Dark Souls II: The Thread, AND the Game!

[Hiro Protagonest]

4 ring slots, according to Vaati.

I think it should be cool, as long as things like Havel and FaP are not a thing. Cookie cutter rings, IMO.

...So rings shaped like christmas trees and gingerbread men?

[Wookieetank]

...So rings shaped like christmas trees and gingerbread men?

Don't forget candy canes, reindeer, and stars!

[iyaerP]

You have, if you don't like invasions just play off-line; personally I think that being vulnerable to invasions when you want help is pretty neat, otherwise there is no risk.

Here's the thing. I should not have to suffer through every random prick with a murder-boner just because I want to enjoy a game with my friends. It is terrible game design. Hell, the co-op is limited and restrictively annoying enough as it is without the constant invasions.

[Hazzardevil]

Here's the thing. I should not have to suffer through every random prick with a murder-boner just because I want to enjoy a game with my friends. It is terrible game design. Hell, the co-op is limited and restrictively annoying enough as it is without the constant invasions.

There ought to be something to stop the SL1 people with the best equipment in the game from ganking people on their first playthrough.

[Morty]

4 ring slots, according to Vaati.

I think it should be cool, as long as things like Havel and FaP are not a thing. Cookie cutter rings, IMO.

Agreed. Four ring slots should give characters more leeway, especially if DS2 will also include plot-relevant rings such as the Covenant of Artorias or the covenant rings. And I also hope that there aren't any no-brainers like the RoFaP and Havel's ring.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Here's the thing. I should not have to suffer through every random prick with a murder-boner just because I want to enjoy a game with my friends. It is terrible game design. Hell, the co-op is limited and restrictively annoying enough as it is without the constant invasions.

Dark Souls multiplayer was not intended to be for cooperative play; the game is supposed to be a solitary trek against impossible odds, every path even deadlier than the last. You are supposed to be on your own. That is the heart of the souls series.

[TechnOkami]

a.) I took the liberty to make the "who plays this game on what system" intro thread a little prettier.

b.) I need technical help with Dark Souls for the PC. I'm currently running Dark Souls through steam, and was able to make it functional with the Windows Live-thing (and got my PS3 controller to work as well through a 3rd party program), but I cannot utilize the save features or the online features of the game at all, which saddens me. If I'm not the only one in this boat, I was wondering if someone found a work around to making it work online and enable saves.

[Snowbluff]

Agreed. Four ring slots should give characters more leeway, especially if DS2 will also include plot-relevant rings such as the Covenant of Artorias or the covenant rings. And I also hope that there aren't any no-brainers like the RoFaP and Havel's ring.

Agreed. Covenant Rings were a pain with only 2 slots.

Dark Souls multiplayer was not intended to be for cooperative play; the game is supposed to be a solitary trek against impossible odds, every path even deadlier than the last. You are supposed to be on your own. That is the heart of the souls series.

You could have fooled me. The first game's opening showcases summoning allies, and the second one had covenants centered on cooperative PvE. If they ever intended this to be a solely solo experience, I'd like try whatever it is they were smoking during development.

[Octopusapult]

There ought to be something to stop the SL1 people with the best equipment in the game from ganking people on their first playthrough.

Probably the most annoying thing in the game. Getting invaded at the Undead Church by the guy light rolling in decent armor with a lightning crossbow because he twinked his items down through a series of characters from his SL-10,238,192,843,912

They responded with Attribute Paramenters on Armor in DS2. Some armors will require a minimum Resistance stat to wear (confirmed) and presumably other stats like Endurance or Agility might be some of the parameters which govern the armor you can wear effectively. On top of that Pyromancies will apparently have a governing stat akin to sorceries / miracles. Odds are it'll just be Intellect, but who's to say?

No more players wearing Havels running around the Parish killing you with their ascended pyromancies and lightning crossbows.

Dark Souls multiplayer was not intended to be for cooperative play; the game is supposed to be a solitary trek against impossible odds, every path even deadlier than the last. You are supposed to be on your own. That is the heart of the souls series.

Agreed. Covenant Rings were a pain with only 2 slots.


You could have fooled me. The first game's opening showcases summoning allies, and the second one had covenants centered on cooperative PvE. If they ever intended this to be a solely solo experience, I'd like try whatever it is they were smoking during development.

Dark Souls was intended to be a unique and challenging experience. Not a lonely one, not a multiplayer one, it's whatever you make of it.

You do not sign up for PvP.

You do not sign up for Co-Op.

You sign up for Multiplayer and take what it gives you and like it because you knew what you were getting into.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Being able to transfer items between characters using the bottomless box is not something you can normally do in the game. That means if you do it, you're a hacker.

