Steven Universe

[eggynack]

I don't care about if it's one or the other. Just that there's a sense of appropriate time and place.

If it's about emotional resonance and schmaltz, don't constantly throw in the idea that there's this overarching monster that's a serious threat to people. It's kind of distracting.

It's about both. It's a show about emotional resonance using monster fights both as a motivator to action, and as a sort of proxy for whatever emotionally resonant thing is happening.

Generally speaking if they didn't freak out and try to grab it by force they'd probably have gotten it back. Problem solved.

Not necessarily. Even had they asked for it nicely, Lapis would still be really resistant to that outcome, and her screaming may have necessitated a firmer touch. Then, of course, given enough time Lapis would have probably attempted her escape.

There's a difference between just saying something was a problem and trying to prevent it from happening again. Or being proactive and explaining to Steven what Perdiot most likley is and what her goals probably are. She wasn't exactly being secretive, mentioning Kindergarten within earshot and announcing her goals out loud.

Steven knew about as much about Peridot as the gems did. He just disagreed about what they should do about her. I guess they could have explained why it was stupid better, but it seemed like a pretty obvious thing, both from an inside and outside perspective.

There's a difference between perfect rationality and attempted rationality.

Same thing then. Amethyst isn't usually going to even attempt rationality, because it's just not her approach in most situations. Pearl and Garnet are likely to try it in some situations, but they have things they're consistently irrational about as well, including other gems on occasion.

The show is simply static. Things have happened, but the characters are around exactly the same.

Its a static unchanging shows where feelings are like the monsters of the week. They do stuff for an episode, get resolved, and then it never matters again. Its not akin to a drama where relationships and actions create a complicated net of events and interactions.

I don't really see why you think any of this. There's hardly a single episode that does not impact future episodes, and many episodes present new emotional angles to old stuff. Some of my favorite examples of this are Space Race considered in the context of Rose's Scabbard ("Why would I ever want to leave, when you're here?"), Alone Together considered in the context of The Return, or hell, even something as simple as Amethyst's reaction to Greg in Laser Light Cannon in the context of Maximum Capacity and later Story for Steven (and also the stuff in Maximum Capacity in the context of Story).

This show has characters that are constantly being deepened, from the top all the way on down, and they way they change tends to stick in pretty subtle ways. I mean, just consider how often Steven has learned something in an episode, and then applied it in another without even really thinking about it. For some example, think using Lion's mane as a storage device, activating Rose's armory, thinking his way through Rose's room more effectively, using the teleportation pad, bubbling gems, creating a bubble shield, and so on. All things that were difficult in the first episode they appeared in, and slowly grew easier over time. That's frigging complex stuff.

Side note, Jayngfet: Seems like Peridot was coming to Earth either way. She has no knowledge of the Crystal Gems at all while she's sending her probes, so its likely Lapis didn't tattle on them.

True enough. They may have been less likely to take a detour to the crystal gems, but it seems like a better outcome that they did, given that the alternative was consuming the earth to produce gems or whatever.

[Scowling Dragon]

Examples: of this are Space Race considered in the context of Rose's Scabbard ("Why would I ever want to leave, when you're here?"), Alone Together considered in the context of The Return, or hell, even something as simple as Amethyst's reaction to Greg in Laser Light Cannon in the context of Maximum Capacity and later Story for Steven (and also the stuff in Maximum Capacity in the context of Story).

Callback is not the same thing as progression or change.

This show has characters that are constantly being deepened,

HA . I love that you said deepened and not developed which is absolutely true.

Lets take Pearl being gaga for Rose. Steven finds out aaand.....Nothing changes. He doesn't view Pearls affection in a different light, reject it, or feel betrayed. Or some other long term reaction or such, even positive or something.

Characters have stuff dug up (Deepened as you may say), but when it comes to that stuff meaning things in terms of interactions they don't change anything.

An example of a DEVELOPMENT, would be the Townsfolk REALY getting involved with the Crystal Gems after the context of the Return. They Demand answers because stuff like this have gone on long enough!

But they don't, because that changes the Status quo, military gets involved or people treat Steven Differently, or something.
Instead they just brush it off like fakey fake people. Because the show is static.

The only person who seems to have developed at all in all of this is GREG.

[endoperez]

Doesn't anyone else find it weird that, in this thread, right after an episode with meta-commentary on who'd want to watch a cartoon about people crying (i.e. being emotional), you guys are arguing about whether characters being emotional (e.g. crying) makes a cartoon show worse?

This isn't the first time the show is being meta, but it's eerily on-point this time.

As for the episode: it was fun, it was kept very light and easy to watch and digest, even though it could've been played for lots of drama. I think I prefer the dramatic and heavy episodes, like Rose's Scabbard, or Lion 3: Straight to Video, and... well, actually all the episodes where the gems cry.

