Goblins XIV: Clerical Omission.

[Bird]

Now that I think about it, though, I am kind of disturbed that I'm amused by the products of someone's misery

If it makes you feel any better, "the products of someone's misery" describes 50% of art.

[TheSummoner]

The full blog at the time he posted was apparently 37 pages. I suspect that when it is finished, he intends to use it as a weapon against Psimax.

Well, that's one good reason for why it's taken to long. Though I have to wonder, how much of those 37 pages dealt with the actual issue and how many were about Joss Whedon? Maybe Joss Whedon was responsible for his breakdown...

[John Campbell]

Now that I think about it, though, I am kind of disturbed that I'm amused by the products of someone's misery

Just embrace the schadenfreude.

[Neoriceisgood]

Believe me, it could have been much worse. Thunt posted a larger portion of the blog on his forums a few days ago to ask fans for advice on whether he should go public with it. Without going into too much detail, not only would it have reignited some of his old social media battles (which apparently played a big role in his recent breakdown); it also would have likely gotten him embroiled in an entirely new one in a manner reminiscent of the rape survivor incident, except in some ways worse because (a) he really has no excuse for not knowing by now that using his blog as a platform to publicly antagonize someone is a bad idea even if he prefaces it by asking his fans not to harass her, and (b) he would be the clear instigator in this case, as the only reason he brought her up was in reference to some sort of weird cognitive dissonance about PTSD, not because she'd said anything about Goblins.

Seriously, all I could think when reading it was Can we, like, hire somebody to just stand over Thunt with a rolled-up newspaper, ready to deal out a good thwacking whenever he's about to do something that will only make things worse? Is that a thing?

Fortunately, most of the people in those threads gave sound advice, and he has since deleted them. (Though they were already reposted on other websites by that point because, well, this is the Internet; of course they were.)

Oh right, Thunt's social media battles. I didn't realise those were heavily tied to this breakdown, I haven't seen him getting in any battles recently.

[Vinyadan]

Now that I think about it, though, I am kind of disturbed that I'm amused by the products of someone's misery

Well, life's the only amusing thing we've got, and it's also the most miserable.

I am sorry for how the situation with THunt is developing. I am especially sorry that so much of it is getting place on the Net. I know that it is his style to have a very close relationship with fans and that they likely were really worried at his absence, but I still have to think that handling private matters, especially if bound with personal health, on forums, is no example to follow.

[BannedInSchool]

Seriously, all I could think when reading it was Can we, like, hire somebody to just stand over Thunt with a rolled-up newspaper, ready to deal out a good thwacking whenever he's about to do something that will only make things worse? Is that a thing?

Oh right, Thunt's social media battles. I didn't realise those were heavily tied to this breakdown, I haven't seen him getting in any battles recently.

It's like, "Hey, I think I'll learn to juggle. Hand me those battle-edge swords," or "I know my tongue will stick to metal under freezing, but what else can I get to stick?", but with posting stuff that's going to get negative reactions from the Internet. And with some fraction of the Internet generating a continual string of hate at him, that's gotta make the world a weird and stressful place.

[sum1won]

Believe me, it could have been much worse. Thunt posted a larger portion of the blog on his forums a few days ago to ask fans for advice on whether he should go public with it. Without going into too much detail, not only would it have reignited some of his old social media battles (which apparently played a big role in his recent breakdown); it also would have likely gotten him embroiled in an entirely new one in a manner reminiscent of the rape survivor incident, except in some ways worse because (a) he really has no excuse for not knowing by now that using his blog as a platform to publicly antagonize someone is a bad idea even if he prefaces it by asking his fans not to harass her, and (b) he would be the clear instigator in this case, as the only reason he brought her up was in reference to some sort of weird cognitive dissonance about PTSD, not because she'd said anything about Goblins.

Seriously, all I could think when reading it was Can we, like, hire somebody to just stand over Thunt with a rolled-up newspaper, ready to deal out a good thwacking whenever he's about to do something that will only make things worse? Is that a thing?

Fortunately, most of the people in those threads gave sound advice, and he has since deleted them. (Though they were already reposted on other websites by that point because, well, this is the Internet; of course they were.)

The full blog at the time he posted was apparently 37 pages. I suspect that when it is finished, he intends to use it as a weapon against Psimax.

Holy moly. I think I know who he is talking about, and that makes me very suspicious of where Thunt spends his free time.

[Typewriter]

Anyone who has watched Tarol draw knows that he goes on tangents every now and then. He had a long discussion about noses that was hilarious. This is a perfect example of that. This, to me, says that he wrote his blog as a strem-of-consciousness with the intent of removing everything that wasn't related to the issue. And you know what? I think it was a good idea. Writing with too many specific restrictions lead to pressure and to not writing anything at all. Going "whatever, I'll write down everything, anything, and then edit it into something that makes sense later" is a much better approach, less likely to lead to a blank page.

