Does Strike of Perfect Mind's damage multiple on a crit?

[Boci]

Title pretty much says it all. Why wouldn't it? (The book is Tome of Battle if you are unfamiliar)

Well...Page 43: "You do not multiply extra damage from a strike with a successful critical hit. You treat it just as you would extra damage from another special ability, such as sneak attack."

Now extra damage is almost always dice, but the link is never made official, not even in the Rules Compendium. Further more, Strike of Perfect Clarity (page 70 says) says: "it deals an extra 100 points of damage".

Now I don't think it would be a problem to allow the damage to multiple, but I don't think you can make an argument by RAW that it does. What are your thoughts.

[Gwendol]

So, does this mean you are looking at how the damage is presented? Example:
Battle leader's charge (White raven) deals 10 extra damage on a successful hit. Since this is extra damage according to what you propose it should not be multiplied on a crit.
Leading the charge (White Raven) is a stance that grants allies bonus damage up to your initiator level. Would this then be multiplied?

[Boci]

Yes, its appears that by RAW Battle leader's charge would not multiple, because it is a strike and deals extra damage. However, leading the charge would multiple, because it is not a strike (and the rules quote specifies strike) and does bonus damage, not extra damage. That's how I'm reading it.

[Firechanter]

Fixed bonuses multiply on a crit, extra dice do not.
/thread

[Boci]

Fixed bonuses multiply on a crit, extra dice do not.
/thread

In general yes, but it appears that the specific rule on page 43 of Tome of Battle overrides that general rule in regard to strikes.

[Karnith]

Page 43: "You do not multiply extra damage from a strike with a successful critical hit. You treat it just as you would extra damage from another special ability, such as sneak attack."

These two sentences are contradictory. On a critical hit, extra damage is not multiplied if it is expressed in dice ("extra damage dice"), but is multiplied if expressed as a flat bonus. Were strike damage to be treated as extra damage from another special ability, the extra damage from Strike of Perfect Clarity (analogous to the extra damage from a Paladin's Smite Evil ability) would be multiplied on a critical hit, whereas the extra damage from, say, Ancient Mountain Hammer (analogous to the extra damage from a Rogue's Sneak Attack, absent Craven), would not be. The first sentence, as a blanket rule that extra damage isn't multiplied, means that the extra damage from a strike is not treated as you would treat extra damage from another special ability, and hence the statements are at odds.

It's up to the DM to decide which one takes precedence. There is no "correct" RAW answer, because RAW is borked.

Relevant rules from the SRD (with the corresponding PHB text on p. 134):

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

(Emphasis mine)

And from Rules Compendium:

Sometimes damage is multiplied, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage dice and add all modifiers multiple times. Total the results. Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage, such as those dealt by precision damage abilities (see page 42), are never multiplied.

(Emphasis mine)

[Gwendol]

That is my point exactly. Extra damage is generally + dice damage, while bonus damage is static integers.
On the other hand, the rules text in the SRD does not use the extra/bonus damage qualifiers, and speaks instead of damage dice and modifiers. Extra damage dice are not multiplied.

The sentence in ToB is contradictory. It is thus up to the table to decide how to proceed.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, but I see no reason to suddenly start deviating from the general rule that applies to all the remaining 10000 spells, effects, abilities and feats.

[Rubik]

You may want to rename the thread, O.P.

[Boci]

Yeah, but I see no reason to suddenly start deviating from the general rule that applies to all the remaining 10000 spells, effects, abilities and feats.

Fair enough, but that's an opinion, not a thread ender.

As far as solid RAW goes, seems each table will have to decide.

You may want to rename the thread, O.P.

Meh, its more amusing this way. And entirely ToB's fault.

[TuggyNE]

That is my point exactly. Extra damage is generally + dice damage, while bonus damage is static integers.

Generally, yes, but things like Smite in Core are often referred to as "extra damage" (but not, of course, "extra damage dice"). So this rule is highly imperfect.

[Gwendol]

The same can be said of Craven, but outside of ToB the rules makes a distinction based on the extra damage being rolled (-dice) or fixed, and not the semantics.