[eggynack]

Callback is not the same thing as progression or change.

They're not just callbacks, is the thing. Pearl has an underlying desire to return home that's been developed over a couple of episodes, and given a harsh edge over a couple more. It's a change both from the way we've seen her and the way she's acted, and that's more than a callback to me.

HA . I love that you said deepened and not developed which is absolutely true.

Lets take Pearl being gaga for Rose. Steven finds out aaand.....Nothing changes. He doesn't view Pearls affection in a different light, reject it, or feel betrayed. Or some other long term reaction or such, even positive or something.

Characters have stuff dug up (Deepened as you may say), but when it comes to that stuff meaning things in terms of interactions they don't change anything.

I think the issue is that you expect these things to be massive, when really they're just ordinary life events. Yeah, it's important, and it gets added to the tapestry of the show, but you don't need to change everything in response to a revelation like that, especially when I doubt Steven views Pearl's relationship with Rose romantically.

An example of a DEVELOPMENT, would be the Townsfolk REALY getting involved with the Crystal Gems after the context of the Return. They Demand answers because stuff like this have gone on long enough!

It sounds like we may be getting something along the lines of that with the Ronaldo two parter coming up, where he looks into gem stuff, and some town-gem interactions in that amazing sounding Pearl teaching Connie sword fighting episode. Seriously, that's going to be a thing, and it sounds amazing. But anyway, it didn't feel like anything happened that was so out of the ordinary that the town would go crazy. They had to evacuate, but it was temporary, and the town's gone through semi-destruction stuff before. I just don't see why this would be that different from their perspective.

Instead they just brush it off like fakey fake people. Because the show is static.

Or they brush it off like normal people who have gone through bad things before, and take these things in stride. Monsters show up in Beach City sometimes, and you just step back and rebuild, because otherwise you wind up like Ocean Town.

The only person who seems to have developed at all in all of this is GREG.

I can't think of all that many characters that haven't been developed. Lars has gone from someone who's constantly abrasive to a guy that'd give Steven a high five in one out of three possible futures. Sadie has started standing up for herself, and may have a building relationship with her mother, especially cause she was introduced as a character. Garnet gained an appreciation for Steven's approach to missions and life, shown best by how she trusted him with future vision stuff. Connie has been slowly shedding her insecurities, until she became a person willing to stand up for her friendship with Steven without falling apart emotionally like she did in a few of her early episodes. Buck's eventual re-connection with the Mayor came after about two separate episodes of set-up, which represents a development in my eyes. Amethyst has been dealing with insecurities with the way she's seen for awhile, and I think she's been getting better at it each time, first requiring others to do all the work, then kinda coming to a middle place after a bigger issue, and then resolving it largely on her own.

It's a lot of stuff, in other words, and there are probably even others I'm missing. But, y'know, I tend to like the more deepening-centric view on characterization. It gives the impression that this world has existed since long before Steven and the show have, It's a show that is, on some level, about learning about the world, because that's what Steven's main goal is. It matters that the gems are aliens or whatever, but it also really seriously matters that Mr. Maheswaran is a bad snow driver and appreciates cherry having clothing, or that Mayor Dewey has a thing for Pearl. Those facts don't necessarily need to go anywhere, because honestly, how many aspects of your life go somewhere really important, but they're vital to the development of the world.

[Scowling Dragon]

[QUOTE]

I think the issue is that you expect these things to be massive, when really they're just ordinary life events.

No they are not, and yes it is massive, so I expect massive events.

Yeah, it's important, and it gets added to the tapestry of the show, but you don't need to change everything in response to a revelation like that

That is literally what development IS. CHAAANGE. C-H-A-N-G-E. People changing in response to stimuli. At least MINIMALLY. For longer then the length of an episode. Minimal change shows APATHY on the side of characters. Or staticity on the side of showmakers.

They had to evacuate, but it was temporary, and the town's gone through semi-destruction stuff before. I just don't see why this would be that different from their perspective.

This is exactly my point. Your using backwards insane logic to justify more backwards insane logic:

"These people are apathetic puppets, so I don't see why they would react differently"
Its akin to saying "Well these people didn't react when they had their skin melted off so why did you think they would care if they where impaled?"

I don't know what you are looking for in a story. What Im looking for is characters that I can relate too. Even if they are in a different environment, if they handle things similarly to how a real person handles them unless there is an explained reason they do not.

Are these regenerating immortal people who feel no pain? If so explain, if not then thats just bad lazy hack fakey fake writing.

These are basic, BASIC, writing aspects. Not snobby snooty stuff only known by elite writers.

BASIC

If the Gems are super normal in this world, then why don't people know what they are. If they are not normal, then why don't they react more.