I'm sure he only shared this because he figured people might get a kick out of it.

I initially referred to the post as funny but insane and I think that was a good way to describe it. Sure it's entertaining, but as a glimpse into his current mindset it's a bit... off. That being said I'm more 'bothered' by the fact that he posted anything at all - it has sounded this entire time like what he needs is time away from the computer (and psychological help) so seeing him post anything is just... no, take a break - see a doctor.

[Feddlefew]

Holy moly. I think I know who he is talking about, and that makes me very suspicious of where Thunt spends his free time.

If you mean who I think you mean, then he might have been trying to do some internet research on his current mental issues and stumbled across that clusterfluke. He's also active on twitter and strikes me as the kind of person who makes judgements without bothering to look for information.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the original post(s), so Thunt could have metaphorically been wearing his glutes as festive headgear.

[sum1won]

If you mean who I think you mean, then he might have been trying to do some internet research on his current mental issues and stumbled across that clusterfluke. He's also active on twitter and strikes me as the kind of person who makes judgements without bothering to look for information.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the original post(s), so Thunt could have metaphorically been wearing his glutes as festive headgear.

The main reason I'm suspicious is he allegedly used to self-describe as an MRA, supposedly without understanding what that meant. He got into an educational argument on twitter over it a year or so ago, and removed that term from his profile; he also has that "gender equality" blog post from 6 months ago where he sees feminism and MRA as the same. (and agrees and disagrees with a some of the lit. from both camps, apparently).

but yeah, I haven't seen the original blog post either.

[T-O-E]

We should have probably predicted this since he wrote that absurd comic about how being a woman is like having burger-hands.

[Reverent-One]

We should have probably predicted this since he wrote that absurd comic about how being a woman is like having burger-hands.

What...?

*Goes to find this comic*

Oh, that's actually a decent parallel, regardless of the absurdity of the concept.

[BannedInSchool]

Oh, that's actually a decent parallel, regardless of the absurdity of the concept.

Unless you know THunt as that guy who writes the comic celebrating rape (ETA: which it doesn't), and in that case he's at it again and needs more hate.

[Dragonus45]

Do you know what website it was copied over too? I would like to read it to get an idea of whats really going on in his head.

The main reason I'm suspicious is he allegedly used to self-describe as an MRA, supposedly without understanding what that meant. He got into an educational argument on twitter over it a year or so ago, and removed that term from his profile; he also has that "gender equality" blog post from 6 months ago where he sees feminism and MRA as the same. (and agrees and disagrees with a some of the lit. from both camps, apparently).

but yeah, I haven't seen the original blog post either.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with him identifying as an MRA, especially not after what he describes happened with his ex and their kids, but yea if he is referring to what it appears he may have been referring to that could end badly for everyone and happily for no one.

[Janus]

Do you know what website it was copied over too? I would like to read it to get an idea of whats really going on in his head.

http://pastebin.com/BKiaLyYe
Looks like it's also on the Bad Webcomics Wiki forum and 4chan. The provided link is just the post by itself.

[T-O-E]

Unless you know THunt as that guy who writes the comic celebrating rape (ETA: which it doesn't), and in that case he's at it again and needs more hate.

The problem wasn't that he celebrated rape. It's that the most important woman in the strip was raped as part of her backstory and that some consider his treatment of the character to be poorly done. No one thinks he supports rape and Goblinslayer cartoonishly talking about how much of an evil torturing rapist he is should have given that up.

It's just kind of annoying to see this so often in media, especially when it's done incompetently. I understand that Thunt was trying to deal with an issue that affected him deeply but I don't think it was handled well.

[Draconi Redfir]

after reading that pastebin, all i've got to say is that i seriously want to give Thunt a hug for putting up with all of that bullship right now.

Oh! And my veiw of certain "equal rights" groups as a whole has probably gone down a few thousand levels as a result. This is just embarassing.

[Lizard Lord]

No one thinks he supports rape.

According to the blog rough draft some people do think just that.

[Seerow]

I think the "part 2" section from pastebin being posted would have been enough on its own. No long rant about Twitter PTSD and how lame it. No rant about firefly and who they're like. Just an explanation of what had been going on and caused him to have a sudden breakdown. I think that section pretty neatly shows the starting point and the death spiral that followed.

[Feddlefew]

http://pastebin.com/BKiaLyYe
Looks like it's also on the Bad Webcomics Wiki forum and 4chan. The provided link is just the post by itself.

Ugh. Couldn't even get to past the IED part.

I'm... Just going to go curl up into a ball for a few minutes and hyperventilate for a few minutes.