[Snowbluff]

Dark Souls was intended to be a unique and challenging experience. Not a lonely one, not a multiplayer one, it's whatever you make of it.

You do not sign up for PvP.

You do not sign up for Co-Op.

You sign up for Multiplayer and take what it gives you and like it because you knew what you were getting into.

I don't find anything about this post acceptable. It makes baseless assumptions about our playstyles and our states of mind that the poster can't substantiate. It also assumes we like how the multiplayer turned out and that we can't wage complaints about it. After that, it assumes we like something because we saw it coming.

I, for one, did sign up for Co-Op multiplayer. It's why their are 2 PS3s in my household, and why most of my hours playing multiplayer are spent with my bro. Sure, I bought the game for the experience, but the Co-Op is another whole experience I expect.

It's likely, nay, entirely possible Dusk Souls plays the game for PvP. If I recall, he even plays in a PvP covenant.

[iyaerP]

Dark Souls was intended to be a unique and challenging experience. Not a lonely one, not a multiplayer one, it's whatever you make of it.

You do not sign up for PvP.

You do not sign up for Co-Op.

You sign up for Multiplayer and take what it gives you and like it because you knew what you were getting into.

Or you don't sign up at all, which it increasingly looks like I won't be doing, because every indicator I see is that they are building around pvp to the point where the actual game itself seems to be an aside to the invasions.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Or you don't sign up at all, which it increasingly looks like I won't be doing, because every indicator I see is that they are building around pvp to the point where the actual game itself seems to be an aside to the invasions.

There is an item that stops invasions. Probably a ring.

And how exactly is the game going to be a side thing to the invasions? They're running servers, and they're declaring you can now be invaded any time you're online. But the fact that these things were announced at all means that people will focus on them.

[thracian]

I started playing this game the other night, at the request of Technokami (apparently he likes watching me die or something) and holy cow, this game is unforgiving. I went into it completely blind, and so far have had mixed results (it's fun, but I die a lot).

[McDouggal]

Ooh, I get to be better than you at a game for a little bit!

Get a good shield, explore every sidepath, and if you make a mistake, that's the only one you get this combat.

Also, act like you're link. DESTROY ALL THE BARRELS. Sometimes they hide cool stuff. Basically, if it's not stone, it falls apart if you lean on it, so it's not too hard.

[Octopusapult]

I don't find anything about this post acceptable. It makes baseless assumptions about our playstyles and our states of mind that the poster can't substantiate.It also assumes we like how the multiplayer turned out and that we can't wage complaints about it.

Yeah, here's the thing. "You're going to eat your steak and like it." Is a saying people like my dad would used to say. It means "This is what you have, so appreciate it."

I assumed you liked it, because you're playing it. Maybe you think it's hard, and to that I say there's plenty of other games out there for you to play, and plenty of other threads out there for you to comment in if my posts are unacceptable.

After that, it assumes we like something because we saw it coming.

"DARK SOULS

PREPARE TO DIE"

...I'd say that's fair warning.

I, for one, did sign up for Co-Op multiplayer. It's why their are 2 PS3s in my household, and why most of my hours playing multiplayer are spent with my bro. Sure, I bought the game for the experience, but the Co-Op is another whole experience I expect.

When you bought Dark Souls, you didn't buy a co-op experience is my point. There are co-op experiences in the game just like there are racing experiences in Sleeping Dogs and sexual experiences in Fable. You didn't buy those games for those reasons (with the exception of some creepy people in the Fable example).

With Dark Souls you should know better. It's not a co-op game. It's not a PVP game. It's not Army of Two or Call of Duty. It is Dark Souls. It is unique. It absolutely cannot be held up to the definitions of existing triple-A games the way you seem to want to do. And that point never really seems to make it across to the kind of people who seem to have endless complaints.

The trailer features summoning white phantoms because it does have co-op and it does have PvP. The Left 4 Dead trailer features a Tank enemy in it. The game isn't exclusively about fighting Tanks though is it?

It's likely, nay, entirely possible Dusk Souls plays the game for PvP. If I recall, he even plays in a PvP covenant.

And he can do that all he wants and if there were a progress bar to dictate where from 0-100 % complete you were in Dark Souls, he could invade every hour of every single day and that progress bar would never move an inch because it's not what the game is about.

Ever play minigames in Pokemon Stadium? Or the bar games in Red Dead Redemption? You were doing them for fun, not completing the game. The difference is in those games you could never do those things and get the same experience just running through them. But in Dark Souls if you don't get invaded you've missed out on a massive part of the game design, and a damn good design if you ask me. It isn't without its flaws and exploits, but no game is. And the feedback received about those issues has been taken into account in the sequel. I'm sure if they could have patched it in DS1 it would have been done. From Software has always proven themselves worthy of fan loyalty.