These people are fakey fake inbetweeny people convenient for the status qou people. Im not talking about one conspiracy theorist *******, or a girl learning how to fence.

Greg is the only person in town who seems to GIVE A ****. "THE GEMS ARE ALIENS THAT TRIED TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD". Unless this is apathy land, and Greg is the only person in the Universe (Get it?) with both a clue and a ****, why don't more people react to the strange explosions and monsters that erupt around their town?

You listed Connie as an example, which is another person who seems to give a **** about her surroundings. Not nearly enough, and her Parents are insane, which shows them to be these fakey unreal plastic fake people existing only so that the fake situation set up by this world can uphold the fakey fake status quo, but she at least acknowledges the reality at least a little bit.

But, y'know, I tend to like the more deepening-centric view on characterization.

Now I understand. You don't want characters to interact with each other. You just want pretty dolls with "Deepness" for decoration. Each character interaction is another ribbon of "Deepness" added to the doll. Which is why you like your fakey fake characters.

Which is exactly my point. "Deepness" is static. A character (If at least consistently written) will be as deep as they started. You just know about it now. Enjoy your dolls. But as an animator, I prefer characters that I could for a moment or more believe where alive.

[eggynack]

No they are not, and yes it is massive, so I expect massive events.

It really depends on your perspective. Who is Rose's Scabbard a massive event to? Pearl obviously knew all of this stuff before the episode, so not her, and even in the episode, Steven mostly wanted Pearl to feel better as opposed to seeking some great change. He cares about these things insofar as they hurt her.

That is literally what development IS. CHAAANGE. C-H-A-N-G-E. People changing in response to stimuli. At least MINIMALLY. For longer then the length of an episode. Minimal change shows APATHY on the side of characters. Or staticity on the side of showmakers.

I think the issue here is that the characters care more about certain things, and less about the stuff you care about. Like, Lars cares way more about the evolution of his relationship with Sadie, and with the cool kids, and with Ronaldo, then he does about some crazy magic stuff. And, y'know, all those relationships have changed over the course of the show. You're looking at this really particular kinda change that you expect to happen, but ignoring the actual change that is happening.

This is exactly my point. Your using backwards insane logic to justify more backwards insane logic:

"These people are apathetic puppets, so I don't see why they would react differently"
Its akin to saying "Well these people didn't react when they had their skin melted off so why did you think they would care if they where impaled?"

They're not apathetic puppets. They just don't feel the need to call in the army when something supernatural happens, because that's just part of their world. Gems have been around for thousands of years in this world, and so have gem monsters. We knew that the reaction of the townsfolk would be about like this, because this is just how they act around this sort of thing. Their reaction to cat fingers, or to living french fries, or to a giant eye crashing into the town, is to say, "Huh, that's weird," and get back to their lives. Why wouldn't it be? To them, these problems are just part of the fabric of their lives, like some natural disaster in an area prone to them. If people got impaled every day, then I'd see it as pretty likely that they wouldn't revolt when one more impalement happened, especially because nothing all that bad really came from the events of the finale. You just see it as worse because you know how big a threat it was.

I don't know what you are looking for in a story. What Im looking for is characters that I can relate too. Even if they are in a different environment, if they handle things similarly to how a real person handles them unless there is an explained reason they do not.

I'm also seeking characters I relate to, but unlike you I relate to these people. I care about their doing, and they come across as real to me, more than in most shows. They just happen to not care as much about supernatural goings on as you think they should, which I think makes sense given the context of the universe.

Are these regenerating immortal people who feel no pain? If so explain, if not then thats just bad lazy hack fakey fake writing.

No, but at the same time no one really got hurt in the invasion, so I don't see how it applies. Really, I'd think people would be more impacted by the flood of Dave guys and cars flooding the entire town, before suddenly disappearing. That was crazy.

If the Gems are super normal in this world, then why don't people know what they are. If they are not normal, then why don't they react more.

They kinda seem to know what the Gems are. Not like, intimate details of their operation, but enough that they don't really question the existence of magic. Has there really been that much indication that folks don't know about the gems? It seems like they know enough.

These people are fakey fake inbetweeny people convenient for the status qou people. Im not talking about one conspiracy theorist *******, or a girl learning how to fence.

Greg is the only person in town who seems to GIVE A ****. "THE GEMS ARE ALIENS THAT TRIED TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD". Unless this is apathy land, and Greg is the only person in the Universe (Get it?) with both a clue and a ****, why don't more people react to the strange explosions and monsters that erupt around their town?

Greg doesn't care that much about the invasion, beyond the fact that it specifically impacted Steven. Moreover, he didn't really know how serious it was before Steven told him, because how would he? How was anyone supposed to know how serious it was? Hell, how serious even was it? It was serious to our protagonists, because they were being taken to the home planet, but for the citizens it just meant a few days out of town.

