the season goes right back to Kindergarten).

But then you have basically any given episode with Lars and Sadie. She wants him, he blows her off, she whines, they kiss up, wind up back at square one. This is the summary of literally any and every episode featuring Lars and Sadie. Their episodes may well not have happened 75% of the time they show up.

My issue with that claim, however, is that that doesn't seem like an accurate description of Island Adventure. Before this, the closest they'd ever come was in Joking Victim, where Sadie only implied her interest in a way that Lars may have not even noticed, and where the closest Lars came to doing anything about it was offering to help out, not even apologizing.

By contrast, in Island Adventure, Lars kisses her. Completely of his own volition. He shows his vulnerability in a way I don't think he ever really had beforehand. He didn't blow her off at all, and their relationship was only put in jeopardy by Sadie screwing up, a thing which, again, hasn't really happened in the show before. There isn't just some weird and unresolved romantic tension between them. They both know exactly what's going on, and it's a thing that's deeply troubling.

Considering their individual arcs, Lars has grown somewhat from a person who always hides his vulnerability because he's scared of what others will think of him into someone who is willing to bear his feelings, and who, one time out of three, would have totally given Steven a high five. He's a person driven by fear to a great extent, but that's slowly becoming less true. At the same time, Sadie is moving from a completely passive observer to someone who's willing to stand up for herself and her desires. Granted, there are some growing pains there, because there are often literally explosive results, but she started the show more willing to let people walk over her, and that's been going away a bit. If I really think anything deserves some continuation, it's her personal character development rather than relationship development, especially the stuff from Lion 3.

[Flickerdart]

"Aren't you your own mom?" is the best line of the show so far.

[eggynack]

"Aren't you your own mom?" is the best line of the show so far.

It's pretty high up there, though I'm rather partial to, "Hello, this is...Mom Universe. Yes, the children are playing swords. Sorry, playing with swords. They're bleeding. Oh no, they are dead. Don't call again. *hangs up* Sorry, I panicked." Really excellent delivery. Also, from this episode, "You've got that much-needed counterpoint to our cynical worldview." I really like just about everything that comes out of his mouth, actually.

[Fawkes]

You're both wrong. The best line is "You always say you're going to be the crocodile, but you never COMMIT!"

[eggynack]

You're both wrong. The best line is "You always say you're going to be the crocodile, but you never COMMIT!"

You may well be correct. Man, this show has some good lines. I don't think I give it enough credit for that particular aspect. Get too caught up in everything else.

[Fralex]

What are we talking about? Something about story arc planning? Whatevs, I just wanna say this episode had me giggling a lot. I continue to appreciate the subversive way the show makes these three older "coolkids" not only legitimately cool, but often a good influence and at worst a slightly reckless one.

Also, I demand that anytime someone makes a post that's about something other than the latest episode, they include an amusing Steven Universe gif. This isn't a punishment, I just like seeing them. That Fawkes guy had a good idea.