Top 10 Worst PrCs

[A Tad Insane]

Oh dear lawdy! Don't reminde me about the acolyte of the skin! "Hey, I should literally attach a super powerful demon to my skin that gives me the incredible power of half caster progression!" it's just so bad, yet the fluff is so freaking metal I want to flay the skin of who ever gave it half progression!

[The Viscount]

How could I forget Solar Channeler. Now that's a terrible class. It turns you into a solar if by solar you mean "guy with a sword who can fly." It makes you give up all your class features (including casting, if any), in exchange for 3 attacks at middlingly high bonuses with normal damage. I cannot think of a class that can enter this and would not be better served just using their own spells or class features.

[Karnith]

IF a feat no longer exists, then according to the 3.5 rules, the requirement is removed also.

It's not that the feat no longer exists, it's that it's no longer a regional feat for Rashemen. The PrC therefore requires you to be able to select regional feats for two separate regions, which isn't possible (to the best of my knowledge) in 3.5.

Regardless, Runescarred Berserker has been disqualified because it's problem is a dysfunction, not actual bad class design, so the issue is kinda moot.

[Vertharrad]

When I said that it's impossible to qualify for, I meant it literally; I am not aware of a RAW way to meet the prereqs.

Spoiler: "Explanation

Show

The class requires a regional feat not available to characters from Rashemen, and requires that the character be able to select regional feats from Rashemen. Per the 3.5 update to regional feats, this is no longer possible.

In 3.0, Survivor (a pre-req for Runescarred Berserker) was a regional feat for Rashemen, which is why it worked then for characters from Rashemen. Alternately, also using 3.0 rules for regional feats, any character could have put 2 ranks in the appropriate Knowledge (Local) skill to be able to select feats from a given region, and hence qualified for that part of Runescarred Berserker. But the 3.5 update made rules regarding regional feats go from silly to sillier, so neither of those work anymore, and you can't get into the class now as-written.

Be from Rashemen...

[Karnith]

Be from Rashemen...

You need to be able to select a regional feat from Rashemen, and also possess a regional feat not available to characters from Rashemen. Since a character can only have one region to select regional feats from in 3.5 (whereas in 3.0 you could use Knowledge (Local) to qualify for more than one), it is no longer possible to meet the requirements. It worked in 3.0 because Survivor was a Rashemen regional feat, but Survivor stopped being a Rashemen regional feat in 3.5.

[NoACWarrior]

You need to be able to select a regional feat from Rashemen, and possess a regional feat not available to characters from Rashemen. Since a character can only have one region to select regional feats from in 3.5 (whereas in 3.0 you could use Knowledge (Local) to qualify for more than one), it is no longer possible to meet the requirements.

Unless you lived in Rashemen and went to grammar school in another place. Thereby you could register to vote in both districts so long as the city registrar wasn't checking. Heck you now are a citizen of both regions now and can select a regional feat for each.


But all kidding aside, is it possible to take one of those two body races (I forgot what they were called) separate them by force to live with their primary residence in two different areas thus allowing the one entity to qualify for both feats? Its rather unwieldy, I know, but it could again be possible to play this interesting class.

[Socksy]

Which alignment requirement got dropped?

They could be a Maenad.
Oh, wait. DWARVEN defender. I'm an idiot.

A maenad who was raised by dwarves!

[CyberThread]

I shout my dwarven gods pride.....

[Zaq]

Many of the PrCs from Miniatures Handbook are legendarily bad. Tactical Soldier. That was a really, really hard Iron Chef, guys. Dragon Samurai is also astoundingly mediocre. I dunno if it's the WORST, but it's pretty darn bad.

As is typical, I do have to toss in a mention to some ToM goodies (or not-so-goodies). Bereft is a 5 level long PrC that you can't enter before level 11, but most of its abilities (including save DCs) are based on class level. Whoops. (The abilities would be mediocre if you could even get to them NORMALLY, but since you can't . . .) Brimstone Speaker is 6/10 divine progression that gives you a weak-ass breath weapon and a weak summon a couple times per day. And, y'know, requires investment in Truenaming. It doesn't even serve its own fluff.

I remember thinking about entering the Iron Chef for Initiate of Pistis Sophia, then reading the class and just thinking "nnnnnope."

[(Un)Inspired]

They could be a Maenad.
Oh, wait. DWARVEN defender. I'm an idiot.

A maenad who was raised by dwarves!

They call them Dwafnads

[TheGeckoKing]

You need to be able to select a regional feat from Rashemen, and also possess a regional feat not available to characters from Rashemen. Since a character can only have one region to select regional feats from in 3.5 (whereas in 3.0 you could use Knowledge (Local) to qualify for more than one), it is no longer possible to meet the requirements. It worked in 3.0 because Survivor was a Rashemen regional feat, but Survivor stopped being a Rashemen regional feat in 3.5.