You listed Connie as an example, which is another person who seems to give a **** about her surroundings. Not nearly enough, and her Parents are insane, which shows them to be these fakey unreal plastic fake people existing only so that the fake situation set up by this world can uphold the fakey fake status quo, but she at least acknowledges the reality at least a little bit.

Her parents seem pretty reasonable to me. Maybe you can spend some time actually justifying the harsh rhetoric you're tossing around.

Now I understand. You don't want characters to interact with each other. You just want pretty dolls with "Deepness" for decoration. Each character interaction is another ribbon of "Deepness" added to the doll. Which is why you like your fakey fake characters.

Which is exactly my point. "Deepness" is static. A character (If at least consistently written) will be as deep as they started. You just know about it now. Enjoy your dolls. But as an animator, I prefer characters that I could for a moment or more believe where alive.

Well, now you're just being arbitrarily insulting. Or, not so much now, but through this whole post. Again, I don't see these characters as fake. They have complex internal lives that develop over the course of the show, and they do change, even if you don't see it. It's subtle, and it's intricate, but it's very much there. In fact, this is possibly the only show I know of that manages to get me invested in every single solitary relationship depicted, whether it's as important as the one between Steven and Connie, or as secondary as the ones between Kiki and Jenny, or even Dewey and Pearl. These characters just seem so real, and so interesting, and I like watching the continued development of their lives.

Edit: I mean, seriously, it feels like your definition of "dynamic character" is, "Cares a lot about the goings on with the crystal gems." Can't you see how weirdly myopic that is? Characters are allowed to care about their own lives more than all of this crazy gem stuff, and it actually makes them more interesting. Yeah, sure, the Pizza family knows about the gems in a distant sort of way, but they care more about their own lives, about their day to day business, and their relationships with each other as well as outsiders. They care more about those things because nearly everyone does. Crazy important stuff goes on in the world every day, some of it pretty close to home, but your own boring little life is inevitably going to matter more to you the vast majority of the time. You apparently think that not caring so much about this magical destiny stuff makes these characters less realistic, but I think it makes them more realistic. They care when it's destroying the sign at their restaurant, or shutting off the electricity, or just making weird crap happen in general, but it's not a constant concern, and when life just is this way, you learn to live with it.

[endoperez]

Here's an example of Steven learning that there are situations where he has to be serious and focus on his job.

Spoiler: Steven's job

Show

In the beginning, he couldn't keep it straight. He didn't know what he was supposed to do, he made things worse by doing things without thinking them through, etc. During the show, he has learned that gem stuff is serious and has to be taken seriously. This is a recurring theme so I'm only posting two examples with similar scenes with a lot of episodes, and character change, in between.

-> Lars and the Cool Kids (Steven knows the teens are doing something they shouldn't that might be dangerous, but he doesn't even manage to say it properly. )
-> Full Disclosure ("Everybody told me gem stuff's dangerous, I guess I didn't believe it - until now")
-> Joyride (Steven tries to talk the teens out of doing something he knows is dangerous, and he tries to explain, but they don't listen, and he is eventually talked into playing with it. )

Example of how Pearl's "deeper" characterization has changed how she's shown to interact with others:

Spoiler: Pearl the mechanic

Show

-> House Guest (she's shown fixing Greg's car - the first time we see she's capable of working with machines - and she wants to push him away as soon as possible)
-> Space Race (she builds a spaceship - even though it breaks down, it shows that she's capable of building complex machines, and this also forced her to interact with Greg)
-> On the Run (she is looking into Peridot's robonoids and trying to understand them)
-> Political Power (she was trying to build a robot-killing machine, but it only disrupted the power grid)
-> Reformed (she's fixing Greg's car - and hanging out with him)

Example of how Steven has learned to stand up to the Gems when he disagrees with what they're doing:

Spoiler: Taking a stand

Show

-> Monster Buddies (S:"Please, Garnet, I'm begging you")
-> Mirror Gem (S:"she wants to stay with ME!"... S:"I'm SORRRYYYY!")
-> Space Race (S:"Pearl, sometimes you gotta know when to bail")
-> Warp Tour (S:"I'm a little tired of you guys telling me how I feel." and Amethyst replying "Erm, this is new. I kinda like it!")
-> The Return ( G: "I won't let you risk your life!" S: "But this is my home, and you're all my family!")

[Gopher Wizard]

HUG TIME!!!

Anyone else think that episode was a little dark?

Spoiler: Minor Reformed Spoilers

Show

Amethyst finds a human skull, Garnet severs her hands and shoot them. Is it just me, or is that a little hardcore.

Also, Amethyst Pearl my favorite Amethyst.

