OOTS #945 - The Discussion Thread

[Porthos]

I had to register to ask this question.

Did anyone else notice the top half of Orion on the horizon over the rift ocean? The angle of the belt, the two upper corner stars (or possibly lower). Or am I just channeling Daniel Jackson here.

SmG

The Truth is.......Out of fashion.

RiftWorld is NOT Earth, if that's what you're asking. Rich has already gone on record to state that.

The Dark One wasn't the one to create the goblins to be XP fodder.

To be fair, we don't know if that's actually true or not.

The goblins claim it is. But that's not the same thing.

[Saturosian]

Wha...

Huh. It's real, and it can still do stuff through the rifts. Nicely played, making us question the snarl story.

So...does it maybe need a human(oid) host, or channel, to get into our world? Like a lightning rod?

Interesting.

[SlashDash]

Well, I knew there was a reason everyone kept talking about investigating that particular rift. Thoguh I was thinking that the party would be the one investigating.


One thing though, why did Blackwing saw the planet from outer space and and this rift seems to be inside the planet? Is the planet really small?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

People keep saying "So that's what Laurin's favour was".

But when I read this strip, I read "So I got Tarquin to give me control of this part of the desert in exchange of teleporting him back to his palace".

Completely new favours, nothing to do with the ones from before.

What I read in that comment is that Laurin chose then to ask Tarquin because she knew he probably wouldn't refuse her if she "sweetened the deal" by offer him a lift back to his city.

After all, for all she knows, he might consider her favor voided since she fled the battle. By asking him when he is weakened, she has a better chance of her favor being accepted.

[SaintRidley]

Laurin may have just mind-melded with the Snarl.

[Porthos]

People keep saying "So that's what Laurin's favour was".

But when I read this strip, I read "So I got Tarquin to give me control of this part of the desert in exchange of teleporting him back to his palace".

Completely new favours, nothing to do with the ones from before.

Not at all. She said she wanted this from the very beginning. She just agreed to port him back before telling him what the favor was.

IMO, mostly so Tarquin wouldn't be in a position to really object.

Opps got my order slightly wrong. That's what I get for not double checking.

I have to agree with the later poster who said asking for her favor before taking Tarquin and his group home was additional leverage to make sure that Tarquin followed through with his end of the bargin.

No, I'd say that the favors are all cleared up now.

Not that Laurin is in any position to really haggle about things right now.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Solara]

In this world of magic, Laurin's original plan was just so refreshingly practical. What's more useful in a desert than a source of water?

Too bad for the world she accidentally woke up Cthulhu in the process though...

[Particle_Man]

For the record, the new effect on the Snarl tendrils (if that's what they are) is gorgeous. I am continually amazed by what can be done with stick figures.

Also, the non-scribble Snarl tendrils look great.

Blimey! Nice visualisation of the crayonstuff.

So pretty . . .

Just a wild thought. What if the planet inside the Rift was the original dimension the Snarl undid and that, somehow, put itself together again? Or that the Snarl itself, slowly experimenting, is putting together again?

I think the Snarl created a dead world, because that would be what existed before the Gods started disagreeing about the nature of the life forms that were to be on it. By killing everything, the source of all disagreements will be gone. The Snarl wants only peace.

People keep saying "So that's what Laurin's favour was".

But when I read this strip, I read "So I got Tarquin to give me control of this part of the desert in exchange of teleporting him back to his palace".

Completely new favours, nothing to do with the ones from before.

I read it is Laurin basically saying "This is my favour. Give it to me now or you can walk home, wounded man." They may be teammates but they are willing to play hardball.

[Jay R]

So out of idle curiosity ...

... why did we continue to believe Xykon was the BBEG, even while watching the plot slowly, one by one, blow up the locks on the prison holding a god-killing abomination?

[Gift Jeraff]

Not at all. She said she wanted this from the very beginning. She just agreed to port him back before telling him what the favor was.

IMO, mostly so Tarquin wouldn't be in a position to really object.

Porting armies back and forth doesn't seem to be 'favorworthy'.