Or you don't sign up at all, which it increasingly looks like I won't be doing, because every indicator I see is that they are building around pvp to the point where the actual game itself seems to be an aside to the invasions.

You can think about invasions in two ways.

1.) Some jerk is coming to ruin my good time and this stupid game is going to let him rageragerage etc.

2.) As a unique PvP experience you're never going to get in any other game.

Your invader is within 10 levels of you or any level below you. Chances are, you're more or less on even ground. His advantage of course is that he's got all the AI in the area to protect him while he heals. Your advantage is that he's only got 3/4ths of his health. (In Dark Souls 2, invaders have their maximum health cut.)

All you can do when you hear that dreadful sound is get to an area you're comfortable fighting in and look forward to the fight. Remember no matter what you lose it's just a game and you'll always have the "I got invaded here once" story later one. And honestly, those are the best stories I have. Not just in Dark Souls, but probably in gaming.

You're going to get invaded. And you're going to like it.

Or rather, This is what you're getting. Appreciate it or make room for the community who does.

[Rodin]

I don't mind the non-twinked invaders too much, or the ones that decide to be honorable. I had one invader come in when my extremely low level character was taking on the first Black Knight. He saw what I was doing, waited for me to finish taking it down, and then bowed and we got on with it. He won handily, but sent a message congratulating me on my victory.

The bad is when you just want Knight Solaire to help take down Ornstein and Smough and get invaded repeatedly while doing so. RAGE!

Of course, Dark Souls also suffers from the same problem all "optional PvP" games have - I think the V-meister said it best (paraphrased):

"How in the infinite planes of existence am I supposed to be capable of beating a wizard Invader who has tailored not only his equipment but his very build specifically to defeat me!?"

[Snowbluff]

There is an item that stops invasions. Probably a ring.

And how exactly is the game going to be a side thing to the invasions? They're running servers, and they're declaring you can now be invaded any time you're online. But the fact that these things were announced at all means that people will focus on them.

This seems like an interesting ring. Like the covenant rings, it alters how you interact with players in the multiplayer. Since we have 4 rings slots for this, it seems we can customize how we choose to play the game, which is exactly what I wanted.

Octopusapult, Jade's post is an example of a good post. It has some helpful, worthwhile information worth discussion, as well as a legitimate discussion. Your post, on the other hand, is telling people to shut up and is otherwise you speaking out of your butt.

"You knew what you were getting into when you signed up for this game! Loading screens are the heart of Dark Souls! If you don't like them, get the hell out of my community of people trying to have fun!"

[Surrealistik]

I personally love the PvP element of DS; it's the only thing that makes the game worthwhile in the end once you've passed through.

That said, I will fully acknowledge the bull**** of being invaded by someone massively overgeared who one shots you while you barely injure him; that's pretty well the _only_ thing that sets me against inescapable mandatory PvP.

The way I'd do it is this: unless a host used an item that waived it as a matchmaking requirement, the SLs for the purposes of matchmaking would also include the soul value of gear, both equipped and unequipped. For the purposes of this calculation, the assessed soul value of gear would cap at roughly the amount of souls needed to make a fully pimped out set, and it would discount anything that was of an adequately low level in order to filter out junk (+5 or less for weapons and shields, +1 or less for armour, unupgradables including rings and the like always have an SL cost roughly equivalent to a fully upgraded item). The number of shards/upgrade components needed for a given item level would also factor into the overall assessed value of an item. No more getting unwillingly invaded at SL1-50 by people with pimped out endgame stuff and fully upgraded flames.

This wouldn't be a perfect system (especially since the weighting would be hard to get exactly right), but it would be better than the one in place.

[Wookieetank]

I started playing this game the other night, at the request of Technokami (apparently he likes watching me die or something) and holy cow, this game is unforgiving. I went into it completely blind, and so far have had mixed results (it's fun, but I die a lot).

I went in having played and beaten Demon's Souls and still died ALL the time. Will say though that every boss beaten and area cleared was an exclamation worthy experience for me, which most games don't provide. Hell I scared my dogs with my victory exuberence on finally beating the game a couple of weeks ago.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I went in having played and beaten Demon's Souls and still died ALL the time. Will say though that every boss beaten and area cleared was an exclamation worthy experience for me, which most games don't provide. Hell I scared my dogs with my victory exuberence on finally beating the game a couple of weeks ago.

You did do the DLC, right?

[Wookieetank]

You did do the DLC, right?

I don't have any of the DLC. Picked up the game when it first came out, and just beat it the other week. Figured I should finish the main game before getting any of the DLC. (And now with Dark Souls 2 just on the horizon might just give it a pass and go for that instead).