And now I'm convinced Amethyst is basically the King of Town from HSR:

"Hey Steven, I'm making a sandwich. Do we have any motor oil?"
"I think that stuff's just for cars."

That almost completely mimics a line from this sbemail.

[Jayngfet]

Here's an example of Steven learning that there are situations where he has to be serious and focus on his job.

Spoiler: Steven's job

Show

In the beginning, he couldn't keep it straight. He didn't know what he was supposed to do, he made things worse by doing things without thinking them through, etc. During the show, he has learned that gem stuff is serious and has to be taken seriously. This is a recurring theme so I'm only posting two examples with similar scenes with a lot of episodes, and character change, in between.

-> Lars and the Cool Kids (Steven knows the teens are doing something they shouldn't that might be dangerous, but he doesn't even manage to say it properly. )
-> Full Disclosure ("Everybody told me gem stuff's dangerous, I guess I didn't believe it - until now")
-> Joyride (Steven tries to talk the teens out of doing something he knows is dangerous, and he tries to explain, but they don't listen, and he is eventually talked into playing with it. )

Notice how little an impact that has on anything. He knows not to do something, but he lets it happen anyway. Or he ignores them. Or something else happens that makes any attempt at caution or development totally meaningless.

Literally nothing in any of those cases would have changed if he was the same dumbass kid from episode 1. He changed a minimal amount, but the results never do.

[eggynack]

Notice how little an impact that has on anything. He knows not to do something, but he lets it happen anyway. Or he ignores them. Or something else happens that makes any attempt at caution or development totally meaningless.

Literally nothing in any of those cases would have changed if he was the same dumbass kid from episode 1. He changed a minimal amount, but the results never do.

I don't think those examples were great either, but that doesn't mean Steven hasn't changed substantially. It feels like he's become so much more effective over time, as well as intelligent and insightful. The fact that the show definitely feels that way, which is particularly obvious given the fact that you pointed out that he's absolutely changed, despite the fact that pointing to a particular moment in time where it's super obvious is a non-trivial task, is a thing that's really impressive to me. Steven hasn't just poofed into a hyper-competent stud over the course of the episode. Instead, he's gone through a slow evolution of character over the course of a pile of episodes, slowly picking up skills, ability, and his own approach to problems.

[Jayngfet]

I don't think those examples were great either, but that doesn't mean Steven hasn't changed substantially. It feels like he's become so much more effective over time, as well as intelligent and insightful. The fact that the show definitely feels that way, which is particularly obvious given the fact that you pointed out that he's absolutely changed, despite the fact that pointing to a particular moment in time where it's super obvious is a non-trivial task, is a thing that's really impressive to me. Steven hasn't just poofed into a hyper-competent stud over the course of the episode. Instead, he's gone through a slow evolution of character over the course of a pile of episodes, slowly picking up skills, ability, and his own approach to problems.

Yeah, but all that is meaningless if it gets no results. A change that doesn't change anything isn't one.

[eggynack]

Yeah, but all that is meaningless if it gets no results. A change that doesn't change anything isn't one.

I'm not really sure what results means to you. Like, it does have results. He managed to reform a gem to the point where it basically sacrificed itself, and he started the process of helping Amethyst and Pearl overcome these really deep set issues, and he got the gems out of prison (this is more linked to the initial decision to return than to any later thing doing in the actual prison), and he did a whole bunch of other stuff throughout the show. Really, if the results aren't easy to see, it's because he was doing a good amount of succeeding in the early part of the show, rather than because he's failing now, but the things he's succeeding at are more difficult now, and they include things that the other gems haven't really done. And, y'know, he's learning. Compare his use of the bubble in its first episode, where using it was a big enough issue that it was the source of most of the external conflict, to his use of the bubble in Jailbreak, where he did it as easily as breathing. If there weren't results, then the gems would've been trapped in that bubble for an entire episode.

[Jayngfet]

I'm not really sure what results means to you. Like, it does have results. He managed to reform a gem to the point where it basically sacrificed itself, and he started the process of helping Amethyst and Pearl overcome these really deep set issues, and he got the gems out of prison (this is more linked to the initial decision to return than to any later thing doing in the actual prison), and he did a whole bunch of other stuff throughout the show. Really, if the results aren't easy to see, it's because he was doing a good amount of succeeding in the early part of the show, rather than because he's failing now, but the things he's succeeding at are more difficult now, and they include things that the other gems haven't really done. And, y'know, he's learning. Compare his use of the bubble in its first episode, where using it was a big enough issue that it was the source of most of the external conflict, to his use of the bubble in Jailbreak, where he did it as easily as breathing. If there weren't results, then the gems would've been trapped in that bubble for an entire episode.