Also, Miron says he's surprised Tarquin agreed to Laurin's favour. This suggests that he thinks that they failed to do anything substantial against the OOTS in the first place that would garner a favour.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I always thought that the Snarl was the huge evil; and Xykon was the actual evil trying to bring about the Huge Evil.

[Matt620]

When it all happened, Miron pulled Laurin out of the way of the...whatever the purple things are.

I like him even more. He's a bad guy, but they're friends. I sure hope this thing doesn't turn Laurin crazy and she kills him.

[Deliverance]

Hah. "Of course" Team Tarquin has a finders keepers rule.

[Clistenes]

The best part? Laurin now knows how big the stakes are. And she will tell Tarquin. She will tell him how insignificant he is in the grand scheme of things, and how little a part he plays.

[orrion]

People keep saying "So that's what Laurin's favour was".

But when I read this strip, I read "So I got Tarquin to give me control of this part of the desert in exchange of teleporting him back to his palace".

Completely new favours, nothing to do with the ones from before.

You should get "I got Tarquin to agree to honor my favor before I teleported him back to his palace."

If Laurin were in the habit of getting favors for mere single instance teleports like that then she would have gotten a massive one for porting Tarquin's army to the rift in the first place. Yet there's been zero reference to a favor like that.

The timeline meshes as well. Laurin said she viewed the portal right before the battle started. When she did ask for her favor? Right before the battle started.

[zimmerwald1915]

Laurin may have just mind-melded with the Snarl.

Does that make the Snarl V'Ger? That's a thought.

What a strip.

[Asteroid Bomb]

The idea of the Snarl not existing always bugged me. If it didn't, then what killed Soon's wife, Lirian's animals that went missing, and that random goblin in Start of Darkness that made Lirian's Rift get the Dark One's attention? Looks like it's still part of the mystery.

[Edric O]

So out of idle curiosity ...

... why did we continue to believe Xykon was the BBEG, even while watching the plot slowly, one by one, blow up the locks on the prison holding a god-killing abomination?

Because it was made very clear that there's no way the Order could possibly even do so much as slightly inconveniencing the god-killing abomination?

The Snarl is simply too powerful to be the BBEG. Unless the Order suddenly acquires god-like powers or the Snarl is far weaker than we were told, the only way to win against it is not to fight at all (i.e. keep it imprisoned).

[Porthos]

The Snarl is simply too powerful to be the BBEG. Unless the Order suddenly acquires god-like powers or the Snarl is far weaker than we were told, the only way to win against it is not to fight at all (i.e. keep it imprisoned).

Parphrasing: "Gods might be more vulnerable to the Snarl than mortals".

Just a reminder.

Not that I disagree that Team OotS is quite tall enough to ride that ride, yet.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

My theory is that the world in the snarl is the first world. The one that Zeus and the Eastern Gods helped make. When the Snarl consumes souls, it brings them to that world. That world is where Mijung is, and where Hestia and gentle Demeter are. And the chicken. Poor chicken.

[homeslice]

Curse you Rich! Curse you!

Everything was wrapping up so nicely and then you have to draw this amazing comic that creates so many more questions.

We probably won't know what exactly happened here until the next book either.

[Cikomyr]

Why are they Gates?

Why did the original party designed GATES, and not.. shall I say, plugs? Or shutters?

Why did they created GATES, which the word actually implies it's meant to be a passageway between places?

[Shale]

Parphrasing: "Gods might be more vulnerable to the Snarl than mortals".

Just a reminder.

Mortals of a similar level. Which would be...40, or 60? I forget which.

[mindsword]

At least a few others already mentioned this, but I feel its worth repeating.

When i first saw Laurin's eyes change, I thought "It has chosen an avatar."

With any luck, I'm wrong and this is just a visual way of showing Laurin's mind telepathically talking with it. But if not, then Laurin may have become a puppet of the Snarl.