[Lissou]

The problem wasn't that he celebrated rape. It's that the most important woman in the strip was raped as part of her backstory and that some consider his treatment of the character to be poorly done. No one thinks he supports rape and Goblinslayer cartoonishly talking about how much of an evil torturing rapist he is should have given that up.

It's just kind of annoying to see this so often in media, especially when it's done incompetently. I understand that Thunt was trying to deal with an issue that affected him deeply but I don't think it was handled well.

Wait, people think Kin is the most important female character? Doesn't she first appear in Book 3 or something? Mind you, I guess Fox doesn't appear that much sooner but I always thought of her as a more "main" character.
Either way, I actually thought he dealt with it really well. Most times it's in a story people feel the need to have tons of un-needed details. In this instance, the details were implied until Goblinslayer bragged about it, and none of it was actually shown. Of course, he was also dealt with. And the alt Kins allowed the story to show various different points of views and ways to react to the same kind of traumatic even, which I felt represented very well how different people build their lives back in different ways.

It seemed to mostly get criticised by people who didn't react and rebuild in the same way the "main" Kin did, and who pretty much acted like the other Kins did (which to me goes to show once again how accurate Thunt was).

[Psychonaut]

Unless you know THunt as that guy who writes the comic celebrating rape (ETA: which it doesn't), and in that case he's at it again and needs more hate.

The problem wasn't that he celebrated rape. It's that the most important woman in the strip was raped as part of her backstory and that some consider his treatment of the character to be poorly done. No one thinks he supports rape and Goblinslayer cartoonishly talking about how much of an evil torturing rapist he is should have given that up.

It's just kind of annoying to see this so often in media, especially when it's done incompetently. I understand that Thunt was trying to deal with an issue that affected him deeply but I don't think it was handled well.

I agree, but I think that BIS was referring to the fact that there are some people out there who have thought of Thunt that way ever since the whole ComicsMix thing, and no amount of evidence can change their minds at this point. (See also the multiple failed attempts to ingratiate himself to them as mentioned in the second part of the pastebin, which in turn seems to have played a major role in his downward spiral.)

I think the "part 2" section from pastebin being posted would have been enough on its own. No long rant about Twitter PTSD and how lame it. No rant about firefly and who they're like. Just an explanation of what had been going on and caused him to have a sudden breakdown. I think that section pretty neatly shows the starting point and the death spiral that followed.

Even better IMO would be to just nix the blog and say "I had a breakdown" without going into much detail about it publicly. Putting it all out there just gives the bloggers/tumblrites another avenue with which to attack him and has a good chance of pulling him back into the exact sort of arguments that led to this in the first place, and writing the blog with public consumption in mind may actually be hindering his ability to move on.

I understand feeling the need to explain yourself when you feel that you've let people down or been judged unfairly; I really do. I have a lot of the same perfectionist/self-critical/socially sensitive tendencies that Thunt seems to possess, and I've struggled with it for years. But sometimes - most of the time - the best option you can take is to just let it go, accept that you can't please everyone, and move on with your life rather than wallowing in guilt, trying to explain yourself, or dwelling on what others think of you - especially when dealing with people who have time and again demonstrated that there's nothing you can do to budge them from their preconceived notions of you.

And even if it doesn't pull him back into another fruitless, self-destructive argument, spending two months writing and fine-tuning a 37-page blog of this sort is simply not healthy. If he was just trying to get it out of his system and didn't intend to ever show it to anybody, that would be one thing. But he apparently thought it was done nearly a month ago and has taken this long to even disclose a mere portion of it on his own forums. I suspect that he's been going over it again and again, obsessing over every word and how people will react, all while pressure slowly mounts due to the notion that the longer he takes, the higher people's expectations will be (and maybe add a dash of sunk cost fallacy as well) - that, far from alleviating his anxiety/guilt/whatever, the blog is exacerbating them by causing him to dwell on things even more than he would do otherwise. If so, he really needs to stop and ask himself "Is this worth it? Will it really help?"

[BannedInSchool]

I agree, but I think that BIS was referring to the fact that there are some people out there who have thought of Thunt that way ever since the whole ComicsMix thing, and no amount of evidence can change their minds at this point.

Yeah, there's very little that THunt could do that can't be interpreted to reinforce his perceived status as subhuman monster.

Even better IMO would be to just nix the blog and say "I had a breakdown" without going into much detail about it publicly.

And, whoops, so much for that now. The Internet: one big pee-filled swimming pool.
(Actually filled with other bodily fluids too but that's not a play on the saying about getting pee out of swimming pools.)

I'm now wondering if any fallout from the redistributed draft blog will result in the end of the comic.

[Douglas]

Wow. After reading all that, I'm left feeling that the people referenced would fit quite handily alongside the conspiracy theorist in xkcd 258. I'm also wondering if their behavior might possibly be legally categorized as hate speech, libel/slander, or some other category with potential legal consequences.