Centipeedle dying has no real result if the only conflict was him releasing it in the first place. It's a self contained thing that has no stakes other than itself and has thus far lead to nothing after it. If he'd been shown trying again maybe but he kinda just gave up after that point.

Pearls issues have only really became notable as of late and are mostly because of the way he handled things to begin with. He's not actually making an active effort to help her. The same can be said of Amethyst.

He got the gems out of prison again on pure luck. They had no way of knowing he could get them out and he had no way of knowing either. The odds were just as good he'd be screwed and hauled off planet as far as they knew.

He has the bubble, which I'll give you, but learning one thing in fifty episodes isn't really saying much. Especially when it's the most basic and bare minimum of skills.

[LaZodiac]

Centipeedle dying has no real result if the only conflict was him releasing it in the first place. It's a self contained thing that has no stakes other than itself and has thus far lead to nothing after it. If he'd been shown trying again maybe but he kinda just gave up after that point.

He got the gems out of prison again on pure luck. They had no way of knowing he could get them out and he had no way of knowing either. The odds were just as good he'd be screwed and hauled off planet as far as they knew.

He has the bubble, which I'll give you, but learning one thing in fifty episodes isn't really saying much. Especially when it's the most basic and bare minimum of skills.

He tried to help Lapis when she was in her mirror form. That's directly influenced by him trying to help the Centipeedle. And it clearly helped Lapis as well.

He only tried that because he became brave from his previous adventures.

[eggynack]

Centipeedle dying has no real result if the only conflict was him releasing it in the first place. It's a self contained thing that has no stakes other than itself and has thus far lead to nothing after it. If he'd been shown trying again maybe but he kinda just gave up after that point.

As was noted, it had direct impact on his dealing with Lapis, and as I'm noting now, it's an aspect of a larger tendency in the show where Steven is slowly inheriting Rose's legacy. In isolation, him going to her room, or learning about her armory, or figuring out Lion, or starting to heal gems seem relatively minor, but as a group they have larger meaning, and they represent an important development.

Pearls issues have only really became notable as of late and are mostly because of the way he handled things to begin with. He's not actually making an active effort to help her. The same can be said of Amethyst.

I think he was pretty mature in the way he dealt with those problems, and while Pearl's issues only apparently showed up recently, they've probably hung around unsaid for awhile. Amethyst implied in the episode that this sort of thing happens with Pearl a lot, and it's also implied that the gems just kinda hang back when she gets like that, like they did in that case. Steven broke that enforced silence surrounding the issue, and got Pearl to actually talk about it, which is an important first step.

More importantly, unlike in earlier episodes where Steven's accomplishments could probably be done reasonably by the other gems if he weren't there (consider pushing the breakfast in Together Breakfast, or giving them an opening in Gem Glow, or basically normally fighting Frybo in Frybo), this was a task that Steven was uniquely capable of accomplishing. As I've said earlier in this thread, I'm actually inclined to think that the gems were acting below their competency in some early episodes in order to give Steven room to grow, a theory backed up by The Test, and to the extent that that's a valid hypothesis, it's been diminishing in truth value recently.

Amethyst was faced with a pretty similar situation, except in this case Steven did even better. Amethyst's issues with how she's viewed on the basis of her past have literally gone unsaid for hundreds or thousands of years. Without Steven's intervention, Pearl still wouldn't know how much she's hurting on this stuff, and Amethyst would still think of herself as a mistake, and that'd just keep extending on into infinity. Did Steven somehow manage to spontaneously cure all of Amethyst's feelings of self doubt? No, of course not, and it'd be ridiculous to expect him to, but he did help her take some real steps, and he helped solve one of the major underlying causes of her issues.

As for your assertion that these things were Steven-caused, I don't see how that's the case except in the most abstract possible way. Yeah, I guess saying he knew stuff about Rose, or trying to emulate book characters, could be vaguely considered to be the impetus for the plots, but there's no possible way Steven could have considered those as plausible outcomes, and there's no way he should have done so. I barely even consider these things accidents, because they're rooted so strongly in the underlying issues of the gems, and in Pearl's case especially, this is a thing that apparently happens sometimes without Steven's intervention. Thus, even if you were to pin some of this on Steven's doing, said fault does not rest on some lack of development in Steven's character, because he didn't really do anything wrong.

He got the gems out of prison again on pure luck. They had no way of knowing he could get them out and he had no way of knowing either. The odds were just as good he'd be screwed and hauled off planet as far as they knew.

As I said, his primary doing in that episode was the decision to return, and do so on a relatively rational basis. I mean, he pretty immediately after that protected the gems from a death laser, so there's a solid causal connection between the reasoning behind his decision and what ended up happening. Really, while Steven technically did lead to the escape, that episode was Garnet's, and The Return was his. And that first episode is what showed his emotional growth.