[Dusk Eclipse]

The DLC is relatively short and is quite worthwhile in my opionion, so if you have the chance to get it I recommend you do so.

[iyaerP]

OR just don't have mandatory PVP. It isn't like the pvp is some intrinsic part of the game without which everything else will fall apart. It is a side part of the game that part of the community makes their exclusive focus. Them having their fun should not come at the expense of me having my fun. There are a million and one examples of games with good working pvp that doesn't include involuntary ganking.

[Hiro Protagonest]

OR just don't have mandatory PVP. It isn't like the pvp is some intrinsic part of the game without which everything else will fall apart. It is a side part of the game that part of the community makes their exclusive focus. Them having their fun should not come at the expense of me having my fun. There are a million and one examples of games with good working pvp that doesn't include involuntary ganking.

Like I said, there are ways to stop getting invaded (all my information is secondhand from Vaati, but he's pretty reliable). I don't know any specifics, but it'll probably be a ring.

In regular Dark Souls, you just play hollow, and if you need summons, tell your computer to stop being connected to your network and then turn human, and summon NPCs.

[Octopusapult]

Octopusapult, Jade's post is an example of a good post. It has some helpful, worthwhile information worth discussion, as well as a legitimate discussion. Your post, on the other hand, is telling people to shut up and is otherwise you speaking out of your butt.

"You knew what you were getting into when you signed up for this game! Loading screens are the heart of Dark Souls! If you don't like them, get the hell out of my community of people trying to have fun!"

Yeah because crying about a hard game that you know is hard and using blue text to be a jerk is helpful.

I know, sarcasm in normal black text and absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic. How will you ever survive?

If you hate Dark Souls so much, don't play it. End of discussion.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah because crying about a hard game that you know is hard and using blue text to be a jerk is helpful.

I was pointing out what a helpful post would look like, and what displeased me about your post.

If you hate Dark Souls so much, don't play it. End of discussion.

If you want to end discussion, you probably shouldn't be posting in a forum. An online forum is a place where people do nothing but discuss things. No game is perfect or immune to criticism, so people complaining about certain elements of the game is normal. Having a complaint about a game doesn't mean you hate it, either.

[Rodin]

I went in having played and beaten Demon's Souls and still died ALL the time. Will say though that every boss beaten and area cleared was an exclamation worthy experience for me, which most games don't provide. Hell I scared my dogs with my victory exuberence on finally beating the game a couple of weeks ago.

I played Dark Souls first, and then having heard that Demon's Souls is even harder went into that game expecting to get my butt handed to me.

And I did, but no moreso than in Dark Souls. The actual gameplay difficulty is pretty similar. The difference was pretty much entirely contained in two parts -

1) Bonfires are far more frequent in Dark Souls. There is so much less re-treading ground it isn't even funny.

2) The "lose 50% of HP upon death" business. A punishment for dying that makes you die even more often on an already difficult section? Blech.

I recall that I stopped playing after doing a 3rd 10-15 minute long corpse run through the mines, only to die to the boss when my camera caught on a bit of scenery (something else they improved on massively, although it could still do with a bit of work) and my view was plunged into darkness right as the Taurus-demon-predecessor came smashing down on top of me. Ragequit time.

Dark Souls overall did a great job of stripping out the un-fun elements of Demon's Souls. I'm hoping that Dark Souls 2 follows a similar path. As long as the invaders don't get out of hand, I'm hopeful.

[Hiro Protagonest]

2) The "lose 50% of HP upon death" business. A punishment for dying that makes you die even more often on an already difficult section? Blech.

As someone who likes death penalties that aren't just a slap on the wrist, I disagree. There was also that ring that increased your soulform HP, and that is generally considered a no-brainer to equip.

Dark Souls 2 will have an in-between penalty, in that you lose like, 10% of your max HP each death, to a total of 50%, but you only get the penalty if you die while hollowed and it's reset if you turn human.

[iyaerP]

Like I said, there are ways to stop getting invaded (all my information is secondhand from Vaati, but he's pretty reliable). I don't know any specifics, but it'll probably be a ring.

In regular Dark Souls, you just play hollow, and if you need summons, tell your computer to stop being connected to your network and then turn human, and summon NPCs.

My issue is that I cannot play with my friends without being invaded. It is a binary function of retardation. Even with both of us in the way of the white, the covenant that is supposed to have the LOWEST invasion chance, we get invaded about once every 10 minutes. I had one instance where the invasion happened literally within seconds of going human to try and summon one another at the campfire nearest the boss. I was being attacked before I could even get out of the campfire menu.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM I HAVE HERE. I don't care about your stupid pvp. I don't care about dueling. I don't want to get killed in one shot from someone who lives, breathes, and sleeps this game and nothing else. I just want to fight the big monsters with a friend.