[iponly]

They're just internet trolls like every other internet troll. You'd have no more luck going after that type legally then you would going after the crowd that sends women in the gaming community personalized rape & murder threats. Also for reference, consider the U.S. Government versus Anonymous.

It's the internet, and Thunt clearly can't live with it. He should get someone else to handle his social media stuff for him (perhaps the sane and enduring wife?), get help for the damage already done to his silly head, and get back to living his life, which I hope will involve drawing more comics. I have a bet with myself re: when and how the Kin/Minmax plot gets resolved and I would like to know if I've won or lost sometime in the next decade or so.

[Hazuki]

It seemed to mostly get criticised by people who didn't react and rebuild in the same way the "main" Kin did, and who pretty much acted like the other Kins did (which to me goes to show once again how accurate Thunt was).

Maybe it's just me, but disregarding my opinion just because I've been through that event feels very disrespectful and arbitrary. I'd rather my opinions on how Kin was handled, if I choose to make them known, were considered as fairly as anyone else's.

[Douglas]

They're just internet trolls like every other internet troll. You'd have no more luck going after that type legally then you would going after the crowd that sends women in the gaming community personalized rape & murder threats. Also for reference, consider the U.S. Government versus Anonymous.

Assault, legally speaking, is all about threats - actually carrying out said threats is battery - and it is legally a crime. It might be stretching the legal definition a bit, but I would not be surprised if a lawyer could successfully argue it in court. Getting the identities of who to take to court is another matter, and whether it would be a good idea in the first place is quite another.

It's the internet, and Thunt clearly can't live with it. He should get someone else to handle his social media stuff for him (perhaps the sane and enduring wife?), get help for the damage already done to his silly head, and get back to living his life, which I hope will involve drawing more comics. I have a bet with myself re: when and how the Kin/Minmax plot gets resolved and I would like to know if I've won or lost sometime in the next decade or so.

Getting someone else to act as a filter between him and the Internet, possibly in both directions, strikes me as a great idea.

Maybe it's just me, but disregarding my opinion just because I've been through that event feels very disrespectful and arbitrary. I'd rather my opinions on how Kin was handled, if I choose to make them known, were considered as fairly as anyone else's.

That didn't look to me like disregarding your, or anyone's, opinions. It was merely a remark on an unfortunate statistical trend, where many people who experienced that unfortunate event and reacted differently from Kin assumed that how they reacted is the only way people in that situation react, and that people complaining about it because of that are more common than people complaining from other backgrounds.

[Hazuki]

That didn't look to me like disregarding your, or anyone's, opinions. It was merely a remark on an unfortunate statistical trend, where many people who experienced that unfortunate event and reacted differently from Kin assumed that how they reacted is the only way people in that situation react, and that people complaining about it because of that are more common than people complaining from other backgrounds.

It seemed to me like it was disregarding them by saying "They only criticize it because it's different from what they know", which is insulting to their intelligence and ability to see things from an objective point of view. In addition to implying that they are all represented adequately by a writer who they don't approve of, at least in that particular area.

Granted, I've not seen many victims comment on it, but I know that my issues with how the situation was handled aren't because they're different from my experiences. And I don't appreciate being grouped up with those whose issues are.

[strategy]

I think the "part 2" section from pastebin being posted would have been enough on its own. No long rant about Twitter PTSD and how lame it. No rant about firefly and who they're like. Just an explanation of what had been going on and caused him to have a sudden breakdown. I think that section pretty neatly shows the starting point and the death spiral that followed.

I would disagree.

Sure, it sort of explains why he thinks he's had a breakdown. And read with a reasonable understanding of the context, and some sympathy for thunt, it's not too bad. But you know, read neutrally (or with internet fan glasses on), this is what part 2 says:
1) A bunch of bad people (thunt won't mention names but - hey - twitter), wrote some bad things about thunt leading to his breakdown.
2) Oh, by the way the breakdown is totally not their fault, even though they are bad people.

There are fans who will (or most likely - already have) read that, who will take from that encouragement to instigate exactly the kind of activity that contributed to his breakdown. And the people whom he refers to as liars and worse? I'm sure that there is more than enough blame to go around in that history (though anytime people write "oh I was totally not snarky or insulting" that's a huge red light to me), but how could they read this and not be offended? It's good that people in the community stopped him from posting that on his blog, but it's still a fail of Internet 101 that he posted it at all.

His wife really, really needs to ban him from reading or writing anything on the internet until he has got his head on right.

[Hyena]

Wait, people think Kin is the most important female character? Doesn't she first appear in Book 3 or something? Mind you, I guess Fox doesn't appear that much sooner but I always thought of her as a more "main" character.

Fox might have appeared earlier, but Kin have had much more screen time.