He has the bubble, which I'll give you, but learning one thing in fifty episodes isn't really saying much. Especially when it's the most basic and bare minimum of skills.

I gave a good pile of things he's learned in another post. They range from the mechanics or Rose's room, to Lion's operations, to armory stuff, to occasional shield use, to healing that hung around a bit and then poofed (both directions actually represent a form of development, in a broad sense), to just standard increased ability to move (compare early episodes to his acrobatic capabilities in something like Rose's Scabbard). Steven learns things, and those things stick

[Fawkes]

Now, you too can discover which Crying Breakfast Friend you are!

I'm Sniffling Croissant!

[eggynack]

Done did it, and as I recall from before when it occurred, I got pining grapefruit. I can dig it. Pretty sure that's Greg, and I've always really liked Greg.

Anyway, as more support for the notion that the townsfolk totally know at least a reasonable amount about the magical nature of the world, just consider reactions to Lion. He's a massive pink lion, and he's totally allowed to get a ticket to a movie theater, and then later is allowed into the Big Donut. The ticket lady is slightly shocked, maybe, but Sadie tops out at kinda bemused. Sure, he seems kinda domesticated, but he's still big, pink, and a lion. We know from seeing things onscreen that Jailbreak isn't the first time stuff has been destroyed, and from the general nature of reality, I can figure that it's not the first time there's been an evacuation either. All in all, having everyone get up in arms about what went down would feel kinda at odds with the current reality of the show, and they'd need a more serious impetus than this (maybe there'll be one in the two-parter coming up) for it to stop feeling at odds.

[endoperez]

Sooo....

Hiatus? I hear there's one, and I've heard it's going to last 2 or 3 months but so far I've only been able to dig up rumours as sources. Anyone know any details about this?

[eggynack]

Sooo....

Hiatus? I hear there's one, and I've heard it's going to last 2 or 3 months but so far I've only been able to dig up rumours as sources. Anyone know any details about this?

Don't know anything, but it makes sense. They just kinda jumped right into a second season with zero lag time, and the two-parter that's apparently the next episode makes sense as a break from a hiatus. Sucks if it's true, because I was seriously looking forward to Sworn to the Sword. That episode just sounds like everything I desire.

[Fawkes]

A summer hiatus is pretty standard.

[Gopher Wizard]

I have sort of this weird interpretation: are the Crying Breakfast Friends a weird, dark humor spoof of Annoying Orange? Like, Annoying Orange is so over the top and "cheerful" and dumb and Crying Breakfast Friends is like the Pagliacci of that. Underneath the clown makeup, their just sad depressed people. I could be wrong, and the creator probably never intended it to be like that, but that's how I choose to interpret it. Anyone agree or am I just crazy?

[Fawkes]

I have sort of this weird interpretation: are the Crying Breakfast Friends a weird, dark humor spoof of Annoying Orange? Like, Annoying Orange is so over the top and "cheerful" and dumb and Crying Breakfast Friends is like the Pagliacci of that. Underneath the clown makeup, their just sad depressed people. I could be wrong, and the creator probably never intended it to be like that, but that's how I choose to interpret it. Anyone agree or am I just crazy?

That's what I thought at first, too, when they first showed up. If that was the intention, the Breakfast Friends were more clearly a surrogate for Steven Universe itself it the most recent episode.

[endoperez]

Why is so much screentime devoted to Peedee? Why is he shown so often in the background, while he very rarely has a major role in the actual episodes?

I was thinking about these questions, and started wondering if he might be the mundane, non-magical counterpart to Steven.

Peedee was first introduced in Frybo, where he had a monologoy on how we work to make money, or impress our parents, not just for the smiles of the people. He mentions how he wanted to help at the family business, but was only given the role of a bumbling comic relief. In the end his father respects him for who he is, instead of what he thinks he should've been based on his memories of what once was. At the end of the season, in The Return, Peedee is closing the shop by himself and Greg comments on how much his dad trusts him. During the evacuation, Peedee hangs on to the shop and doesn't want to leave.

Steven, in Frybo, screwed up, caused the trouble, and after enthusiastically announcing that he's "doing his job" trying to stop the Frybo costume he fails again. In his early adventures, he was the bumbling comic relief. As he slowly becomes able to help the Gems, he also learns some responsibility. During the evacuation in The Return, he's reluctant to go but agrees because he's told that the gems trust him, and then goes back to the beach because his dad trusts him.

The timelines don't match, but the parallels are there. Thoughts?

[Jayngfet]

I think it's better to say that Peedee is one of those characters they meant to do something with but never got around to.

I mean on paper he's Stevens only friend his age. But that means you can't force relationship drama or have him winge on about social status so he got dropped so Steven can hang out with a bunch of people like a decade older than him.