There is a way around it if your DM approves Regional Backgrounds (Champions of Valor). If you choose the Circle Born background then that becomes your region for the sake of regional feats and Survivor is included in the list for your "region". Luckily, someone dropped the ball and forgot to give the Berserker Lodge feats the [Regional] tag, so you can take those too if you're Rashemi, because you still count as a native of your region for normal feats.

I will say that the fact you need to be raised by Druids on top of the specific region just to cast some nice gish spells is just obnoxious.

[RedMage125]

I'm glad someone mentioned Green Star Adept, it's the very first thing that came ot my mind when I saw this thread.

I second the note on whoever said that it sucks that Acolyte of the SKin is so bad, because the fluff for the PrC is so freaking metal.

I'd also like to point out that in a core-only game (which I've played in before), the dwarven defender isn't that horrible. Dragon Disciple still is, though.

Surprised no one's mentioned the PrCs in the BoVD. The Warrior of Darkness or whatever was pretty bad. And I forget between Diabolist and Demonologist, but I know one was god-awful.

[JaronK]

Some of the mentioned PrCs are workable under specific circumstances (Heirophant is solid in Gestalt).

Shining Blade of Heironeous, evidently, is only good for one thing: being mentioned in threads like this. Truly, it is the best at being the worst.

JaronK

[VoxRationis]

Green Star Adept is bad for a casting class, true, but you only need one spellcasting level to get it, so I think of its poor casting progression as more of a boost for what is really a martial PrC... The BAB and spell progression are both equal to a 1:1 wizard/whatever gish... Are you referring to its expensive requirements for leveling up? Because I got the impression that people didn't really care about mere GP on this forum. It does require that you work out the prestige class with the DM. Is that why you don't like it? Because it requires actually working with your DM to make it fit into the campaign rather than just showing up one day with a pile of abilities?
I do see that the d8 Hit die isn't good, but again, that's the average of the fighter and wizard's hit dice (actually above average if you want to be technical; spot-on for the average of wizard and barbarian or wizard and warblade). The natural armor bonus isn't great, but it's better than nothing, and IIRC, amulets of natural armor enhance natural armor bonuses, so they stack, right? You lose Dexterity, which isn't great, but only 3 points over 10 levels; barely enough to count for most things. Your caster level is actually better than a mage/fighter multiclass or even a lot of gish type builds, even though your spells/day aren't. Plus you get immortality, immunity to a whole mess of attack types, and the ability to heal yourself as an arcane caster without shenanigans as a capstone. The natural attack isn't worth anything, but no one said you had to use it, so it's really a free ability, and you get DR/adamantine with each level up; not a ton, but a reasonable amount and more than a barbarian does (although barbarians have /- type DR).
So what's that bad about it? It's not the best, and it requires that the campaign support it, but I've seen worse.

[Scarey Nerd]

Am I alone in thinking that Duelist is kind of OK as a 3 level dip for a Swashbuckler going for the three musketeers vibe?

[Vhaidara]

Yes, because Swashbuckler is designed to wear light armor and is better at being a duelist than the Duelist. So just keep going with Swashbuckler.

[(Un)Inspired]

Am I alone in thinking that Duelist is kind of OK as a 3 level dip for a Swashbuckler going for the three musketeers vibe?

You meant 3 levels of rogue right? 3 levels of rogue is a great dip for a swashbuckler followed by darring outlaw.

[Shining Wrath]

Some of the mentioned PrCs are workable under specific circumstances (Heirophant is solid in Gestalt).

Shining Blade of Heironeous, evidently, is only good for one thing: being mentioned in threads like this. Truly, it is the best at being the worst.

JaronK

Wait - as a capstone, at level 9, you gain the ability to give your weapon a +4 modifier for a few rounds? That's it?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Has anyone mentioned Blighter? I'm gonna mention Blighter. You know, the Ur Priest of Druids. Except, taking a steaming pile on everything good about Druids and making casting nearly impossible to do. Seriously, an acre of forest per level per day just to prep spells?! Where are you finding these vast expanses of forest that no one is stopping you from burning them down?

[Southern Cross]

Can we include prestige classes from Arcana Evolved? Because if we can, i would like to nominate the Dragon Kith PrC. It's a ten-level prestige class with the Dragon Magic ceremonial feat as a prerequisite, but only has four levels of caster progression.

[VoxRationis]

Has anyone mentioned Blighter? I'm gonna mention Blighter. You know, the Ur Priest of Druids. Except, taking a steaming pile on everything good about Druids and making casting nearly impossible to do. Seriously, an acre of forest per level per day just to prep spells?! Where are you finding these vast expanses of forest that no one is stopping you from burning them down?

It takes you a standard action in the morning to do that forest-blighting, hardly a terrible inconvenience, and for much of history, there's been a lot of forest with not a lot of people in it per unit area to stop you. People can be lost for weeks in small areas of forest, when people with helicopters and electronics are looking for them; if you're wanting to do this kind of crap, you can get away with it for a time.
In any case, I'm pretty sure the blighter was meant as a class for NPC villains.