Also, I agree that it seems like interaction with the Rift can call the Snarl out. Its quite passive until it gets poked. Fits with what we know too. The Gods beat it by working around it and hiding. It didn't seek them out after killing Zeus and his pals.

Of course, it was also passive throughout all of existence after that even though the rifts were open. Opening all the Rifts does not guarantee that it will get free. It only means the Gods are likely to destroy everything to make sure it won't. As such, while Redcloak's plan will keep the Rift intact, I dislike any plan that Leaves the Gods in a situation where they either get killed, give in to another God's demands to alter their world, or destroy everything and fix it properly this time.

[zimmerwald1915]

Mortals of a similar level. Which would be...40, or 60? I forget which.

I don't have Deities and Demigods anymore (not that is particularly valuable when talking about OOTS gods), but I do have Elder Evils, and the creature in that book with the most HD is Atropus, whose plan involves absorbing the life force of the gods it created, with 66.

[orrion]

Why are they Gates?

Why did the original party designed GATES, and not.. shall I say, plugs? Or shutters?

Why did they created GATES, which the word actually implies it's meant to be a passageway between places?

Another meaning for a gate is a "barrier used to close an opening," and that fits exactly what the Scribble did. They used barriers to close the rifts.

[Nosferatu]

Man, and for a second there I thought I understood what was going on...

[Porthos]

Why are they Gates?

Why did the original party designed GATES, and not.. shall I say, plugs? Or shutters?

Why did they created GATES, which the word actually implies it's meant to be a passageway between places?

Another meaning for a gate is a "barrier used to close an opening," and that fits exactly what the Scribble did. They used barriers to close the rifts.

For a more detailed explanation:

The gem reinforces the Gate; the gem is NOT the Gate, and the Gate is not the seal, and the seal is not the rift. The gem is the deadbolt, not the lock, or the door, or the doorway. The "door" is a complex spell that is not actually visible but is what Dorukan and Lirian are casting in the first panel of the second page of #276. The "lock" is the Gate, a tiny magical object that later had a throne crafted around it; it's about the size of a raisin in the case of Azure City. The "doorway" is the rift itself, and it is not really inside the gemstone, it's just that the gem (and Gate) are translucent and we can see through it (because it's a visual medium and it made it easier to understand). The gemstone is an enchanted object that further seals and reinforces the Gate; thus, the "deadbolt."

When Soon hands over the Sapphire to Shojo's father, he is essentially giving the last piece of the Gate's security system over so that it might be put into place. Think of the Sapphire as an additional seal that Soon and his followers came up with. The Sapphire does not NEED to be in the same place as the Gate in order to seal it, because it's magic, but moving it around is risky. There's a chance that it will just fail and the Gate will swing open. Before the panel shown, Soon likely kept it somewhere else safe, but chose as he was dying to consolidate the protections (because that's where he was going to be hanging out as a ghost-martyr). I guess the magic might have been stronger being in the same spot as the Gate, too.

So, no, the Gate or the rift could not have been physically moved. The Sapphire could be moved, and Xykon would have been obligated to track it down and undo its magic before he could perform his ritual, but there would be a risk in doing so, and it wouldn't really have stopped Xykon from sieging the city at that point (because he still would have needed the immovable Gate).

The use of Redcloak's magic ritual to shift the Gate into another plane is entirely unrelated, and in fact can only shift a Gate to another plane—not to another place in THIS plane. Think of it like moving a Bag of Holding from the Prime to an Outer Plane: you've moved the entranceway to an extradimensional space, but opening it still leads to the same interior.

Hopefully, that clears the issue up.

The Index is a VERY helpful tool at times.

[Shale]

At least a few others already mentioned this, but I feel its worth repeating.

When i first saw Laurin's eyes change, I thought "It has chosen an avatar."

With any luck, I'm wrong and this is just a visual way of showing Laurin's mind telepathically talking with it. But if not, then Laurin may have become a puppet of the Snarl.

Bear in mind that Blackwing's eyes did something similar when he looked deep into the Rift (see the second-to-last panel) and he doesn't seem to have been turned into a feathery Snarlvatar.