[eggynack]

I think it's better to say that Peedee is one of those characters they meant to do something with but never got around to.

Don't really know why you think that. He's been having a relatively normal amount of appearances for a background character who may occasionally have more substantial material, and that's what he is. They did get around to doing something with him after all, and it's called Frybo. Saying that they never got around to doing anything with a character that had his own episode seems rather odd. In any case, I don't really see the frequency of Peedee scenes as that aberrant for his role. It's not substantially more or less than what, say, Dewey or Mister Smiley gets.

[Scowling Dragon]

I realized which show Steven Universe reminds me of. Megas XLR. Same type of deal.

We got this guy, given the potential for massive power, but he mainly uses it to grill cheese, and stupid stuff. Unless forced by an alien invasion or some other monster, he just lounges around watches wrestling and plays video-games. When he has Technology that could revolutionize the world.

Everybody around him is utterly apathetic to his antics, the time traveller from the future, and the alien invasions that happen on a regular basis and the destruction that befalls their city. Except Megas XLR is more self aware and comedic about the nature of its ridiculous premise and even in some sense characters that care about their surroundings, while Steven Universes Characters "Deepen".

[Fawkes]

Seriously, this whole 'every decision the show makes is wrong' shtick is really getting tiring.

Like, it'd be one thing if you were at all constructive, but it's just the same 'I hate this show and the writers are hacks' Every. Single. Time. And now there's two of you!

If you don't like the direction the show is going, you do not have to watch the show! There are other shows! If you're committed to hate-watching, there are probably communities that will hate-watch it with you! All you're doing here is just making the discussion super unpleasant for the people that actually LIKE the show.

[eggynack]

We got this guy, given the potential for massive power, but he mainly uses it to grill cheese, and stupid stuff. Unless forced by an alien invasion or some other monster, he just lounges around watches wrestling and plays video-games. When he has Technology that could revolutionize the world.

I agree. Steven does primarily use his powers in really practical and pragmatic ways that fit into his daily life, especially given the fact that he's a kid, and I think it's awesome. More than in most shows, Steven's super powered side feels fully integrated into his real life. He finds out his lion has extra-planar space, and he immediately fills it with all manner of cool stuff. Who's to say it doesn't also have practical stuff? It might, or it might not, and maybe it has the kinda stuff he stored in his backpack. That's such an interesting thing. If I had some extra-planar lion, I'd totally put snacks in it. That's my heart right there.

Everybody around him is utterly apathetic to his antics, the time traveller from the future, and the alien invasions that happen on a regular basis and the destruction that befalls their city. Except Megas XLR is more self aware and comedic about the nature of its ridiculous premise and even in some sense characters that care about their surroundings, while Steven Universes Characters "Deepen".

As I keep saying, the townsfolk don't care all that much about the magic, because A: it's just a fundamental part of their lives, as the gems have been around for thousands of years and have altered the culture, especially in their stomping ground, and B: they lead their own lives, and have things that are more important to them than aliens and such. This isn't a TV show with a more important A plot to them. To them, it's their lives, where there happen to be these big issues just like exist in our world, but the continued success of their self made business is far more important. They're like us, in a way. Our world has all this crazy stuff that goes down, and that stuff is often really important, but our personal issues that would be so much less important to outside observers are far more important to us.

[Jayngfet]

As I keep saying, the townsfolk don't care all that much about the magic, because A: it's just a fundamental part of their lives, as the gems have been around for thousands of years and have altered the culture, especially in their stomping ground, and B: they lead their own lives, and have things that are more important to them than aliens and such.

Ok this bit right here is flat out untrue. The gems don't actually interact with the townsfolk enough for it to be considered normal and pretty much even seeing them was rare even a generation ago.

Likewise you can't say it isn't important given how Steven's friends reacted when they found out about invasions.

They aren't comic book citizens who go through this stuff every week. They're regular people who don't actually have much experience with these things.

[Scowling Dragon]

Yeah. I mean Coop has a certain Joy to what he builds and makes. He enjoys decking out his Robot with stuff he doesn't even know what it fully does.

But Steven is so much more impressive. I mean, he has this Lion with superpowers thats connected to his past and his mother, and he uses it as a mobile locker. Thuggin impressive man.

I also love the fact that the episode that Steven actually attempts to study his powers, is explicitly non cannon and has a crossover with a guy from another Universe completely. Just to ensure we know that Steven has a very short attention span, and isn't very passionate about anything.

And for New Jersey being blown up is just part of the Weekly ideal. They have a incredible sense of rebuilding though. Their city gets blown up DAILY, and they rebuild it.

Maybe Beach City is New Jersey of the Future, after running out of budget for rebuilding. Compared to the Shenanigans Coop pulls off, New Jersey wouldn't even consider the Gems worth an glance.