[Divayth Fyr]

Wait - as a capstone, at level 9, you gain the ability to give your weapon a +4 modifier for a few rounds? That's it?

No, the capstone is getting that +1 caster level ;) But yeah, all the class does is to allow you to emulate some weapon properties a few times/day. It wouldn't be that interesting (at least with half caster progression) if those were permanent (as long as you hold your weapon, brilliant energy getting an option to turn it off), but as it is, the whole thing is just sad.

[nedz]

Am I alone in thinking that Duelist is kind of OK as a 3 level dip for a Swashbuckler going for the three musketeers vibe?

Yes, because Swashbuckler is designed to wear light armor and is better at being a duelist than the Duelist. So just keep going with Swashbuckler.

But Swashbuckler itself is only good as a 3 level dip

[Shining Wrath]

No, the capstone is getting that +1 caster level ;) But yeah, all the class does is to allow you to emulate some weapon properties a few times/day. It wouldn't be that interesting (at least with half caster progression) if those were permanent (as long as you hold your weapon, brilliant energy getting an option to turn it off), but as it is, the whole thing is just sad.

Somewhere lurking in the back of my head is a Featonomics thread about what price you would pay to gain the equivalent of a feat (or, in this case, class feature) on your equipment.

For example, Warning is a +1 enhancement and is slightly better than Improved Initiative, but II is always on but Warning only works if you are holding the weapon. So approximately speaking, II is equal to a +1 weapon enhancement or 6000 GP.

Alertness, OTOH, can be bought for about 600 GP IIRC (AFB).

Anyway, if you offered me the Shining Blade's ability on my weapon, I'd be willing to pay the equivalent of a +1 for it. Which is to say, 9 levels of a half spell progression class is worth maybe one decent feat.

That's VERY sad.

[(Un)Inspired]

But Swashbuckler itself is only good as a 3 level dip

Yes but duelist was designed as a 0 level dip.

[Seerow]

But Swashbuckler itself is only good as a 3 level dip

Daring Outlaw makes it almost worth it due to being a full BAB sneak attack class.

Definitely better than Duelist.

[Urpriest]

Green Star Adept is bad for a casting class, true, but you only need one spellcasting level to get it, so I think of its poor casting progression as more of a boost for what is really a martial PrC... The BAB and spell progression are both equal to a 1:1 wizard/whatever gish... Are you referring to its expensive requirements for leveling up? Because I got the impression that people didn't really care about mere GP on this forum. It does require that you work out the prestige class with the DM. Is that why you don't like it? Because it requires actually working with your DM to make it fit into the campaign rather than just showing up one day with a pile of abilities?
I do see that the d8 Hit die isn't good, but again, that's the average of the fighter and wizard's hit dice (actually above average if you want to be technical; spot-on for the average of wizard and barbarian or wizard and warblade). The natural armor bonus isn't great, but it's better than nothing, and IIRC, amulets of natural armor enhance natural armor bonuses, so they stack, right? You lose Dexterity, which isn't great, but only 3 points over 10 levels; barely enough to count for most things. Your caster level is actually better than a mage/fighter multiclass or even a lot of gish type builds, even though your spells/day aren't. Plus you get immortality, immunity to a whole mess of attack types, and the ability to heal yourself as an arcane caster without shenanigans as a capstone. The natural attack isn't worth anything, but no one said you had to use it, so it's really a free ability, and you get DR/adamantine with each level up; not a ton, but a reasonable amount and more than a barbarian does (although barbarians have /- type DR).
So what's that bad about it? It's not the best, and it requires that the campaign support it, but I've seen worse.

A 1:1 mix means you can't do either in a level-appropriate manner. Remember, this is a 3.5 class, Eldritch Knight was around from the very beginning.

[deuxhero]

Is Risen Martyr the ONLY class Iron Chef refused to do because it was so weak, or has there been another?

[VoxRationis]

A 1:1 mix means you can't do either in a level-appropriate manner. Remember, this is a 3.5 class, Eldritch Knight was around from the very beginning.

How many other Eldritch Knight-progression PrCs are there? Most of the ones I think of are reduced progression...

[Urpriest]

How many other Eldritch Knight-progression PrCs are there? Most of the ones I think of are reduced progression...

A few later in 3.5, like Abjurant Champion...classes designed to function in the same role as Eldritch Knight, like Knight Phantom....a fair number of 3/4 BAB and full casting ones, WotC tended to not think of them as inherently gishy...plenty of full BAB half-casting ones with d10 HD, like Spellsword, Dragonslayer, heck even Bladesinger...plus Swiftblade and Jade Pheonix Mage of course.

Of course, all this is irrelevant. Eldritch Knight has no dedicated fluff, and came out at the beginning of 3.5. That means that there was no reason not to take it if you were building a character with those goals. So that's the competition that Green Star Adept should have kept in mind, if it was actually supposed to be a Fighter/Wizard hybrid.